Patreon's new Community Guidelines.

[Serifyn]

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While the ULMF forums have been down some pretty significant stuff has been happening on Patreon, many Patreon pages such as the one for Eromancer's 'Malise and the Machine' were locked down, contributors such as myself have been unable to access their page at all. Eromancer has been in contact with contributors saying that he is in discussion with Patreon to get his page enabled again, starting with the pictures on the front page, however, based on the new 'Community guidelines' this may not be for the long term, here is the new Patreon policy on adult content.

[h=2]Adult Content[/h]
We ask creators to flag themselves as Adult Content if they create any content that has mature themes such as sexuality or graphic violence. When you are flagged as Adult Content your page is removed from our search. We also require that all public content on your page be appropriate for all audiences. Content with mature themes must be marked as a patron-only post.

We have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes bestiality, rape, and child exploitation (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors). This is true for illustrated, animated, or any other type of content. Patreon reserves the right to review and remove accounts that may violate this guideline. As a strong commitment to child safety, we will work with law enforcement whenever we come across child exploitation.

We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish content, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish content that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.

We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing this type of content, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.

Lastly, you cannot sell pornographic material or arrange sexual service(s) as a reward for your patrons. You can’t use Patreon to raise funds in order to produce pornographic material such as maintaining a website, funding the production of movies, or providing a private webcam session.

If you have doubts about whether to mark your page as Adult Content or not, we always recommend that you do so for the sake of precaution. This is especially important as Patreon welcomes different communities with different sensitivities. You can read more about the Adult Content flag

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.

There are many projects which are advertised here who use Patreon to fund their projects, these projects have a significant following and are some of the most significant English-speaking Hentai games there are, this is a serious blow to their ability to fund themselves, especially if Patreon decides to seriously follow their own rules regarding what they consider the 'glorification of sexual violence'. It may be past due for these projects to move on from Patreon because of this dubious statement, failing to adhere to these rules could potentially lead to a spontaneous shut down of the page which creators use to fund their projects, it may lead to a defunding on a project which is already underway, potentially forcing the creator to censor their own game in order to remain on Patreon.

This is completely unacceptable. Depictions of rape, incest, necrophilia and other 'fetish' content in animated or illustrated form is NOT ILLEGAL in most western countries, it is protected from prosecution in the United States by Freedom of Expression granted by the first amendment, any attempt to censor these works comes from the website owner itself, which means that it may be time to send Patreon a message by wholesale abandoning them as a service and seeking alternate methods of funding for current and future projects.

It should be noted that similar platforms such as Youtube are censoring certain perspectives and demonetizing the channels of people who they disagree (Politically) with, it seems to be a trend among these websites to censor their users and Patreon's new Community Guidelines seem to be a somewhat similar trend.

 

[Yoshiiki]

Uh-oh, Patreon decided to start shooting their own feet?
Well, color me surprised... And I wouldn't even be shocked if a big chunk of patrons money was going into NSFW stuff.
Alternative or a very strong message would be good. This is what happens when people start "ignoring" issues with hope those will go away. News flash: No, it won't go away.

Now, good question would be: How to gather enough people and create big enough backlash?

 

[Serifyn]

I think the answer is to use an alternative site which allows you to function unhindered without fear that Patreon will pull the carpet out from under you at any given moment. Crowdfunding has great potential, but Eroge is underground and misunderstood, in this age of persecution by rabid feminists, ofcourse something like 'Rape Hentai' will be restricted. Some people are incapable of separating the fantasy from the reality. The fact that 'animated/illustrated rape' was specifically mentioned is very concerning. I don't think we should be contributing to a website who judges you for your harmless fetish.

 

[mayaktheunholy]

And this is after specifically telling creators artistic depictions of bestiality were perfectly okay. Well, didn't take long for "we support artistic freedom" to go right out the window. Wonder who they got threatened by.
This is going to affect the SFM community, too, I think. Huge amount of animators using patreon. I wonder if they realize how much work it will be to "investigate" all of them?
Oh well, should make all the people who whine about patreon happy.
Hope they get sued for this shit, but not likely. No one has the balls to stand up to the moral police these days.

 

[shortbus]

I think they should be able to do whatever they want. Patreon sets its own rules and should be able to change them as they see fit. I would not be surprised if they turned around and just shut down all NSFW pages and made the content creators have to show that they were in compliance with the new guidelines in order to be reactivated.

 

[mayaktheunholy]

Wait a minute, think we are reading too much into this. After looking closer and checking a couple of patreons, what is happening here is just their policy towards *public posts* is being enforced more strictly, and this has no bearing on what can be posted for patrons only.

 

[Yoshiiki]

Wait a minute, think we are reading too much into this. After looking closer and checking a couple of patreons, what is happening here is just their policy towards *public posts* is being enforced more strictly, and this has no bearing on what can be posted for patrons only.

Are you sure about that?
Let's see:
"We also require that all public content on your page be appropriate for all audiences. Content with mature themes must be marked as a patron-only post."
So any mature themed contend must be patron-only.
Then we have this: "We have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes bestiality, rape, and child exploitation (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors). This is true for illustrated, animated, or any other type of content." and this "We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish content, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish content that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex."
"Patreon reserves the right to review and remove accounts that may violate this guideline."
It's enough to enforce their guidelines, be it for public or patron only content.
What they want is everything not PG13 to be hidden. Plus anything they do not like to be removed.
Example: I don't like futa, not my thing so I am removing it. Instead of how it should be: I don't like futa, not my thing so I am avoiding it.

Also, I don't believe that account "under investigation" is being reviewed, I would rather say it's just banned and they don't give a fuck. Only reason why not every account has been banned is because there are tons of those and they need time. Plus, if it's alongside their guidelines, they may skip it. I assume they just use keyword search to sift through all creators and then go on their page to see what's inside. As soon as they see anything they find offensive or not to their likening - ban... oops, sorry - "under investigation".

So if you are a creator, I suggest you hide anything mature related to patreon-only, then go through all your post and do simple search for keywords: rape, incest, bestiality and so on. Then you just remove those and go on until you are unlucky and get hit.

I think they should be able to do whatever they want. Patreon sets its own rules and should be able to change them as they see fit. I would not be surprised if they turned around and just shut down all NSFW pages and made the content creators have to show that they were in compliance with the new guidelines in order to be reactivated.

No, thousand times no. By letting them do "whatever they feel like" we are just proving that they can do whatever they want. This is not true. They should be bitches of consumers to a certain degree, not other way around. Just imagine what would happen if google decided to censor everything sex-related (or just went with patreon guidelines), just because they are a private company. All google searches, all dns, mails, everything.
There is a point where you either can't ignore shit anymore or you ignored it so far, you are way too deep in it.

Just an extra: I wouldn't mind some sort of 18+ warning and be done with it. It would be simple with that, content creator flags his site as NSFW, warning shows up and we are done.
But this? Pure censorship.

 

[Pervy]

All you got to do is put all adult pictures up for patrons only. There was a policy change about a week ago and everyone not realizing that got or is going to get in trouble.
I will agree that patreon has annoying double standards, hiding adult creators and having them limit the content you can show but .. *shrugs* what can you do. It's not like theres possible alternatives, I'd love for my fans to support me directly without the 8% Patreon cut, but the Patreon system works.

 

[mayaktheunholy]

Are you sure about that?

No, I am not sure. Just going by what I have seen so far. What we would need to be sure is input from someone who has been "under investigation" and actually dealt with Patreon's investigation team. Time will tell, in other words.

 

[Yoshiiki]

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Heh, today more "hardcore" porn, tomorrow - all porn. Then more stuff and more stuff and more.
It works in North Korea!
(If someone thinks this pisses me off, then yeah, it does)

 

[mayaktheunholy]

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Heh, today more "hardcore" porn, tomorrow - all porn. Then more stuff and more stuff and more.
It works in North Korea!
(If someone thinks this pisses me off, then yeah, it does)

Yeah, that article seems a bit ambiguous and contradictory. Seems like they are just trying to cover their asses in terms of what is publicly visible. Maybe Eromancer will let us know what is really going on?

 

[Pervy]

You're blowing this out of proportions. To be clear, I'm annoyed at it too and exspecially that 'commitment' nonsense article makes me sick to just read with how political it tries to be, but at the same time, as a H-game producer I don't want my payment platform to get in trouble for getting me moneys, so I endure it. Societal attitudes are the problem, not patreon.

 

[mayaktheunholy]

Looks like Eromancer is back up, he does explain a little bit what they had to change, does not sound good. I did ask him to stop by this thread and elaborate, but he's never bothered to respond to me before.

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[Eromancer]

So, overall it sounds a lot worse than it is. As far as I know no one was asked to change the content of their software. They are especially going after themes mentioned in the new guidelines, however enforcement seems kind of like a gray area. The biggest issue we've seen is inconsistencies between the different support personnel. It seems like some are harder judges than others. As far as I know however, no one has been permanently banned. They are pretty insistent that unless you're a terrorist (I'm 99% sure I read that exact line in an official message) they will continue to work with you to get your page in order.

In my personal opinion they are protecting themselves while doing as little damage as possible to creators. We do, after all, make up a significant portion of their business. That being said, the trajectory is worrisome (especially as they become less reliant on adult content for revenue) but not necessarily an eventual death sentence for adult games on Patreon. I'm personally going to start preparing contingency strategies though for funding in the event they continue to tighten the noose.

 

[Serifyn]

I know you've got more pressing concerns such as ensuring that you can continue funding (Your project is very much underway and from a contributer prospective, it is very exciting) but if i were you i'd be absolutely livid. You have a successful project which have brought in plenty of money and yet Patreon springs this shit on you out of nowhere and starts treating you like second class citizens. As mentioned in my opening post, nothing you are doing is illegal by US law and yet you are being treated like second-class citizens by a company who merely provides a platform for funding content we'd fund anyway despite which platform you used to gain funding. I know you have mentioned that you are looking at alternative sources of income in the event that Patreon does this again and shuts you down permanently, but after you finish the game i would do my best to find an alternative method for funding anyway to make a statement, i'd encourage everyone else in your boat to do the same.

And to any potential entrepreneurs out there, once again, content such as 'Malise and the Machine' is not illegal, yet it is being handled as though it is, i bet there are plenty of content creators out there who would love to express themselves freely without fear of being shut down at any moment by the Morality police, or ministry of truth council or whatever stupid oppressive shit Patreon is calling it.

 

[AngleBoi7]

Wait a minute, think we are reading too much into this. After looking closer and checking a couple of patreons, what is happening here is just their policy towards *public posts* is being enforced more strictly, and this has no bearing on what can be posted for patrons only.

That might mean "no more public versions" available on Patreon, which would be one hell of a blow to many developers avoiding NSFW forum, and that's more and more of them.

 

[Yoshiiki]

Someone somewhere mentioned

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, huh? As much as I love the name, it seems like much, much smaller and not known platform. Plus, unlike Patreon, sounds problematic for now for people from EU.
Also, from what I see, what's going on Patreon seems mostly related to banks and Paypal as they would be ones pushing their agenda and adding pressure. Not the first time.
But, it's good to know they actually review sites instead of just banning them, would mean that it's either big enough money flow or they aren't as retarded and want any money to flow in.

Yes, I am blowing it out, because I am annoyed with this shitty attitude of: company fucks with customers, "oh well, what we can do? Move along, let them fuck us like good fuck boys" - rinse and repeat.
So yeah, as soon as this problem dies out and people stop talking and move along, it's a loss and more shit is expected to come in the future. I am not saying that NSFW content shouldn't be marked in some way, but this could have been handled way better.

Disgusting, this is what it is.

 

[Serifyn]

After taking a quick look at Hatreon, i have two thoughts.

1. They have an incredibly short TOS, which seems to support all forms of speech, they make no mention of specific content that they do not allow as long as it isn't illegal, which obviously the content we're talking about isn't.

2. One quick look at 'Featured Creators' -- Alt Right News, The Daily Stormer, Richard Spencer. Jesus Christ, if you are trying to get lumped in with these people you are putting a gigantic target on your back. I can imagine the CNN headline now -- Animated Smut game associated with Neo Nazis. If you are trying to get actual senators to target your game or get your bank account on an FBI watch list there probably isn't a quicker way to do it.

What i envisioned was a website for crowdfunding specifically for legal adult content, since the Internet is 90% porn anyway i can't believe such a website doesn't already exist.

 

[AngleBoi7]

After taking a quick look at Hatreon, i have two thoughts.

1. They have an incredibly short TOS, which seems to support all forms of speech, they make no mention of specific content that they do not allow as long as it isn't illegal, which obviously the content we're talking about isn't.

2. One quick look at 'Featured Creators' -- Alt Right News, The Daily Stormer, Richard Spencer. Jesus Christ, if you are trying to get lumped in with these people you are putting a gigantic target on your back. I can imagine the CNN headline now -- Animated Smut game associated with Neo Nazis. If you are trying to get actual senators to target your game or get your bank account on an FBI watch list there probably isn't a quicker way to do it.

What i envisioned was a website for crowdfunding specifically for legal adult content, since the Internet is 90% porn anyway i can't believe such a website doesn't already exist.

Someone made a thread about this on F95zone...

So I did some digging around and found this. Please give feedback and any helpful info about them. I tried to avoid kickstarter like ones, due to wanting to be able to pledge monthly.

I would also like to note, this is not the next patreon discussion thread. This is a discussion on possible crowdfunding sites that could be used as an alternative.

Self Hosting

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Services

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that

 

[Yoshiiki]

After taking a quick look at Hatreon, i have two thoughts.

1. They have an incredibly short TOS, which seems to support all forms of speech, they make no mention of specific content that they do not allow as long as it isn't illegal, which obviously the content we're talking about isn't.

2. One quick look at 'Featured Creators' -- Alt Right News, The Daily Stormer, Richard Spencer. Jesus Christ, if you are trying to get lumped in with these people you are putting a gigantic target on your back. I can imagine the CNN headline now -- Animated Smut game associated with Neo Nazis. If you are trying to get actual senators to target your game or get your bank account on an FBI watch list there probably isn't a quicker way to do it.

What i envisioned was a website for crowdfunding specifically for legal adult content, since the Internet is 90% porn anyway i can't believe such a website doesn't already exist.

It may be because of my nationality, but... who gives a fuck about all those in point 2?

So I did some digging around and found this. Please give feedback and any helpful info about them. I tried to avoid kickstarter like ones, due to wanting to be able to pledge monthly.

I would also like to note, this is not the next patreon discussion thread. This is a discussion on possible crowdfunding sites that could be used as an alternative.

Self Hosting

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Services

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Fundable:

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Adult Oriented Material - Prohibited.
Indiegogo: Couldn't find anything specific.
Thrinacia: Seems more like a framework for crowdfunding platform.
Plumfund: Doesn't seem like it allows such, but can't find anything specific.