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ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS


blackraven1425

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Thing is, despite what megaupload personnel did in their private time, megaupload as a corporation broke no laws.
In leaving copyrighted documents on their file sharing services they broke no laws as the owners of said files (the people that legitimately owned them) should still be able to access the products they own.
That is patently wrong. The first part, regarding hashed files, is debatable, and will be argued to death in court. The second part, where they willfully committed infringement via company emails, makes the company liable. If you don't realize this now, know that there is no such thing as personal email in a company. It's all that company's email, and by the very nature of having large numbers of the top executives sharing files and helping each other find them, they subjected themselves to this information becoming public under the corporation's name. These are internal emails to MU, and reflect directly on the company when all of the officers are involved in helping each other find episodes of copyrighted material. You literally cannot separate the actions of the officers via company email that "are" and "are not" the responsibility of MU.

As for the internal emails, those are private and not corporate, if an employee of a bike shop steal a bike then should the entire company be shut down because it was indirectly involved in the theft of the property is deals in? ridiculous, especially since megaupload got shut down entirely without so much as a conviction. Not to mention private emails under these circumstances should be considered illegal evidence as beyond that illegal evidence they don't seem to have any grounds for procuring private documentation, you can't search someone's house without a warrant and then use what you find to get a warrant after all.
You don't seem to understand this. If my email address is [email protected], when the feds come in to search due to allegations of privacy, there's no such thing as a private email at that address. It belongs to MegaUpload. Anything done at that address is fair game, as evidence of copyright infringement can be found in emails, and it is a valid place to search for evidence during investigations of nearly any systemic problems within a company, given the tendency of people to fuck up royally and use company email to communicate that they're doing things illegally.

On top of that, you're saying that it's like one person in a bike shop stealing bikes. That's a bad analogy. The real analogy is that you have 20 employees of the bike shop, all of whom talk about how they steal bikes on the regular, and asking others for help in stealing bikes, and talking bout how half the bikes they buy from customers are stolen, and putting it all down in writing. That's definitely grounds for arresting everyone at the business and shutting it down.

We've seen U.S officials invade other countries, invade other countries to assassinate unknown individuals, dump their remains in the ocean and get away with it simply by claiming it was a wanted terrorist and now we have them shutting down international business and arresting its employee's, no court order or normal arrest, they actually went with a full scale police force, helicopters included for the executives of an internet company with no criminal or violent past and all this excessive force without any kind of conviction or solid evidence.
They need to make a show of it, because it's being used as a play in this debate - they're spinning these people as pirates, and attaching SOPA/PIPA detractors to them. If you have a problem with what the US is doing, realize that Hong Kong and New Zealand cooperated, among a few other nations. Blame them; the US actually performed no enforcement actions itself.

Just like you rallied against SOPA, it's past time you rallied against your own government breaking hundreds of international laws casually (heck, I barely mentioned the tip of the iceberg) and going directly against your own constitution without any sort of valid excuse.
They didn't break any laws in this case. As an aside, there is no such thing as international law, either.
 

censuur

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

They didn't break any laws in this case. As an aside, there is no such thing as international law, either.
Funny how you mention "in this case". But that aside I understand that international law was the wrong term here, I wasn't trying to have a legal debate so I used common terms, not legal terms so I apologise for the confusion. Ultimately, their demands for the arrest and seizure of property goes against local legislation (at least here in Holland, where the servers were seized) Maybe I'm oversimplifying the analogy here, but in effect this is like shutting down a garage and seizing all the cars there (which were owned by people with no affiliation with the company and not involved in any criminal circumstance) as the servers seized contained huge amounts of private files, property and information.

As for the distinction between corporate and private emails, I made the mistake of assuming sensibility on that one. Should be interesting, when I'm about to get fired all I need to do is talk about crimes using corporate email and the company gets shut down while the court figures things out? (yes I know that's exaggerating but the principle stands)

Let me make one thing clear, I am in no way against megaupload being held accountable for crimes they committed, what bothers me is the methods employed to make that happen, which I would consider downright criminal.

I can already see how this might end up, the case gets taken into court, the media blows every suspicion and charge out of proportion, everyone will agree that they should be convicted but then... current law can't properly convict them! We need something like SOPA or PIPA to stop something like this! Manipulation at it's finest.

If you have a problem with what the US is doing, realise that Hong Kong and New Zealand co-operated, among a few other nations. Blame them; the US actually performed no enforcement actions itself.
I do have a problem with what the US is doing, and I blame them for what they do, I also blame anyone that participates, just like when someone commits a crime with accomplices.

In the end though, who did what why when how doesn't matter, what matters is that what happened here isn't something that should be allowed to happen, the situation and the circumstances around it are ridiculous, a company shouldn't be able to be shut down completely without any sort of trial, people's private information and property shouldn't be seized the way they have been (for example, the servers could have been frozen rather than shut down)

I could go on but I think I made my point, what happened here shouldn't be possible, it's not that megaupload and its executives shouldn't be criminally charged but the way that it's been done is just faux pas.
 

blackraven1425

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Funny how you mention "in this case". But that aside I understand that international law was the wrong term here, I wasn't trying to have a legal debate so I used common terms, not legal terms so I apologise for the confusion. Ultimately, their demands for the arrest and seizure of property goes against local legislation (at least here in Holland, where the servers were seized) Maybe I'm oversimplifying the analogy here, but in effect this is like shutting down a garage and seizing all the cars there (which were owned by people with no affiliation with the company and not involved in any criminal circumstance) as the servers seized contained huge amounts of private files, property and information.
If you order a pizza from a pizzaria, they charge your credit card, and before they deliver, they're shutdown for holding poker games in the back room illegally, it's the same situation. If Holland, as you say, has no legislation against what MU was doing, they should have a spine and say no to the request. Most likely, there's some gap between the law and applicable treaties as written and your understanding of it, such that this is a legal action in Holland.

As for the distinction between corporate and private emails, I made the mistake of assuming sensibility on that one. Should be interesting, when I'm about to get fired all I need to do is talk about crimes using corporate email and the company gets shut down while the court figures things out? (yes I know that's exaggerating but the principle stands)
No. That would only apply if there were emails from every stakeholder in the company, showing explicit disregard for the law. You sending out those emails may be something that they would find upon an investigation - then you'd be charged with perjury, as there wouldn't be any evidence that anyone else was involved. They wouldn't shut down the company, but in this case, notice that there's an indictment that mentions an unnamed co-conspirator, which means someone inside the company showed these emails to the authorities. They may have even had access to the overall email servers, and could have provided every email ever written there.

Let me make one thing clear, I am in no way against megaupload being held accountable for crimes they committed, what bothers me is the methods employed to make that happen, which I would consider downright criminal.
Imagine that all the evidence in the WorldCom scandal is on the same servers as all of the other information. The SEC will seize the servers as evidence, effectively leading to a shutdown. I can guarantee they weren't really "shut down" in the "hey guys, time to close now" sense.

(for example, the servers could have been frozen rather than shut down)
There is no real difference between the two, you realize, correct? Shutting down a computer is actually something that is never done during an investigation; they just pull the plug. They need to seize it and pull information in a forensically-sound way, which involves pulling the hard drive and putting it on a special test bed setup such that the hard drive is mounted read only, and then make a copy. They have to hash both, and ensure that the hash on the copy doesn't change during investigation. Simply putting up a web page saying "Shut down temporarily, sucks bro." doesn't make the cut for US standards for the evidence; there's a reasonable ability for the information on the servers to still be changed at such a time.
 

AceofWind

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Filesonic has now disabled their public filesharing service. And what's worse? There's a "rumor" circling around that users who have uploaded or downloaded copyrighted content from MU are being fined. lol we are definitely submerging ourselves into some deep shit.
 
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blackraven1425

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Filesonic has now disabled their public filesharing service. And what's worse? There's a "rumor" circling around that users who have uploaded or downloaded copyrighted content from MU are being fined. lol we are definitely submerging ourselves into some deep shit.
The US can't just fine people like that. There needs to be proof of infringement presented before a court before damages can be awarded. I don't know how much the DoJ would even consider pursuing that route, since that would outright destroy their credibility with the people, and large scale protests aren't good for them.
 

Durecch

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

The US can't just fine people like that. There needs to be proof of infringement presented before a court before damages can be awarded. I don't know how much the DoJ would even consider pursuing that route, since that would outright destroy their credibility with the people, and large scale protests aren't good for them.
The U.S.? Going after people without any proof? Yeah, that's a silly thought. :rolleyes: I mean, as we all know, the U.S.'s main priority is that of preserving the human rights of its citizens and othe--
 

Arngrim

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

 

Vinceras

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Count uploadstation with the current list of downed file hosting site. Just went down a few minutes ago.
 

AceofWind

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Count uploadstation with the current list of downed file hosting site. Just went down a few minutes ago.
Appears to be fine for me.
 

Vinceras

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Appears to be fine for me.
"All sharing functionality on Uploadstation is disabled.
Our service can only be used to retrieve files that you have uploaded personally." All I get when I click on any uploadstation link. Either that or file deleted for copyright.
 

AceofWind

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

"All sharing functionality on Uploadstation is disabled.
Our service can only be used to retrieve files that you have uploaded personally." All I get when I click on any uploadstation link. Either that or file deleted for copyright.
Are you sure it's ( ) this site? I just uploaded some random flash to test it, it's working fine for me.
 

Vinceras

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Are you sure it's ( ) this site? I just uploaded some random flash to test it, it's working fine for me.
You can download anything YOU upload. Otherwise, no...it's not working.
 

Arngrim

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Summary of filesharing hosts, courtesy of reddit.

Megaupload – Closed

Fileserve – Stopped filesharing. You can only download your own files. Deleting multiple files. Banning Premium accounts. Closed Affiliate Program.

Filesonic – Stopped filesharing. You can only download your own files. Closed Affiliate Program. Changed server location Jan 22, 2012. Taken down it's Facebook page Now using Digital fingerprinting. Files are being deleted as soon as uploaded (as Hotfile did).

VideoBB – Closed Affiliate Program.

Filepost – Started suspending accounts with infringing material (as Hotfile did)

Uploaded.to – Blocked U.S. access.

Videozer – Closed Affiliate Program.

Filejungle – Owned by Fileserve (same as above). Testing USA IP addresses blocking.

Uploadstation – Owned by Fileserve (same as above). Testing USA IP addresses blocking.

4Shared – Deleting multiple files

EnterUpload - Down (Redirect)
 

Malefique

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

I can't shake the feeling that all those sites are going to end up like Demonoid ... After a lot of time waiting around for the smoke to clear, they're going to make it a private file hosting/sharing site, which will require an invitation in order to register. But sure as hell, they're not going to remain locked forever ...
 

Durecch

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

The way it looks right now, it seems like the U.S. is gonna see all manner of online businesses pull out of there. Gotta say, it's gonna be an amusing thing to see if suddenly their government starts crying about how the economy suddenly got worse 'for some reason'.
 

TwilitFeather

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Mediafire still works for now so that's something.
 

Eye

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

The way it looks right now, it seems like the U.S. is gonna see all manner of online businesses pull out of there. Gotta say, it's gonna be an amusing thing to see if suddenly their government starts crying about how the economy suddenly got worse 'for some reason'.
Because filesharing sites that have piracy as a major part of their business structure = small businesses.
 

AceofWind

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

The way it looks right now, it seems like the U.S. is gonna see all manner of online businesses pull out of there. Gotta say, it's gonna be an amusing thing to see if suddenly their government starts crying about how the economy suddenly got worse 'for some reason'.
Assuming this whole ordeal won't spark a riot first.
 

Wessex

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: SOPA, PIPA, MEGAUPLOAD, AND THE FUTURE OF THE FORUMS

Thats true. As much as I can see the USA literally kicked a bee nest. And I am not talking about MU.
 
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