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noman

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Another problem with strong lockdowns is whether people are willing to comply with the rules. East asian societies are in general better at following government instructions because of their cultures. The Japanese being one of the prime example. American culture on the other hand are well known for being more rebellious. The stricter the rules, the more likely their citizens will refuse to follow them. IMO the lash back we are seeing at the moment are the results of the lockdown being too harsh.
 

Takumaru

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Irrelevant and bordering a false equivocation.
It's applicable. More on this further down regarding suicide-rates...
Evidence for your claims here please.
I figured you would have double-checked it yourself since super_slicer went about double-checking the validity of my claims but if you insist...
...I have an actual death-certificate from an actual death of a hospice-patient who died of renal-failure (but he was on hospice for cancer). The death-certificate says nothing about cancer nor any of his other complications. I don't see why anybody would find it to be an issue if I recommended that there ought to be a «other known complications» section listed. For as far as the protocol goes, listing deaths as a Covid-death, as long as one HAS a Covid-diagnosis, even if the death was NOT from Covid itself, is essentially opening the flood-gates for on-going medical-mis-labeling such as if one tested positive for Herpes, but dies of something else, yet is counted as a Herpes death; it would be more honest if they at least included something like «Cause of Death : Herpes / Other Complications : Cancer, Dialysis-Patient, History of Heart-Attack» but as Death-Certificates are used & designed as they are now, and, according to what Birx said, one could even be listed as a Covid-death even if it was a car-crash that caused the death rather than the Covid-diagnosis itself.
Fallacy: Hearsay
My witnesses are credible. Furthermore, some of them also happen to be doctors, and there are also other groups of doctors and nurses whom I will be contacting fairly soon, too (due to unfinished business which is why I need to write to them about certain things as having pertains to some of their staff-members and how they could be getting themselves into potential law-suit for certain interactions for which I have plenty of statutes and rules to quote as I have been doing extensive research in matters of law).

Actually, I should at least mention that there was one guy who mentioned to me that his Daughter had (and was diagnosed with) Covid-19, but she recovered. I can probably find a few more who would mention that they've had direct family members, relatives, friends, etc., who have been diagnosed as having the condition, but, thus far, I haven't received any «news» from anybody that I am in direct or even indrect-contact with who've mentioned any «news» of anybody amongst us who «died from the Covid-19» flu.
Irrelevant to the matter at hand.
That would be difficult to quantify/qualify without having literal controlled social-experiment studies (I also read a comment from somewhere else where the commentator was claiming that Niel de Grass Tyson said that the Covid-19 narrative was a social-experiment). Considering how there have been other, what might be called «side-effects» to the issue, such as an apparent spike/jump in suicide-rates, the mass shutting down of businesses resulting in huge spikes of «now unemployed» people, etc., I cannot just automatically dismiss it as unrelated nor irrelevant, even if I am using a parallel or at least semi-parallel example of «issue-reaction» rather than same-category-case-scenario.
Fallacy: Appeal to Extremes. You've been doing that one a lot but this one is quite egregious.
Also, while I do not think these reporters to be entirely trustworthy, I believe you to be even less accountable, so where exactly would this line of reasoning get you in the end?
Fine, for this, I am just going to say : Fair Enough
Alas, how-ever, getting «official» information directly from hospitals/nurses can be a bit difficult, for there are apparently «non-disclosure» laws/rules that they seem to be required to follow, but if that were not the case, assuming that I didn't «scare them too shitless» over the last time I interacted with them given how I essentially «schooled» several of their staff-members in matters of «law» and even their own rules/guide-lines, and, because I still have «unfinished business» with them, I would expect the doctors & nurses whom I intend to contact soon to report to me of at least some cases of Covid-19 that have gone through their hospitals IF they were permitted to disclose such information. In any case, what-ever happened last time, many of them do have a great deal of respect for me and some of them even look up to me as an eager student would look up to a school-teacher from whom they like learning.

There have also been other videos, not-necessarily-so-easy-to-find, where there are nurses who talk about how Death-Certificates seem to get changed over-night into a «Covid» death rather than the original cause-of-death. Furthermore, there seems to be «evidence» in circulation that hospitals are actually paid money to list a death as a Covid-Death, even if something else was the cause-of-death (so, basically, someone can «suicide» and be counted as a Covid-19 death, even though it was not «Covid» that terminated their life but «suicide» being the cause, for so long as they've had any form of Covid-19 diagnosis). I also came across information-reporting where hospitals are also paid apparently extra money for putting patients on ventilators, even though there seem to be a number of doctors/scientists/researchers who say that ventilators are an absolutely inappropriate/unnecessary «treatment» for conditions, other than severely serious pneumonic-type conditions (sorry, I might not be recalling the details very accurately, but we should have enough «fact-checkers» on these forums who can double-check & confirm that these such things have indeed been reported).
 
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Pervy

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I figured you would have double-checked it yourself since super_slicer went about double-checking the validity of my claims but if you insist...

Oh don't be bloody rediculous.
First of all I'm more lazy than Slicer, in exchange I try to use less swearwords.
That twitter post disingenously misrepresents the very facts displayed in the video to a ludicrous degree and you should be ashamed for posting it ripped so blatantly misrepresentative. Just watch it.

..I have an actual death-certificate from an actual death of a hospice-patient who died of renal-failure (but he was on hospice for cancer).
Alright. Let's go to the root of this argument. This may be confusing, but: You can have one thing and die of another. For example, I can be in a fire, have sever burns, but die of CO poisoning. This is not a proof of some crazy renal doctor conspiracy to hide the dangers of cancer.. .this is just a case of you not understanding medical basics.

Similarly I can have covid AND diabetes II but it's the covid that kills me.

My witnesses are credible. Furthermore, some of them also happen to be doctors, and there are also other groups of doctors and nurses whom I will be contacting fairly soon
It can still be hearsay even if experts are sourced, unless they are experts on infectious diseases or otherwise qualified to speak on the instance. Fallacy. Also, please do not bother hard working medical staff with your nutjob theories, sorry but that's what they are, the doctors got more important things than you and I to do on duty.

Alas, how-ever, getting «official» information directly from hospitals/nurses can be a bit difficult, for there are apparently «non-disclosure» laws/rules that they seem to be required to follow
Yes, it is almost as if they were putting their patients interests above yours as if they had some sort of duty of care.

There have also been other videos, not-necessarily-so-easy-to-find, where there are nurses who talk about how Death-Certificates seem to get changed over-night into a «Covid» death rather than the original cause-of-death.
By all means, find me one or two, I'd love to see how deep this rabbit hole goes. I already got something to talk about tomorrow in the pharmacy thanks to you.

I also came across information-reporting where hospitals are also paid apparently extra money for putting patients on ventilators, even though there seem to be a number of doctors/scientists/researchers who say that ventilators are an absolutely inappropriate/unnecessary «treatment» for conditions, other than severely serious pneumonic-type conditions (sorry, I might not be recalling the details very accurately, but we should have enough «fact-checkers» on these forums who can double-check & confirm that these such things have indeed been reported).
This. Is actually a real issue. There is no reason to fact check this last one, it is unrelated to the covid thing but, yes, Doctors are human beings and fuck up, and one of those fuck ups involves extended ventilation, because that makes a lot of money for the hospital. That ones sadly true.

I do hope you realize that me agreeing to the last point puts things into perspective a bit. I am genuine with you. I call your loony theories loony and the truth the truth. Could there be fakings of the covid-19 death certificates? In theory, yes, but until I see extensive evidence of that one from credible sources rather than dark-web videos of those claiming to be medical staff.. I will remain skeptical of that one.
For starters, what'd be the motivation in over-reporting falsly? I'm talking direct motivation, not 'government control schemes' Most governments struggle to control the bloody amount of sugar in food, they're not these all powerful organizations bent on keeping you small or whatevers.
 

super_slicer

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I also have to ask :
Why does everyone seem to believe/trust the «news» when CNN reporters have been caught on numerous occasions lying to their audience, such as one particularly embarrassing incident where they had two reporters claiming to be reporting from two different countries, but their own audience recognised that both reporters were literally in the same parking lot ? (Not an isolated incident as there are numerous other examples of what can only really be described as «fraud» having broad-cast by them on numerous occasions)
Do you trust everything that politicians tell you ? And if so, then why ?
Would you consider ?
Did that video not have the clip of what the Texas senator said? I was pretty lazy with my search since the original video was buried under videos of reactions to it. Honestly I don't even watch tv or news (because I'm too cheap to pay for satellite t.v.) . I use my 5' flatscreen as a computer monitor to play video games so... does that count as turning off the t.v. ? It should right? Since I'm not using it like a t.v.
 

Hentaispider

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Yet Sweden had less cases and trouble than Belgium, which immediately shut down everything
Do you have any sources for that claim? says that Sweden has had more cases, as well as five times as many deaths. And unlike all other EU countries apart from Great Britain, they still have over 10 000 new cases from the past two weeks - despite having population of only 10 million.
 

XSI

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The source for that claim at this point is several months old, so no current claim. I stopped paying attention to the numbers when it turned out to not be the doomsday scenario we were told it would be
 

Takumaru

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First of all I'm more lazy than Slicer, in exchange I try to use less swearwords.
So, you claim to be lazy (or at least in comparison to s_s), yet, some-how, you're nitty-gritty enough to have done the hard work & effort in order to conduct full & thorough research enough to make this following claim...?
That twitter post disingenously misrepresents the very facts displayed in the video to a ludicrous degree and you should be ashamed for posting it ripped so blatantly misrepresentative. Just watch it.
Give me the link for exactly what you reference in regards to when you say : «Just watch it.» ?
Surely I should be able to revise my, ahem, «opinions» should you give me the full source of exactly what you want me to be watching. Keep in mind that, when you yourself ask for «evidence please», the same will probably asked of you when you claim that a clip was out-of-context. I'm pretty sure there are other clever enough forum-members on here who should be able to easily back up your claim that it's grossly out-of-context if they also view the «full video» so there should be no issues with asking you to post a link to the entire presentation, right ?

And on another maybe not-so-necessarily but possibly related point, have you not noticed, and does it not seem skewed to you, that the search-results, especially on a platform like YouTube (even Google, apparently, although YT is «owned» by Google), nearly always seem to show a bunch of results from «main-stream "news"» media channels ? Surely you have seen & experienced by now that, even if you put in an EXACT SEARCH TITLE for a particular video, and you KNOW that video exists, for some reason, the results are FULL of CBS, MSNBC, ABC, sometimes FOX, CNN, etc., and the original video might not show up for multiple pages or even at all, yet can still be loaded if you've saved its exact URL & still has its same title that would normally have been displayed on the search-results ? Now imagine if that was happening with songs & song-titles. Maybe that «Rick-Rolling Fad» may have had something to do with it but WHY prétel is it now so prevalent & common-place with anything that might even be remotely related to «news» channels/coverage ? When I go to a physical brick-and-mortar library, I get the specific title of the book or publication I'm looking for in the search results, allowing for «accurate» research. Imagine how much of a fiasco it would cause in acadème if the book/title-reference indexes at the libraries pointed to books with completely different titles than what one is actually looking for ? In any case, growing numbers of the world-population, even amongst «credible experts» are finding YT to be less and less reliable, and it's not like «main-stream news» sources have very high ratings anyway (their ratings have actually plummeted over the years & shoving their channel-videos to the top of nearly every search-result seems to be a disingenuous attempt at «salvaging» what is essentially now an «old dinosaur» and thus «obsolete» institution which is behaving in a similar manner to how the «banks» received «bank bailouts» back in 2008... talk about major welfare-queens sucking off everyone's tax-dollars!).
Alright. Let's go to the root of this argument. This may be confusing, but: You can have one thing and die of another. For example, I can be in a fire, have sever burns, but die of CO poisoning. This is not a proof of some crazy renal doctor conspiracy to hide the dangers of cancer.. .this is just a case of you not understanding medical basics.
First of all, I was not claiming there to be some sort of so-called «conspiracy» over what's happening, just pointing out that I have come across certain «claims» made by certain people (regardless of whether they're «real» or are just CGI-creations intended to «stir the pot» amongst the two crowds of «anti-conspirators» and «conspiracy nuts» as you have put it).

Similarly I can have covid AND diabetes II but it's the covid that kills me.
I'm sorry, but even as «lazy» as you claim to be, even you should know that you are essentially «stating the obvious» and, again, when did I claim there to be some sort of so-called conspiracy ? I called it irresponsible - not a «conspiracy» - BIG difference. If you died of CO2, then the Death-Certificate should most-certainly indicate that, but, like I mentioned earlier, more information added into the «details» would not be of any detriment (if anything it would help with statistical-research as to which types of complications increase the risks/likelihoods of death for [or from] any other conditions). Just because I see something as a «problem» doesn't automatically make it a «conspiracy» and I am NOT into «blaming» any so-called «leaders» for «problems» that I believe happen to be OUR or at least MY «responsibility» to handle. A number of people seem to view «Bill Gates» as some sort of «evil villain» trying to poison everybody & take control over the whole entire world but I need to make it VERY CLEAR that I do not view him that way even if I am pointing out the existence of people who do hold such beliefs.

I know things aren't always as they may seem or are even portrayed. Let's take the latest former U.S. «Bush» president, for example, and how a lot of those «conspiracy theorists» were claiming any various number of things, such as how they believed he was just in it for the Oil in Iraq, or that he was the head-honcho in somehow secretly orchestrating some false-flag attacks against our own soil in order to fabricate a reason to go to war, and of course there are other claims in existence about how the government knew about the incoming attacks but did nothing in order to use it as a catalyst-reason for deploying troops for what-ever reason (again, I merely point out that there are others who make these claims, but I am in NO way claiming that believe these «claims» to be the be-all end-all factual-truth about what happened). If anything, any kind of «conspiracy» that I, personally, may endorse, actually revolves more around having «reasonable suspicion» that a number of these «world-leaders» whom the «conspiracy nut» (as you put it) crowd seems to be wanting to raise pitch-forks against. I will begin by quoting some «evidence» that I have come across that can help «exonerate Bush» from being called some sort of «master-mind» behind any so-called «Iraq War» or even «9/11» so-called «conspiracy» theory and I hereby quote it as follows:

«Rice and Frank Miller, the senior NSC staffer for defense, went with the president to the Pentagon. Before the briefing, Miller reviewed the classified presentation for Bush and got a big surprise.

One slide about special operations in Afghanistan said: Thinking Outside the Box — Poisoning Food Supply. Miller was shocked and showed it to Rice. The United States doesn't know how to do this, Miller reminded her, and we're not allowed. It would effectively be a chemical or biological attack — clearly banned by treaties that the United States had signed, including the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention.

Rice took the slide to Rumsfeld. "This slide is not going to be shown to the president of the United States," she said.

Rumsfeld agreed. "You're right," he said.

Pentagon officials said later that their own internal review had caught the offending slide and that it never would have been shown to the president or to Rumsfeld."
Quoted from «Woodward, Bob, and Dan Balz. "Combating Terrorism: 'It Starts Today.'" ("10 Days in September," part 6). Washington Post, 1 Feb 2002. ・ This revelation was first unburied by Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive

Alas, it would seem that I didn't record down the ISBN of the publication from where I got this, but, in any case, I quoted from said publication.

Similarly, for all I know, Bill Gates and maybe even Jeffrey Epstein and other «major figure-heads» may be cases of people who were simply being «framed» in some way.
It can still be hearsay even if experts are sourced, unless they are experts on infectious diseases or otherwise qualified to speak on the instance. Fallacy. Also, please do not bother hard working medical staff with your nutjob theories, sorry but that's what they are, the doctors got more important things than you and I to do on duty.
First of all, the «matters of unfinished business» I have with them have NOTHING to do with your a priori beliefs about theories, but are entirely about the LAW.
And it is indeed «lazy» to engage in such «ad-hominem» especially with that much frequency.
Yes, it is almost as if they were putting their patients interests above yours as if they had some sort of duty of care.
Whether you want to «believe» it or not, I was there operating in the capacity of a Civil-Rights Investigator, and there were certain staff-members who behaved in manners that forced me to make reports to the head-administrator, and «like magic» the attitudes of these staff-members suddenly changed over-night to not only be more in conformity with their own rules, but the «level of care & attention to patient-interests» actually improved as a result of my reports. They WILL «pay attention» to what I write to them if for no other reason than the FACT that I can BACK UP my «claims» with LAW.
By all means, find me one or two, I'd love to see how deep this rabbit hole goes. I already got something to talk about tomorrow in the pharmacy thanks to you.
What rabbit-hole ? If anybody has been coming across as some sort of «conspiracy theorist» I would say it's been you planting all of your «conspiracy theories» about my posts.
This. Is actually a real issue. There is no reason to fact check this last one, it is unrelated to the covid thing but, yes, Doctors are human beings and fuck up, and one of those fuck ups involves extended ventilation, because that makes a lot of money for the hospital. That ones sadly true.

I do hope you realize that me agreeing to the last point puts things into perspective a bit. I am genuine with you. I call your loony theories loony and the truth the truth. Could there be fakings of the covid-19 death certificates? In theory, yes, but until I see extensive evidence of that one from credible sources rather than dark-web videos of those claiming to be medical staff.. I will remain skeptical of that one.
For starters, what'd be the motivation in over-reporting falsly? I'm talking direct motivation, not 'government control schemes' Most governments struggle to control the bloody amount of sugar in food, they're not these all powerful organizations bent on keeping you small or whatevers.
Like-wise, just as Doctors are human-beings and «fuck up» as you put it, the same can be said of Scientists, World-Leaders, and I suppose everyone else in the world. Skepticism of claims is fine, for, I know just as well as anybody else who's ever won their cases in the court-systems what constitutes «admissible evidence» versus «hearsay» evidence; what many people do not seem to know that a LOT of what «government-officials» use against you (and possibly also You and even YOU), are actually full of «hearsay» and thus «inadmissible» evidence; and I HAVE even «disqualified» doctors from being deemed as «credible expert testimony» because, believe it or not, Doctors are actually NOT «scientists» and, similarly, Doctors should not be testifying on matters of what they believe to be definitions of LAW, similarly to how Lawyers aren't medical-experts, and, therefore, Lawyers (whom are often joked about in the industry as essentially being synonymous with : Liars) making claims about one's psychological (or psychiatric) condition also end up being inadmissible as they are not medical-experts.

For purposes of «backing up my claim» (regarding the DISQUALIFICATION of a «Doctor» as a Witness) on THIS one I reference the following case..:
Precedent to disqualify expert witnesses occurred during a law-suit against Wyeth for its HRT-drug known as Prempro when an Arkansas District made such a ruling in September of 2010.

One other important piece of information that I can tell you for a FACT, and I will even «back up» the claims with «evidence» that I quote from LAW, are that there are indeed «incentives» and thus a higher risk of «corruption» when «financial-incentives» are involved; let's start with how the Singapore government has a stellar reputation for extremely low rates of corruption (consistently amongst the top five least corrupt governments in the entire world according to international corruption-indexes), according to the Singapore government itself on how it combats corruption, one of its foundations is to make sure that its officials are well-paid so that they have less reason or incentive to engage in «greedy/corrupt practices» of accepting bribes (although I suppose it could also be said that «unaccounted for financial gains» being severely punished could be a significant factor), and in fact even «tipping» or «accepting tips» is also illegal in Singapore, too. Now, regarding something that I have literally USED in LAW in order to send a Prosecutor and a whole entire Police-Department (the latter being due to other things that I had submitted on record) practically RUNNING and COWERING from their own «system» itself, was as follows...:

The following was published as a result of numerous Malicious-Prosecutions where Prosecutors (and Magistrates) had/have a «financial-incentive» to send alleged Defendants to Mental-Institutions and resulted in SDCL 27A-10-1 where-in it is worded: «Pursuing mental illness commitments is a duty of the state's attorney's office much as it is a duty of the state's attorney's office to prosecute criminals; these duties are inherent in the office of a state's attorney, and not subject to reimbursement. To allow reimbursement in such a situation would be to sanction double reimbursement, as the state,s attorney would receive a salary from the county for his or her services, and an additional reimbursement from mental illness proceedings; this double reimbursement was not intended by the Legislature when it passed the mental illness laws. Op. Atty. Gen. Opinion No. 90-19, 1990 WL 596790.»

The Prosecutor (who was the state's attorney at the time) and the police-department then apparently «shaped up» for a while and were suddenly «operating constitutionally» but, now that there is a different state's attorney in office, the «same shit» from before has gone back into repeat. I might have to re-submit new evidence now about the fraud that the current state-attorney is involved in if I so feel like it (but the process apparently has to be repeated any time the office-holder changes and I will have to see about any current versions of what might be equivalent to the Foreign Agent Registration Act). In any case the evidence being on-record that resulted in having him investigated for the prosecutorial-misconduct of trying to receive «double-compensation» by the pursuit of both mental-illness commitment and prosecution wasn't something he could defend himself against because of how much «irrefutable and thus also "admissible" evidence» I had submitted.

In any case, the previous state-attorney tries to stay CLEAR out of my way, but, unfortunately, that was actually also a mis-interpretation on his part, for my references to «warnings» (quoting from LAW) were not meant as «legal-threats» if he were in any way involved in possible ACTION that I might have been compelled to file into the court-systems, but simply «warnings» as how I would be shouting at a blind man walking off a cliff that if he continues in the direction that he's walking that he could plummet to his death. I was in NO way threatening to have anybody put to death, even though the very last six words from Title 18 U.S. Code § 241 and 18 U.S. Code § 242 are specifically worded : «or may be sentenced to death.»
 
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Pervy

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Scratch the doctors only, I too have better things to do matter of factly.
 

noman

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What's with all the « »? Reminds me of SCP articles.
 

Termite

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Goddammit, I have to say something even though I know it's either gonna be ignored or completely misconstrued or SOMETHING that will miss the point entirely.

Masks are NOT used to protect you from the virus. They are meant to help keep the virus from spreading FROM other people. We've all heard about the asymptomatic people running around, and if they go around randomly coughing or sneezing as all normal people due and you just so happen to be in the line of fire then you have been exposed. If that same person had been wearing a mask then the degree of that exposure is cut dramatically since the mask itself is holding back the cough/sneeze and keeping it from spreading all over the place.
 

Pervy

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Masks are NOT used to protect you from the virus. They are meant to help keep the virus from spreading FROM other people. We've all heard about the asymptomatic people running around, and if they go around randomly coughing or sneezing as all normal people due and you just so happen to be in the line of fire then you have been exposed.
The problem is not just randomly coughing or sneezing, people misunderstand that often. The problem is speaking itself. We expirate a variable amount of fluid droplets when speaking at all times and Covid is confirmed to aerosolize.. which means basically it stays in the air for ~ 10 min after you left. that's why its crucial you wear it insides.
It's enough if a young man has it in, stands for a minute in a shop, leaves, and grandma so and so comes in and inhales enough virus particles, or is immunosupressed enough to be critical..
 

XSI

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That is also a large reason why 'social distancing' doesn't work. It stays in the air around you for longer, and further than any reasonable distance we can ask while still keeping society functional
And if it's an indoor place or aircraft with recycled air, then no amount of distance or time will help you, it gets in there and goes all over

But masks do help if everyone wears them, so wear those if you're going someplace crowded with people. Make sure you get the right mask also, some don't stop it from getting out at all. Or you could just work from home like many do these days
 

super_slicer

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Come on guys, it's not like we NEED 7.8 billion of us on the planet. And hey, a virus is a lot better than war right? Leaves all the resources and infrastructure intact.
 

Takumaru

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I concur (for various reasons). Not to mention the fact that, whether related or not, more empty buildings are just sitting around not seeing any use whilst there are literally millions of homeless people these days, despite the fact that those empty buildings actually out-number the homeless population. Who even owns all of these buildings anyway...? Oh, right, mostly the banks (and I don't even want to get started on what I think of those whom I term as banksters, intentionally spelled to be synonymous with gangsters, so all of you readers and lurkers can breathe a sigh of relief as you are spared from me making a tirade about usury practices and how, according to that Federal Reserve Notes are only meant for use between banks and that no other purpose is authorized, etc).
Come on guys, it's not like we NEED 7.8 billion of us on the planet. And hey, a virus is a lot better than war right? Leaves all the resources and infrastructure intact.
 

noman

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Come on guys, it's not like we NEED 7.8 billion of us on the planet. And hey, a virus is a lot better than war right? Leaves all the resources and infrastructure intact.
You ain't wrong, but... you first XD
 

MrMe

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Implying anyone long term on here was planning on breeding :)
 

super_slicer

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You ain't wrong, but... you first XD
We can't go depriving the world of my splendor now. I also happen to live in an area where quarantine is... pretty much the same as normal life.
 
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