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    #16
    Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

    Is Internet payed by governments? No, it's payed by private companies and users paying for accessing it.
    So it can't be considered a public space.
    Yet in many cases it's open up for anyone who have access to it (payed or not, as there are open connections you can use without paying for them).

    Can companies collect your data? Yes and it's often stated in rules that you have to agree with if you want to use their services (not reading that doesn't mean they don't apply).

    Do ISP companies or site owners need to give a fuck about your privacy? No. If you go to a place that does have security cameras all over, your problem. They may use it for marketing, use it to make sure no laws are broken, etc. You pay for accessing something, that data goes through their servers and they can use it. Releasing such data to general public is (or should be, depending on country) considered as something against the law. Companies are responsible for making sure your private information won't leak to the public eye.

    But, because anyone can access Internet, there are some rules that made it over from public spaces (and I guess, this is where confusion starts).

    Also, Internet anonymity and privacy are two different yet related things. By using, for example, facebook your privacy goes to hell. They have access to every single bit of your data, private or not and it's something you agreed on. Same with google and 99.9% of any company that manages data (even your ISP). Sensitive data is something they can't release to the public and making sure it's safe, again, from the public view. Doesn't mean they can't use it.
    Internet anonymity is something you can do if you want to, just to make sure most of your information is not being recorded. No company needs to enforce that and mostly won't do it.

    Whatever happens in your own, private network, is your own deal and your privacy right there. As soon as you connect it to Internet, you are literally giving your data left and right. Because you don't own your ISP, you don't own google, you don't own DNS you are using, you only own few cables, electronic devices and that's all. You only pay for accessing it and whatever is in your agreement with a company.

    Want a good example? Have a smartphone? Using it for taking photos?
    1. Send me those, share them with me. As soon as I have them, I can take everything stored inside and get your location with 4m error. Don't like that? Shouldn't have done that in the first place. But, I don't want to get sued for releasing that info to everyone, I am only going to use it to send you a profiled offer about a fucking company that offers delivering healthy food to your door. I have a deal with them and see that you are quite often buying fast food, which means you don't have a time to cook.
    Annoyed? Problem? Well, you gave me that yourself.
    2. Oh, so you know what you are doing and you sent me photos that got all that valuable data removed? Well, shucks.

    1. Your privacy over the Internet.
    2. Internet anonymity.

    On the other hand, most people don't give a single fuck about their data being collected, they are just happy that they get everything for (((free))). Well, fuck you, nothing is for free, even your mom's love comes with some strings attached, just because you aren't paying with money, doesn't mean you aren't paying at all.
    Sure, some people aren't even aware of all things that are going on, but mostly it's just "meh, whatever".

    EDIT:
    Oh and one more thing, because there are going to be some people not seeing how it is.
    All your private data, that company has access to, is not being analyzed by some Joe Shmoe with nerdy glasses on, no one have time for that shit. Algorithms do that, so technically no one is looking at it unless those lines of code detect some illegal shit.
    Last edited by Yoshiiki; 29th September 2017, 01:23.
    Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
    Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
    鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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      #17
      Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

      Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
      On the other hand, most people don't give a single fuck about their data being collected, they are just happy that they get everything for (((free))). Well, fuck you, nothing is for free, even your mom's love comes with some strings attached, just because you aren't paying with money, doesn't mean you aren't paying at all.
      Sure, some people aren't even aware of all things that are going on, but mostly it's just "meh, whatever".
      Oh you mean people who think erasing their browsing history is practicing good security?

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

        Originally posted by super_slicer View Post
        Oh you mean people who think erasing their browsing history is practicing good security?
        If there is more than one person using that computer?
        Yes, it is a good practice.
        Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
        Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
        鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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          #19
          Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

          Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
          Do ISP companies or site owners need to give a fuck about your privacy? No. If you go to a place that does have security cameras all over, your problem. They may use it for marketing, use it to make sure no laws are broken, etc. You pay for accessing something, that data goes through their servers and they can use it. Releasing such data to general public is (or should be, depending on country) considered as something against the law. Companies are responsible for making sure your private information won't leak to the public eye.
          Using your own analogy, even though they own the place, the corporations have no right to stick security cameras into changing booths or toilets.
          "RPG's aren't about problems, they're about having fun and watching your grimdark world devolve into Monty Python quotes."

          Just a little teaser: http://pastebin.com/vGndFrvY

          For truly it is written, RTFM.

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            #20
            Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

            Originally posted by super_slicer View Post
            Your original argument never mentioned such blatant idiocy. So let's take a moment and correct your mistake of thinking that the internet is a public space.
            Mind not resorting to mud-slinging? It hurts your point and makes you out to be a child.

            FYI the definition of a public space: A public space is a social space that is generally open and accessible to people. Roads (including the pavement), public squares, parks and beaches are typically considered public space. To a limited extent, government buildings which are open to the public, such as public libraries are public spaces, although they tend to have restricted areas and greater limits upon use.
            Well, at least you can use wikipedia. +1 point in your favor.

            Before you tout out some supreme court ruling I'll tell you this: Legal rulings made by ancient fucks that don't understand the technology with the ulterior motive of 'public safety' have no validity.
            See, you said I was doing some millennial flailing of the retarded variety, but right here is more in line with that kind of behavior. Sorry, bud, but you can't simply disregard the law when it's inconvenient for you. If you don't like a law, go through the proper channels to change it rather than whining and name-calling on the internet with all your impotent rage. I would be feeling embarrassed right now if I were in your seat.

            [qupte]One needs an account with an ISP to connect to the internet barring the special circumstance where they are using free wi-fi granted to them by an account holder, meaning that the internet does not fall under the definition of a public space as it is not generally open and accessible to people.[/quote]

            Yup. And nowhere in that contract are the words "oh, and we'll totally keep your information safely hidden behind 72 proxies!" You've signed up for a service, which includes keeping your own information limited to what you want other people to see.

            But let's ignore that for a second and say the network on which the internet exists IS a public space, akin to roads, however once you reach a site you've entered a private space just the same as entering a business off of that road. And even in the aforementioned public space of the road, Law enforcement agencies still need probable cause to search your vehicle, and anyone caught rummaging around through it without your consent can still be charged with burglary.
            I'm glad you comprehend this much, even if you're failing on the rest. Yes, the internet at large is like a public roadway. If the police see you doing something illegal in your car, or hear of something illegal happening in or around your vehicle, they can search it and even arrest you. You're correct that "probable cause" is a necessary factor. How do you avoid that? Don't give them cause.

            And to add to your point about entering a business, again you're exposing yourself. The only difference here is, your activity is limited to that place of business until you leave. That doesn't preclude that they are required to protect your behavior or habits, or that they are somehow required to not tell another business about you so that business can then go and try and make another sale. You can tell them to kindly fuck off and they have to respect that.

            But, McDonald's isn't required to keep anything you say/do private. Their business is open to the public, and you've entered into a social contract with them that doesn't preclude that you ordering a cheeseburger is a private affair.

            How about next we ignore that EVERY site not using .gov is housed on a privately owned server? Sure, without that context, forums could be considered public spaces... except for the fact that you need to create an account and gain membership in order to interact with them. Outside of forums I really can't conceive of any sites being even remotely considered public spaces as they aren't social spaces, perhaps news sites?
            Yeah, just like every business is on private property. What's your point? That business has the right to open its doors to you or tell you to leave and never return. Also, they're not obligated to listen when you demand they put up a curtain when you enter their business. Something you don't seem to understand is that, when you access a website or a McDonald's, your privacy is limited to what you choose to surrender. If you put all your information up for everyone to see, boo-fucking-hoo. Nobody is obligated to keep that private because you chose to throw a temper tantrum.

            So if it requires us to ignore all these facts how can one logically view the internet as a public space?
            Because it is? Your connection is like a road, or a sidewalk. You can walk on it, go wherever you want, etc. As soon as you enter a place of business open to the public (of which a majority of businesses and websites are), you're not suddenly given some cloak of invulnerability where your information is safeguarded by them. You're under their roof abiding by their rules and no amount of whining will change that. If their rules preclude that you not only tell them your dick size so they can tell their pals at the sex shop and those guys can try to sell you growth pills, then it's your decision to share that info or leave.

            Basically, if you don't like sharing shit with others, stay on the sidewalk.

            Bravo on your attempt to change your argument to something more suitable though, it was thiiiiis close. Keep pushing that mommy and daddy routine though, I'm getting a kick out of imagining you acting it out.
            I didn't change my argument, though. I've stayed the course. You're blindly throwing out assumptions based on your own interpretation instead of applying any amount of critical thinking. Also, once again, your argument is only hurt by insulting the other guy. It's also a sign of reluctant surrender.

            As for the only meaningful question you asked: It is up to the user and the site as well as the ISP to maintain privacy, unfortunately 99% of sites don't give a damn about their user's privacy and all of 0% of ISPs do, many even sell usage statistics. Thus the only way to maintain one's privacy (as the corrupt government couldn't give less of a fuck about your privacy) is to maintain their anonymity.
            You're correct. 99% of websites, ISP's, places of business, and even Pres. Trump don't give two fucks about protecting your privacy when you go to pornhub or your local 7-eleven. Why? Because you've signed a social contract that says that while you are in PUBLIC, you will behave in a manner that they determined appropriate. If you don't like it, then you've the right to protest it. Thankfully, they don't have to give a damn about that, either.

            ...And then you fall back on "THE BIG BAD GUBBMENT" schtick. Listen, friend. No government is perfect, and no politician is squeaky-clean. I'm not squeaky-clean. Yoshiiki isn't squeaky-clean. Oh, and here's a newsflash: you're not squeaky-clean. The other thing is, the people running the government were chosen by a representative majority. I don't like the PM of my country, but I also accept that fact that he is in charge for better or for worse.

            Whining about how your local congressman or whoever is such a corrupt snake changes nothing. Bitching (as you are now) about how your ISP won't protect the information you made available changes nothing. You want privacy online? Don't share shit. You want to share shit without consequences? Too damn bad. Part of being an adult is accepting the rights and responsibilities of your social contract with the rest of world, whether online or offline. If the concept of "PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" is too difficult for you to handle, then maybe you shouldn't try to own a home or vote. It's clear that you'll just blame everyone else when things don't work how you want them to.

            I'm done, since you clearly can't argue for shit and it's a waste of my time to help you understand why you're wrong.
            List of things that will never happen:

            ->Half Life 3
            ->Project X: Love Potion Disaster completed
            ->Dargoth MGQ:Paradox complete translation patch
            ->Panty and Stocking Season 2
            ->Reboot having a satisfying conclusion
            ->Ecstasy MGQ NG+ mod being finished

            Stuff I'm supporting:

            http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?t=30109

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              #21
              Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

              Originally posted by Hentaispider View Post
              Using your own analogy, even though they own the place, the corporations have no right to stick security cameras into changing booths or toilets.
              I see what you wanted to say there, but... Do they keep passwords in plaintext? (holy fuck, if they do they need a lawsuit).

              Also, not exactly true about changing rooms. Here is something (from 2014) about that in US: "All other states allow taping you in a dressing room—but if and only if they notify you of video camera.
              Spoiler

              So it all depends on what law allows and what it doesn't.

              Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
              Yoshiiki isn't squeaky-clean.
              I take a shower two times every day, so...
              Last edited by Yoshiiki; 2nd October 2017, 00:07.
              Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
              Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
              鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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                #22
                Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                Originally posted by Hentaispider View Post
                Using your own analogy, even though they own the place, the corporations have no right to stick security cameras into changing booths or toilets.
                First, get off my head AAAAHH!! A SPIDER!

                Second, they can't stick a video camera where you pee and change clothes, sure. That's a written law that says "if he needs to shit, we shouldn't be spying on him." If you're shooting up or fucking in that same space and they learn of it, though, they can kick you out and ban you indefinitely. Also, if you set off a cherrybomb or leave a huge turd in the toilet on purpose. Also, they can close the bathrooms or restrict who accesses them.

                Also, if you're intending to perform an indecent and/or criminal act in that bathroom (as mentioned above), then you've waived your right to privacy. Someone can report you and you can't fall back on "B-but muh privacy!" At the same time, it's a he said/she said situation.

                Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
                I see what you wanted to say there, but... Do they keep passwords in plaintext? (holy fuck, if they do they need a lawsuit).

                Also, not exactly true about changing rooms. Here is something (from 2014) about that in US: "All other states allow taping you in a dressing room—but if and only if they notify you of video camera.
                Spoiler

                So it all depends on what law allows and what it doesn't.
                Well, that's... odd.

                I take a shower two times every day, so...
                But do you wash your hands?
                Last edited by Ninja_Named_Bob; 29th September 2017, 08:02.
                List of things that will never happen:

                ->Half Life 3
                ->Project X: Love Potion Disaster completed
                ->Dargoth MGQ:Paradox complete translation patch
                ->Panty and Stocking Season 2
                ->Reboot having a satisfying conclusion
                ->Ecstasy MGQ NG+ mod being finished

                Stuff I'm supporting:

                http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?t=30109

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                  Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
                  If there is more than one person using that computer?
                  Yes, it is a good practice.
                  You could just use a browser that doesn't store information.

                  However, it doesn't really protect you from anything other than someone finding out that you watch tentacle porn. Unless you're using some kind of public computer... and you shouldn't be entering any private information into that anyway.


                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  Mind not resorting to mud-slinging? It hurts your point and makes you out to be a child.
                  Every time you bring up the word child it just further impresses the feeling that you're projecting.


                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  See, you said I was doing some millennial flailing of the retarded variety, but right here is more in line with that kind of behavior. Sorry, bud, but you can't simply disregard the law when it's inconvenient for you. If you don't like a law, go through the proper channels to change it rather than whining and name-calling on the internet with all your impotent rage. I would be feeling embarrassed right now if I were in your seat.
                  You should be embarrassed. Either you're a blind sheep that believes in the law because it's the law, or someone who actually supports such an obviously flawed and corrupt idea.

                  There are a great deal of inane an illogical and blatantly wrong laws, here's a fluff article on some : https://www.rd.com/funny-stuff/dumbest-laws-america/ do you truly believe that there's logical ground for someone to receive criminal charges based on mispronouncing a state's name?

                  Besides, I don't want to hear why some old geezer thinks the internet is public I want to watch you monkey around trying to convince me that it is.

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  Yup. And nowhere in that contract are the words "oh, and we'll totally keep your information safely hidden behind 72 proxies!"
                  You... you don't understand how networks function at all do you?

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  You've signed up for a service, which includes keeping your own information limited to what you want other people to see.
                  Ever hear of a public space requiring a contract to enter? Yet again, in order for it to be a public space it must be generally accessible which a contract precludes. So which is it, a public space or private space which you are granted access to by a contract?

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  Yes, the internet at large is like a public roadway.
                  It is not, I made it very clear that the subsequent statements were hypothetical and in no way concessions.

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  You're correct that "probable cause" is a necessary factor. How do you avoid that? Don't give them cause.
                  Ignoring the part about burglary here, which was the point.


                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  I didn't change my argument, though. I've stayed the course.
                  Maybe post your actual argument the first time then? The misconception that the internet is Public space wasn't mentioned at all in your original post.

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  It's also a sign of reluctant surrender.
                  Riiiiight, nothing like sticking your fingers in your ears and saying the same thing again and again like it will protect you from the heretical ideas of people who actually manage to think for themselves.

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  Listen, friend.
                  I am in no way your friend, do not refer to me as such.

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  Yoshiiki isn't squeaky-clean.
                  But I just washed him yesterday. WHAT DID YOU DO ?

                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  Oh, and here's a newsflash: you're not squeaky-clean.
                  How is that relevant to anything? I don't hold any power over other people's lives.


                  Originally posted by Ninja_Named_Bob View Post
                  I'm done, since you clearly can't argue for shit and it's a waste of my time to help you understand why you're wrong.
                  Ah, the old 'claim that you're victorious and run away before anyone can say different' taking moves straight out of the O'Reilly playbook now eh? Next you'll be typing in all caps right?

                  Besides, this was never an argument. I'm correcting the misinformation you've been posting. So think of it more like a class. Read, think, learn, stop being the unruly student in the back huffing glue and distracting the others around you.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                    Oh my god, again with that public/not public crap. This thread is getting annoying.

                    Every single place have some rules you have to follow. Just because private space uses same rules as public space, doesn't make it public. If there are extra rules, those will be listed somewhere.
                    Internet is a private thing (or more like, private places connected together), yes it does copy some rules from public spaces.
                    Just by entering it, you agree on those rules, if you give a damn, you can find them. You don't, your problem, in most cases those will be shown to you anyway, if you didn't read them, not their problem. Still, doesn't mean those rules don't apply if you ignore them.

                    Honestly, what I see here right now is mostly: Muh feels without any idea on the topic itself. Great, just great, let's use our feels when talking about things related to security, anonymity and such.
                    Like designing a building with only artist, some random person that felt like tagging along and not a single architect and engineer. That's going to work.
                    Plus, some things like bias or ego can't be easily dealt with and require a lot of work that no one have a time for.
                    If you think I am talking about you, maybe I do, maybe it's about other person. There is a reason why I kept it not pointed at anyone directly. Remember, offense is taken, not given, if you took it, maybe there was a good reason why your conscience did it's job.

                    Vaguely what was supposed to be said about main issue has been said. I don't see a point in derailing this any further, because in few more pages we will be talking about damn road construction.
                    Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
                    Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
                    鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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                      #25
                      Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                      Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
                      Remember, offense is taken, not given, if you took it, maybe there was a good reason why your conscience did it's job.
                      Not necessarily, if someone finds something I say offensive, there's a pretty good chance I intended for it to offend them.

                      Really though, get in the tub, it's time to get you clean again. And no playing in tentacle pits for at least a week!

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                        Originally posted by super_slicer View Post
                        Not necessarily, if someone finds something I say offensive, there's a pretty good chance I intended for it to offend them.

                        Really though, get in the tub, it's time to get you clean again. And no playing in tentacle pits for at least a week!
                        *Derails the thread himself, hypocrisy at it's finest*
                        You are not a girl, get the fuck out of my bathroom xD
                        Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
                        Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
                        鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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                          #27
                          Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                          Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
                          *Derails the thread himself, hypocrisy at it's finest*
                          You are not a girl, get the fuck out of my bathroom xD
                          But bobbo says you're not squeaky clean! It's my job to make sure you are! I'll give you a candy if you get in the tuuuuub ^_^

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                            #28
                            Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                            Originally posted by super_slicer View Post
                            But bobbo says you're not squeaky clean! It's my job to make sure you are! I'll give you a candy if you get in the tuuuuub ^_^
                            Doesn't mean I have to give a damn about stuff he says xD
                            No, it's not your job.

                            *Jumps off the thread* fuck this xD
                            Last edited by Yoshiiki; 1st October 2017, 04:46.
                            Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
                            Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
                            鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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                              #29
                              Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                              Originally posted by Yoshiiki View Post
                              No, it's not your job.

                              Get in the fucking tub Yoshi XD
                              Spoiler
                              Makes Dark Souls look like a casual 'E for Everyone' Care Bear Island Adventure game. -HarmlessBreeze about Long live the Queen
                              Life is more fun when you are insane. Just let go occasionally. -yakcamkir
                              Spoiler

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                                #30
                                Re: Net neutrality / HTTPS

                                Originally posted by super_slicer View Post
                                I'll give you a candy if you get in the tuuuuub ^_^
                                Originally posted by Byzantine2014 View Post
                                Get in the fucking tub Yoshi XD
                                Using "applocale" on Windows 8 & 10.
                                Shameless link to my dev blog - Making H-RPG.
                                鳴く猫はねずみを捕らぬ

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