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Artwork Commissions Discussion


Paladox

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Feel free to discuss anything you want about commissions for artwork.

But first I'll get the ball rolling by saying I paid for my first commission (spritework), and honestly I am a little disappointed. It was cheap ($15, and I paid $16 just in case they did not want to be out of pocket for paypal's charges). Still, I feel kinda cheated so far. I hope they will improve their work, but so far I feel like they want to do "just enough". I told them I wasn't happy with some things about it, and they wanted to know specifically what all I didn't like about it.

I guess I just feel like I could do better myself, but the whole point was to hire someone who knew what they were doing so I would have more time to spend on making my game. It doesn't work out well if I have to tell them everything that is wrong with it (even the things that are obvious). I am tempted to back out and ask for a full refund, or maybe a partial ($11 at least). What is the proper etiquette here?
 

Perfeccia Ars

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

The proper etiquette would be to ask for a refund, at least 50%, after all he did deliver the work. Your dissapointment aside, he did the job so you can at least ask for half of it in return.

That said, this was your mistake too. Do not pay for something in advance, do not butter up artists with more money unless you're satisfied with the work. What I mean is, be smart negotiating with artists, wait and see what they do, then decide if the work is worth paying for because you don't know what is going to come out of it.

The best way to deal with them is to offer 50% in advance and 50% when the job is done, this is a common way to keep an eye on artists. If the artist does not meet your expectations on quality or his work isn't up to snuff he only gets paid 50% for the time he took to do the commission and whatever you got out of it that you can use. In the worst case scenario he can only take 50% of your money (assuming he's a dick and was planning to scam you from the start).

Still, I feel kinda cheated so far. I hope they will improve their work, but so far I feel like they want to do "just enough". I told them I wasn't happy with some things about it, and they wanted to know specifically what all I didn't like about it.
I'm not going to lie to you, most artists want to get stuff out on the first try, so they don't make sketchs or take the neccesary steps to handle a commission properly. It's why you see some artists works coming out very fast but they're all inside some small area of expertise and show a pattern, ending up with a "samey look" (Anime and manga newcomers suffer this a lot), once they go out of that area quality plummets and they're in a slump not knowing what to do to please the client. You're probably touching on an area this artist isn't used to work on and requires a more slow approach.

My suggestion is to wait and see, he's still working for you so be patient, if necessary give him a wall of text explaining what you want in detail, some references from other artists or pieces for what you want, it doesn't matter if it's annoying to him, you want your money's worth.
 
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Paladox

Paladox

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Thanks for the reply. :) Yeah I was too hasty in pre-paying. I should have just asked for a 3 frame animation as well, which would have been just $5 (or even $2.50, at half payment).

I have had them fix a few things, but their work still doesn't look right. Problem is, I'm not sure what's wrong with it. I just don't like it.

Here's the latest updates.





I couldn't think of more to say than this about the archer pose:
In the archer pose her legs seem a little stiff and lifeless. Is there any way you could fix that?
And this about the walking animations:
In her walking animations, I'm not sure. She doesn't have much shape to her.
Is there a way to give her butt and thighs a little more shape without making her look fat?
Also, here's the original sets that I gave them to work with:

Walking Animation:


Battle Animation


Ah! That gave me an idea. I referenced my old images and said:
I want her to look like that, but with your new movement animations.
She moves properly with your new animations, but her shape is gone.
Any suggestions on what else I could tell them?
 

Perfeccia Ars

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

The smaller the asset the less details you can add and the more lifeless they look, this is most likely why you don't like it, the sprite is just a humanoid sexless thing there.

The archer should either change completely or have the feet firmly on the ground. For me at least, she doesn't look stiff enough for someone handling a bow, look at how bow professionals position themselves before firing. Or at least how Cladun handled the Bow Elf enemy, that one doesn't look too bad.

My only suggestion would be to have him play with the hips of the girl, that is the only area he can work to emphasize female proportions, but due to the size of the sprite don't be surprised if that makes her look fat.
 
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Paladox

Paladox

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Him:
Didn't you see it was wonky?

Because you said it was wonky (looking back now, I don't know what was wonky, so I assumed the walk). If the walk isn't wonky, what is?
Me:
In my original, I meant that the animation (the way she moves) is wonky. Her legs look good BUT they also are not moving in proper walking motions.

That is what I meant by wonky.

Your changes ARE moving in proper walking motions, but now she has no shape (attraction, sex appeal).

Is it possible that you missed the post I made just before the last one?

"In the archer pose her legs seem a little stiff and lifeless. Is there any way you could fix that?

In her walking animations, I'm not sure. She doesn't have much shape to her.
Is there a way to give her butt and thighs a little more shape without making her look fat?"
Him:
Her legs look good, but dont't move correctly?


There's the latest result. I feel like he's misunderstood and gotten what I said backwards, as though I was saying my walking animations were correct, but that his proportions are what I wanted.

It seems like there may be something lost in translation. :confused:
 

Pervy

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Hmnn.. now, I often comission folks that like what I'm doing anyway, so take this with a grain of salt, I might get a discount or two.

That said, I really hope you comissioned more than that little spriteset you share there, cause going by its quality, that.. is not too impressive, feel free to check out my Demonhunter game, it also uses comissioned sprites.. for less money, and at a much larger size. At this tiny size theres really not much you can do either. I'd say it looks 'wonky' because theres simply not much to work with.

That said that said, I guess 10$ for a lesson you wont forget isn't too expensive, could have been 50$ for a hentai pic. :p

You can't really get sketches for sprites though, they are such cheap/tiny comissions anyway, the sketch would be almost more work.
 
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Paladox

Paladox

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Nope, just the walking set and the "holding bow" 3-frame animation.

I've been thinking about asking him to do something else instead, something more along what I think he could do. If he refuses then I'll just ask for a refund.

I'm thinking of asking for these, but that might be a bit much:

1: 32x64 sized Black Tree -- (I tried to make one, but the details were not showing up)
2: 64x64 wooden statue of a bird -- (a raven would work)
3: 32x3x fanblades in motion -- (just spinning fan blades, like a helicopter's propeller, no background, no animation needed)
4: 32x96 ornate wooden pillar -- (like a rounded, carved pillar you might see in a mansion)
(4x) 5: 32x32 small stone statues -- (owl, birds, gargoyles, other animals, etc.. almost anything would be okay)

Eh, I will go ahead. If he says it's too much or asks for more money then I will ask him what he thinks would be fair. :p
 
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Paladox

Paladox

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

He hasn't replied and his thread is now saying he's available for more work.

I think I will give him a couple more days before contacting through paypal.
 

Pervy

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

He hasn't replied and his thread is now saying he's available for more work.

I think I will give him a couple more days before contacting through paypal.
I'ma say it again, 10$ for a lesson is alright. :p

I'd pay at best half upfront, AFTER seeing a sketch, then full for the non watermarked version, with up to 10% (usually 5$, tops 10 for me) for a tip if I really like something(happens about every 1 in 10 comissions).
Mind you, for sprite work thats a bit tricky, those small things aren't as expensive usually.

If I may give you a suggestion.. don't go to professional pron sprite creators, don't go to hentai foundry to look for pron art, go to Deviant art or the rpg maker resource forums, find someone thats ok with erotica, sure, you may get some nope's, but if you want ok quality at a lower price, often you find that people that make pron ask for 25-50% more than normal artists that draw erotica just as well if you ask 'em. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, Deviant arts job offer forum is an easy way to get lots of artists looking for you, not vice versa, after you sorted out the complete junk and the chinese spambots.

Only if you want really high quality (70$ and upwards) Hentai art do artists that really specialize in erotica start to outweight stuff.
 

Perfeccia Ars

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

If I may give you a suggestion.. don't go to professional pron sprite creators
We have those? Who calls himself a profesional porn sprite creator? I only see rpgmaker and sonic sprite editors calling themselves spriters.

If I may give you a suggestion.. don't go to professional pron sprite creators, don't go to hentai foundry to look for pron art, go to Deviant art or the rpg maker resource forums, find someone thats ok with erotica, sure, you may get some nope's, but if you want ok quality at a lower price, often you find that people that make pron ask for 25-50% more than normal artists that draw erotica just as well if you ask 'em. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, Deviant arts job offer forum is an easy way to get lots of artists looking for you, not vice versa, after you sorted out the complete junk and the chinese spambots.
That's... not a great suggestion. I do agree that using the Deviant art job offer forum is a good way to get the artists attention, but why ignore the sites that are dedicated to adult art and porn if that's what you're looking for? If you want a cartoon you don't go to a realist painter or a 3D artist, you go to a cartoonist because he knows how to do his job, it's his area.

Just because a few people charge higher than others doesn't mean that every artist costs that much to hire for some work, freelance artists prices vary from person to person, and (sometimes) from work to work.
 
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Paladox

Paladox

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

I'd pay at best half upfront, AFTER seeing a sketch, then full for the non watermarked version, with up to 10% (usually 5$, tops 10 for me) for a tip if I really like something(happens about every 1 in 10 comissions).
Mind you, for sprite work thats a bit tricky, those small things aren't as expensive usually.
I had only asked him to do the bow animation at first, but I showed him the walking animation and even said that I was doubtful that it could be fixed with just a 3 frame animation. So he replies with:
So do you want me to fix the walking sprite and remake the bow attacking animation?
Which I feel lulled me into thinking he could actually fix it. His sample artwork isn't bad either, so I decided to go with it, and even trusted him with full payment. Here's his thread:

As you can see he's not a "professional pron sprite" creator. Just a basic spriter, and the only one to reply to my posts on that forum so far. The little guys with guns are actually quite good, but could just be the result of someone asking him to animate something they had already drawn themselves. :confused:

I'ma say it again, 10$ for a lesson is alright. :p
Well the full amount was $16. I would have been OK with losing $2.50 (or even $5), but it just rubs me the wrong way when someone flat out refuses to talk. Ideally I'd like to get back $11, but I would also be OK with $8.50 (half, plus the $1 tip).

I'll give him another day or so. I think Monday night would be good. I'll send him a message through paypal, asking again for the $11 refund. If he still refuses to communicate, then I'll have no recourse but to ask paypal for a full refund. I would rather ask for a partial, but it never works out that way.

If I may give you a suggestion.. don't go to professional pron sprite creators, don't go to hentai foundry to look for pron art, go to Deviant art or the rpg maker resource forums, find someone thats ok with erotica, sure, you may get some nope's, but if you want ok quality at a lower price, often you find that people that make pron ask for 25-50% more than normal artists that draw erotica just as well if you ask 'em. Plus, as cruel as it may sound, Deviant arts job offer forum is an easy way to get lots of artists looking for you, not vice versa, after you sorted out the complete junk and the chinese spambots.

Only if you want really high quality (70$ and upwards) Hentai art do artists that really specialize in erotica start to outweight stuff.
Well I've decided that actively looking for an artist is actually a "really bad idea", as it hasn't worked out very well for me so far. It would be best if I wait for an artist to approach me about doing art for the game. I've had a couple of really good artists (Arsministrator included) offer to do art for me, but it's going to take a while (as they're quite busy). I think it would be best to exercise patience and then pay these artists for their work when it's done (and hope that they'll be interested in doing more work down the road). :D
 

Pervy

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

We have those?

That's... not a great suggestion. I do agree that using the Deviant art job offer forum is a good way to get the artists attention, but why ignore the sites that are dedicated to adult art and porn if that's what you're looking for? If you want a cartoon you don't go to a realist painter or a 3D artist, you go to a cartoonist because he knows how to do his job, it's his area.

Just because a few people charge higher than others doesn't mean that every artist costs that much to hire for some work, freelance artists prices vary from person to person, and (sometimes) from work to work.
I'm not really sure where we disagree. You're saying what I'm saying. I'd go to a professional hentai artist if I wanted to spent serious money for serious hentai stuff, for example, looking at your sprites, thats something that I'm sure a non erotic pixel artist -could- do, but it'd take them a lot longer, and a lot of talking back and forth to get things just right.
I'd recommend a new gameauthor to try and go to Deviant arts job offer forum, clearly say what you want, what you will pay, and then decide amongst the interests what best fits your style.. its how I started out, haven't regretted it since, and given the artists I started out with and still use after 3 years well over a thousand dollar by now. ^^
Perhaps I should clarify I'm not thinking of pixel art primarly right now, more general art comissions of larger quantities, which is what I do the most. I'd not want a comission for 15$, prolly a bundle of stuff for 100.

It is however in my experience as someone that has commissioned about a dozen different folks, that artists that specialize in erotica often, not saying always, often overprice their work, or are full with comissions for months to come if they don't.
I think a main reason for that is simply that there is less customers, and artists visiting specialized hentai sites, while a more general, HUGE artforum like Deviant art may well have people that are perfectly fain and capable of doing erotica, just don't frequent the hentai-niche.

Which I feel lulled me into thinking he could actually fix it. His sample artwork isn't bad either, so I decided to go with it, and even trusted him with full payment. Here's his thread:
He does have case of stickman limbs, visible if you look closer at miscelaneous, the ramen house. Artists portfolio usually have their best stuff, a reason why I like comissioning on Deviant art or Hentai foundry, there you have a good look over all they've done, often including the not so great pics. Portfolios.. don't lie, but they can't necessarily tell you what the artist produces 'on average' ^^

Anywhoo, best of luck in finding artists.. My main artists is currently out on a wrist pain issue, which is.. actually pretty bad for artists, sadly.
 

Cypress_z

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

I basically turned commissioning artists into my business model, so I have a fair amount of experience in finding and hiring them. Moreover some of my closest friends are artists so I've heard about this from both sides.

First look for an artist that does stuff similar to what you want. It helps to find someone who does good work that interests you. If you find their normal work interesting you'll likely find the customized work they do for you to be great.

Second look for a solid track record with commissions. Publicly posted commissions, good feedback on stuff, etc. You want someone that shows a decent work ethic and has a professional attitude.

Third don't cheap out. If an artist asks for a certain amount of pay for what you want - pay it. Don't try to shave off dollars here or there. Art is expensive. You can get something done quickly, high quality, or cheaply. Pick two. You do not get all three. If you want it done fast and high quality it'll be expensive. If you want it fast and low quality it'll be cheap. If you want high quality and cheap IF you can even convince an artist to do that it'll stay on their back burner and take a long time.

Fourth don't be an ass. You're hiring someone for a job; not acting as their god. Have a very clear, solid vision of what you want and communicate it well. Far too many people that hire artists are dicks. Don't blame them for your own poor communication skills or poor vision. Artists are not psychic and cannot read your mind. Don't try to rip them off either. Make certain that you yourself are professional at all times.

Fifth if an artist does fail you it's fine to say so and give them a chance to fix things. If they are stubborn and unprofessional then pay them what you owe them and never hire them again. I have a very clear policy on this sort of thing. I have clear deadlines and definition for the commissions. If an artist makes an obvious mistake in the art I give them a chance to fix it. I also give them short, non-pushy reminder messages if the deadline is coming up. Note that I discuss deadlines and get their agreement BEFORE I hire them.

Basically pay well, be polite, be clear and direct and stay professional. If they aren't then go hire someone else in the future.
 

azurezero

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

I basically turned commissioning artists into my business model, so I have a fair amount of experience in finding and hiring them. Moreover some of my closest friends are artists so I've heard about this from both sides.

First look for an artist that does stuff similar to what you want. It helps to find someone who does good work that interests you. If you find their normal work interesting you'll likely find the customized work they do for you to be great.

Second look for a solid track record with commissions. Publicly posted commissions, good feedback on stuff, etc. You want someone that shows a decent work ethic and has a professional attitude.

Third don't cheap out. If an artist asks for a certain amount of pay for what you want - pay it. Don't try to shave off dollars here or there. Art is expensive. You can get something done quickly, high quality, or cheaply. Pick two. You do not get all three. If you want it done fast and high quality it'll be expensive. If you want it fast and low quality it'll be cheap. If you want high quality and cheap IF you can even convince an artist to do that it'll stay on their back burner and take a long time.

Fourth don't be an ass. You're hiring someone for a job; not acting as their god. Have a very clear, solid vision of what you want and communicate it well. Far too many people that hire artists are dicks. Don't blame them for your own poor communication skills or poor vision. Artists are not psychic and cannot read your mind. Don't try to rip them off either. Make certain that you yourself are professional at all times.

Fifth if an artist does fail you it's fine to say so and give them a chance to fix things. If they are stubborn and unprofessional then pay them what you owe them and never hire them again. I have a very clear policy on this sort of thing. I have clear deadlines and definition for the commissions. If an artist makes an obvious mistake in the art I give them a chance to fix it. I also give them short, non-pushy reminder messages if the deadline is coming up. Note that I discuss deadlines and get their agreement BEFORE I hire them.

Basically pay well, be polite, be clear and direct and stay professional. If they aren't then go hire someone else in the future.
I'm only good at getting stuff done quickly, but i fail in a lot of aspects
 

Cypress_z

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

I'm only good at getting stuff done quickly, but i fail in a lot of aspects
That's down to continued practice and development then. Goodness knows I'm not perfect either.
 

Pervy

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Third don't cheap out. If an artist asks for a certain amount of pay for what you want - pay it. Don't try to shave off dollars here or there. Art is expensive. You can get something done quickly, high quality, or cheaply. Pick two. You do not get all three. If you want it done fast and high quality it'll be expensive. If you want it fast and low quality it'll be cheap. If you want high quality and cheap IF you can even convince an artist to do that it'll stay on their back burner and take a long time.

Fourth don't be an ass. You're hiring someone for a job; not acting as their god. Have a very clear, solid vision of what you want and communicate it well. Far too many people that hire artists are dicks. Don't blame them for your own poor communication skills or poor vision. Artists are not psychic and cannot read your mind. Don't try to rip them off either. Make certain that you yourself are professional at all times.
That. I have to admit I was a little shocked when I watched my first artist-stream, seeing how much work goes into making stuff look good.

I wanna add that all artists are different. You might have one who wants a lot of creative freedom and does great if you only give them a rough direction, another will want references for poses and specific details you want.
Don't get disheartened if the first one you work with just doesn't really work for you.
 

Cypress_z

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

That. I have to admit I was a little shocked when I watched my first artist-stream, seeing how much work goes into making stuff look good.

I wanna add that all artists are different. You might have one who wants a lot of creative freedom and does great if you only give them a rough direction, another will want references for poses and specific details you want.
Don't get disheartened if the first one you work with just doesn't really work for you.
Absolutely. They all work differently. Personally I prefer artists that need little in the way of handholding because I'm always busy and it's hard for me to find four hours to watch every stream. Others, however, may really like that sense of control over the finished product.
 

Pervy

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Absolutely. They all work differently. Personally I prefer artists that need little in the way of handholding because I'm always busy and it's hard for me to find four hours to watch every stream. Others, however, may really like that sense of control over the finished product.
Agreed. My first artist made character pictures better than I could have described them out of a face and a spriteset and like a three sentence description of their personality.

All control I need is like.. sometimes I may ask for an edit of a small detail, but if you find an artist you get along with, often they do stuff better than you imagined it on your own. ^^
 

Cypress_z

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

Agreed. My first artist made character pictures better than I could have described them out of a face and a spriteset and like a three sentence description of their personality.

All control I need is like.. sometimes I may ask for an edit of a small detail, but if you find an artist you get along with, often they do stuff better than you imagined it on your own. ^^
Yeah that's absolutely true. While I present guidelines I have no interest in micromanaging the finished product of the art in my games. They're the artists; they're the one with the training and the developed sense of aesthetic, palette, etc. I outright let them design the characters in my games as long as they stick to the guidelines.

I particularly like one artist working for me that goes by Mindwipe/PlanetofJunk for character design work. He always presents a lot of options when designing a character. I give him guidelines and he does the work without hand holding and presents a lot of good options.

This is an example of some of the design work for two Overwhored characters, Audr and Rubati.
 

Pervy

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Re: Artwork Commissions Discussion

I don't wanna do shoutouts for my main artist, they have literally been drawing too much and are trying to take a break, though I have made some good experiences with Baranha, a bit slow to deliver, but has high quality very different alternate sketches and rather interesting lewd art, if you want a semi-realism look.:

Description for this was.. bascially something like a messed up corrupting tentacle mistress. ^^
 
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