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RPG Unknown/Hiatus Malise and the Machine - Public Demo Available Now!


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miachan

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Here's some math.

1,460 days to get to .06.

That's 1/17th ( rounded up from 16.6 )

1,460(days) x 16 ( the other 16/17 needed for completion ) =23,360 days

Or divided by 365, that's roughly 64 years until completion.

7000(patreon monthly fee) x 12 ( months in a year ) x 64 ( years until completion ) = 5,460,000 USD

Translation: If you pledge to this campaign, you are giving money away to a scam artist. I hope you all can still get it up in your 80's and 90's. because the projected finish date for this game is 2081. lol.
 

mayaktheunholy

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Funny how all of you bumping this thread to complain/vent are just giving them free publicity...
 

bluewr

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. Show me one -one- full time creator who actually put in at least 7 hours of work 5 days a week, and I'll eat my words and support their project the next 3 months.
Sourjelly of Anthophobia,

Weekly progress report on what he has done with actual sprite work, stage design, or CG shown
Monthly support build with updates and changes
Has released and sold a completed game on dlsite.com and Nutaku(old)
Released a major content update(3 stage with new boss and enemies with sprite and CG)
Currently working on another big stage update for the first game

Has done and shown sprite work for planned sequel, which will go into full production after the final update to the first game.
 
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Eromancer

Eromancer

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Here's some math.

1,460 days to get to .06.

That's 1/17th ( rounded up from 16.6 )

1,460(days) x 16 ( the other 16/17 needed for completion ) =23,360 days

Or divided by 365, that's roughly 64 years until completion.

7000(patreon monthly fee) x 12 ( months in a year ) x 64 ( years until completion ) = 5,460,000 USD

Translation: If you pledge to this campaign, you are giving money away to a scam artist. I hope you all can still get it up in your 80's and 90's. because the projected finish date for this game is 2081. lol.
Anyone with an ounce of sense can see you're throwing bullshit numbers out there to try to prove a point, yet I'm the one pulling a veil over your eyes? Eh.

I'm spending approximately a thousand dollars a month over our Patreon income currently by funding the remainder of our costs out of my own pocket. That's a pretty terrible scam. Obviously, I have enough faith in myself and my team to be digging into my own pocket. That being said, I guarantee I could show you an itemized list of our expenses and you'd choose to ignore it because you're only here to complain.

I'd really love to be more open on this forum as I used to be, but when all you guys do is spew paranoid delusional garbage and hate on Patreon do you really have to question why I've chosen to not share things publicly until we can show off the new playable version? Heck, even after the release we'll certainly have some of you coming at us with 3rd grade "math" trying to tell us we'll fail.

It's obviously been way longer than intended for this upcoming release to happen (and that does suck, and I really am sorry things didn't work out as simply as I'd envisioned), but that's not a signal that we've only completed a small amount of work. You guys are the ones that choose to believe that, whereas my active patrons on here who see our current work defend us and lend evidence to the contrary. Our work simply hasn't converged into a playable experience that merits releasing yet (though, we're approaching that point).

Also, I'll be glad once we're in the new engine and the whole stigma around the "how long can an RPG Maker game possibly take?" thing can be dropped, since there are apparently still people who think the production of this project is on a similar scale to any random RPG Maker game.

Translation: Step off and let us do our work, haters. For everyone else: if you liked our old demo, come see all the cool stuff we're working on now on Patreon as our next playable version comes together. Otherwise, chill out and wait for all the new stuff to hit forums / our tumblr / blogspot as soon as we're ready to show it off.

Is some form of coherent release scheduled within the next six months?
Yup, sooner than that!
 

ThatWeirdGuyWithaWeirdHat

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For everyone else: if you liked our old demo, come see all the cool stuff we're working on now on Patreon as our next playable version comes together. Otherwise, chill out and wait for all the new stuff to hit forums / our tumblr / blogspot as soon as we're ready to show it off.
As much as I'd love to fund the project, I don't trust Patreon, not you but Patreon itself, with my credit card info. And you know PayPal won't accept where the money would be going towards.

So you have my unfunded support :D As good as that does you lol...
 
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Eromancer

Eromancer

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As much as I'd love to fund the project, I don't trust Patreon, not you but Patreon itself, with my credit card info. And you know PayPal won't accept where the money would be going towards.

So you have my unfunded support :D As good as that does you lol...
According to our programmer Patreon accepts Paypal for NSFW creations :D. He's using Paypal in order to view our posts to respond to comments/etc.
 
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I'm just pleased with how great the new Neon looks and I fully understand that you are trying your best to not make just another rpg maker game, the last time I played what you had published other then a few stock sounds effects I couldn't even tell it was an rpg maker game.
 

nanaya1234

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Anyone with an ounce of sense can see you're throwing bullshit numbers out there to try to prove a point, yet I'm the one pulling a veil over your eyes? Eh.

I'm spending approximately a thousand dollars a month over our Patreon income currently by funding the remainder of our costs out of my own pocket. That's a pretty terrible scam. Obviously, I have enough faith in myself and my team to be digging into my own pocket. That being said, I guarantee I could show you an itemized list of our expenses and you'd choose to ignore it because you're only here to complain.

I'd really love to be more open on this forum as I used to be, but when all you guys do is spew paranoid delusional garbage and hate on Patreon do you really have to question why I've chosen to not share things publicly until we can show off the new playable version? Heck, even after the release we'll certainly have some of you coming at us with 3rd grade "math" trying to tell us we'll fail.

It's obviously been way longer than intended for this upcoming release to happen (and that does suck, and I really am sorry things didn't work out as simply as I'd envisioned), but that's not a signal that we've only completed a small amount of work. You guys are the ones that choose to believe that, whereas my active patrons on here who see our current work defend us and lend evidence to the contrary. Our work simply hasn't converged into a playable experience that merits releasing yet (though, we're approaching that point).

Also, I'll be glad once we're in the new engine and the whole stigma around the "how long can an RPG Maker game possibly take?" thing can be dropped, since there are apparently still people who think the production of this project is on a similar scale to any random RPG Maker game.

Translation: Step off and let us do our work, haters. For everyone else: if you liked our old demo, come see all the cool stuff we're working on now on Patreon as our next playable version comes together. Otherwise, chill out and wait for all the new stuff to hit forums / our tumblr / blogspot as soon as we're ready to show it off.



Yup, sooner than that!
Lol so butthurt. Sorry but taking too long IS a legitimate complaint. Also since you love making your progress reports completely patreon only guess what. NOBODY sees that anything is happening and the last thing they've seen is 3 years ago.

If you're so adamant that your project is great then show SOMETHING to non/past patreons without having to give you anymore of their hard earned money. It's like working on a company project but nobody but your own team sees anything happen so obviously the board of directors is gonna get suspicious of why they should give you anymore money on this project.

Either show something to non-patreons or stop thinking that people are haters when they have literally seen nothing for the past 3 years and clearly feel that nobody should give you money when it is a legitimate feeling.
 

ThatWeirdGuyWithaWeirdHat

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Lol so butthurt. Sorry but taking too long IS a legitimate complaint. Also since you love making your progress reports completely patreon only guess what. NOBODY sees that anything is happening and the last thing they've seen is 3 years ago.

If you're so adamant that your project is great then show SOMETHING to non/past patreons without having to give you anymore of their hard earned money. It's like working on a company project but nobody but your own team sees anything happen so obviously the board of directors is gonna get suspicious of why they should give you anymore money on this project.

Either show something to non-patreons or stop thinking that people are haters when they have literally seen nothing for the past 3 years and clearly feel that nobody should give you money when it is a legitimate feeling.
What he means, Eromancer , is that when it takes you nearly half a year to make a post to the public like this:

Hey guys!

We’ve obviously been quiet for some time in the eye of the public, but rest assured we’ve been chugging away and are making great progress. There are a lot of big plans on the horizon that will greatly improve Malise and the Machine, and I wanted to stop in and say I’ll be making a lengthy public post detailing these and our accomplishments from the last few months as soon as there is a confirmed date for v0.06.
It gets people uninterested. And do you really think people would pay any kind of hard-earned money just to see a few 'progress updates'? If you're having trouble, come right out and say it. Don't hide your progress behind a pay wall, or people will get mad and think you abandoned the project no matter what you say. Now I don't personally think this. If you think you're going at a good pace, I don't give a shit. The problem is that you're keeping your fans in the dark and telling them, "Give me money and then you can see what I'm working on." People don't pay for word of mouth updates, they pay for a product. And until you give them proof that the product is being worked on, you will continue to get people like miachan , Androsar , and nanaya1234 to try to devalue your work.
 

Serifyn

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Unfortunately, skepticism is going to be applied to any project associated with Patreon, i think the multitude of past failed projects previously funded by that platform have earned it. MATM looks fantastic, but some people have been contributing for around 2 years and you still don't have a functioning demo for the new engine yet, let alone anywhere close to a completed game. If you don't see an issue with this i don't know what to tell you, this is your first project on Patreon and it could have (and probably should have) been a stepping stone, not your magnum opus.

Ever more ambitious projects have a bad reputation of collapsing under the weight of the expectations you put on yourself and expectations from your contributors. While i seriously hope you can put it all together and create the game you've promised, history says that projects like this have a propensity to abruptly fall apart and make past contributors look like fools for crowdfunding in the first place. All you've really proven thusfar is that you can put a pretty nice demo together and there isn't a whole lot of good faith going around right down due to the dismal failure of Divine Arms.
 

censuur

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Right, I was kind of done replying to this thread and just adopting a wait-and-see attitude but this just demands a response.

Anyone with an ounce of sense can see you're throwing bullshit numbers out there to try to prove a point, yet I'm the one pulling a veil over your eyes? Eh.
Apt, but anyone with an ounce of sense can also see you're ignoring legitimate arguments and issues to reply to easily dismissed drivel.

I'm spending approximately a thousand dollars a month over our Patreon income currently by funding the remainder of our costs out of my own pocket. That's a pretty terrible scam. Obviously, I have enough faith in myself and my team to be digging into my own pocket. That being said, I guarantee I could show you an itemized list of our expenses and you'd choose to ignore it because you're only here to complain.
I've spent years researching the behavior of con-men and their victims, this claim is so ridiculously common I'd almost expect to find it in some con-men pocket book. It comes down to the unsubstantiated claim of "I'm the real victim here, I've spent my own money!" and then "I could provide proof which costs me nothing, but some people wouldn't believe me so I'm going to be pointlessly spiteful about it!" You have no legitimate basis to withhold evidence here, you're either spiteful or you do not have what you claim here.

I'd really love to be more open on this forum as I used to be, but when all you guys do is spew paranoid delusional garbage and hate on Patreon do you really have to question why I've chosen to not share things publicly until we can show off the new playable version? Heck, even after the release we'll certainly have some of you coming at us with 3rd grade "math" trying to tell us we'll fail.
Just an utterly dishonest claim, hiding behind extremism and people understandably losing faith after more than a year of sweet fuck all, and nothing but similarities to previous failed Patreons and outright scams, you've done little but make promises you failed to deliver on, the last one going several months back where you simply promised a kind of progress report that never really arrived. Take some god damn responsibility for the massive mistakes you've been making if you want any kind of sympathy here, because the source of the negativity is ultimately your mismanagement of your project.

It's obviously been way longer than intended for this upcoming release to happen (and that does suck, and I really am sorry things didn't work out as simply as I'd envisioned), but that's not a signal that we've only completed a small amount of work. You guys are the ones that choose to believe that, whereas my active patrons on here who see our current work defend us and lend evidence to the contrary. Our work simply hasn't converged into a playable experience that merits releasing yet (though, we're approaching that point).
See, this is not taking responsibility this is making excuses, it comes down to "sorry not sorry and you should feel bad for not being able to wait more than a year on nothing but promises that something is coming after an unforeseeable amount of time. Where the fuck do you get off buddy? Telling people that they are being impatient after all this? Your active following defend you? Well whoop-die-fucking-doo, I've seen people scammed out of thousands of dollars over the course of years blindly defending the people that scammed them, that's hardly a commendable trait you're advertising here. The claim that your work simply hasn't converged into a playable experience is just moving the goalposts away from your complete and utter lack of a decent plan or schedule and the communication thereof. Again, take some actual fucking responsibility for your side of things.

Other Patreons have done this right, why the fuck cant you? And how the fuck do you get off blaming your audience for this shit?

Also, I'll be glad once we're in the new engine and the whole stigma around the "how long can an RPG Maker game possibly take?" thing can be dropped, since there are apparently still people who think the production of this project is on a similar scale to any random RPG Maker game.
Now here's a complaint I simply have not seen. It's also completely nonsensical and a ridiculous strawman at best. You haven't gotten to the point where people can wonder about how long an RPG maker game can take, and people have expressed no dissatisfaction with RPG maker or content made in it, so where the fuck are you even getting this? You had to look this hard for an argument you could beat? This is just ridiculously dishonest. In a thread filled with legitimate complaints about your work pace, your output, your communication and lack thereof, your constantly breaking your promises and making claims that are demonstrably false, this is something you dredge up to round out your post? Really?

Translation: Step off and let us do our work, haters. For everyone else: if you liked our old demo, come see all the cool stuff we're working on now on Patreon as our next playable version comes together. Otherwise, chill out and wait for all the new stuff to hit forums / our tumblr / blogspot as soon as we're ready to show it off.
Now you can fault me for being overly cynical here, but it's rather striking that out of the few times you show up here it's to fix your bait.

Yup, sooner than that!
Sooner than what? 6 months? Great, so to those wondering when to expect anything tangible out of you beside a single render in 12 months, just wait anywhere between now and 6 months, hell "sooner than that!" even! You have had over 12 months to produce something like a development plan, a schedule, a timeline, anything to show people that not only are you putting in work and things are getting done, but you have some idea of what you're doing and what it takes. All you've shown instead is that you appear to have NO plan, NO schedule, NO idea of what you're doing and the time it takes to get it done, and expect people to hold out for some result in good faith.

But no, clearly the problem here is just people being negative.
 

Damoriva

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I get the feeling if this keeps up the thread's gonna be locked. Or someone will get reprimanded by a mod. Or both.
 

mayaktheunholy

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I didn't want to get involved in this, and don't take this as a personal attack, but I have to call you out on this one, man:
I'd really love to be more open on this forum as I used to be, but when all you guys do is spew paranoid delusional garbage and hate on Patreon do you really have to question why I've chosen to not share things publicly until we can show off the new playable version? Heck, even after the release we'll certainly have some of you coming at us with 3rd grade "math" trying to tell us we'll fail.
Open like you used to be? You've ignored people's legitimate concerns and questions since the beginning. And on the rare occasion you can be bothered to respond, you are dismissive. You even flatly ignored people who PM'ed you offering to help when a simple "no thank you" would have taken all of 5 seconds to type and send. Not to mention you almost immediately hid the demo and information behind a paywall. Anyone who's been watching since the beginning knows that is not something recent. Is it really any wonder people in the community are being negative and skeptical?

And even if you feel put off by this community, you could have updated other public venues like your blog or tumblr. I'm sure you're busy with the kind of workload you have for this project, but it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to make a blog and/or tumblr post with some kind of information for the public, *something* to show you actually care about your players. Just posting for your patrons is only going to reassure the people who are already paying, it won't do anything to attract new patrons. It will in fact do the opposite, as you should be able to see from this thread.

And again, don't take this as a personal attack. Provided you aren't a scam artist (which I have no opinion about at this point), I would like to see this project succeed as much as anyone. Hell, most of the people complaining would too.

To put it another way, if people are coming into the thread to voice their concerns, it means they are interested. You could at least give them a little information as to why things are taking so long. If potential new players come in and see that you ignore or dismiss players' concerns, they aren't going to be likely to want to give you their money.

EDIT: To clarify, I don't mean ignoring the patreon hate train. At some point all you can do is ignore that argument since both sides just regurgitate the same arguments over and over. I mean people with legitimate concerns and questions.
 
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alias34

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If you've got stuff to show that could end public suspicions, poll your Patrons on whether you can release it or not. I get that you need to keep incentives in play, but if everyone but the Patreon circlejerk perceives the game as dead in the water its not going to help your project either. Its up to you whether you want to disregard non-patrons or not, but then don't be suprised if people call the project a scam, how are they supposed to know any better if nothing substantial is ever extended to them? Especially if you're being so defensive about not showing anything. You can't really shame and intimidate people into not suspecting you, that doesn't work. It only really makes them more angry and suspicious, rightfully so.
In case you're going to argue that non-Patrons opinions on the project don't matter since they've contributed nothing; I could understand if you were to say that due to the constant tension between you and them, but even then its terrible publicity, turning off potential patrons and turning suspicion into rage.
Well, this is all presuming that this whole thing isn't a scam that hasn't produced much beyond the initial pitch, which I find increasingly unlikely.
 
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Eromancer

Eromancer

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I've spent years researching the behavior of con-men and their victims, this claim is so ridiculously common I'd almost expect to find it in some con-men pocket book. It comes down to the unsubstantiated claim of "I'm the real victim here, I've spent my own money!" and then "I could provide proof which costs me nothing, but some people wouldn't believe me so I'm going to be pointlessly spiteful about it!" You have no legitimate basis to withhold evidence here, you're either spiteful or you do not have what you claim here.
Hah, alright guy. Here you go:

I obviously redacted the names, and I censored the payments to developers who I didn't get permission from to post their earnings.

In total I sent my team $8002 for their work in October. I haven't taken a paycheck for months, not even for living expenses. It may come to you as a surprise that real talent costs a pretty penny. Most of the remaining costs were assets, which you'll find in that list. I'm sure though that people like you will just say something like it's photoshopped, or the earth is flat and everyone is against you, or whatever.

The real giveaway that we have nothing to hide though is the fact that people who do contribute and see our work don't come back here and say "these guys are doing nothing, they are con artists." Like I said, the evidence there points to the contrary. The only valid complaint (aside from mayaktheunholy here, who is apparently unhappy I didn't respond to a PM at some point -- and I'm sorry man) is that the decision was made that a major foundation overhaul of the project was necessary, resulting in us being unable to get a playable version out in the expected time. I totally own that. I take responsibility for it. But I still believe it was the best course of action to make the game as good as it can be.

The fact of the matter is that if you're someone who both likes our work and actually wants to help our project succeed, then you'll have no issues with contributing instead of sitting here degrading us and asking me to reiterate what I've already posted on Patreon. Like I've said all along, once we have a sure-fire release date for v0.06 we will be showing off all sorts of stuff. So, the least you could do until then is not make up garbage data in a poor attempt to call us a bunch of thieves and liars.
 
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Eromancer

Eromancer

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If you've got stuff to show that could end public suspicions, poll your Patrons on whether you can release it or not. I get that you need to keep incentives in play, but if everyone but the Patreon circlejerk perceives the game as dead in the water its not going to help your project either. Its up to you whether you want to disregard non-patrons or not, but then don't be suprised if people call the project a scam, how are they supposed to know any better if nothing substantial is ever extended to them? Especially if you're being so defensive about not showing anything. You can't really shame and intimidate people into not suspecting you, that doesn't work. It only really makes them more angry and suspicious, rightfully so.
In case you're going to argue that non-Patrons opinions on the project don't matter since they've contributed nothing; I could understand if you were to say that due to the constant tension between you and them, but even then its terrible publicity, turning off potential patrons and turning suspicion into rage.
Well, this is all presuming that this whole thing isn't a scam that hasn't produced much beyond the initial pitch, which I find increasingly unlikely.
If it means people choose to be angry, that's fine. As far as I'm aware I'm the only one to take a stand against the absolute abusive behavior people spew towards developers simply because they choose to earn a living while doing what they love.

EDIT: Also, there's a video a couple pages back that I feel serves as a limited but pretty good indicator that we've been working our asses off. I'm not sure if you guys missed it or if you're angry that it's not enough or something, but here it is again:
 
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censuur

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First off let me make one thing clear. I have no hard judgement whether or not you're running a scam, my prerogative here is that if you set yourself up to look like a duck, walk like a duck and quack like a duck you have absolutely no right to call other people out on treating you as if you were a duck. People are rightfully skeptical not because they're being mean or negative, but because you've failed to communicate for well over a year, repeatedly. I won't claim you deserve outright scorn for the disastrous PR you've done over the last year, but you're mad if you don't think the criticisms you're getting are unjustified.

Hah, alright guy. Here you go:

I obviously redacted the names, and I censored the payments to developers who I didn't get permission from to post their earnings.
I'm not sure what to tell you here, this is a list of transactions that's true, but you claimed to have an itemized list and this hardly fits the bill. Now, you actually came out and took a step in the right direction and I'm not so cynical to dismiss this outright, but if this is the best you can do then you were not wrong in thinking people were likely to dismiss this. Anyone can look at this and be no better off in understanding where the money went. Personally, I'm satisfied, but then my concern about this Patreon was never outright malice, it was ineptitude (and given how you've handled PR, can you blame me?).

In total I sent my team $8002 for their work in October. I haven't taken a paycheck for months, not even for living expenses. It may come to you as a surprise that real talent costs a pretty penny. Most of the remaining costs were assets, which you'll find in that list. I'm sure though that people like you will just say something like it's photoshopped, or the earth is flat and everyone is against you, or whatever.
There is no need to be petty, I'm well aware that my grasp on the situation is simple at best (which is why me and others are asking for more information, after all) but I do understand the difficulties in hiring and retaining people in that industry, and how expensive consistent quality can be. On the flip side, these issues also mean you need a solid plan to make sure you don't run into trouble, and it's the lack thereof (or lack of communication thereof) that has people worried. I also doubt anyone worth considering will assert that your list is fake, I understand the worry there, but you need to ease up a bit. I'm certainly not the only ex-Patreon supporter here (and yes, of your project) that simply lost faith due to how little was shared, this time last year you mostly talked about how the work you were doing was going to accelerate your overall output which was followed by long periods of silence. You lost me, and presumably some others, during that time.

The real giveaway that we have nothing to hide though is the fact that people who do contribute and see our work don't come back here and say "these guys are doing nothing, they are con artists." Like I said, the evidence there points to the contrary.
Except quite a few people in this thread are ex-supporters who came in and said "They don't seem to be doing anything" myself included, and while it's easy to read over the part that says "seem" that remains a vital sticking point. Lack of progress made me stop supporting you, your previous statement is outright false. While there are quite some chaps here that will actually claim that you're running a scam, the important takeaway is that your communications with the public has broken down to such a degree that a large number of people wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the project collapsed on itself. While I'm glad you're finally taking some time to address these concerns your attitude is going to cause more problems (you're being far too cynical, for starters, we're not here sitting around waiting to flay you)

The only valid complaint is that the decision was made that a major foundation overhaul of the project was necessary, resulting in us being unable to get a playable version out in the expected time. I totally own that. I take responsibility for it. But I still believe it was the best course of action to make the game as good as it can be.
Honestly, not at all. The main valid issue is that a complete overhaul is rarely justified and even more rarely works out, we have literally decades of examples in software production where one overhaul leads to the next, and the next, and the next, and a disaster. People have every reason to be worried about this sort of thing, especially when an overall lack of coherent planning seems evident. Much worse in that, however, is just once again the complete lack of communication, and when you did get around to it there was far too little, far too late, and you really need to start playing catch-up here. You can fix this, it's not going to be trivial but it really isn't too difficult either. Give us some kind of schedule, a timeline, a projection of what you've done so far and what you're planning in the near future. Consider using the same method as the developers behind Subnautica (a project that has had several overhauls and major delays, but have been largely clear in what is going on and what they had done)

So, the least you could do until then is not make up garbage data in a poor attempt to call us a bunch of thieves and liars.
I actually agree here, making shit up or over-dramatizing things serves no purpose, and while I hesitate to point out the irony in how you've been arguably making up garbage about the people here it simply must be stated that there is no real reason for it. You can feel free to ignore excess heckling and fantastical bullshit, but don't use that as an excuse to blow off legitimate concerns. Really though, I can't state this enough, you need to do something about your PR, if it's not your forte or you find yourself struggling then get help from any of the number of supporters that'd likely be more than willing to assist.
 
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Eromancer

Eromancer

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First off let me make one thing clear. I have no hard judgement whether or not you're running a scam, my prerogative here is that if you set yourself up to look like a duck, walk like a duck and quack like a duck you have absolutely no right to call other people out on treating you as if you were a duck. People are rightfully skeptical not because they're being mean or negative, but because you've failed to communicate for well over a year, repeatedly. I won't claim you deserve outright scorn for the disastrous PR you've done over the last year, but you're mad if you don't think the criticisms you're getting are unjustified.
That's the problem. There is abundant evidence that proves otherwise. Three to four Patreon posts a month. You are actively choosing to believe otherwise simply because you don't want to support the project, and instead choose to harass us and sling false accusations.
 

ThatWeirdGuyWithaWeirdHat

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Once again: No matter what you say people will get mad and think you abandoned the project because you've hidden all of your major progress behind a pay wall and are only giving the general public indefinite and seemingly empty promises. People want to see what is being worked on so that they know what they could be giving their money to. If you were to just remove the pay wall, I can almost guarantee that you'd have more patrons.

With this pay wall, people will think you're being stingy and greedy with outsiders and will get turned off into giving you money.
 

censuur

Tentacle God
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Jun 24, 2010
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That's the problem. There is abundant evidence that proves otherwise. Three to four Patreon posts a month. You are actively choosing to believe otherwise simply because you don't want to support the project, and instead choose to harass us and sling false accusations.
How about actually reading the post you're replying to, rather than just making shit up to your own convenience. You've addressed none of the points raised and are once more beating up a strawman of your own making that has no relevance or bearing to this discussion. Are you really this hopeless? Shall I just give up and let you wallow in the quagmire of your own making? Do you just have no interest in solving the problems you've created and prefer to just swat at phantasms for your own satisfaction?
 
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