What's new

[Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?


Shadowgungc

Jungle Girl
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
49
Reputation score
0
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

think the two biggest issues with H-games is Pacing and integration of content. Way too many games just sort of have their content slapped on top of the game and it more or less is unconnected to the game as a whole.

For most rpg's this turns all the h-content into a a cg set or small visual novel snippets. and for platforms its H-content ends up as animations; that you got along side with the game. For me least it creates a sort of whiplash with my focus which reduces my enjoyment of both the content and the game.

I find that the H-games I enjoy as a whole are ones where the "content" has an impact on the game play in some meaningful manor. At that point I'm engaged with both to some degree and able enjoy both.

The other issues of pacing is a major killer for me game play wise. As said before your first twenty fights with a slime can be interesting and titillating but after a point it becomes boring. Even for battle-rape and BF games where content is usually integrated by nature; they become stale and just a hassle to play through when it takes 30 minutes of game play o reach goblins and down right repugnant after another 30 of grinding to be able to get past the goblins for the 20 of game to get to the bandits.

Platforms suffer this pace all the same they have six enemies with two H each but forty levels of game to fill. No mater how well made the content is and how well it fits the game its self it'll wear out its welcome before the end

Granted all of this is based on the idea that some sort of gallery is unlocked at some point or as you go along. No bodies going to be happy with having to reload a game over and over again to see he content they want.

Otherwise the rest falls down into what makes good game play and what makes good porn which I think are very different things to talk about.
 

tontoman

Demon Girl
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
106
Reputation score
5
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

I remember a Japanese friend who told me that he loves to see things from the perspective of the girl, getting caught and put in uncomfortable situations.

There's an appeal to games where the H content is mostly getting caught in the middle of battle or being defeated.
In the shoes of the girl, you try your very best to move forward and avoid capture.
Getting caught when your guard is down gives these people a thrill.

I prefer seeing things from the perspective of the captor who captures girls but it's interesting to look at people who want to see things from the girl's point of view.
Well that's why it's impossible to make everyone happy, or at least happy 100% of the time.
I'm a hetro guy, but I'd rather the protagonist be a girl, and the enemies girls as I don't want any dick if I can avoid it in my porn. If my dick, literally, can't be there, I don't want to see any dick lol.
Maybe that's down to how people imagination works. Do they project themselves onto the male character, or do they just see themselves observing.
Everyone will be different.

Your friend should play Skyrim and mod it. There's a crap ton of mods can change it from getting killed in combat, to sex/rape/slavery instead depending on the mods. Makes taking on that bandit camp a whole different ballgame.
And there's a mod, Cursed Loot where chests can have traps that puts you into bondage gear... that then you have to run around in lol.

But does make me think in lots of ways, the best porn GAMES (as opposed to porn with some game element thrown in to block content), are games first that got pornified later. God bless modders.


@all
BTW for a different spin on RPG Maker games, there's a bunch of spanko ones on animeOTK (under videogames). No combat (no H pics either as these are not $$$ games), just text descriptions and spanking. But active, the active games have 100K views.
The most popular (well also the most actively developed) can have you playing the spanker and spankee.
 
Last edited:

LXP

Newbie
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
6
Reputation score
5
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

Hello everyone, I am a lurker, but this was so interesting, and I'm an ideas guy(joke, idea guys don’t get far without work), that I wanted to contribute. But since I wrote a lot, I wanted to split this up. Also, because this is so much derail, I'll take that outside.

I feel like good H-games when the feel of H and game work together. It's like what Shadowgungc states, that there's a lot of games where the H and game are separate. H is a system just like combat or art, and by separating the two, it's just a game with H or H with a game. But more so than that, what tontoman, azurezero are getting at is that H is the experience of a game. Like, GOR plays a different role in H-game than in normal game. If we're like, losing's a bad experience, GOR is bad. But if losing isn't a bad experience, and just an alternate experience, then GOR is cool and fun. Likewise, if seeing other dicks or captor play is not conducive to the experience of the fetish/genre/game, then it's no good.

Basically, I'm just rehashing ideas from this paper/essay, which is basically, games are about end-user experiences, eroticism is an experience and a game system. Please read, comment, discuss, and critique if you're interested:

Eroticism is an experience, and a system.
I, as an outsider to games, cannot say for certainty what a “game” means, because I can only see the outside product. The inner, the creation and the systems that have created this game (goes beyond the developer and their work, their life, culture, time. What Marxism states as “commodity fetishism” is what I call the outer).

I digress, as the major point is that I am making a theory/biased opinion, that games are about player experience. Not just games, but all of culture: From games to pornographic material to art, music, advertising, architecture, literally anything that is art (maybe science too, but citation needed). What is most important, I believe is that culture is about what the end user walks away with: from Post-modernistic critiquing the systems, to the fun in a game and the desire in a hentai. Without a good end-experience, what’s the point if no one consumes your work?

Eroticism is an experience. To explain this, I’ll point out the categorization of fetishes on DLsite. If you go into like, Pregnancy Brave not liking pregnancy by monsters, you’re either going to like it after, or just not like it at all. Then, all H is subject to this experience, since you’re not just buying a game, but also whatever fetishes are in that game. Sounds awful, but it’s just suggestions. We can make paradigm-breaking works, too.
Eroticism is also a system, just like AI, visual, art, mechanics. Everything, even those that say “no” live in relation to eroticism. (Thanks, Foucault).

This is an important paradigm shift, and it involves realizing that everything that is under the jurisdiction of power is therefore existent in everything that is part of it. Well, it’s like the existence of a full-screen mode. Some applications can be full-screened, some cannot, but everything says “I either have or do not have full-screen.” (Some say, I have multiple resolutions). In that same regard, every RPG maker game has that weird “Return, go to title, quit application”, and because it has become to exist, it has become common so much that even games that choose not to have that screen is not outside that screen, but instead taken a stance that says that no that screen.

Well, that’s a lot of words about Foucault. To apply this logic to eroticism, therefore everything has a relation to eroticism. It’s obvious for erotic games, but even non-erotic games have it, in that they refuse to incorporate it. It’s like gender in that everyone forms a relation to it, even if the relationship is refusal. Hm. Is AI, visual, art also part of power? In the systems of relations that we call games, those other systems exist and all games form a relation to them. Therefore, all games much treat eroticism with the same respect as the other systems. (By respect, I mean taking the time to think about what relation to create with it).

What makes a “good” H-game is the interplay between the eroticism and experience.
Let’s look at case examples:
1: Pac-man, but after winning a level, you get a ero-picture. This is a game, but the H is vestigial, like, I could just rip the code for pics, and play Google’s Pac-Man. There’s a clean line between H and game.

2: Visual novel. Erotic ones. Or maybe interactive clickers (think that guy who made the jellyfish of water and forest, as well as dragon bride). What is the experience that stems from the outcome of eroticism from clicking on spaces? Like a hidden object game, but porn instead of “the end”. I can argue that if you rip the interactivity, it’s not the same, but it’s like, bare minimum of “game”. For erotic visual novels, it’s basically user preforming a search (like Depth first, Breadth first) on a dialogue tree, and some branches have eroticism (maybe all). The game is searching through the tree with no information about the final tree shape, but some hints as to the value of the next branch. It’s interesting that we could train an AI to play visual novels and have them get “the goldenest end” with likelihood better than randomly. Dang. There’s no direct value, but it’s interesting to apply some heuristics to story, plot, and the application that has for analyzing conversations. That’s not my field of philosophical expertise, though.

3: Moral sword Asagi. The fetish is seeing strong girls beg for it and also in bondage. It’s more than win combat, see CG. To support the fetish, the combat is about the computer groping the player until they raped (groping is also other supporting moves, like put into bondage). Since the player doesn’t have a pass-turn move, you get the impression that the player isn’t fooling around (also the art). But then there’s the grope. There’s ROL as well, which supports the experience of the fetish.

4: MGQ. The fetish is femdom. To support this, you lose to get CG. Losing creates inequal power, femdom is about female power dominance, QED. The story’s also like, “no sex,” which I guess makes the CGs more appealing, because you’re like “yes sex.” Also, the monsters use sex maneuvers on you during battle, makes no sense in standard RPG, but since all monsters want your pants off and it’s better for off pants to seduce rather than overpower. Exceptions are created when we want strong female characters (citation needed). Then the H is a system, lack of H creates meaning, meaning creates experience. QED.

5: I dunno, what’s a vanilla, consensual sex game with H in combat? It feels hard, because if we make H in combat, it feels like non-consensual. Maybe a game where we’re like having romantic times and H in combat is the romance? Succubus quest comes close, but the H is non-consensual. But it’s great if we want a game about experience sex with succubus.

6: Echidna wars DX. The fetish is VORE Time. Also, Yuri and helpless protag, but probably most helpless protag. To support this, the systems put the player in helpless situations (covered in web, wrapped up, in a stomach, a Yuri embrace). There’s also the strong girl turns into weak girl experience, and losing SP. SP means energy, and with no energy, it means… VORE TIME. (Sorry, I really like that quote.)

From these studies, we can see the weave between sex and game.
Since H is a system, it must play comfortably with the other systems. I guess, how does the systems show the eroticism. An example is GOR. If you’re a female protag and want to be about bondage and non-consensual, that’s good. On the other hand, consensual sex is harder to do with GOR, because consensual means equal, and GOR is about an inequality of power. Corruption is also fun, but if it’s just a number going up forever with no effects on text, what’s the point? To support it, there’s like the same CG, but with a more comfortable protag and lewder text. And so on and forth.

What makes RPG combat interesting?
All games exist in relation to user time. For example, see T-Hawk’s solo white mage run: [Err, this is post 1, therefore no links].
(dos486.com/ff/whitemage/)
In response to grinding in a non-white mage job, he’s like “Sorry, but at the end of the day, we all have Aging status and a Doom clock overhead.” In fact, everything does (thanks Foucault).

There are two parts of an RPG, the strategical and the tactical. The strategical is about what to buy, if to save up, and so on. Is this mallet that lets me murder the nearby wildlife 1 turn faster more valuable than the cost of money before getting the next weapon that does that? Is it worth it to murder all the local wildlife so I can steamroll everything forever? Should I get this treasure chest? Worth is measured with time.

Tactical is then what happens inside the battle, if strategical is outside the battle. This is an interesting field, because it’s easy to get wrong.

My main addition to this field of work is the addition of the concept of beatdown vs. control. It exists in Magic, and has been incorporated into the field of Dominion, why not here? I think it can be incorporated into power’s jurisdiction (power is a method, therefore not always wrong) whenever there are two opposing sides.

starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/3692_Whos_The_Beatdown.htm
forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15488.0

If you’re browsing through, essentially, there exists the concept of control vs. beatdown. A control player is investing more long-term and trying to make the game/match last longer. A beatdown player is investing more short-term and trying to decide the match in its favor before the investments pay off. This struggle then is standardly, can the control overcome beatdown? So, I suggest that this struggle is highlighted in all 1 vs 1 game. So, how does an RPG do this? To make the actions of the actors into power, take a game where you can heal or deal damage. Dealing damage is a beatdown tactic. Healing HP is a control tactic. Essentially, the actions have meaning, which are “I think bursting HP and finishing this match is worth more than making it go longer,” vs “I think making the match go longer with make me favored long-term, so I, Achilles, can outrun that turtle’s distance handicap.” But what’s interesting is that the player and computer can switch roles not just in-between matches, but also in matches.

Let’s take another example. The player’s cutting through some trash mobs. He’s the beatdown, so hard, the computer must be control. But the computer’s tools are stuff like {attack, Fire, Sleep}, it’s not that good at being control. That’s a good thing, because we dislike all mobs taking forever. But then the player gets his turns cut because he got put to sleep and the computer buffed itself up. Now the player must make decisions, whether to run, use his dekaja (or is it dekunda?), or to keep the beatdown. Spoilers, it’s probably not a good idea to continue being the beatdown.

For a more concrete example, let’s go to everybody’s favorite spooby skeleton, Matador from SMT: N. It starts off as you being very encouraged to be the control, undo his buff, stack your buff, and try to survive. Otherwise he keeps dodging you and well that’s that. Then you’re taking shots, and suddenly he just Taunts you. Now, with your buffs, the defense drop, you’re encouraged to be beatdown, because jesus he just whacked your party for half its Hp. The roles reverse, and the defense debuff + HP damage will take you down soon, so you should beat him down faster than him. Now suddenly, you want to end the match soon, because he’s favored long-term, between his stuff, and your inability to efficiently heal to full and deal with def drops.

Then, what makes a tactical excitement is the experience of trying to switch between these roles, and doing so fluidly, swimming so freely from defender to attacker and back, is that it? I think it’s exciting.

There’s also the strategical, you know. All matches occur in user space and not in a vacuum. Most of the time, you can expend resources for boons. You can be the better beatdown, or a better control, but just pay the price. Is it worth it to shove that elixir, or to power through? Running away is a strategical move (thanks, 32 stratagems) that says, the fight’s not worth the gained resources. So, the strategical and tactical coincide forever. An example is Succubus Quest, because it’s dear to my heart. 1: You don’t have the standard control move of HP heal. They all come with a side effect, whether it costs money, RP, tension, you’re forced to make a tactical/strategical decision: Take the tension hit and believe that the turns gained will pay off, use an item and believe the no-tactical cost is better than the strategical loss of resources, or use RP and believe that you’ll win the dungeon faster than you hit 0 RP? If there was a standard heal, the decisions boil down to beatdown or control for strategical loss, sometimes tactical. Without it, it’s control, but what do you choose to sacrifice? Being beatdown is free, and control moves are all costing tension, items, or RP. What’s least important changes as well, so the experience isn’t routine.

I guess in the end, what experience do we want the player to walk out with?
So, how will eroticism translate? It depends on what experience we want the player to have. Since H is a system, combat is a system, it’s up to the creator. But H is probably what we want from the system. But that seems so painful, like, here’s all this info, good luck (kicks you into the deep end of the pool). Please reread studies 3,4,5 if you’re overwhelmed. Also look for the interweave. Learning’s fun, you guys.

So, great H-games interweave the H fetish(es) with systems that support it, combat’s only another system. Okay H-games weave them loosely, or maybe in different-pulling directions. Bad H-games are probably just there because time and energy are hard, and it’s easier to make a good game or porno than a good H-game.
In closing, thanks for reading this crazy paper. Alongside that, Games are about experience, and eroticism is a big part of experience with H-games. H is a system, and needs to play nice to get the final experience.
Sorry for basically hi-jacking this thread and dumping my ideas over it, but I wanted to contribute to this renissance of H-conceptions, but I felt that making a new thread would be like "who's this weirdo"? (Also I'm a bit shy.) I'll check back, and try to clarify all weird stuff. I hope to get along with you all.
 
Last edited:

Boxtie

Jungle Girl
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
256
Reputation score
168
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

Your friend should play Skyrim and mod it. There's a crap ton of mods can change it from getting killed in combat, to sex/rape/slavery instead depending on the mods. Makes taking on that bandit camp a whole different ballgame.
You mean that Prison Overhaul mod?
I find the imagery of a girl being bound and marched to prison so fucking hot.

Wish there was more of that in video games (and I'm not talking about cutscenes).
 

Thronico

Demon Girl
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
117
Reputation score
28
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

H-Combat is one of those things that changes depending on the type of game you're playing. I don't just mean Platformers vs. RPG's either. The different genres of RPG games also affects how the combat should be handled.

One of the best ways to handle H-Combat, for me personally, is to not have GoR. If I'm playing an H-Game, or any game, I want no incentive to lose, because I, admittedly, hate losing.
There are two ways to handle H-Combat in RPG games.

You can have H Content be linked with combat in some way, Combat Rape, Battle Fuck, mere Clothing Destruction, etc...

Or, you can have H Content and combat be separated. Games with crafting systems in the forms of different weapons, armors, etc.. can sometimes go this route, albeit, most don't.

I personally, enjoy H in my combat. But I don't want to lose for it, I actually made a poll thread awhile back about whether or not people liked GoR and we had a lot of good discussion on it. Combat in RPG's needs to be balanced. Only boss fights should be taking you longer than three minutes to complete.
(ALSO, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SHOW ME THEIR FUCKING HEALTH BAR)

Games with Kisekae, or clothes changing, usually has clothing destruction at the least in its combat. Whereas, games that have you wearing only one outfit, tend to have H Content only through regular still CG's, and usually not much more.

H-Combat needs to feel good. Weapons and crafting, or at the very least loot, and its impact on your damage and defense must be felt. Assuming, you're playing a game where your goal isn't to make your heroine lose, like Princess Lucia.

Platformers, I think it's a lot easier than most dev's realize. It just takes more work, but the end goal is simple.

Fluidity.

I cannot tell you how many ACT games I have played that I hated simply because of how fucking stiff the MC was, or because the animations were just awkward and janky. Give the characters combos, give the enemies more life than just, "I walk this way. Only this way. No stop, only walk." Also, don't give specific enemies their own GO screens if you can't unlock them by beating the stage because jesus christ fuck you.

The thing is, the same thing that makes regular combat fun in games, should be applied to H-Games. The only difference is that you add porn to one, which you can integrate through H-Cut In's for groping or rape attacks, or attacks the player does themselves on the enemy like Drop Factory and such, or the latest Shoku game.

It's not THAT hard as long as you have the necessary knowledge to make a game in the first place. It's time consuming, but definitely not impossible.

Edit: Jesus, sorry for the wall, only realized after posting how long I went on for.
 

D-D

Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
612
Reputation score
70
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

I don't really understand what this thread seeks but here's what I like in H-games:

Sidescroller: Fluid movement, dodge roll

RPG: Text skip, no need to grind too much

In general: clear objectives, fast movement

H-stuff wise: Combat rape, option to struggle/prolong/do nothing/give up, in case of GoR let the player to continue without losing too much progression


Abduction in case of defeat and making the player escape from an enemy compound is a great way to give a GoR-ish feeling while giving it replayability and continuity with the story. Of course the escape shouldn't be made too hard for the player. I actually would like to see this kind of stuff more.

I think what makes playing as a girl in H-games such a turn on is because you are essentially following the story of a heroine who thinks "oh no this situation is morally bad but why does it feel so good?!" while falling into lust.
 

BigJohnny

Tentacle God
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
1,408
Reputation score
379
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

Look, 99.9 the combat in any Japanese h-game is attack/magic/item/defend so just throw in some grapples, h-attacks, cloth damage, lust attacks and so on.
 

Tesseract

Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Joined
Sep 2, 2012
Messages
638
Reputation score
106
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

There is a whole lot that needs to come together to make something fun. The devil is in the details, really. Its all the small things that usually get overlooked.

The bigger things are usually pretty easy to point out and thus taken for granted most of the time. But the bulk of that is common sense stuff that only really stands out when its done poorly i.e.:
  • Controls should feel nice and responsive. (mostly important for action games)
  • UI/Menus should be readable, fluid, logical, and not cumbersome to navigate. (not as important for action games, since not as much time is spent in the UI)
  • Good pacing. Don't force the player to stick too long to a section of the game where they might get bored. In action games, this might mean more checkpoints, randomized elements (such as enemy AI/variety/animations, or roguelike level layouts/etc.), or deep combat system to add variety to mix up repetition. In RPGs you might add a fun way for players to skip or fast forward through enemies that they have fought enough times before.
  • Good music and impactful/interesting sound design is always a nice bonus.

The games that have really stand-out combat are the ones that have lots of little details that keep it from being repetitive. There's never a "one-size-fits-all" solution. You have to tailor solutions to the problems that your own game's systems present to its own gameplay. It could be something as simple as tweaking some sounds and screen shake to REALLY make that gun feel powerful and satisfying to shoot. Or you may have to add in six different kick combos to give the player some creative options.

And then there's the fine line between making a game challenging & rewarding, or too difficult and repetitive. You could fix this numerous ways; maybe have a really well designed tutorial to give the player tools to play better. Or maybe have a well-designed difficulty curve that slowly introduces new concepts to the player. Or just have a simple difficulty option in the settings. Whatever works best for the systems in your game. If games were so simple that we could distill them down to a ten-item checklist every time, then they wouldn't be fun for very long.

For h-games specifically though? Same deal. Make sure the h-content is tailored in a way that fits your game. I think it is a good idea to implement the H into the combat itself as a game mechanic. It allows for creativity in the h-art, enemy encounters and player choice. If a game only has game-over CGs or "loss" animation, I guess that can be fine... but it is not much better than just googling hentai pictures at that point. When you're tying the h-content to something more meaningful (like the combat), it can make it more impactful and exciting for the player.
 
Last edited:

tontoman

Demon Girl
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
106
Reputation score
5
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

You mean that Prison Overhaul mod?
I find the imagery of a girl being bound and marched to prison so fucking hot.

Wish there was more of that in video games (and I'm not talking about cutscenes).
That's one, but no. Cursed Loot. You spring a trap and it can throw on bondage gear that you'll have to deal with while in the middle of a dungeon. Or gas trap and enemies will spawn and rape you. It also has a prostitution side mode for getting money at inns. If you sleep outdoors, chance of rape etc.
It literally has 10 pages of options to setup to your liking.

I like it as you can (with other mods) make it hard core that you have to do things that put you at risk for money/food, so these 'bad' situations come up naturally instead of having to play to lose which I hate.

Below spoiled for neatness.

If you like bondage stuff, there's a whole string of mods that work together.
Cursed Loot as mentioned. You can pretty much keep dungeon running until you get your arms bound... then you have to bail heh. Example: You can find keys in chests to undo items, but then again if you hit another trap you can get more bondage. And even if you get a key, if in armbindings you can't use it. So you tramp back to a town (can ask follower if you have one)... which is dangerous... and ask NPCs for help. But there's a chance they can help, take your key, add more minding or even sex you. All chances are adjustable in the mod to suit your game style.

Deviously Helpless - Rape by bandits if they see you bound, fun if trying to get to a city to get your bindings removed (blacksmiths heh).

Devious Captures - Which adds enemies adding bondage gear once you lose in combat (and DON'T die with the Defeat no death mod). Which ties into the above.

Defeat - No death on combat lose, and player rape. Triggers Captures.

Another BIG mod which have to be careful with due to mod onflicts is Captured Dreams Shop. A bondage/slave shop run by a mistress you can work for (do quests, run shipping jobs). But be careful of her 'safety' measures she uses so you don't steal the package heh. Also latest version has a whole slavery thing with her.
So you work for her legit (she does pay etc.), but she's got some sneaky ulterior motive.

Fillherup: is fun, have get a physics and bone enabled model though, which is good anyway for bouncy breasts. But gives stomach inflation after sex, and comments about your status and how if feels (and NPC comments about how you look) until you can get rid of it. Can be pretty comical when you have a string of bad luck (one regular sex does little). Or just lose to a giant as they fill you up BIG time lol.

All found at Loverslab, as these aren't hosted on Nexus and have done a pretty good job working together so they all work off each other. It's still MODs though, so have to be careful and good at installing them properly.
 
Last edited:

The Silver Bard

Demon Girl
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
85
Reputation score
14
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

...
What makes a “good” H-game is the interplay between the eroticism and experience.
Let’s look at case examples:
1: Pac-man, but after winning a level, you get a ero-picture. This is a game, but the H is vestigial, like, I could just rip the code for pics, and play Google’s Pac-Man. There’s a clean line between H and game.

2: Visual novel. Erotic ones. Or maybe interactive clickers (think that guy who made the jellyfish of water and forest, as well as dragon bride). What is the experience that stems from the outcome of eroticism from clicking on spaces? Like a hidden object game, but porn instead of “the end”. I can argue that if you rip the interactivity, it’s not the same, but it’s like, bare minimum of “game”. For erotic visual novels, it’s basically user preforming a search (like Depth first, Breadth first) on a dialogue tree, and some branches have eroticism (maybe all). The game is searching through the tree with no information about the final tree shape, but some hints as to the value of the next branch. It’s interesting that we could train an AI to play visual novels and have them get “the goldenest end” with likelihood better than randomly. Dang. There’s no direct value, but it’s interesting to apply some heuristics to story, plot, and the application that has for analyzing conversations. That’s not my field of philosophical expertise, though.

3: Moral sword Asagi. The fetish is seeing strong girls beg for it and also in bondage. It’s more than win combat, see CG. To support the fetish, the combat is about the computer groping the player until they raped (groping is also other supporting moves, like put into bondage). Since the player doesn’t have a pass-turn move, you get the impression that the player isn’t fooling around (also the art). But then there’s the grope. There’s ROL as well, which supports the experience of the fetish.

4: MGQ. The fetish is femdom. To support this, you lose to get CG. Losing creates inequal power, femdom is about female power dominance, QED. The story’s also like, “no sex,” which I guess makes the CGs more appealing, because you’re like “yes sex.” Also, the monsters use sex maneuvers on you during battle, makes no sense in standard RPG, but since all monsters want your pants off and it’s better for off pants to seduce rather than overpower. Exceptions are created when we want strong female characters (citation needed). Then the H is a system, lack of H creates meaning, meaning creates experience. QED.

5: I dunno, what’s a vanilla, consensual sex game with H in combat? It feels hard, because if we make H in combat, it feels like non-consensual. Maybe a game where we’re like having romantic times and H in combat is the romance? Succubus quest comes close, but the H is non-consensual. But it’s great if we want a game about experience sex with succubus.

6: Echidna wars DX. The fetish is VORE Time. Also, Yuri and helpless protag, but probably most helpless protag. To support this, the systems put the player in helpless situations (covered in web, wrapped up, in a stomach, a Yuri embrace). There’s also the strong girl turns into weak girl experience, and losing SP. SP means energy, and with no energy, it means… VORE TIME. (Sorry, I really like that quote.)

From these studies, we can see the weave between sex and game.
Since H is a system, it must play comfortably with the other systems. I guess, how does the systems show the eroticism. An example is GOR. If you’re a female protag and want to be about bondage and non-consensual, that’s good. On the other hand, consensual sex is harder to do with GOR, because consensual means equal, and GOR is about an inequality of power. Corruption is also fun, but if it’s just a number going up forever with no effects on text, what’s the point? To support it, there’s like the same CG, but with a more comfortable protag and lewder text. And so on and forth.
...
So, great H-games interweave the H fetish(es) with systems that support it, combat’s only another system. Okay H-games weave them loosely, or maybe in different-pulling directions. Bad H-games are probably just there because time and energy are hard, and it’s easier to make a good game or porno than a good H-game.
I want to think you for articulating the ideas that are the basis of my H-game design philosophy. The core of game design involves integrating mechanics and theme in a way that supports both, which is a concept that a lot of novice game designers seem to struggle with. Ludo-narrative dissonance has become an overused buzzword, but it's referring to a failure of the designer to do this.

H-games have the additional challenge of needing to integrate erotica as well. Most of them do a pretty good job of merging the theme and erotica, but leave out the mechanics, considering them an afterthought.

While I am reluctant to plug my own work in an academic discussion, I do have an example for your case 5. That very question was exactly what I was trying to answer when I made

I justify the BF combat by having the player and his opponents all being voluntary participants in a sexfighting competition. The player is rewarded for winning fights, but not penalized for losing, so both outcomes can be viewed as acceptable. By convention, losing participants typically service the winners, but no one is forced to do anything they don't want, so it never seems incongruous when you sexfight a girl all night and then spend the time between matches romancing her.
 

Boxtie

Jungle Girl
Joined
Apr 26, 2017
Messages
256
Reputation score
168
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

Maybe one could create some sort of universe or setting that tailors to a specific fetish or H mechanic?

I was thinking about how a magical race (like fairies, elves, pixie, dryads, etc.) could have a bizarre mating ritual where the males find a mate by capturing the females using magical binds.
According to the laws of that setting, if the female is captured/unable to break free, then they will be mated by their captor.

But it's not entirely "non-consensual", since in that setting's culture, being able to weave strong magical binds is seen as "worthy", making the captives more accepting of their captors.

It could be females capturing other females if desired.
 

Attachments

azurezero

Tentacle God
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
2,993
Reputation score
316
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

Maybe one could create some sort of universe or setting that tailors to a specific fetish or H mechanic?

I was thinking about how a magical race (like fairies, elves, pixie, dryads, etc.) could have a bizarre mating ritual where the males find a mate by capturing the females using magical binds.
According to the laws of that setting, if the female is captured/unable to break free, then they will be mated by their captor.

But it's not entirely "non-consensual", since in that setting's culture, being able to weave strong magical binds is seen as "worthy", making the captives more accepting of their captors.

It could be females capturing other females if desired.
I recall a setting where princesses had to wait in fully guarded towers for people to break in fight 100+ guards, and then pin them down and ravish them...

well that was the expected route, the princess in question was mad she was getting an arranged marriage instead. cant for the life of me remember which book it was, it mightve been maiden (one of the aishling morgan books)
 

LXP

Newbie
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
6
Reputation score
5
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

Hello again, I hope I’m not necroing a dead thread…:eek:

@The Silver Bard, thanks for replying!
I think it’s important to put self-knowledge in academia, as academia is best if it is personal.
Otherwise, academia becomes knowledge for knowledge's sake, and then how will we integrate this knowledge into our lives and actions?
But it might be a problem if references to works (or plugs) aren't really connected to the discussion.

The rest of the academic thought continues here, but maybe it would be better for thread reading fluidity to furl it like a map?
I also took the time to play your game, and it’s as you said, a romantic BF game. I think it’s mainly because of the narrative, but I also enjoy that the cast is largely static (in that it’s the same characters, and not like after other BFs, where you move on to the next enemy), but grow in power, so you don’t have the niggling thought of “But the enemies are too weak, my time is better spent beating stronger monsters.”
The game also rewards you for winning, losing, drawing with different sexy times for each (Although it does feel bad to be behind your opponents by a lot).
Overall, I recommend an academic/erotic look at the game. Although I am biased, I think it is okay to be that.

As for the idea Boxtie is discussing, I think that it’s probably a good idea to try to do. Although I have no experience with creating erotic worlds, I hope people will try it and see how it works. You can also have the H mechanics also create the universe, just as the universe create the mechanics.

A few examples would be Succubus Quest 1, where before the first real fight, the narrative tells you: 1: The protagonist is good at punching people. 2: You can’t punch succubus well. 3: Therefore, BF. 4: Also you’re level 1.
Another (not-H) example is Rogue Legacy, where the mechanics tell you: 1: This castle has been here forever. 2: Everyone who goes in wagers all their money. 3: You’re in economic squalor, because the king, and your ancestor went in before you for living forever. Also, both tell you this: Children are responsible for their parent’s actions.
I think that we’re generating good discussion, both here and the thread on discussing the realities of creating a H-game on both producer and consumer side (Mainly producer): ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?t=30253
Which is interesting, as the OP started off very emotional. I felt like it could have gone worse, but it’s become a small vignette of knowledge.

Hopefully this isn't too much words, but I was a bit embarrassed to just reply to just have a response.
 

Mr.Pervy

Demon Girl Pro
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
143
Reputation score
42
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

ehhhhh i-i know im late to the party.....

but i still kind of want to give my feedback.

what makes RPG's fun to me is the ability to dominate and control the situation.

in Ahirman's games you are able to find things like submission cuffs, and binding rope. which allows your characters to capture themselves.

and in sneak in desperada, you can wear costumes that give you debuffs and actually show up.

being able to control what happens to your characters or your enemies....i love that. and i wish there were more games that did that.

i dont want a suicide thing that eliminates my character, but i dont wanna make it fair for my character either.
 

Papanomics

Lurker
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
1,754
Reputation score
657
Re: [Discussion] What makes H-game combat fun?

1. Custom enemies. Not the slimes, not the rats, not the bats, ect.

2. Clothing destruction

3. Sexual advances during combat

4. Defeat rape
 
Top