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Female Heroine with Love Interest Not NTR? Is it Possible? Discuss.


Aesthetic

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I was talking with a friend online, and he was describing a project that caught my attention.
Friend usually doesn't mess with NTR but this game sounded suspiciously like NTR.

After the discussion I have come to the conclusion that you can't have a female protagonist game, with a male love interest that doesn't have NTR.

I mean I haven't seen one, though I guess I don't really spread out much. Wondering how you guys feel.
Is it possible to have an h-game with a female protag, and a male love interest that doesn't have NTR?

Well I guess "can't" is too strong a word. I mean you technically "can." But normally if you want the protag to have a lot of sex with the monsters of the world or anything of that nature, it's impossible.
 

raxim

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It’s very rare and it’s usually mutually exclusive with the monster rape games. There are some like and but the heroine has to not be fucked by anyone else as a rule. Heroines who get raped rarely get shown to have a nice romantic end with a guy later (with explicit sex). Hell, even games with consensual sex usually portray the heroine as liking sex rather than liking the guy.

Personally, I would love the heroine to have a male love interest and not have NTR (or maybe avoidable NTR). It would make the heroine seem more like a person and not like a sex doll.
 

Strange

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I probably don't understand the question.
For me, NTR means 'willingly and purposedly hurting someone who is emotionally attached to you'. Usually an unconditional no-go for my tastes.

I think you and your friend have different definitions of 'NTR' and 'love', is all. Share your espective definition, you'll understand the misunderstanding.
Specifically: - can you love someone, but have consensual sex with another?
- is it NTR to have sex without ill intentions towards the 'love interest' you're referring to?

I don't understand how gender is relevant here in any way, either. Man, woman, goblin, LGBT, tentacled aliens, isn't it all the same plot-wise?
Not to mention, female-on-top, and sexually aggressive/hungry females are a thing, even more so in fiction.
Think a scenario like:
- female MC loves H-Kun. For some reason she can't satisfy H-Kun. Or H-kun is cursed, or she knows she can't 'capture' H-kun who already has a harem or smt.
- female MC goes on a quest, involving sex (to gain sex experience, to uncurse H-kun, to unlock her chastity belt or to slay the demon lord who shrinked H-kun's wee-wee, whatever)
- win the game = get H-kun's heart
There's technically no NTR here, since female MC did everything for H-kun's sake, and she couldn't have got H-kun without going through these steps first. It's the intent that would count, if I'm not wrong.

Alternatively, 'virgin runs' like raxim alludes to, also exist. That's about the only way for me to enjoy games that are heavy on non-consensual. You usually get the 'challenge' part of the game, but obviously much less H. Ruins Seeker is a good, recent example (though 'love interest' is debatable here).

Also, traditional, old-school dating sims usually have one route per target. I don't really remember True Love or Fate:Stay Night to be NTR; you have sex with other heroines, but the final one doesn't really care. There's no reason it would be any different with a female Emiya Shirou-chan.

PS: simply define the terms you're using. People tend to throw around these new words with different meanings attached to them (/snip rest 'cuz rants. Examples are probably too plentiful to be necessary)
 
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habisain

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It's not that rare actually, but I don't think many people would be here would be looking in the right place. Otome hentai games often feature a female protagonist, male love interests and no NTR (or monster sex). if you want to have a look (not all female protagonist). However, this forum typically discuses the niche of hentai games oriented towards men, not the adjacent smaller niche of hentai games oriented towards women.
 
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Aesthetic

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It’s very rare and it’s usually mutually exclusive with the monster rape games. There are some like and but the heroine has to not be fucked by anyone else as a rule. Heroines who get raped rarely get shown to have a nice romantic end with a guy later (with explicit sex). Hell, even games with consensual sex usually portray the heroine as liking sex rather than liking the guy.

Personally, I would love the heroine to have a male love interest and not have NTR (or maybe avoidable NTR). It would make the heroine seem more like a person and not like a sex doll.
Doesn't Rune's Pharmacy have gangbang scenes? She switches around between dudes pretty often man.

I probably don't understand the question.
For me, NTR means 'willingly and purposedly hurting someone who is emotionally attached to you'. Usually an unconditional no-go for my tastes.

I think you and your friend have different definitions of 'NTR' and 'love', is all. Share your espective definition, you'll understand the misunderstanding.
Specifically: - can you love someone, but have consensual sex with another?
- is it NTR to have sex without ill intentions towards the 'love interest' you're referring to?

I don't understand how gender is relevant here in any way, either. Man, woman, goblin, LGBT, tentacled aliens, isn't it all the same plot-wise?
Not to mention, female-on-top, and sexually aggressive/hungry females are a thing, even more so in fiction.
Think a scenario like:
- female MC loves H-Kun. For some reason she can't satisfy H-Kun. Or H-kun is cursed, or she knows she can't 'capture' H-kun who already has a harem or smt.
- female MC goes on a quest, involving sex (to gain sex experience, to uncurse H-kun, to unlock her chastity belt or to slay the demon lord who shrinked H-kun's wee-wee, whatever)
- win the game = get H-kun's heart
There's technically no NTR here, since female MC did everything for H-kun's sake, and she couldn't have got H-kun without going through these steps first. It's the intent that would count, if I'm not wrong.

Alternatively, 'virgin runs' like raxim alludes to, also exist. That's about the only way for me to enjoy games that are heavy on non-consensual. You usually get the 'challenge' part of the game, but obviously much less H. Ruins Seeker is a good, recent example (though 'love interest' is debatable here).

Also, traditional, old-school dating sims usually have one route per target. I don't really remember True Love or Fate:Stay Night to be NTR; you have sex with other heroines, but the final one doesn't really care. There's no reason it would be any different with a female Emiya Shirou-chan.

PS: simply define the terms you're using. People tend to throw around these new words with different meanings attached to them (/snip rest 'cuz rants. Examples are probably too plentiful to be necessary)
I've actually very rarely scene NTR be used that way "willingly and purposedly hurting someone who is emotionally attached to you"
Netorare means taken away in japanese.

So if a guy gets Netorare'd it means their heroine was "taken" away. Doesn't matter if the heroine chooses to do so or not.

I can understand your example having grey spots like that. Honestly even if the MC is fine with his girlfriend fucking a bunch of monsters/strangers I'd still say it's NTR, since that's what NTR-play is. While browsing novel updates I found a novel where a guy prostitutes out his girlfriend who he is in love with to other dudes. The girl loves him back and the title is something like me and my girlfriend have a fetish for NTR.
EDIT:

Anyways, after discussing with my friend it seems like he agrees it's NTR, but since it's a bad end, he doesn't care too much. As long as playing the game legitimately gets adult stuff happen that isn't cuckoldry he'll be fine with the game.

It's not that rare actually, but I don't think many people would be here would be looking in the right place. Otome hentai games often feature a female protagonist, male love interests and no NTR (or monster sex). if you want to have a look (not all female protagonist). However, this forum typically discuses the niche of hentai games oriented towards men, not the adjacent smaller niche of hentai games oriented towards women.
Ah yeah I should've said excluding otome games. I'm a guy so 0 interest in that.
 
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raxim

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Think a scenario like:
- female MC loves H-Kun. For some reason she can't satisfy H-Kun. Or H-kun is cursed, or she knows she can't 'capture' H-kun who already has a harem or smt.
- female MC goes on a quest, involving sex (to gain sex experience, to uncurse H-kun, to unlock her chastity belt or to slay the demon lord who shrinked H-kun's wee-wee, whatever)
- win the game = get H-kun's heart
There's technically no NTR here, since female MC did everything for H-kun's sake, and she couldn't have got H-kun without going through these steps first. It's the intent that would count
I would love a game like that. Especially if we get to see H-kun fuck the shit out of the heroine with his new big dick. But we dont get any English games like that. At best, we get a fairytale no sex romance end if we do a virgin clear. I don’t like that you have to get a virgin clear for the romance end.

Doesn't Rune's Pharmacy have gangbang scenes? She switches around between dudes pretty often man.
There is a chain of sex scenes where she fucks the glasses guy who she flirts with but it’s only available is she is a virgin at that point.



It's not that rare actually, but I don't think many people would be here would be looking in the right place. Otome hentai games often feature a female protagonist, male love interests and no NTR (or monster sex). if you want to have a look (not all female protagonist). However, this forum typically discuses the niche of hentai games oriented towards men, not the adjacent smaller niche of hentai games oriented towards women.
I like games like that but the good ones don’t get translated. I’ll check out the article for any good explicit ones.
 

Strange

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I've actually very rarely scene NTR be used that way "willingly and purposedly hurting someone who is emotionally attached to you"
I'm using the other party's perspective. The more popular way to put it would be, "getting hurt by the one you love".
Both sentences say the same thing about the same situation, just different POV.
From what I thought I understood, Netorare emphasize on psychological weakness/harm. Kinda like these cheap novels, telenovelas and reality shows.
I used that as my definition, because it makes NTR bring something new to the table, compared to the old-fashioned, yet accurate "cuckold".

I've been meaning to reassess "wth is NTR supposed to mean??" for a while, so I'm taking advantage of this thread to do so, to be honest... (a kind of know-what-you-hate process)

Netorare means taken away in japanese.
So if a guy gets Netorare'd it means their heroine was "taken" away. Doesn't matter if the heroine chooses to do so or not.
This is exactly what 'cuckold' means: "brought to shame by adultery" (yeah, the 'shameful' part got kinda old, nowadays)
I don't get why one would use 'NTR' if it's just a synonym.

I found a novel where a guy prostitutes out his girlfriend who he is in love with to other dudes. The girl loves him back and the title is something like me and my girlfriend have a fetish for NTR.
That's called swinging, or partner swapping/sharing. Perhaps with a touch of voyeurism, exhibitionism and/or masochism along the way.
Again, I don't understand. Neither the point of using 'NTR', or what makes that scenario more or less netorare-y than plain old cuckoldry.

he agrees it's NTR, but since it's a bad end, he doesn't care too much. As long as playing the game legitimately gets adult stuff happen that isn't cuckoldry he'll be fine with the game.
Now you've lost me completely...
I'll keep quiet ('cause I must sound like I'm either dumb or baiting) and read the rest, hoping for some light to be shed.


Ah yeah I should've said excluding otome games. I'm a guy so 0 interest in that.
You'd be surprised. That's coming from someone with a similar lack of interest in ponies and rainbows. I can't remember any right now, but I did stumble upon 1-2 good ones
 
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Aesthetic

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This is exactly what 'cuckold' means: "brought to shame by adultery" (yeah, the 'shameful' part got kinda old, nowadays)
I don't get why one would use 'NTR' if it's just a synonym.
Isn't it the same as paizuri vs boobjob?
Like NTR is the Japanese equivalent.

I don't think there's a need to complicate the definition especially when there are use-cases like the web novel I linked to.
 

Strange

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Well, no. Swinging (the novel's synopsis) and cuckoldry (one-sided cheating) are two very different things.
One implies mutual consent and no harm, the other can be as bad as voluntary intent to hurt/shame.

Isn't it the same as paizuri vs boobjob?
Again, no. But excellent example!
Japan's most common view on Paizuri is "man lying down, hips raised, with the woman's hips below his".
In western countries:
A titjob is usually "man standing or sitting straight, woman kneeling or standing" - ie bodies usually standing +/- upright
A titfuck is "woman in missionary, man sitting on her stomach" more often than not
[edit/ as a clear example of where's the issue:
in a Japanese male MC battle-fuck game, when MC is attacked by paizuri
-> it is natural for the japanese that the MC is somewhat pinned and cannot move his legs, much less stand
-> westerners would naturally imagine MC can just push off the attacker, since they picture MC standing]


I do agree they all end up the same way: pearl necklace, facial, etc. But they're obviously different. Not so much as with my NTR dilemna, but the cultural differences are just too much to be ignored.
No one wants another confusion on the scale of the awful "lo*is vs lo*itas", right? (let's not debate over that)

To me, it sounds the same as "Apples and pineapples? No difference, they're both fruits."

edit: I think I'll stick to this guy's definition:
Amongst all the nonsensical crap I could read, buried in diverse misconceptions, that is the most sensible opinion I could find...
 
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Tokita

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There is a chain of sex scenes where she fucks the glasses guy who she flirts with but it’s only available [if] she is a virgin at that point.
Does she have an ending with him?
 

raxim

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Does she have an ending with him?
Yes, but it is not implemented in the fan translated English version. I think maybe it is implemented in the updated Japanese version but I am not completely sure.
 
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Aesthetic

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Now you've lost me completely...
I'll keep quiet ('cause I must sound like I'm either dumb or baiting) and read the rest, hoping for some light to be shed.
The game's content isn't ALL NTR. It's mostly normal.

You'd be surprised. That's coming from someone with a similar lack of interest in ponies and rainbows. I can't remember any right now, but I did stumble upon 1-2 good ones
I have no problem with generally effeminate things. I watch Star vs the Forces of Evil, and read light hearted manga like Komi-san.
Otome games are about playing through the perspective of a girl and convincing various men to fall in love with you, where the art focus is on hot guys.
I'm a guy and I don't want to role-play a girl that's trying to make different guys fall in love with her.
That's called swinging, or partner swapping/sharing. Perhaps with a touch of voyeurism, exhibitionism and/or masochism along the way.
Again, I don't understand. Neither the point of using 'NTR', or what makes that scenario more or less netorare-y than plain old cuckoldry.
It's got NTR in the title tho
 
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Strange

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It's got NTR in the title tho
Politicians often have 'democracy', 'honesty', 'no corruption' in their speeches' titles... Need I say more?

Since I doubt many will read the article I've linked to (it's over 5 lines long), here's a TL/DR definition of NTR (putting netorare and netori in the same bag, and barring a few exceptions):
- 2 protags love each other and are in a relationship
- 1 of them falls out of love with the other, and falls in love with a 3rd

One of the Otome games I was trying to remember is Gainax's Princess Maker. Not exactly Hentai, but I was referring to this kind of games. Whether MC is in love with his non-blood related daughter, and what kind of love it is, is left to the player's imagination.
 

Strange

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It's come to my attention there are, supposedly, different types of NTR (thanks to / because of this thread: https://ulmf.org/threads/gani-ntrhausu-rj257752.13346/ )
And that vnbd actually explains different 'types' of NTR

Well, I have my definition now, and next time I criticize improper tagging, at least I'll know what I'm talking about.
Sooo I'll bump this no more. Promise.
 
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