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In today's news...


Kusanagi

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Re: In today's news...

It's always happening, and while horrible, I know that should any ground forces move in to try and stop something, or the first actual coalition attack occurs, the Libyan government can easily start claiming we've killed civilians. Suddenly the coalition going in to protect civilians are the bad guys and we should pull out and leave Libya to their own devices.

That's what's been happening in Afghanistan, its what happened in Somalia.

"OMG, this government is oppressing us and killing us, help!"

"Alright, we'll see what we can do."

"OMFG OUR GOVERNMENT IS SAYING YOU'RE THE ONES GETTING US KILLED. FUCK OFF."

"..... uh, wat?"

Or something like that.
 

JohnDoe

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Re: In today's news...

People have been slaughtered in various places around the world for years. It's always happening, and while horrible, I know that should any ground forces move in to try and stop something, or the first actual coalition attack occurs, the Libyan government can easily start claiming we've killed civilians. Suddenly the coalition going in to protect civilians are the bad guys and we should pull out and leave Libya to their own devices.

That's what's been happening in Afghanistan, its what happened in Somalia.
So what?

You don't do the right thing to be called a hero, you do it bacause it's the right thing to do even if you're hated for it.

Too bad they only do it because gaddafi has threatened to strike europe and the US with terrorism, using the massacred civilians as an excuse...
 

Nunu

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Re: In today's news...

Ummm... johndoe, you remember vietnam right? not a direct paralell but plenty of stupid people get up in arms about "baby killers". Regardless as an actual veteran I'd more or less take sins word as gospel here.
 

Sinfulwolf

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Re: In today's news...

So what?

You don't do the right thing to be called a hero, you do it bacause it's the right thing to do even if you're hated for it.

Too bad they only do it because gaddafi has threatened to strike europe and the US with terrorism, using the massacred civilians as an excuse...
No, one doesn't do the right thing to be called a hero. But that's something totally different than doing the right thing and being called a 'baby-killer' for trying to save people. That's just a horrible feeling, knowing you're trying to do your best to help someone... but having people at home call you a villain and a monster.

So you've missed my point entirely.
 

Newbie

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Re: In today's news...

It is one thing to try and do right and let it go unannounced. That's all well and good.

It is another thing to try and do right and have it cast as villainy. Sin's got the right idea there; the most obvious example are soldiers returning home( from any war, really) and being met with insults, derision, accusations that aren't warranted.

If they go in and are falsely accused of killing civilians (Which is happening, I think; it seems we've started bombing 'strategic targets', and the accusations were near immediate) then it not only lowers troop morale, it makes their job over their harder because they'll be more likely to have civilian resistance, and it makes their return harder because some people will believe these reports no matter how falsely they can be proven and will act on this flawed information.
 

JohnDoe

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Re: In today's news...

No, one doesn't do the right thing to be called a hero. But that's something totally different than doing the right thing and being called a 'baby-killer' for trying to save people. That's just a horrible feeling, knowing you're trying to do your best to help someone... but having people at home call you a villain and a monster.

So you've missed my point entirely.
I understand your point and it wasn't my intention to deny it, but the way you said it looked like you were giving more importance to the feeling of the poor little soldiers being hated by their people, than the lives of those that need help, i understood what you wanted to say, but i didn't like the way you said it.

People will always find a reason to hate soldiers, even if they stand still and do nothing, some people are capable of hating you for protecting them, my point being that it doesn't matter how bad you're called or how much you're hated, if you can save someone, the simple fact they are still alive thanks to you is far more important than what a bunch of people, that take their peaceful lives and freedom of speech for granted, think.

You must not stop helping because you might be hated, sacrifice is a soldier's duty, it comes with the job, no matter how hard you work, even if you manage to get a medal and a few weeks of notoriety, before being forgotten again, there will always be people that hate you for what you are or represent, but for someone you can make the difference, so if you can focus on their un-knowing gratitude, rather than the hatred of ignorants, all the bad feelings will be washed away.

It's obviously a misunderstanding, but you're post simply gave too much importance to what fools obviously think and what politicians abuse toward their objectives, for my romantic self to just leave it be.

Still, even if it would be nice that people actually cared to help each other, that is rarely the motive for military action...

Btw, to stay on topic, gaddafi is usuing civilians as shields, mixing them with soldiers it seem, he said that he's ready to arm one milion civilians, men and women alike, to fight the invaders. If ne is to follow what the news say, he's ready to kill all of his followers with his own hands rather than to give up on his position.
 

Sinfulwolf

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Re: In today's news...

sacrifice is a soldier's duty
I don't give a fuck about anything else you've said, but you better have pulled some military service to be sitting there telling me what my duty was and acting like you know what its like to come back home into that kind of environment where doing good is treated as doing bad.

And yes I'm talking about the "poor little soldiers" because they're the ones who go over to deal with all this shit, actually going over to help with the situation while you sit there clucking your tongue talking about how things should happen without actually doing anything yourself.
 
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JohnDoe

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Re: In today's news...

I won't defend myself. I'm sorry for praising soldiers with stupid ideals, i obviously underestimated the egoistical nature of mankind, i'm sorry if what i said caused you any form of distress.
 

Sinfulwolf

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Re: In today's news...

I won't defend myself. I'm sorry for praising soldiers with stupid ideals, i obviously underestimated the egoistical nature of mankind, i'm sorry if what i said caused you any form of distress.
Wow... don't even say sorry cause I know your not. And you don't know my ideals, so don't pretend you do and make commentary on them.

And your one to talk about being egotistical. All you do here is strut your shit from atop a high horse.
 

Nunu

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Re: In today's news...

I'm ending this conversation now, nothing is to be gained by further discussion.
 

Rule 34

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Re: In today's news...

So, a polar bear, Knut, died in a German zoo after only 5 years. I don't know why this is news in times like these, but apparently the German media thinks it is, and he even got international attention, so...

They even dissected him. What the hell?
 

Nunu

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Re: In today's news...

They need to find out why it died so that they can make sure it doesn't happen again.
 

Rule 34

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Re: In today's news...

Well, apparently he suffered from a brain disease.
 

Newbie

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Re: In today's news...

Conspiracy theory time!

It is news precisely because it is not News, because it's another thing for you to know that is not world events. We haven't heard much of anything about the war in Afghanistan here in the US nearly since it started, but goddamn did we know everything about every celebrity scandal and death and whatnot. That's of national importance, at the very least. Locally we hear more about car accidents and wild dogs than we do events of importance. I can only imagine how far this spreads globally. Is it because the news outlets are run by entertainment companies and just want you watching, knowing that most people don't care about big events? Or is it because there's a group of people who don't want us to know these things, and aim to distract us?

I sound batshit crazy.
 

Sinfulwolf

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Re: In today's news...

Eh, maybe in the States, or your local area. I know Canada has had a lot of coverage on Afghanistan since we've gone there.
 

Incubus

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Re: In today's news...

We get a news story pretty much every time we lose a soldier.

And then there was the report a few months back when one of ours published a biography that included a story of when Dutch air support refused to intervene in a firefight after our guys were ambushed because someone decided it was too dangerous to approach and buggered off. Obviously, I've only heard the one sided story.
 

noman

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Re: In today's news...

The trouble with news coverage on the Afghan war is that soldiers are dying all the time. (It's a war after all.) And it just gets a little boring when reading that 50 times in a row. Yes, they deserve recognition for what they have done, but sometimes you just have to wonder "So what's new?"

Speaking of news, what are your folks take on the the situation in Libya. Morally, I think what UN did was correct - air bombardment on lightly armed rebels is far too much. I wouldn't want to see a complete massacre of the rebellious population.

On the other hand, I think UN overstepped its boundary in intervening with the war. I can't find the exact UN resolution (I will be very grateful if someone can provide a link to it), but I am guessing they are using civilian protection as a reason to enforce a no fly zone. However, how on earth do you establish who is a rebel and who is a civilian during a civil war? By whether they are holding a gun or not? With a rebellion force that poor, it won't be surprising if some of the rebels can't even afford a gun. Chapter 1 of article explicitly state that

"Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter; but this principle shall not prejudice the application of enforcement measures under Chapter Vll."
Chapter 7 is about restoration of international peace, and I fail to see how the war in Libya constitutes as a violation of international peace. (Refugees do not count. There have been precedences on that.)

I am all for a quick end to the situation in Libya, and might be even the toppling of the dictatorship regime, but Laws are written to restrict the power of governing bodies, and I fear that UN is setting up a dangerous precedence of intervention in domestic matters.
 

Ranger Princess

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Re: In today's news...

Chapter 7 is about restoration of international peace, and I fail to see how the war in Libya constitutes as a violation of international peace. (Refugees do not count. There have been precedences on that.)
UNSC Resolution 1973 is the most recent resolution concerning the situation in Libya. It can be found , and it also references Resolutions 1970 and .

Here is what I get out of the resolution's justification and how it meshes with you worries over the sovereignty issue...

Basically the UNSC is deciding that the actions by the forces in Libya might constitute crimes against humanity (arbitrary detention, enforced disappearances, torture, and execution), and they have referred the LAJ to the International Criminal Court.

In part, the UN is responding to the request from the Arab League to impose a no fly zone to ensure the protection of civilians targeted by LAJ and to ensure the safety of humanitarian assistance delivered by foreign sources. In the resolutions, the UN reaffirms its support of the sovereignty of Libya but stresses the ramifications of the situation within Libya for international peace and security.

In resolution 1738 from 2006, the UNSC says this about attacks against civilians and international security
Deliberate targeting of civilians and other protected persons, and the commission of systematic, flagrant and widespread violations of international humanitarian and human rights law in situations of armed conflict may constitute a threat to international peace and security, and reaffirms in this regard its readiness to consider such situations and, where necessary, to adopt appropriate steps.
So basically, the UN says LAJ is a threat to international peace and security because its attacks and threats to the civilian population is considered a crime against humanity, referred to ICC, and because the safety of bearers of humanitarian assistance and foreign journalists (who are also considered to be civilians under Res 1738) within Libya is threatened.
 
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Nunu

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Re: In today's news...

 

lurker

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Re: In today's news...

Should be noted the guy has a Encyclopedia Dramatica page now for his complaints.

Meanwhile, I aprove at what the admin wrote back. A single guy can't speak for an entire demographic just because he doesn't enjoy the content of something, or how something works.

Personally though, it is dis quote I find a bit lulz-worthy, and shows just about how idiotic he is IMO:

The romance options, Isabella and Merrill, were clearly designed for the straight male gamers in mind. Unfortunately, those choices are what one would call "exotic" choices. They appeal to a subset of male gamers and while its true you can't make a romance option everyone will love, with Isabella and Merrill it seems like they weren't even going for an option most males will like.
I've not played the game yet (hell, has yet to touch Sis's copy of Origins yet) but judging from promotional art, I'd hit dose two 'chicks' quite well. Preferably together but that's beside the point >,>; Exotics be hotz.
 
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