Reorganizing the Hentai section

Fenril

Grim Reaper
Jul 26, 2013
526
28
#21
Personally, I have no major issues, aside from one semantics issue. And that is how the word "ban" is used and the level of confusion it creates. Personally, when I hear the word "ban" I think of a more permanent basis, whereas "suspension" is a more accurate word for what actually happens around here. For example, it's not a 1 week ban for asking for a link, it's a 1 week suspension.
 

YummyTiger

Tentacle God
Feb 7, 2014
786
43
#22
Please, go through linked threads. Irony enough, all issues you guys pointed out in previous thread were already pointed out by me before new thread was made. That is enough of proof that you didn't even bother, since you (or others) didn't even mention that, meaning - didn't bother to even read a thread. That by itself gives a lot of ignorance on the topic.
Funny enough, I either participated in those threads, or have read through them numerous times. I guess I didn't even consider some of the points you are trying to make as arguments, because they didn't seem to even apply to complete/incomplete sectioning. I'll address them. Before that, I will reiterate that my original post was asking Darkfire what HIS interpretations of "good" or "success" was, as making any argument is pointless if I don't fully grasp the ultimate goal. Your threads do nothing to illuminate that point.


https://ulmf.org/threads/what-ever-happened-to-the-reorganization.11400/page-5
"Example two: We are dividing hentai games for Japanese/Non-Japanese. Since latter ones are smaller in number, we collect all data for threads related to those. Then we move only Non-Japanese to their own section. Bonus point of this is that with segregating, we can find out which one lack proper tag/name and add it in another query. Even if extra tags are created (P2P, F2P, etc) we can still add it as during segregation, we sort them into smaller groups for easier management later. Divide and conquer. "
We are not dividing hentai games by Japanese/Non-Japanese. To my understanding, and from what I am actually seeing, we are dividing it by Patreon/non-Patreon. There are non-Japanese games in the main forum right now.

https://archive.is/Btygi#selection-3203.0-3205.215
"First of all, that was the most common element I saw around threads related to this. I guess main part comes from the fact that there is a lot of finished games from Japan and not as much finished from west/russia/other."
This particular issue is BETTER addressed using a split by completion status, not by funding model. If you're arguing that having too many incomplete games in the main forum is a problem, then splitting by funding is a roundabout way of solving it when you could literally split by completion status.

(Not me) https://archive.is/XYTDz#selection-4993.0-4993.154
"Patreon threads are pretty much just used as advertising most of the time, with the majority of the game discussion held off-site behind a locked paywall."
I just haven't seen this in my experience. I have seen developers rushing and posting 1-2 word responses to get to 15 posts and them post to advertise their games. I've also seen that it was so obvious the community reacted and those posts were deleted. That seems like a good, rational response. Overwhelming Patreon advertising IS a worthy discussion point, but all those threads would migrate to an incomplete sub-forum in complete/incomplete splitting. Yet, all the methods we are discussing do little to alleviate the risk of advertisement spam, this just might move them into a sub-forum YOU don't care about.

(Not me) https://archive.is/vC1A1#selection-1667.1-1679.0
"Neither can you compare full on paysite models like DLSite and partially free patreon projects."
I am fully capable of comparing two games regardless of their funding model. Ultimately, if I download a game and have no idea if it is a Patreon game or DLSite game, does it really matter?

(Not me) https://archive.is/Btygi#selection-5057.1-5059.160
"Jap games and western ones are under different rules, im gonna say easily half of jap porn is rape content.
Most of the western world doesn't know how development works and many upcoming developers are flooded with a stigma against asking for money to develop a game."
I've been playing Japanese games since the C'sWares games from Himeya-soft in the early 90s. I've watched the Japanese industry progress in similar ways to the Western industry now. I enjoy good games, I'm not beholden to some idea that Japanese games are going to be inherently better. In fact, when I download most DLSite games, I am often disappointed by their brevity and lack of overall content. It's the same when I play Patreon games. Therefore, I always cringe when this type of argument comes to the forefront, there are quality games in both camps. I guess it can be a point to consider. I'd say language is the bigger deal, not overall quality, and even then, do you really make the main forum for Japanese games on ULMF which is a forum dedicated to one of the pioneers for Western hentai?

Also, this is your poll:
No choice to actually split games between crowdfunded and rest, meaning - mentioned preference can't even be visible in that poll - https://ulmf.org/threads/important-poll-on-how-the-forums-reorganization-should-go.12190/
However... closest choice: "Put all games into the same main forum, but tag all of them by completion, crowdfunded and genre" - 32% - And it is a winning option.
So, 32% say just leave everything together and tag it, and second place says break it apart by completion status. Are you really twisting that to suggest it supports this model? I'd argue the opposite.

I'll say it as clearly as I can. I don't see any evidence that the majority of ULMF users give a shit about how something is funded. They want to play fun games with a lot of content. The ONLY reason to split by crowdfunding model is to section off Patreon games to satisfy a vocal minority. Especially when splitting by completion status would adequately solve every issue you've brought up without overgeneralizing Patreon games in a negative manner. Finally, I disagree with your claim that this benefits Patreon developers by putting them in competition with their own. That's an ignorant view of marketing. Have you ever heard the saying that there is no such thing as bad press? That's because getting noticed is far more important than anything else. If the majority of users peruse the main forum and nothing else, the level of competition in a sub-forum is irrelevant. A complete/incomplete split would hurt incomplete games as well, but at least it would offer the incentive that if Patreon devs finish their games, they get access to the main forum.

In sum, if there must be a split of the main forum, I argue that it should be done by complete/incomplete games for the following reasons:
1. It is the best way to address both the surge in works-in-progress, and alleviate advertising threads.
2. It rewards western developers who finish games
3. It is a clear guideline and avoids the dilemma of DLSite games which setup crowdfunding for donations
4. It minimizes the number of overall threads in the main forum (even further than the current split)
5. It avoids splitting the forum up so much that it fractures the community (this is my fear with a genre split)
 
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Aug 29, 2016
910
93
#23
Some of the quotes were made by people supporting your idea and in general context, as a support for it.
You didn't even bother reading it again and completely missed everything, yes I am basing it one the fact of your lack of addressing it. This is how genuine whole adult game dev community is and this is a reason why people don't like/trust it and want it away or contained, me included (ironically, even if it will actually help them). Even for issue of stupid poll with my question of lack of choice you skipped it, even though the poll itself gained more votes since my last response.
Have you ever heard the saying that there is no such thing as bad press?
Yes there is. Doing bad press requires real skills as it has long term effects. You can use fingers on one hand to count big companies that were successful with it. That being said, if you only want for people to talk about you, then yes, this statement is true. If you want to have positive long term effects, then it is false.

We are done, even issue of people pursuing "only" main part of forum was addressed, you don't really care, you are just desperate, proven by one statement. This is not going anywhere, please continue this road and wonder why things go the way they go.
 
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YummyTiger

Tentacle God
Feb 7, 2014
786
43
#24
Is English your second language? I'm not sure if I've ever engaged in an online discussion with someone who simply talks around the actual point in this fashion. I mean, I even tried to put a clear, simple list at the end. I don't get it, it's almost like you don't understand what I'm saying. I definitely don't understand what the hell you're talking about in those threads. I read the posts, I still fail to see your logic in how a split based on completion was decided. Hell, I read them 3 freaking times, so if you're trolling me, congrats. It's like you just pretend that cohesive arguments were made, and say, "That's already been decided." I'm confused. I'm even more confused in how you've convinced yourself that the poll is favoring what you're saying.

I will say this. If your logic that Patreon developers would be helped by moving them all to a sub-forum were true, then English developers should do better on the English DLSite than on the Japanese site. That's not even close to true, in fact, western devs see far more sales when they offer the game on the Japanese DLSite as well--which is in direct competition to Japanese games. This point, and your point on threads being moved, were literally the only actual claims regarding this I've seen. I've addressed both.
 
Dec 30, 2017
100
28
#25
Here's a mock draft for visual comparison.

Setup 1:
  • Completed
  • RPG
  • ACT
  • Sidescrolling
  • Isometric
  • Visual Novel
  • ETC
  • Unfinished
    • RPG
    • ACT
    • Sidescrolling
    • Isometric
    • Visual Novel
    • ETC

Setup 2:
  • RPG
    • Completed
    • Unfinished
  • ACT
    • Completed
    • Unfinished
  • And so on.

Setup 3:
  • Unfinished
    • Unsorted wasteland
  • ACT
  • Sidescrolling
  • Isometric
  • Visual Novel
  • ETC

There's way too many ways to go about this but at least give some idea of a basic structure with regards to organizing the chaotic void we're dealing with now.
Again, the real question here is what makes the most sense VS what is most user friendly. You can easily fit a crowdfunded/nonfunded or patreon/Ci-en subforum in there as well.
Poll time? Professional examples from staff? :D
 

DarkFire1004

Tentacle Goddess of the H-Section
Staff member
Super Moderator
Nov 10, 2008
3,397
113
#26
Out of curiosity Darkfire, what are you looking for in these changes? You mention you are testing these systems out. What do you consider "good?" As it stands, I now have to visit 3, sometimes 4 (including forum development, but that's only because of these changes), separate forums where as I've only had to visit 1 in the past. In looking at the main forum, there was about a page worth of threads updated yesterday, and going back 3 pages took me to threads updated Tuesday. The "Under Construction" page only had about half a page worth of updates, and tapered off real quickly. Is this the goal? To isolate traffic so much that the list of threads updated is minimal? When I first came to ULMF, I remember reading 3-4 pages of new/updated threads daily, which was part of the draw.

I definitely fear that going full on individual genre AND complete/incomplete would be way too much. I guess I'm genuinely curious what you're looking for in these changes.
The goal here is this: Simple to navigate, evenly split traffic, and make maintenance easy. I already have a pretty good idea of what option is going to fulfill the first two. The thing that a lot of people are neglecting, though, is that I'm also trying to make it easily maintainable both for users, and for mods to moderate in, with an emphasis on the mods. Since that's entirely personal preference (and hopefully Toxic is just gonna be on board with my decisions), I'm spending some time with different ways of organizing the section so it's more comfortable from a mod's perspective to roam around.

Things like, "How many rules will I need to enforce for different situations and is that manageable?" and "How hard will it be to grasp the situation to know what corrective action to take?" are questions that I can really only answer after trying out different configurations for the section for myself.

Here's a mock draft for visual comparison.

Setup 1:
  • Completed
  • RPG
  • ACT
  • Sidescrolling
  • Isometric
  • Visual Novel
  • ETC

  • Unfinished
    • RPG
    • ACT
    • Sidescrolling
    • Isometric
    • Visual Novel
    • ETC

Setup 2:
  • RPG
    • Completed
    • Unfinished
  • ACT
    • Completed
    • Unfinished
  • And so on.

Setup 3:
  • Unfinished
    • Unsorted wasteland
  • ACT
  • Sidescrolling
  • Isometric
  • Visual Novel
  • ETC

There's way too many ways to go about this but at least give some idea of a basic structure with regards to organizing the chaotic void we're dealing with now.
Again, the real question here is what makes the most sense VS what is most user friendly. You can easily fit a crowdfunded/nonfunded or patreon/Ci-en subforum in there as well.
Poll time? Professional examples from staff? :D
Setup 1 is something I'm going to attempt in the near future (some time at the end of this month, likely). Setup 2 is far too much of a hassle to set up and maintain due to how many genres we could potentially have, how all the games will need to be split, etc. Setup 3 would be my favorite, but that's because it means minimal work on my team's part. That's not a very acceptable answer for me, though.

Also, since there's going to be a confirmed function for adding multiple prefixes to a thread, there's little need to have sections based on genre now.

Again, the current plans are found in the announcements, though there is no strict timeline at the moment. There's a poll also stickied in the H-Games section. And unfortunately, there's no examples to really point to; that's what I'm trying to experiment with right now.
 
Dec 30, 2017
100
28
#27
Yeah i agree having genres in the prefix. Saves a lot of needless subforum work as well as navigation on a per click basis on the user end.
Good to know that's going to be a thing :)

And honestly, if you prefer #3 in the general light of things, that's a perfectly viable answer. The real purpose of this should be the majority's preference as long as it doesn't devolve into a labyrinthian hellscape that makes sense to neither user nor moderator.
 

DarkFire1004

Tentacle Goddess of the H-Section
Staff member
Super Moderator
Nov 10, 2008
3,397
113
#28
as long as it doesn't devolve into a labyrinthian hellscape that makes sense to neither user nor moderator.
But... That's exactly what I want.
 
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Aug 29, 2016
910
93
#30
Dunno if I missed or not, can't sleep so posting on forum (xD). I guess it's safe to assume that testing period will have around at least a month for accommodation?
 

YummyTiger

Tentacle God
Feb 7, 2014
786
43
#32
The goal here is this: Simple to navigate, evenly split traffic, and make maintenance easy. I already have a pretty good idea of what option is going to fulfill the first two. The thing that a lot of people are neglecting, though, is that I'm also trying to make it easily maintainable both for users, and for mods to moderate in, with an emphasis on the mods. Since that's entirely personal preference (and hopefully Toxic is just gonna be on board with my decisions), I'm spending some time with different ways of organizing the section so it's more comfortable from a mod's perspective to roam around.
Thanks for the response. Though, to be a bit cheeky, wouldn't the original setup of everything in "Hentai Games" have been the "simplest to navigate" and "easiest to maintain"? I mean, users went to 1 forum for everything, could use search functions on just 1 forum, and if they were people who checked every day or so, they could just browse the first couple pages of 1 forum to see what's new. It also meant no threads need to be moved or reclassified, since they're all in the 1 forum. ;)

EDIT: Just to clarify, I was being cheeky. Meaning, I was joking. That said, I was highlighting the importance of having concrete goals for projects like this so that you can evaluate each change. What does "simple to navigate" mean? Is it simplest in terms of overall navigation, if so, then 1 forum would be simplest. Is it ease of finding completed games? In that case, it's a different criteria. How about maintenance? As, any split will involve more maintenance in terms of moving threads, that's a fact. Even creating tagging rules adds more maintenance in terms of enforcing those tags.

I guess in terms of creating goals, a big part is determining what the actual problems are. I've heard a vocal few point out Patreon advertising and thread creation as the primary problem driving this change. If that is the prevalent view, then perhaps a split on funding would make sense (if it's simply incomplete games cluttering up everything, then a split by game completion makes more sense). But, I caution you from drawing too many conclusions based on these few threads. I've seen maybe 20-25 users posting in them, which is not representative of the entire forum. Perhaps an official poll can be ran in addition to testing these changes asking people what their chief issues/complaints with the current design are? I have a paid survey account, so I'd even volunteer to host the survey and relay the data so as not to create extra work for the mods. It still would leave the issue of survey manipulation, but at least it *might* determine if this is a major complaint or a vocal minority.
 
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nnescio

Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Sep 21, 2010
501
28
#33
We are losing a lot of quality threads with detailed guides/ walkthroughs, Q/A discussions, links, in-depth discussion of mechanics and playstyles, complete game/CG saves, painstaking manual TLs for interesting in-game dialogue and author blog posts, etc., all because they have an OP that is considered 'unfinished', even if the the relevant supplementary details are provided a few posts down (a lot of those threads are old, and/or are started before the game was even released, and sometimes by people who can't read moonrunes or use MTL so they aren't even familiar with the game's basic premise). I went back to check out some quality end-game advice given by Harleyquinn in the thread for Lunasoft's Magic & Slash (RJ213313), only to find out the whole thing's been nuked.

There's only so much users can do to pay attention to what's being moved out of the hentai games section before scrambling the fix the OPs. All within two short weeks. Most of us only check those threads when we're (re)playing those specific games, or maybe if it's a subscribed thread and someone bumps them up.

I really, really think those old threads need to be grandfathered in. Maybe move them elsewhere so they don't clutter up the main section (if it gets into the way of moderation), but deleting threads whole scale means we lose a lot of valuable user input and discussions.

If this whole policy change was brought about by the recent influx of unfinished Patreon games (something which I don't even particularly care about), I have to say I am quite miffed (at the influxing, not the policy change).
 
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Bryanis

Evard's Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Mar 14, 2014
885
43
#34
We are losing a lot of quality threads with detailed guides/ walkthroughs, Q/A discussions, links, in-depth discussion of mechanics and playstyles, complete game/CG saves, painstaking manual TLs for interesting in-game dialogue and author blog posts, etc., all because they have an OP that is considered 'unfinished', even if the the relevant supplementary details are provided a few posts down (a lot of those threads are old, and/or are started before the game was even released, and sometimes by people who can't read moonrunes or use MTL so they aren't even familiar with the game's basic premise). I went back to check out some quality end-game advice given by Harleyquinn in the thread for Lunasoft's Magic & Slash (RJ213313), only to find out the whole thing's been nuked.

There's only so much users can do to pay attention to what's being moved out of the hentai games section before scrambling the fix the OPs. All within two short weeks. Most of us only check those threads when we're (re)playing those specific games, or maybe if it's a subscribed thread and someone bumps them up.

I really, really think those old threads need to be grandfathered in. Maybe move them elsewhere so they don't clutter up the main section (if it gets into the way of moderation), but deleting threads whole scale means we lose a lot of valuable user input and discussions.

If this whole policy change was brought about by the recent influx of unfinished Patreon games (something which I don't even particularly care about), I have to say I am quite miffed (at the influxing, not the policy change).
Well, everyone had 2 weeks to submit some new OP text in place of the Thread maker if he didn't do it himself.
I've seen many thread moved in that section being active - sometime event the thread maker participating, and still end up being deleted because of the lack of OP updating....
If you wanted some specific thread to survive you could (as other as well), have followed the rules and write an OP and MP it to Darkfire to save the thread - I did it for a few thread I was interested in - or though was worth saving because of the quantity of information in it even if I wasn't interested in the game.

While I agree it's sad to see thread like that disappear, it just goes to show that lot of peoples don't care about what happen or just don't read the rules...
 
Aug 29, 2016
910
93
#35
Guys, any removed thread should still be cached by google, if there was something worth of saving (a walkthrough, etc).
https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/1687222?hl=en
https://www.lifewire.com/highlight-keyword-google-cache-search-1616811
Second, if the OP is no longer active, doesn't care and so on and you want to preserve something from a thread, you can archive it yourself: https://archive.is/
Not to mention wayback machine and many other sites.
Or do exactly as Bryanis said he did for few threads..

Was it all the result of influx of unfinished Patreon games? No, not really, it was more about a mess that was in Hentai Games section and it was a really old topic. Some devs just felt some injustice is happening to them (irony) and had to inject themselves as vocal minority thinking they own the place and know best what's good for everyone (in reality, thinking only about themselves).
 

YummyTiger

Tentacle God
Feb 7, 2014
786
43
#36
I really, really think those old threads need to be grandfathered in. Maybe move them elsewhere so they don't clutter up the main section (if it gets into the way of moderation), but deleting threads whole scale means we lose a lot of valuable user input and discussions.
It's probably too late now, but I agree. Also, is it really an issue if there are lots of old threads? I would think the primary concern is keeping the new threads straight and the first couple pages of threads correct. Unless there are plans to regularly prune old threads? I mean, we don't even know what split model is being used yet, it's still in testing.

Was it all the result of influx of unfinished Patreon games? No, not really, it was more about a mess that was in Hentai Games section and it was a really old topic. Some devs just felt some injustice is happening to them (irony) and had to inject themselves as vocal minority thinking they own the place and know best what's good for everyone (in reality, thinking only about themselves).
If that's not the pot calling the kettle black. About 4 Patreon devs posted questions about why crowdfunded games (including completed ones) were being moved into a subforum named "Under Construction." There was a productive back-and-forth about it and future organization, until a few hardcore anti-Patreon people showed up and derailed the entire discussion (here's looking at YOU). You've been just as vocal, and you have no proof that you are not the minority opinion. In fact, the only real evidence we have is the current re-organization poll, and it suggests the opposite of what you're saying.
 

DarkFire1004

Tentacle Goddess of the H-Section
Staff member
Super Moderator
Nov 10, 2008
3,397
113
#37
We are losing a lot of quality threads with detailed guides/ walkthroughs, Q/A discussions, links, in-depth discussion of mechanics and playstyles, complete game/CG saves, painstaking manual TLs for interesting in-game dialogue and author blog posts, etc., all because they have an OP that is considered 'unfinished', even if the the relevant supplementary details are provided a few posts down (a lot of those threads are old, and/or are started before the game was even released, and sometimes by people who can't read moonrunes or use MTL so they aren't even familiar with the game's basic premise). I went back to check out some quality end-game advice given by Harleyquinn in the thread for Lunasoft's Magic & Slash (RJ213313), only to find out the whole thing's been nuked.

There's only so much users can do to pay attention to what's being moved out of the hentai games section before scrambling the fix the OPs. All within two short weeks. Most of us only check those threads when we're (re)playing those specific games, or maybe if it's a subscribed thread and someone bumps them up.

I really, really think those old threads need to be grandfathered in. Maybe move them elsewhere so they don't clutter up the main section (if it gets into the way of moderation), but deleting threads whole scale means we lose a lot of valuable user input and discussions.

If this whole policy change was brought about by the recent influx of unfinished Patreon games (something which I don't even particularly care about), I have to say I am quite miffed (at the influxing, not the policy change).
Rant below:

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but this is REALLY not difficult. If you haven't noticed, threads are only moved in the first two days of the cycle, at a maximum of 6 pages. It isn't like an endless load of threads are being pushed in, giving no time to fix anything. And what do you mean, there's only so much a user can do to pay attention? Was the two stickied threads, global announcement front and center on the page, the previous locked thread discussing the changes, and this thread not enough for everyone? Did you want me to PM literally everybody too? Because I would've done that. There would've been a mass PM to the entire user list if I hadn't already asked F95 and Mind Flayer, both of whom warned against it. I have made it ABUNDANTLY clear what was going on, where to go to find the threads, and what to do to fix it.

I am all for saving valuable information, but this entire ordeal is occurring because people genuinely don't care for standards here. I am highly aware that a lot of information shows up later in the thread. I am highly aware that some games really don't have information to report on. But this isn't solely a matter of upholding standards; it's a matter of forcing the community to either start putting forth an effort, or start facing consequences.

Bryanis hit the nail on the head. People are actively participating in the threads that have been moved out. I even made sure to send an alert about the move to anybody who was subscribed to it. And yet nobody did anything. I even moved the Forest of the Blue Skin thread out there, a thread with literally over 200 pages, and not one PM came by to fix the OP. The only reason it's safe now is because I just remembered Zell has an Enty, which means it gets moved to the Under Construction section.

Also I already AM being leinent with old threads. The standards for old threads are nowhere near as stringent as the current rules for new threads. I am literally asking everybody to just answer one simple question: what is it? I don't even care if you just paraphrase other posts in the thread. I have even accepted rewrites of OPs that were only 2-4 sentences long.

Think of it this way: the hard maximum of threads being moved every two weeks is 6 pages, which is 20 threads for me. 6 pages * 20 threads per page * 4 sentences average per thread = about 480 sentences needing to be written. You are NOT going to tell me the most active section in the forum, with hundreds of people coming through each day, can't collectively write 480sentences by themselves in two weeks. I'm not even asking you guys to fix the thread title or to add pictures; the reorganization effort is already doing it for you!

I'm reminded of something somebody else said when they also disagreed with this change. They said the typical user was not like me, who went through multiple pages worth of threads each day, and would not have time to fix all the threads and that it's unfair that a few people have to fix the problems caused by the many. I thought about this and honestly, I think that's completely wrong.

First, I am one person (+3 now for the organization effort). You all number in the thousands. Even if I cut out the lurkers and inactive accounts, there are still far more of you than me. If I'm perusing the section on a daily basis, looking only for things that break rules, I am almost certain there are people here doing the same, but actually actively following the content and probably could write something up.

Secondly, I know barely anything about H games nowadays. I don't know a thing about pretty much anybody's Patreon (Sorry Yummy, but I know exactly two things about your game: there's a blonde chick somewhere, based on your avatar, and your Patreon is a pay-by-release model, based on the trillion Patreon discussion threads I have to read) and I have no idea who all these Japanese devs are. I have a bunch of real life obligations and only moderate on my spare time, which only in recent months has increased from ~2 hours. AND EVEN THEN, I am completely confident that I could do the minimum research for at least one page of the moved threads and write a nice, detailed (not just 4 sentence) OP for them all within those two weeks by myself.

This is a problem the community needs to fix, not a problem a couple people need to fix. And by problem, I don't mean a problem of threads being deleted; I mean a problem of too few people willing to put forth an effort to help better the community. If all of you are going to rely on a few people to fix the problem, then you're gonna be sorely disappointed when I decide to stop giving everybody a chance and just completely purge the threads.

Short version: This is not just about having a nice OP for older threads. It is about the community not wanting to put forth a very minimal effort to keep this place nice. It's not just about saving valuable information and records. It's about the amount of people who take, but don't give.

All I've asked over the years is to just put forth a modicum of effort and thought in your posts. I know there are genuine conversations and actual useful info being, and I thank all of you who contributed thus far and apologize for all the inconveniences. But I'm a firm believer in self-policing and this is a very good way of guaranteeing that from now on, people will be much harder on others who put forth little effort in their posts. Just look at the backlash on people requesting download links now. This ordeal is just a medium to bring a much larger change here. If OPs get fixed along the way, that's a bonus.

And like Yoshiiki pointed out, if you want to be completely self-serving that you want to save the info for yourself, but for some reason won't put in the effort to write an OP, feel free to archive it. There is also no rule against remaking a thread. There's just a rule about remaking the thread with a bad OP.
 

YummyTiger

Tentacle God
Feb 7, 2014
786
43
#38
Given your rant, I want you to know that I do appreciate the effort your putting forth. I can't speak for Nnescio, but I have no desire to try and moderate a forum like this. I'm glad that someone like you is doing it, as you seem to have a pretty damn level head. It is sad to lose that trove of information, but I'm interested to see what your vision for all of this looks like. I'll admit, I'm not fully comprehending where it will all go, but I also don't see the inner working and moderate this beast.

Good luck to you, and there are people who can (and will) help out if you need it. Just PM.
 
Dec 11, 2016
76
18
#39
So whats the plan on the obvious throw away accounts to ask for links now? You guys must have seen this coming. I find it hard to believe ya'll are going chase them around in circles for eternity :D
 

DarkFire1004

Tentacle Goddess of the H-Section
Staff member
Super Moderator
Nov 10, 2008
3,397
113
#40
Somebody asked me something similar a couple weeks ago in a PM. I'll copypaste my answer:

To begin with, all new members need to have their accounts manually activated by a member of the admin team. If somebody wanted to create a new account, they have to already go through an admin to do so. This is already a chokepoint for anybody who'd want to just keep making new accounts to ask for the same thing and at the very least would slow down the process enough for the moderation team to individually handle cases.

Next, this community is partially self-policing and a lot of active members that would provide links are both aware of the rule and are in full support of it. Even if there were a flood of people making accounts to spam the forum about it, they wouldn't be getting what they wanted anyway.

Finally, and most importantly, why is this even an issue? If they're circumventing a ban, but then breaking the rules again anyway, then that account gets banned as well. Short of a DdoS attempt, the issue has never been so large that the moderation team couldn't keep on top of it. It's just a matter of diligence.
To add onto this, I'm not actually sure about the first point anymore. However, I am able to see who is making multiple throwaway accounts, so I'm also capable of rejecting/banning these users. If it gets to the point where somebody is legitimately flooding the forum with new accounts, I think we'd have bigger problems to tackle than the fact that people are link begging.

Also, while it's still early, I've noticed that each time a person has asked for a link since implementing the rule, people who look in the thread have either been giving negative reactions to the post or outright responding negatively to them, which would indicate to me that my second point seems to hold water.
 
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