What's new

Dungeons and Dragons Version 4


aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Me and my IRL friends have a blog about version 4



that you should check out if you play version 4 or are considering playing version 4.
 

Hopeyouguess62

Has a penis diamiter of 4.5cm
RP Moderator
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
2,433
Reputation score
268
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Hmph... wouldn't let me access it, even with my gmail account. I do play 4th edition. I think it's fun, but at the same time it's very much taken on an MMORPG style. I miss the earlier, weirder editions (probably just for nostalgia reasons).
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Oh, I assumed it was public. I'll talk to /RL/ about that.
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

He's getting bitchy because his email is on the page. So it's copypasta time.

Saturday, November 1, 2008



Having played a cleric, on and off, for 4 years, I was dismayed at their loss of party status in version 4. The cleric used to be a necessary addition to your party - no matter how many invisible vampires you had, you needed a cleric. A cleric was a walking medkit. Now, this sounds to be a boring job, and at times it was. Few players like to be completely useless except for when someone was dying, and then suddenly you were the most important PC in the world. Actually, fair dues, clerics weren't useless in combat scenarios, but they were completely outmatched by the destructive power of barbarians or wizards, and until higher levels could only compensate by giving out pumps to the melee characters. Needless to say, this isn't a very rewarding job.

So, for some, the changes arising in version 4 concerning clerics are a bonus. No longer is your entire party dependent on one character at critical moments. You have much more flexibility in choosing classes, as one player is no longer strapped to the cleric chair. There is survivability unbound in the form of healing surges. But for me, the cleric had a clear role defined, and to do a good job in that role gave you the satisfaction that you had been a vital member of the team, without which nothing could have been accomplished. But in version 4 the role of cleric is distributed among everyone in the form of healing surges. This means that there is no one charged with being the savior in times of need, and so the only one the party can blame for a PC dying is the PC himself. Players can't do as many stupid things and get away with it (e.g. jumping off an 100-foot tower just to test his pound-saver Ring of Feather Falling, leaving him on critical health). This distribution of blame I can only see as a bad thing.

Of course, the need for clerics is also greatly diminished in v4, as everyone has tons of HP (OK, the enemies have bigger attacks) but the point is everyone can see when they are going to go under, and take measures appropriately. Levels 1 - 3 of a D&D adventure in v3.5 were spiced up with the occasional ogre opportunity attack scoring critical and your head being plastered all over the nearest wall. This gave a sense of danger to every fight, as a critical really could mess you up. In those scenarios, you were happy to be on negative HP, as often a tiny bit more damage could have forced you to rewrite a character. And so the cleric was even more important, to get you back on your feet ASAP.

But what I miss most of v3.5 (concerning clerics) was that the cleric was also a central point of the party outside of combat. Because he was potentially a very good friend to have, no one risked getting on his bad side. This bonded the group together, and also meant that it was natural to thrust the reins of leadership onto him, if no one else wanted them. Infighting and party hostility was kept to a minimum simply because the cleric could choose not to bring people back from negative HP if they were being a jerk. This power has been greatly reduced in v4, even though the cleric is now officially a leader class. The "leader" of a group should not be decided on who picked a specific class, and I find that in our party, the leader does take all the stick in combat, ie giving boosts but not being damage-efficient, but these pumps aren't necessary, and so he doesn't benefit from added political weight outside of combat.

Overall, the cleric's role has been redistributed around the other classes, and those classes that count as leaders in version 4 don't have anywhere near the same leadership inside the party as the cleric did. The responsibility and necessity that came with being the party cleric meant that if he did a good job, he indirectly had a bigger say on party decisions, whereas in version 4 the characters that claim to be leaders don't have the same influence over the party that the cleric did.
Posted by /RL/ at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://thepitifulones.blogspot.com/2008/11/clerics.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2008-11-01T08:00:00-07:00">8:00 AM</abbr>
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Sunday, November 2, 2008



I played a version 4 campaign for the first time not long after it came out, and I played as a Warforged Ranger. I would love to say "it was an interesting experience", because I say that about nearly everything I review, but truth be told, it wasn't. There is nothing interesting about d&d version 4.

I'm not saying that it isn't fun - I thoroughly enjoyed playing it, but it was missing a key element for me, and that was the interest. Creating a character was like choosing a starting pokemon - you had a few choices as for what sort of guy to be, but as for customising that guy, you couldn't do much at all. A ranger is a striker, and so his job his to hit things until they die. The Player's Handbook basically told me what numbers to put in what boxes and what feats were agreeable and which weren't (except - it doesn't make a bit of difference guys, the feats are inert).

So after you have "built" your character (I accidentally a whole two longswords guys is this bad), your adventure is just like any previous version of Dungeons and Dragons. I actually enjoyed the combat system - you get one standard action, one move action and one minor action each turn. A ranger can use his minor action to use hunter's quarry on the enemy closest to him, and this means he gets extra damage against this target. In short, this ability meant that you got an extra d6 damage each round on the guy you were attacking, because you generally attack the guy closest to you.

Do you remember the feat "whirlwind attack" from V3.5? The prerequisites were Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4. In Version 4, rangers get this ability as a once-per-combat ability at level 1. Ridiculous. Especially since minions have been introduced (hordes of over 9000 enemies with 1 HP each).

Another thing rangers used to be useful for is skill checks - survival, gathering information, anything to do with nature, physical things such as climbing and swimming. Now all skill checks have been shrunk into about 12 skills which cover everything you will ever need to do. And lots of the time, everyone will get to make the checks, so it's not just up to you to help out the entire party, it's more about the average.

So, all in all, rangers walk into battles, hack things up, and get healed at long range by warlords and clerics making them use healing surges. The tactics required to use a ranger are quite limited, and their use outside of battle has been nerfed. While it is fun to be the main killing machine, it's more fun to actually have to think than to just see an enemy and start dealing with it.

So yes, I prsonally prefer playing version 3.5 - there's more things to do both before you start playing and during. Plus, it's actually interesting. Version 4, to me, feels like it's been dumbed down, and is targeted at less intellectual people. Everything is too... balanced. There, I said it, you happy now?
Posted by aika at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://thepitifulones.blogspot.com/2008/11/my-experiences-as-ranger.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2008-11-02T10:16:00-08:00">10:16 AM</abbr>
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Wednesday, November 5, 2008



So, like the rest of the "Kool Kloister Krew", I played DND 4th Ed with the other members of the "Kool Kloister Krew" (henceforth KKK... there, I said it, you happy now?) In 3.5, it was always quite cool to play as a Cleric, mostly because they were the best class in the game. Sometimes, however, someone else was the Cleric, and you needed a suitable... replacement. This was the Wizards "role" in the party long before the term Controller was ever conceived anywhere outside of Nintendo HQ.
The short story - not any more.
The long story - you should be so lucky punk!
The medium-short story - Wizards used to be able to specialise in one of eight schools of magic, including, but not limited to Necromancy (Black magic), Evocation (Red magic), Abjuration (White magic), Conjuration (Green magic) and Divination (Blue magic). I know, all these colours - I guess thats Wizards for you! Unfortunately, however, times have changed. They are now limited to a single school instead; The school of Cockjockeying. Oh sure, they get a few more spells per day, but the Cockjockey spell list is fairly limited. When you have a technique that does the exact same thing as a sword stroke 'of the mind' that you can use instead of swinging a sword, your extra spells per day don't do anything particularly special. And as the world's greatest (level1) purveyor of arcane might, I wanna maybe feel a bit spesh, even if thats limited to making my bro a bit taller every 24 hours.
On the bright side, at least Summon Mount is no longer needed on the spell list, what with riding cocks into battle, out of battle, and well, basically everywhere that isn't a vagina (they got rid of Charm Person) now being a Wizard class feature. True story.

Posted by JUTLORD at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://thepitifulones.blogspot.com/2008/11/my-experiences-as-cockjockey.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2008-11-05T07:23:00-08:00">7:23 AM</abbr>
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Thursday, November 6, 2008



Something that I intended to use this blog for was to put character sheets on, so that if I forget my laptop I can still play, if I'm not at a session someone can take over my character, and partly to show party progression and makeup. So, here is my Eladrin Swordmage.

Level 2 Eladrin Swordmage
Gender: M Height: 5'6" Weight 135 lbs Alignment: U Deity: Corellon
Initiative: +3 AC 18 (11+4+3) Speed 6 squares
HP: 22 Bloodied: 11 Healing Surge Value: 5 Surges/Day: 9
EXP:1125
Ability Scores:
STR 16 (+3)
CON 12 (+1)
DEX 14 (+2)
INT 18 (+4)
WIS 10 (+0)
CHA 8 (-1)

Fort: 14
Ref: 15 (+5 racial against charm)
Will: 14

Race Features: Low-light vision, Fey Step, Trance, Fey Origin, Eladrin Education
Class Features: Swordbond, Aegis of Assault, Swordmage

Skills:
Arcana: 12
Athletics: 8
History: 12
Insight: 6
Stealth: 8

Feats:
Eladrin Soldier (+2 to damage with longswords and spears)
Moon Elf Resilience (When using fey step and bloodied, may spend a free healing surge)

Languages: Common, Eladrin

Basic Attack: (+1) Longsword +8 to hit, d8 + 6 damage

Combat Powers:
Fey Step (encounter), (move): Teleport 5 squares as a move action.
Aegis of Assault (at-will), (minor): Mark, one creature, close burst 2. If target attacks someone other than you, they take -2 to attack and you can teleport from anywhere within 10 squares (as an immediate action) and make a basic melee attack against it.
Dimensional Warp (encounter), (minor): Close burst 3 - you and one ally in burst, or 2 allies in burst, teleport into each other's squares.
Fey Step (encounter), (move): Teleport 5 squares as a move action.
Greenflame Blade (at-will), (standard): Int vs. AC, melee - 1[W] + Int mod fire damage and deal Str mod damage to all enemies adjacent to you.
Lightning Lure (at-will), (standard): Int vs. Fort, ranged 3 - 1d6 + Int mod lightning damage, and pull target to nearest unoccupied space adjacent to you.
Flame Cyclone (encounter), (standard): Int vs Reflex, close blast 3(all in blast) - 1d8+ Int mod + Strength mod fire damage.
Burning Blade (daily), (standard): Int vs AC, melee - 2[W] + Int mod fire damage. Until end of encounter, melee attacks deal extra damage = to Str mod.


Equipment: Standard Adventurer's Kit (in bag of holding), Leather Armour, +1 Longsword
Money: 75gp
Party Items: Bag of Holding, 700gp (120x3 from gems, 170 for goblin encounter, 170 for kobold encounter, a tent (in the bag) (that I'm holding atm).
Posted by /RL/ at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://thepitifulones.blogspot.com/2008/11/rl-eladrin-swordmage-character.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2008-11-06T08:00:00-08:00">8:00 AM</abbr>
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Saturday, November 8, 2008



Well, everyone there realised that the campaign session was, at times, fun, but we didn't get much done. The session started with us having 2 PC guests, Pav and Chris, who needed to drum up characters as well as Hod. This took the best part of an hour after we all arrived, and we lost another half an hour as a contingent brought vital supplies of food and drink from the sacred Sainsbury's. It started with us findind ourself in the dock, where we had been sent to gather more information on dealing with the kobold pirates. A fair amount of time was spent at this stage talking about the hostage (last session, Garesu and D. On had mutilated one of the kobold pirates they fought so that it couldn't run away), and why even after torture it wouldn't tell us anything about the pirates, as it didn't know anything. After this was sorted out, we landed, and had to wait about 2 and a half hours in the port before our appointment time. To kill some time, Garesu and D. On proceeded to try (and fail) to kill the owner of the local brothel and charade as him, becoming the head pimp, using Garesu's doppelganger ability. That story arc was not-so-quickly dismissed as being totally against the adventuring spirit.

So, while this was happening the rest of us went to be friendly with the local army, who we found out were no longer part of a larger army. The area used to be part of a larger kingdom, but this disintegrated leaving these small towns as beacons of light against the darkness. The town guard continued to protect and serve, either because of a code of honour or becuase they couldn't do much else. They earn their wages protecting merchant convoys and small mercenary-style jobs. Thus meeting the leader of the merchants, who we also visited, we were made an offer of 450gp for getting rid of the pirates. A decent Diplomacy check made by Raightning brought this up to 550gp, which was good enough to accept, seeing as we were going to do it anyway.

So, the main part of the campaign came around, with a skill challenge for finding a boat and crew to take us. The first part of the challenge was to gather information about who was to be trusted, etc., and most of us made our checks easily (the average bonus to roll was 12 or so) so the hard part was trying to justify using an in-depth knowledge of history to gather information on good sailors, and rentable boats. The merchant's guild had agreed to subsidize the boat expenses, so it was not a drain on our resources. The second part of the check (and third) was actually finding a boat and crew and wheedling them into taking us.

All the checks were made using social-based skills, such as Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, etc. as long as you could justify it roughly, and how this skill would apply to the situation. So when Pav tried to use Acrobatics to do a dance-off with one of the sailors in exchange for favourable terms if he won, I was dismayed to see this jumped on by Garesu and D. On, resulting in many fits and giggles for the two. After the previous schenanigens which had wasted so much campaign time, the DM decided to call it a day with them, declaring that they would be awarded no XP from the adventure. After the rest of us had finished making our rolls, and passing, the DM awarded 170XP and decided to call it a day, even though we had one and a half hours of session time left.

I think that the session explains itself, actually - the session ended with us playing Brawl for the rest of the time, which was at least enjoyable, but there was a lot of friction between certain players and the DM, which didn't benefit anybody. Nice troll.
Posted by /RL/ at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://thepitifulones.blogspot.com/2008/11/campaign-notes.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2008-11-08T08:00:00-08:00">8:00 AM</abbr>
 

dogstile

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
158
Reputation score
1
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

i actually got to play version 4 before it came out (working in shops DOES have its benifits) and we wern't impressed by it, mainly because, yes, the cleric thing annoyed me, i enjoyed playing as a cleric, its a fun class, but as it say's, i lost my political power as soon as v4 hit

needless to say, i prefer version 3.5, played it for longer, and i like it being able to break up fights with "fine, argue all you want, just don't come crying to me when i leave you both bleeding on the ground while i run for the nearest town"
 

pbird

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
192
Reputation score
3
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

I played 4th edition. For about two sessions. There were some good ideas there, and if I had to introduce someone to RPGs for the first time I might use it. However, for an experienced player...everything was too basic, all the classes too samey for it to really be fun.
 

dogstile

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
158
Reputation score
1
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

you just summed that "samey" thing about 10x shorter then i could have, kudos to you
 

dmronny

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
5,219
Reputation score
94
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

That's actually the first thing I've read about 4 edition without it looking like a flame, or a OMG I love it it's so much easier to play feel. That being said I really don't want to even bother looking at the books now except maybe to cannibalize ideas for 3.5. Basically it really does sound like they turned it into a World of Warcraft game.
 

Megamickel

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
244
Reputation score
12
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

I don't like 4, I don't want to play 4, I'll stick to 3.5

Hell, I prefer 2.0, but no one else plays that anymore.
 

Copper

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
8,967
Reputation score
397
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

*hisses and makes a warding gesture* They bastardized the Realms, they bastardized tielfings, they took *away* assimar. Now, granted, I thought much of 3.0 (and 3.5) was silly when it first came out, but it was at least *intriguing.* Nothing about 4th edition makes me even want to *look* at the books, especially with everything I've heard and read. (Okay, I'll look at the art. I like the pretty pictures.) I'll stick to my 2.0 (Yes, Mega, I still play that) and my Pathfinder (3.75, essentially) and my original argument of "It took 20 years to go from 2nd to 3rd edition and less than five to go from 3.5 to 4. There's something very wrong with that fact."

Yes, I can see making it more accessible to the "video game generation" but if I want to play D&D the video game, they *make* video games of that. Or I'll go play Everquest or GW or something.[/rant]
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

Thanks for all the replies. I must admit I've never played version 2, I was introduced to D&D with v3.5, so that's all I have to compare version 4 to.

Having said that, I played v3.5 for many many years, both adventuring and DM'ing, so I do have a lot of experience.
 

Archfiend

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
35
Reputation score
3
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

I for one won't touch 4th Ed. simply because of how the Forgotten Realms was raped. And when I use the term "raped" I don't mean in the hot tentacle sex on japanese school-girls kind of way... I mean it in the real world, scary, traumatizing, "You gonna get raeped" kind of way.

For me, the only game I'll ever recognize as D&D 4E is Hackmaster.

But if anyone would care to engage in some 3.5 style play by post games, I would happily participate.
 
OP
aika

aika

El Presidente
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,042
Reputation score
182
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

I started one, but people didn't get into it. Maybe because I had a 70ft. long near pitch black room so they decided to edge along 5ft. at a time.
 

dogstile

Lurker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
158
Reputation score
1
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

i'd play, although i am still in the "learning phase" of D&D, i've mainly watched games, thats about it
 

Chibichibi

Big Sis
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
4,853
Reputation score
268
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

The only thing I'll use 4 for is to get ideas for critters from the monster manual >.>
 

Unknown Squid

Aurani's Wife
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
3,256
Reputation score
314
Re: Dungeons and Dragons Version 4

I've played 3.5, and 4. While the 4E games I've had were fun, I think I'd go with the same thoughts mentioned here. I liked how 4E moved along quickly, and there are certain aspects that do work. But as said, I does seem dumbed down and somehow limited.

The result being in my regular group, that we are going for a new long term campain built in 3.5, but when people can't make the game, we're running a "mini series" in 4th. Somehow our 4E game keeps descending into inter party carnage every two sessions. Obviously the players fault more than the system really, and maybe the lack of planing, but it is amusing. My cowardly yet lethal ranger is the only one that's survived from the initial party, despite the other 4 players having gone through 9 characters between them in just a few sessions. They started it.

It's a bit like an adventure deathmatch actually, save the princess or stab your buddy in the back before they do first.
 
Top