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Sarpe666

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Speaking of which what do you intend to do with Lenny? He's just standing there with nothing to say. If I had to guess by the tone of the game he's either gonna find an opportunity to betray Sienna or he'll end up sacrificing himself for her to atone for his deed.

I have to admit I love the half-cost accessories but not everyone needs them. Nadie and Valerie come to mind. Since the accessories seem to be so rare you should make one for each of the party members that covers the areas where they're weak and buff the areas where they shine, kinda like the personas that get reborn when you reach lvl10 rank with their respective social links. And of course they should be either guarded by really tough bosses or crafted with hard to get materials. And of course they should be optional.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Speaking of which what do you intend to do with Lenny? He's just standing there with nothing to say. If I had to guess by the tone of the game he's either gonna find an opportunity to betray Sienna or he'll end up sacrificing himself for her to atone for his deed.
I'll give Lenny some extra dialogue for when he's in there. He will still offer hints and helpful advice, despite his situation. I don't want to reveal too much about him, but I will say that everything he's done has been because he wants to help himself.

I have to admit I love the half-cost accessories but not everyone needs them. Nadie and Valerie come to mind. Since the accessories seem to be so rare you should make one for each of the party members that covers the areas where they're weak and buff the areas where they shine, kinda like the personas that get reborn when you reach lvl10 rank with their respective social links. And of course they should be either guarded by really tough bosses or crafted with hard to get materials. And of course they should be optional.
I'll probably have weapon upgrades for everyone at some point, but it's still a ways off and I'll probably save it for the final chapter of the game. There will be multiple rare accessories that protect against all status ailments, but with different bonuses. The hidden fairy chests will likely contain rare artifacts for even more choices. Those would be ideal for fairy (or even for Kendra) specific equipment or parts to make them.
 

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Ok so I got home and tested if the letters appear and they do. The new party member as is now seems rather useless other than acting as a meat shield. You should consider the traditional law for party members that join your party which states that their level should be the arithmetic average of the levels of your party members rounded down of course.At least that's how it is in Final Fantasy games I guess. Anyway, he works, he levels and that's pretty much it.

I assume you made it impossible to interact with Kendra on purpose. And that's about it for now. I need to get some sleep since I'll be on another 24h shift tomorrow.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Ok so I got home and tested if the letters appear and they do. The new party member as is now seems rather useless other than acting as a meat shield. You should consider the traditional law for party members that join your party which states that their level should be the arithmetic average of the levels of your party members rounded down of course.At least that's how it is in Final Fantasy games I guess. Anyway, he works, he levels and that's pretty much it.

I assume you made it impossible to interact with Kendra on purpose. And that's about it for now. I need to get some sleep since I'll be on another 24h shift tomorrow.
Thanks for testing the letters. Kendra just doesn't have any dialogue yet.

As for their levels, I'm not really sure about it. The quest experience is supposed to get them out of noob zone, but I should probably funnel exp to them in other ways. I'm sure I'll think of something, whether it's more quests and/or rewarding quest exp for completing chapters and completing boss rooms.
 
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Sarpe666

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

I'm not sure of the inner workings of VX but I used to watch speedruns namely those 2 famous SDA marathons AGDQ and SGDQ. They talk about the inner workings of the games they play and that's where I heard something like that about FF4 or FF2 as it was known in the US.

As for the new guy's level I don't think you really have to worry about it if there are new areas to explore after you get him in the future. I had some leftover slimes on Emerald Palace 3F and the guy gained 2 levels in 4 or 5 fights. I was just surprized he came with absolutely no skills. Even Dillion had a few skills. I guess you're not done with him yet and didn't decide what sort of skills you'll give him.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

I'm not sure of the inner workings of VX but I used to watch speedruns namely those 2 famous SDA marathons AGDQ and SGDQ. They talk about the inner workings of the games they play and that's where I heard something like that about FF4 or FF2 as it was known in the US.

As for the new guy's level I don't think you really have to worry about it if there are new areas to explore after you get him in the future. I had some leftover slimes on Emerald Palace 3F and the guy gained 2 levels in 4 or 5 fights. I was just surprized he came with absolutely no skills. Even Dillion had a few skills. I guess you're not done with him yet and didn't decide what sort of skills you'll give him.
Yeah there will be about 19 more levels in the next chapter so that should give plenty of opportunity to level him up.

I'm not sure about skills for him yet but they won't require any magic. Speaking of which, I'm sure some players might experiment with giving him magic so I'll probably implement a safeguard that converts his magic into vigor points.
 

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Or you could change those orbs into physical+magic attacks like what Valerie has. But that's up to you.

Anyways what exactly is so special about mushroom that made you say it's the best end-game use item? Is it the tonics? Or the Puddings? I only needed them in the tower when health is not that high and the action-related bosses are sorta difficult at least they were for me. Speaking of which you're really forgiving with some of the boss fights when Sienna dies during the fight. Once she dies take the player back to the title screen. No retries without penalizing the player.

Also make sure by the end of the game players can obtain enough orbs to activate everything for all the party members. One of the greatest games I ever played suffers from this and the only way to get the last upgrade orbs for your weapons is to have them dropped by common enemies in the last dungeon. I'm talking about Secret of Mana of course.

One more thing that popped in my mind but I'm not sure if it's possible. It would be nice if you could add a line in the game.ini file where you could set your own resolution. Fullscreen is nice but those black borders are just bleh. I really hate games that can't fill the screen.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Or you could change those orbs into physical+magic attacks like what Valerie has. But that's up to you.
That is an interesting idea, and would work well in regards to balancing the different characters.

Anyways what exactly is so special about mushroom that made you say it's the best end-game use item? Is it the tonics? Or the Puddings? I only needed them in the tower when health is not that high and the action-related bosses are sorta difficult at least they were for me.
I only mentioned them because of the shrome candy.

Speaking of which you're really forgiving with some of the boss fights when Sienna dies during the fight. Once she dies take the player back to the title screen. No retries without penalizing the player.
Do you think I should do this with every boss fight? Including the multiple fights after the flashbacks? (but with full party recovery between fights of course).

Also make sure by the end of the game players can obtain enough orbs to activate everything for all the party members. One of the greatest games I ever played suffers from this and the only way to get the last upgrade orbs for your weapons is to have them dropped by common enemies in the last dungeon. I'm talking about Secret of Mana of course.
There will be unlimited ores in the final chapter, plus the crystal tree I mentioned earlier for gems. This should allow players to craft a bunch of experium to make upgrade orbs. I'll also be giving a LOT more upgrade orbs as there will be plenty of boss fights to come (those 19 levels I mentioned, will all have a boss on each level).

Plus I intend to have respawning mobs at the end that drop a number of rare goodies, including upgrade orbs. That sounds a lot like Secret of Mana though. Is that a bad thing to have at the end?

One more thing that popped in my mind but I'm not sure if it's possible. It would be nice if you could add a line in the game.ini file where you could set your own resolution. Fullscreen is nice but those black borders are just bleh. I really hate games that can't fill the screen.
I'm not sure if I can do anything about that.
 

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Well if you think that the shrome candy is so valuable as well as the other puddings the mushroom trades you you really should consider redoing his exchange mechanic. Again I will point out that Sienna is on a time limit amd getting candy and pudding really is tedious the way you get it now. I understand he's the game's Grumpy Cat and all but a selection menu like when you make experium would be a lot better in my opinion. If you can stop time during those events though. You can still have him kick you out after you exit the menu for laughs and giggle but trust me exchanging 70 Fairy Milk like I did with the current settings is a pain. You should of course leave this change for maybe the last or 2nd to last update before you think the game is ready.

Nope, no full party recoveries between the flashback fights. Looking back, the player has a shit-ton of time resources and orbs at his/her disposal before getting to that part to prepare. It's normal to die in games like this. After all the game is part jrpg. Plus it would make no sense story-wise to have a full heal between fights. Not to mention you have save points before every boss and recovery orbs. Now that's already something you don't get in every jrpg. So I see no reason to offer a retry without penalty.

The problem with Secret of Mana and the upgrade orbs was that it was extremely tedious. First of all if I remember correctly the enemies that were supposed to drop said orbs had a spell that nullified damage entirely (Light Barrier it was called I think) second the effects of the spell would last quite a while. Third the hitboxes in that game were horrible and so was hit detection combined with lag that made the hits register 2-3 seconds after you hit your enemy. Fourth the enemy had low chances of dropping a treasure box which is how drops were obtained. Inside that box there would be I think 3 possible items. One was an equip, one was a recovery item and finally the orb which had the lowest % to drop I can't really remember how much it was. And to top it all off people who dug into the game's code found out that the orb was not even originally intended to be dropped by any kind of monster and ended up there due to programming errors. Everyone who has ever played this game can figure out why something like this happens in the game. The second half of the game seems extremely rushed getting the key items needed to progress the story is extremely easy in areas devoid of enemies or other obstacles until you get to the final dungeon. The game feels clearly unfinished. Now if you're gonna have optional upgrade orbs at the end of the game make it so that the players work for them but not via tedious grinding. I suggest maybe a boss ganulet? You know like re-use previous bosses but make them stronger and more resilient and at the end of a series of fights the player is rewarded with X# of orbs. That seems the simplest way to solve this issue. But you're the game designer, you may have better ideas than me. Also just for the record what I recommend is not always the best thing for the game and what I like may not be to others' liking either.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

- shrome candy - exchanging 70 Fairy Milk - is a pain. You should of course leave this change for maybe the last or 2nd to last update before you think the game is ready.
That sounds good. Besides I may even implement an entirely different method of getting those items and/or other uses for the ingredients.

Nope, no full party recoveries between the flashback fights.
Okay I'll see to changing it at some future point. As you said though, a lot of players have different preferences AND I have had multiple complaints in the past about the game being too hard. Namely though, I think it was about my boss battles. The bat in particular would previously kill Sienna in just one hit.

Anyways, I may change it such that every retry costs you an upgrade orb, and there's a LOT of upgrade orbs you get at the end of that chapter. I used a similar system with the big zombie battle.

- upgrade orbs -
Ah, well what I had in mind for the respawning enemies at the end probably won't be tedious then. Certainly nothing as annoying as what you mentioned about Secret of Mana. I probably never even knew about that item. xD

It's a ways off though so I still have a lot of time to think about it. It may even end up that there are too many upgrade orbs and respawning enemies aren't even necessary. If that's the case then I'll have them drop random rare crafting ingredients or such.
 

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

I honestly don't remember fighting any bat in this version and if people complained about 1-hit kills you'll get more complaints. If I remember 3 of the cloaked guys can kill you in 1 hit. Trees crushing you, spinning blades slicing you to pieces and I don't remember the 3rd one. But 1 hit kills are still there. I presume the scorpion in the cellar is the same. I honestly don't see a problem with 1 hit kills or maybe people just aren't patient enough. I died countless times to the cloaked guys the corpse guy, the mine cart lizards even the big guy where you're in a mine cart but that didn't make me want to quit the game or say that it's too hard. Even in places I said it's too hard, it's not. I just wasn't prepared.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

I honestly don't remember fighting any bat in this version and if people complained about 1-hit kills you'll get more complaints. If I remember 3 of the cloaked guys can kill you in 1 hit. Trees crushing you, spinning blades slicing you to pieces and I don't remember the 3rd one. But 1 hit kills are still there. I presume the scorpion in the cellar is the same. I honestly don't see a problem with 1 hit kills or maybe people just aren't patient enough. I died countless times to the cloaked guys the corpse guy, the mine cart lizards even the big guy where you're in a mine cart but that didn't make me want to quit the game or say that it's too hard. Even in places I said it's too hard, it's not. I just wasn't prepared.
It was the action sequence back in The Dungeon, fairly early on. The one where you dodge the sonic attacks while powering up the fans.

Nobody has ever complained about the wizards so I left them as-is. I usually only nerf a boss if there are multiple complaints. The giant skeleton at the beginning of The Crypts had some complaints, but it was mainly due to players not knowing if they were doing the right thing or not (he didn't have the lit boss flames back then). I never nerfed him though, as it was rather complicated and I'm quite proud of his AI. lol

I enjoy a tough challenge myself but sometimes I go a little too far. :D
At some point when the game is complete I will probably have a hard difficulty, where all the bosses can kill you in one hit and health is severely reduced.
When players complete it on hard difficult I could reward them with an extra story scene or maybe even another boss fight. x]
(It would also be fun to force players to take ALL of the bad traits, and get no upgrade orbs for doing so, when choosing hard difficulty).
... and maybe even only allowing saving the game where Sienna sleeps and eliminating all recovery orbs. But maybe that would be too hard. xD
 
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Sarpe666

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Ah now I remember the bat. I asked about the fan of blades still intact here.

The more I think about it what you described doesn't seem that extreme. The bad traits aren't all that bad but not giving any of the good traits is going a little too far. As for saving only where Sienna sleeps I don't see it as a real problem nor having recovery orbs before each boss fight. You get a spellstone back in the tower and life and magic essences are plentiful. The downside is that it would be annoying to die during the boss battles. 70% of the time in my playthrough I had no idea Light Locks acted as teleporters as well and you said the enemies get turned into experium statues if the light lock activates before you kill everything? I haven't seen it in my playthrough. Or does it work only in some areas? I'm pretty certain I turned on the lights in one of the penitentiary levels and the enemies were still prancing around the level alive and well. I can't say anything for the rest since I always cleard the floor of enemies before activating Light Locks.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

The more I think about it what you described doesn't seem that extreme. The bad traits aren't all that bad but not giving any of the good traits is going a little too far. As for saving only where Sienna sleeps I don't see it as a real problem nor having recovery orbs before each boss fight. You get a spellstone back in the tower and life and magic essences are plentiful. The downside is that it would be annoying to die during the boss battles.
I could alternatively reduce the effect of all the good traits by half. :D

I think the biggest issue with the boss fights is the dialogue. I believe most players would appreciate a "skip scene" option. I'll try and implement that at some point.

70% of the time in my playthrough I had no idea Light Locks acted as teleporters as well and you said the enemies get turned into experium statues if the light lock activates before you kill everything? - Or does it work only in some areas?
Ah, sorry about that. I should probably give a better indication that lightlocks can be used to teleport.

The lightlock statues will turn enemies into experium in the following areas: The Dungeon, The Crypts, The Vinery, and The Hollows (excluding the rare Blackwood Succulent, as they are considered too powerful for the spell to effect them).

This was primarily done because several players complained about the large number of enemy groups in those areas (The Crypts in particular). I implemented this system and reduced the number of enemy groups by 50% in all 4 primary areas as well.

There was some concern that players were missing out on experience when solving the lightlock too early, but the implementation of the flare spellstone seems to have solved that particular issue. Or at least, I haven't received any negative feedback on it. :p

Speaking of which, I'd love to get feedback from more players. I often feel "in the dark" about what players are enjoying and disliking about the game.
 

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Yea that would be nice. Where's all your fans? I'm really curious about other opinions on the game and what you should change. Aside from adding more h-content. That's all I've seen. Which to be honest for me is not really all that important. I like this game for its diverse gameplay and story rather than its h-content.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Yea that would be nice. Where's all your fans? I'm really curious about other opinions on the game and what you should change. Aside from adding more h-content. That's all I've seen. Which to be honest for me is not really all that important. I like this game for its diverse gameplay and story rather than its h-content.
I can only assume that most players are happy with the game (aside from the lack of h-content). Otherwise I wouldn't have any patrons. :p

I'm going to be commissioning Ikelag over the next few months for a few different Sienna/Seven scenes in The Tower.



Let me know what you think of his work. It's a bit more than Mavis ($50 for the initial Seven image, which is already done and in-game, and $35 for each additional one with Sienna added).

I would prefer Bebecake's style, but I'm not sure if she would be willing to draw such things. Here's one of her latest drawings:
 

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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Well Ikelag certainly has the type of art you need in your game, but bebecake's looks closer to what I'm used to seeing. I really shouldn't be judging artists honestly I've been spoiled with asian artists' works. And to be perfectly honest Mavis or Ikelag don't even come close to what I've seen so far. But bebecake looks promising I really like her style. Or maybe I'm just biased who knows :p
I'm pretty sure she could make you a pretty good looking Kendra and Jennifer.
Ikelag draws almost like it's 3D art. You know those awkward 3D vids that show lifeless puppets having sex with animation on par with Food Fight.
My honest opinion if you can convince bebecake to do your art stick with her, from what you've shown me so far she is the best.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

Well Ikelag certainly has the type of art you need in your game, but bebecake's looks closer to what I'm used to seeing. I really shouldn't be judging artists honestly I've been spoiled with asian artists' works. And to be perfectly honest Mavis or Ikelag don't even come close to what I've seen so far. But bebecake looks promising I really like her style. Or maybe I'm just biased who knows :p
I'm pretty sure she could make you a pretty good looking Kendra and Jennifer.
Ikelag draws almost like it's 3D art. You know those awkward 3D vids that show lifeless puppets having sex with animation on par with Food Fight.
My honest opinion if you can convince bebecake to do your art stick with her, from what you've shown me so far she is the best.
I know what you mean about Ikelag's work, but as with Mavis' work I tend to like some of it and dislike others. I'm also not thrilled with the pricing.
There are a few reasons I want to continue working with him. Bebe is currently doing other stuff, Ike's stuff makes good placeholders and matches Mavis' style to an extent, and I believe there are a number of Ikelag's followers that would like to see more of Seven (and especially the piece where Sienna is freeing her). I'm also REALLY curious about how he will draw Sienna as I don't recall seeing any wings in his portfolio (could be wrong).

Before I started commissioning Mavis I had planned on getting Adryn to do some art:

Sadly, getting a commission from them seemed nearly impossible. Some success at discussing a possible hentai animation, but that dropped off and later attempts at commissioning face sets I got no response to.

I actually like Bebecake's style better though, so maybe it was all for the best. :) I just wish I could squeeze more time out of her. lol

Bottom line is that anime/asian styled art is typically expensive, if you can even get an artist to give you the time of day. I feel very lucky to have Bebecake doing my art now, even if it could be a bit pricey. I think the quality is worth it. :)

Sometimes I will find an artist with a promotion ($15 or less) and commission them. Partly in an effort to get the FSA name out there.
Example:

If that were super tiny and had a flying animation it would make an adorable icon in the game. xD
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

While I have to admit that picture of Sienna is adorable I honestly can't see it put in the game. It just doesn't fit. Out of all the artists I've ever seen work of for your game UN_DO would probably be the best to fit the dark and gruesome tone of the game. Sadly I know that's not possible but hey a man can dream :p

Now this Adryn guy his art looks good but it's bland. It feels like it has no personal touch, no defining characteristic. It's as basic as a drawing can be. Done well but basic, it has no sparkle to it or something to make it stand out.

I was pondering who Seven is then I remembered. I also remembered there's an episode of Seinfeld entitled "The Seven". I think you can do better than George Costanza man. I'm curious how bebecake will do her since she seems like she draws furries. Mavis's rendition is not all that good. I honestly feel bad for not being able to offer him some praise...

Now one last thing that bothers me about the game. Out of all the quotes that can be found from various books or various websites on the whole internet, why did you chose bible verses? Is it because it's public domain and if you use someone else's quotes you have to pay for them? Why not something like the chapter number and a clever title for it like what Parasite Eve did. The game is split into 5 days each one describing in 1 or 2 words what the chapter is about. The verses aren't even legible with that font. I honestly tried to read them but I couldn't make out what each said before the text faded. And I'm sure by now you noticed I'm not a stranger to the English language I assume. Or hell why not a little narration of what happened in between chapters after all, years pass between the tower and the abyss chapters. I'm sure you can get a bit more creative than resorting to bible verses.
 
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Re: The Fairy, the Succubus, and the Abyss. Version: Abyss 0.72 (Updated Aug 9th, 201

While I have to admit that picture of Sienna is adorable I honestly can't see it put in the game. It just doesn't fit.
Well I would only entertain the thought as a small icon. Even then, the head is a little too strange.

Now this Adryn guy his art looks good but it's bland. It feels like it has no personal touch, no defining characteristic. It's as basic as a drawing can be. Done well but basic, it has no sparkle to it or something to make it stand out.
I see what you mean. I've also been told that his art is somehow put together using a set of different parts and pieces. Not sure if that's true but it kinda makes sense, seeing as how all the characters look remarkably similar.


I was pondering who Seven is then I remembered. I also remembered there's an episode of Seinfeld entitled "The Seven". I think you can do better than George Costanza man.
Just a little backstory:
A few years ago we took in a stray cat and she had a litter of kittens. We gave one away and another one died (not in that order). We named them all names that start with an S (Spooky, Smokie, etc..). I later named the one that died Seven, after the fact. I remember it had a black and white coloration, which is also why she has that type of coloration. So Seven's name is a slight homage to the one that died. If I ever get around to telling her story, then yeah.. her siblings will be based on my cats and their personalities and problems. xD

I'm curious how bebecake will do her since she seems like she draws furries. Mavis's rendition is not all that good. I honestly feel bad for not being able to offer him some praise...
I feel like he's a good 80%, based on skill, pricing, and time. My only issue right now is that he is rather obsessed with his comic and it's taking all his time. I can understand how he feels though. If his comic were more successful then he wouldn't have to do commissions anymore and could do his own thing.
I know I wouldn't want to work making someone else's game, because I have too many of my own ideas that I want to work on. I'm just selfish though. lol

Now one last thing that bothers me about the game. Out of all the quotes that can be found from various books or various websites on the whole internet, why did you chose bible verses? Is it because it's public domain and if you use someone else's quotes you have to pay for them? Why not something like the chapter number and a clever title for it like what Parasite Eve did. The game is split into 5 days each one describing in 1 or 2 words what the chapter is about. The verses aren't even legible with that font. I honestly tried to read them but I couldn't make out what each said before the text faded. And I'm sure by now you noticed I'm not a stranger to the English language I assume. Or hell why not a little narration of what happened in between chapters after all, years pass between the tower and the abyss chapters. I'm sure you can get a bit more creative than resorting to bible verses.
I'll see if I can't make them more legible. I honestly wasn't aware of the legibility issue. There is a reason for the quotes, and for The Bible being in the game. I'll make a note to use a different font and to extend the time they're on-screen.

Edit: One more thing I thought I should add. In-between The Tower and The Abyss chapters I did attempt to add some short epilogue thing, but it just didn't feel right. It felt forced, awkward, and slowed the pace of the game down. In the end I decided that the game feels more natural when everything has an obscure feel to it. Probably a good reason to NOT explain where Seven's name comes from in reality (which might just be "weird and awkward" now).
 
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