What's new

A Response to Nunu’s Guide to Getting You Dateless Bastards a Girl


Host

Lurker
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
1,765
Reputation score
135
So, those of you who’ve read Nunu’s primer on dating, allow me to present something of a 180 on the topic. (Feel free to call it the Evil counterpart to Nunu's tips; I'd get off on it)


I’m going to have to begin at something of a tangential direction to my point, but bear with me.

Societies: They are best thought of as unique organisms from the people that make them up. It can be argued that a society does good in a number of ways; bringing people together, sharing, etcetera, etcetera. One thing that is largely indisputable about societies, however, is that they are self-serving organisms which inevitably hammer all their constituent people into a similar mindset. The media produced by a society will inevitably focus around championing certain values and demonizing others; most-all fairytales and stories for children show this quite distinctly – and it is during childhood that the vast majority of social conditioning occurs.
Humans are born as animals, with animalistic, self-serving desires; a society, however, requires self-sacrifice and other conformities that go against the mindset humans are born with. Between parents, media, and schools, human children are bombarded with things designed to mould them to have certain beliefs about good, evil, life, etc. Probably the most obvious place is in gender differences; while it is by no means true, every single person is quite aware that a stereotype exists where women like the colour pink, are emotional, and go shopping, while men like blue and are strong and unemotional, etc. They may not believe the stereotype, but they know that it exists, and were at some point – probably in their childhood - introduced to it.

Of course, my point isn’t about societies, or whether or not they are good or bad – all I want you to take away from this is the belief that “a society will attempt to force a set of values on people”. This key idea underlies almost everything that I am about to speak on, hence my mention of it.

One of the values that society likes to enforce on people is to do with love, which brings me to the actual point of this thread. Nunu was quite good with picking out various plausible deviations from the traditional definition of love within Nunu’s analysis – swingers, friends with benefits, one night stands, etc… but there was one viewpoint completely in opposition to the whole of the techniques in the thread... and completely unrepresented.

There is a lot of mysticism surrounding ‘love’; true loves, soul mates, and other, similar loads of absolute horseshit. One of these ideas is the idea that love between two people who have sex is deeper, different, and better than, say, love for your family, or friends. Society hammers this home into all humans, and few seem to actually escape the conditioning. Some intensely lucky people, myself among them, either fail to take to this ideology, or manage to lose it as they age. To you, my fellows, I say: Fistbunp. (To everyone else, please imagine my derisively mocking laughter.)

In actuality, the non-sex parts of the traditional idea of ‘love’ is just a form of strong companionship and compatibility – not in the bedroom, but as people. Love between people that are married and/or have sex is no greater than the love between any other two people who are around each other enough, and enjoy each other’s company. (Note that compatibility in the bedroom can enter into the equation for couples that do engage in intercourse, but my point is that deep and meaningful love does not require the bedroom, or traditional ideas of romantic love, to enter into the equation at all.)
In these non-traditional cases of love, TV Tropes calls the phenomenon “Platonic Life Partners”, or “Heterosexual Life Partners” for the same gender. There isn’t any sex, romance or marriage involved in the relationship, but damn if you wouldn’t go to the ends of hell to help the person, or wouldn’t be as crushed if you had a falling out with them.
If you don’t, or can’t, believe or understand this concept, you probably won’t get much out of the rest of this post, though there may be one or two things of importance to you.


The traditional idea of love can effectively be broken up into two basic desires; the desire for deep, meaningful companionship, and the desire for sexual gratification. In both cases, there is a better way to satisfy the respective desire than becoming romantically involved with someone. I use “better” here in a largely hedonistic, path-of-least-resistance sense – the less effort you expend for the same degree of gratification, the better. Traditional love also has a third aspect, typically called romance; this romance is an exceptionally bad, artificial desire.

When you think of romance, you think of candle-lit dinners and being taken to exotic places and flowers and dating… and all of those other, out of your way courting exercises used to show that you have an interest in the person. And this is what romance effectively boils down to: courting. Society triumphs romance, preaching romance as being a good thing, effectively the physical expression of love. The main issue here is that romance is actually the journey, and love is the conclusion. Once the courting has finished and the relevant parties are in love, and secure with being in love, the need for courting – and thus romance – ceases. There is a common saying, something along the lines of “the journey is better than arriving”: unfortunately, this also applies to finding a partner. It is all too easy for a person to become addicted to courting and romance, leaving them severely disappointed when all is said and done, and real-life must be gotten on with again.
This desire for romance is artificial, constructed by societal beliefs rather than being intrinsic to the human condition, the way the desire for sexual gratification and human companionship are. As I believe someone famous said, ‘love does not require grandiose gestures’; a person must fall in love with you, not the attention you lavish on them. As Nunu points out, of course, you do need to pay attention to them and interact with them… but I stress that, even if you do not follow or believe the rest of my response, even if you follow Nunu’s guides, please: do not try to inject romance into your courtship. It will not always turn out badly (– in the same way that raping a person will not always get you arrested -) but it should not be necessary in the first place.

For the first of the two –actual- desires fulfilled by the traditional idea of love, I’ll start with the simple matter of sexual gratification. Nunu’s guide points out at several points, and rightly so, that there is a great deal of effort and discomfort in courting, regardless of whether you are after sex of love – and that sex itself can potentially be daunting, stressful, and even at times unfulfilling. You know what a much simpler and quicker way to get sexual gratification is? Given the forum we’re on, I honestly shouldn’t need to tell any of you the answer to this one, but for clarity: I’m talking about masturbation. Porn(/hentai), your hand, toys, vegetables if you’re feeling particularly kinky – all of these things and more can satisfy your sexual desire… potentially far better than any other human could.
There is no little debate about whether sex with another human feels better than masturbation of any sort; personally, I suspect that there really is no significant difference between the two. One way or another, however, the debate is irrelevant; whether or not masturbation feels better, it is undeniably able to satisfy the desire for sex – and that is all it needs to do. Even if I was to assume that sex felt like one thousand masturbation-orgasms, you cannot miss something you have not had. Why should anyone get themselves addicted to sex with other people, when masturbation is able to fill the exact same function, with mountains less effort?

If you are one of the unfortunate people claimed by an addiction to actual-sex; by all means, follow Nunu’s guide to finding one night stands and partners willing to have sex with you, and know that you have my deepest pity. (If you also believe that love and sex are inseparable, then I’m now both laughing at you and pitying you, just for clarity.)

The second aspect fulfilled by traditional love is companionship; to be with someone you love, talking with them, having fun with them, so on, so forth. I personally would debate whether this is a normal human desire, rather than one imposed by society, as there are some people who do not seem to have any desire for human companionship – however, for the purpose of this post I’ll continue under the idea that a person has an intrinsic need to be around and interact with others. Obviously, having a significant-other would fill this need, giving you someone to interact positively with. But, again, as Nunu points out, getting a partner is an excessive amount of trouble that is certain to cause a little emotional distress, and quite likely to cause a lot more than that.

Thankfully, there is a solution. Back in those school days, when society was hammering values into you, there would have been one other thing happening as well – you would have been gaining friends. Friends who, hopefully, held similar interests to you, friends who you bonded with to varying degrees. You may have lost some, you may have gained some. You may even have a good, strong and open relationship with your family members (in the sense of what you can talk about, not in that way). One thing is certain: at this moment in time, any human being reading this post is very likely have at least one good friend. This may even be a person that you’ve never seen, but instead a screen name and avatar that you speak to – there’s quite probably at least one person on this very forum you like platonically, or possibly even consider a friend.
Regardless of where you find them, if you do not already have someone you love platonically, and feel that you want someone, they aren’t hard to find – and certainly far easier than trying to find a romantic partner. Effectively, follow Nunu’s guide; start out by expanding your relationship with compatible friends you already have, then failing that enter hobby circles; make yourself stand out to an extent, focus on one target who best fits what you’re looking for in a life-long friend, don’t be afraid to change targets… basically, just ignore everything about being friend-zoned, sex, cheating and flirting, and you have a good guide to attaining a deep attachment to somebody.


Now, I understand that most people in society have ended up with the idea that love must be romantic, and that they need a romantic love, and will feel unfulfilled without one - in much the same way that you might feel unfulfilled if you couldn’t take a date to the prom, or if you didn’t have a good car, or if you didn’t have designer clothes. Unfortunately, the fact that this is a childish, trumped-up societal desire rather than one your mentality probably needs is irrelevant; a lot of people have spent so long under a certain idea of what love is or what you need in order to be happy that they will feel a strong desire for a romantic partner, and cannot simply be happy with platonic love and self-gratification. If you are one of these people, than I am sorry. If you want to satisfy that need, you will have to head off into the war of hunting down a romantic partner willing to spend their life with you, and all the inevitable emotional turmoil that entails. To everyone else, I hope I have presented, as the old movie dictates, the only winning move: a way to not play the game.




P.S. An additional, often overlooked benefit to having a Platonic Love, is that you will have a good defence should we ever be attacked by the Bydo. *Rimshot*

EDIT: Forgot to mention, feel free to post in this thread. I wasn't sure if Nunu had any reservations about the same, hence its creation.
 
Last edited:

Nunu

Despot
Former Admin
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
3,806
Reputation score
312
Re: A Response to Nunu’s Guide to Getting You Dateless Bastards a Girl

I believe i asked for feedback but this is fair enough, your own work is substantial enough (although sin is the true arbiter of such things).

Starting with romance, does it matter if something is artificial? if you can derive pleasure from it why not do it? This is a similar argument i use against people who oppose valentines day because it is an invention of the corporate industries. I don't care where it came from or who is profeting off it, i enjoy giving people presents and making them feel special so i'm going to take this chance to do it (people who demand things for valentines day though i will purposly not give anything to out of spite, i don't appreciate people demanding my affection).

I suppose i didn't really cover platonic love in my guide, there was an assumption that the involved parties would have sex. Although with little imagination many of its themes can apply to just making freinds as I believed that that was one of the most important parts of choosing a partner, that you could be friends with them. If you can't stand someones company, you shouldn't be around them regardles of whether you are swapping fluids.

As for masturbation being a suitable substitute for sex, well masturbation can feel as good as or better than some sex (and so much easier in every regard). There will always be something missing though that makes sex with another person feel better, the knowledge that there is a person there willing to lay themselves bare and please you. If you can get by on just masturbation fantastic, good for you, I'm sure at some stage in the future I will have to as well. Anyone (or damn near) can subsist without sex, but that doesn't mean that would make them happier.
 

Sinfulwolf

H-Section Moderator
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,983
Reputation score
434
Re: A Response to Nunu’s Guide to Getting You Dateless Bastards a Girl

Masturbation is not a replacement for sex with another person. I cannot orgasm nearly as well from masturbation, no matter the technique I use, then if I have a decent sexual partner.

Sure masturbation can fulfill the base desire for sex in that moment, but not nearly as effectively as sex. Oftentimes I finish masturbating only to still feel horny because I haven't had that satisfaction as of yet.

If you firmly believe that masturbation is a more effective or equally effective form of sexual gratification, then I am laughing at you mockingly and pitying you (You did it to anyone that doesn't happen to follow your beliefs to the T, so it's only fitting).
 
OP
Host

Host

Lurker
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
1,765
Reputation score
135
Re: A Response to Nunu’s Guide to Getting You Dateless Bastards a Girl

Starting with romance, does it matter if something is artificial? if you can derive pleasure from it why not do it? This is a similar argument i use against people who oppose valentines day because it is an invention of the corporate industries. I don't care where it came from or who is profeting off it, i enjoy giving people presents and making them feel special so i'm going to take this chance to do it (people who demand things for valentines day though i will purposly not give anything to out of spite, i don't appreciate people demanding my affection).
Ah, now, it assuredly would not matter if the romance itself was artificial, in the 'valentines day' sence.

However, it is not romance itself that I claimed is artificial, but the desire for and requirement of romance; in essence, my argument is that "the idea that you must engage in grandoise gestures to court someone, is wrong".

The issue that I have with engaging in romance is not simply that it is unnessesary, but that it is intensely risky as well; you are in essence giving them more attention than you would normally do in order to make them feel special, and this may give them a distorted perception of who you are, as well as an increased expectation of affection - one that you very likely will not be able to perpetually meet.

Now, addmittedly, I was being overly critical of the idea when I wrote it; in reality, you may very well still have a good, lasting and loving relationship after romantic courting - and there may also be some capable people who are able to keep the romance up after the courting ends.

The problem is that there seem to be a rather large number of people who try to fall in love and simply don't know anything about what they're doing - presumably, partially why you felt the need to write the guide in the first place. One of these things that people seem to oh-so-often overlook is the fact that being in-love and being in-courting are entirely seperate things, thanks primarily to the difference in romance. Far too many people seem to become enamoured with romance, leading to perpetual unfulfillment in all romantic endeavours as soon as the courtship ends. Most people who follow TV can tell you that a series will stay in near-perpetual, 'will-they-or-won't-they' with charater relationships... simply because the courtship is interesting, while the actual being-in-love is comparitively plain.

That said, I have to in-general reverse my position on the issue. If you can romance responsibly, go for it - just know what the potential issues are.

I suppose i didn't really cover platonic love in my guide, there was an assumption that the involved parties would have sex. Although with little imagination many of its themes can apply to just making freinds as I believed that that was one of the most important parts of choosing a partner, that you could be friends with them. If you can't stand someones company, you shouldn't be around them regardles of whether you are swapping fluids.
Indeed to all acounts.

As for masturbation being a suitable substitute for sex, well masturbation can feel as good as or better than some sex (and so much easier in every regard). There will always be something missing though that makes sex with another person feel better, the knowledge that there is a person there willing to lay themselves bare and please you.
Agree to disagree there. While sex no doubt feels different on several emotional levels than masturbation, and while these emotions can lead to greater (or potentially lesser) fulfilment, they rely on you to feel bad about not experiencing them during masturbation - which I suspect can be negated by decent mental control. It's amazing what the human mind can do with an understanding of doublethink - or even without it, see: lovers of guro, scat. Not having experienced it personally, of course, I cannot say anything for sure.

If you can get by on just masturbation fantastic, good for you, I'm sure at some stage in the future I will have to as well. Anyone (or damn near) can subsist without sex, but that doesn't mean that would make them happier.
Thanks on the first point, though sorry to hear that on the second, as it doesn't sound like good news (unless it is?). The third point is effectively where our philosiphies differ: Yes, some people will be less happy without sex, and I'm not going to say they should remain chaste; by all means, procreate. But for the others who are quite happy without touching groins to another human: don't be suckered into the idea that you need sex simply because other people tell you that you need sex. If your hand is fine too, don't feel the need to find a mate just because life has told you that it's what's nessesary. Evaluate it, and if it's not something you actually want, don't bother with it.

Masturbation is not a replacement for sex with another person. I cannot orgasm nearly as well from masturbation, no matter the technique I use, then if I have a decent sexual partner.

Sure masturbation can fulfill the base desire for sex in that moment, but not nearly as effectively as sex. Oftentimes I finish masturbating only to still feel horny because I haven't had that satisfaction as of yet.
If technique fails, perhaps there's a toy that'll work? (Oh, that's not creepy at all.)

Kidding aside, there are far too many questions that would need to be answered before your claim could really be considered in full. For instance, did you masturbate before you first had sex, were you able to masturbate more successfully before you first had sex, how frequently do you have sex, how frequently do you masturbate - and multiple others that it's not worth getting into, because in the end, you are only one bit of sample data on a topic regarding purely mental feelings. Opinion is fairly divided on this topic, and I doubt even a full scientific investigation would properly resolve it.

If you firmly believe that masturbation is a more effective or equally effective form of sexual gratification, then I am laughing at you mockingly and pitying you (You did it to anyone that doesn't happen to follow your beliefs to the T, so it's only fitting).
Given that I take pride in living a lifestyle typically referred to as 'having no life', you are far from the only one to mock and/or pity me on a wide variety of topics. I don't exactly hold it against you. :rolleyes:
 

Sinfulwolf

H-Section Moderator
H-Section Moderator
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
6,983
Reputation score
434
Re: A Response to Nunu’s Guide to Getting You Dateless Bastards a Girl

Yeah, not answering all those questions for you. I'm open and all... but yeah no.
 
Top