Completed Feature Rep system

AnotherLurker

Demon Girl Master
Feb 7, 2016
195
#21
"but steps were taken to minimize this and if someone does so on a regular basis we have staff members specifically promoted to admins to deal with this stuff "

And I'm sure those staff members really enjoyed taking time out of their day to sift through all that knowing people like you happily took them for granted.

Alright, slicer.. I'll bite.. Here's a fun little challenge for you.

Give me one, solid, irrefutable reason why the reputation system directly benefits this forum, without said reason or explanation for it sounding like a 14 year old trying to explain why he shouldn't get in trouble for poking his sister in the car when she screamed at him not to.

Because as far as I, or anyone else in this argument could easily be concerned, a very obvious alternative for the rep system would probably be explained including the phrase "Or you could all just grow the fuck up".
 
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dragoon93041

Tentacle God
Jun 3, 2011
1,257
#22
You seem to be ignoring me and some of the other posters. While I'm not agreeing with all of what slicer is saying, I am saying that the rep bar was fun and I do miss it. Why? Do I need to have some solid evidence for a case of 'fun'?
 

AnotherLurker

Demon Girl Master
Feb 7, 2016
195
#23
There was, I'm sure in some theoretical phase of development, one reason why the rep system was introduced.. (besides being an actual reputation-measurement system)

The forum is and was already "fun" enough.. You've got shit-posts, trolls, quoting people's posts and ruthlessly calling them out, the rep system was a way to simply do that in a more discreet way, so as to infuriate the target with your dirty opinion with a negrep, as opposed to just posting your opinion on the forum to them, which would inevitably lead to them posting a reply, and possibly igniting a flame war..

But that premise quickly went out the window because when actually put to use, people didn't want to just get pointlessly infuriated by random negreps, and wanted a productive way of venting that rage any way they could.. And thus the rep insanity/ect thread was born..

Now if you took every theoretical flame war that could have sprouted from a forum with no rep system, and compared the numbers of posts to the number of posts within the "rep thread".. Would one come out bigger than the other?.. Possibly..

But part of the benefit in itself was that the rep instanity thread acted like a play-pen for all the users who were infuriated/amused by the reps they got, and wanted to talk about.. The only problem being that eventually, things would get out of hand.. Hell, users have been BANNED for letting their behaviour get so senselessly out of control over arguments and frustrations over the shenanigans within the rep thread..

Part of the bottom line is, the rep system doesn't actually help, or hinder the creation of, and/or trouble caused by your everyday typical asshole.. But what it does do, is pointlessly increase the workload of the staff, who have to manage, or in worse situations, watch over and take care of the reps.

And for what.. "Fun"?.. Unless the admin's got an awfully strong sense of humor, I'm not sure you'd have an easy time running that by them as your main reason for wanting it back.
 

Termite

A bug
Moderator
Apr 8, 2009
2,089
#24
As someone who's been here for most of the iterations of ulmf that had a rep system I need to point out that the system worked just fine for most of its existence. The only time it started being a problem was when a group of new users started circle-jerking each other's bars then started lashing out at everone else when they started being disruptive. From that point on we've always had some new person coming in to complain about being negrepped even though the entire forum basically screamed at them saying rep didn't matter. From there I'm guessing it got to be too much of a headache for the mods, so the system was killed. In turn that brought a bunch of tge shitposting that stayed locked within reps onto the forums, and though most of it has been locked into the Shit Posting subforum it effectively killed the activity in Everthing Else.

I enjoyed Everthing Else until it was bombed, and quite frankly I'm pissed at all the people involved for killing it. But ultimately th fault lies in prople not being able to simply roll with the punches, and that's left mecwith a strong dislike for people who simply can't leave well enough alone and keep bickering over what's essentially a trivial matter that most everyone else is mature enough to handle.

So please take the hint.
 

super_slicer

Tentacle God
Nov 17, 2010
3,064
#25
"but steps were taken to minimize this and if someone does so on a regular basis we have staff members specifically promoted to admins to deal with this stuff "

And I'm sure those staff members really enjoyed taking time out of their day to sift through all that knowing people like you happily took them for granted.
They volunteered for the job. Without them the rep system would have stayed off.


Because as far as I, or anyone else in this argument could easily be concerned
Really it's just you and me at this point. I've successfully distracted the other guy by trying to get him to prove that we can't have things because there's some vague possibility of internet terrorism. You're just too fun though, I didn't even have to try to push your buttons and you came running in frothing at the mouth.

Give me one, solid, irrefutable reason why the reputation system directly benefits this forum, without said reason or explanation for it sounding like a 14 year old trying to explain why he shouldn't get in trouble for poking his sister in the car when she screamed at him not to.
How about you give me one why it directly detracts from the forum without sounding like a pretentious self-righteous cunt? I don't see why the burden of proof should be upon me.

So please take the hint.
I can't find the list that says who's in charge of what sections anymore, I'd REALLY like to comply if you do in fact have authority over this sub, however I don't know if you do or not.
 
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habisain

Tentacle God
Jul 15, 2012
1,199
#26
Sure is if you're a moron and have allow your browser to follow instructions on a page that redirect your connection. Good, you've proven that it takes a dedicated effort to act on internet threats, enough that one might say enough that 90% of them are: bullshit.
These are the words of someone who fundamentally does not understand how the Internet works. The attack vector I outlined works on anyone who is browsing the internet, whilst interacting with ULMF, who allows images to display in their browser, and who is using the Internet in a normal fashion (i.e. not through TOR). There are no redirects involved; I am just using the fact that I can control the URLs of images within posts that I make. Also, I stated that the ONLY reason that I will not conduct this type of attack on you, or any member of this forum, is that I do not wish to be banned from the forum and conducting this type of attack would likely cause me to be banned. In terms of effort, this attack would take me approximately 20 minutes to set up the infrastructure from scratch, and then for the most part, identification of users IP addresses is automatic. Heck, this kind of attack isn't even illegal - it's frequently used for the purposes of implementing super-cookies.

Simply put, super_slicer, if someone has the intent to act on a threat, and the will to break the law (which, they may already have demonstrated depending on the type of threat), then anyone with even the most basic knowledge of cyber-security can trivially identify the IP address(s) of any active user on this forum - and indeed, most other forums as well. From there, at the very least, a booter service could be employed to remove said user from the Internet - or more criminal methods could be used to dox the user properly.

To be dismissive of threats on the Internet is not a safe position. And similarly, if you have made threats on the Internet expecting them to be dismissed, that's not a safe position either.

EDIT to add: It looks like there's a new reputation system, with various different reactions. Seems to be a fair compromise, insofar that it allows those who really want to have green/red bars to have them, but does not permit the sending of pseudo-anonymous threats. It's probably still possible to game the system if people try though.
 
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AnotherLurker

Demon Girl Master
Feb 7, 2016
195
#27
Well.. This works out.. Most of my arguments were concerning the re-entry of the old rep system.. Though slicer trying to take credit for "baiting" me and making it sound like I'd made a fool of myself over explaining in-depth why the old system didn't work very well gave me a bit of amusement..

I might've nerded out a bit with my explanations, but not once did I lose my cool.. Can't say the same for him, but then again, I'm sure my own impression differs greatly to the perception of others..

This system looks just fine, in fact, much better than the old, as reputation given or taken is based off a single number, instead of a value dictated by how popular the person already was, or the popularity of the person giving the change in rep, which means a high-rep member can't completely destroy your rep just because they didn't like what you said, and now can only leave the same-sized mark on your profile as anyone else, taking away the sense of power that people like slicer had and frequently lorded over others..

It's all very basic now, and doesn't look constricted with the fickle rules that bound the old system.. Basic is good, I'm happy with it. But the question remains.. Will there be a new rep thread?..

Also, to adress something termite said..

"But ultimately the fault lies in prople not being able to simply roll with the punches, and that's left me with a strong dislike for people who simply can't leave well enough alone and keep bickering over what's essentially a trivial matter that most everyone else is mature enough to handle."

Even from the point of view of a person who's seen all the bickering and insecure bullshit first-hand alongside you, that comment sounds a bit
narrow-minded, basically boiling down to "if everyone just kept acting cool, none of this shit would have happened".. You can't expect that from
people, especially forum-goers.. This is why moderators/admins exist.. You can only place down so many rules to keep them from getting too
crazy, but there's going to be a minimal level of craziness that you're gonna have to deal with in any forum, depending on how much slack
you give them in said department.. Maybe this new rep system will "calm the masses", maybe it won't.. But saying such things makes you look
a bit powerless and ill-equipped to deal with the task of maintaining order in that chaos, regardless if it's your given job.. I too mourn the
everything else section, but I got on with my life, and I still frequent the other bits of the forum that I have interest in, and you too, will move on and thrive. Just stay strong.

Also.. As a last note on the stale argument over the old rep system before I take a drink and head to sleep..

"How about you give me one why it directly detracts from the forum without sounding like a pretentious self-righteous cunt? I don't see why the burden of proof should be upon me."

Simple answer... You..

Goodnight folks, and cheers to the new rep system.
 
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super_slicer

Tentacle God
Nov 17, 2010
3,064
#28
These are the words of someone who fundamentally does not understand how the Internet works. The attack vector I outlined works on anyone who is browsing the internet, whilst interacting with ULMF, who allows images to display in their browser, and who is using the Internet in a normal fashion (i.e. not through TOR). There are no redirects involved; I am just using the fact that I can control the URLs of images within posts that I make. Also, I stated that the ONLY reason that I will not conduct this type of attack on you, or any member of this forum, is that I do not wish to be banned from the forum and conducting this type of attack would likely cause me to be banned.
My apologies for using incorrect terminology, when I say redirect I mean any url that would cause a computer to connect to a site or server other than one the user has intended it to. Easily achievable via a whitelist.

Though slicer trying to take credit for "baiting" me and making it sound like I'd made a fool of myself over explaining in-depth why the old system didn't work very well gave me a bit of amusement..
I'm not saying I "baited" you. I'm saying it's funny how you follow me around and make a big stink.

This system looks just fine, in fact, much better than the old, as reputation given or taken is based off a single number, instead of a value dictated by how popular the person already was, or the popularity of the person giving the change in rep, which means a high-rep member can't completely destroy your rep just because they didn't like what you said, and now can only leave the same-sized mark on your profile as anyone else, taking away the sense of power that people like slicer had and frequently lorded over others..
You seem to be confused about the nature of ulmf's rep system. Believing it to be a system of elitist oppression, which it is not. Our Rep system is a meritocracy, wherein the judgements of individuals who've proven their worth carry more weight than some random person who has little to no knowledge of our forum.

You've also glossed over the fact that this new system lacks any limitation what-so-ever and is ripe for the kinds of abuse you feared in the old system.

"How about you give me one why it directly detracts from the forum without sounding like a pretentious self-righteous cunt? I don't see why the burden of proof should be upon me."

Simple answer... You..
Just couldn't manage it eh? Ask any of the staff, there's never been a single valid complaint about my interaction with the rep system.
 

habisain

Tentacle God
Jul 15, 2012
1,199
#29
My apologies for using incorrect terminology, when I say redirect I mean any url that would cause a computer to connect to a site or server other than one the user has intended it to. Easily achievable via a whitelist.
I believe my point still stands - Whitelisting would break a lot of websites functionality. A quick trace shows that ULMF instructs the browser to connect to non-ULMF sites, for example. Besides, using Whitelisting in this way is a very paranoid thing to do, and certainly falls outside of "using the internet normally", to the point where I'd say most Internet users would not do this. I also think you may have confused general tracking prevention measures with countermeasures that can help with a specific, targeted attack. General tracking prevention (e.g. uBlock Origin) works on blacklists, doesn't really break the Internet, and is nearly useless against a targeted attack.

But yes, I will concede that someone of sufficient paranoia, using whitelists in such a way as to break cross site file hosting (which again, would break a lot of the Internet, given the prevalence of CDNs for jQuery/Google Fonts etc), would be immune from this kind of attack. If I was up against someone like that, then there's probably some abuse of hosting on ULMFs own servers which could be done to unmask an IP, but I'd have to research this a bit further. I don't think it'd be too hard though; ULMF does let us upload attachments, so I suspect there's something that I could do even in that case. It'd just require a little bit more thought than a textbook attack.

Anyway, I'll stop harping on about cyber-security in the rep thread now. Some people might find it interesting, but I fear I am woefully off topic at this stage.
 
Feb 2, 2014
357
#30
You seem to be confused about the nature of ulmf's rep system. Believing it to be a system of elitist oppression, which it is not. Our Rep system is a meritocracy, wherein the judgments of individuals who've proven their worth carry more weight than some random person who has little to no knowledge of our forum.

You've also glossed over the fact that this new system lacks any limitation what-so-ever and is ripe for the kinds of abuse you feared in the old system..

Pretty much this. The new system can be used to "punish" someone because they disagreed with you, or, regardless of its merit, something someone said offended you somehow. Then again, the other system was similar in its failings, but it at least prevented you from hitting multiple posts of a single person. This system allows someone to target others with impunity to the point it becomes full-blown harassment for the sake of "getting even", which can be considered its own filter if it becomes enough of a concern.

Probably prefer this system for that reason alone. If someone is harassing you via tanking your rep for no reason other than because you didn't jerk them off, it can evolve into a ban-worthy offense.
 

Zepheral

Super Sand Lesbian
Jun 15, 2014
1,741
#31
Maybe, but if you took the time to do that....then that's just sad. Or that person must really deserve it. XD
 

AngleBoi7

Jungle Girl
Nov 29, 2014
96
#32
Pretty much this. The new system can be used to "punish" someone because they disagreed with you, or, regardless of its merit, something someone said offended you somehow. Then again, the other system was similar in its failings, but it at least prevented you from hitting multiple posts of a single person. This system allows someone to target others with impunity to the point it becomes full-blown harassment for the sake of "getting even", which can be considered its own filter if it becomes enough of a concern.

Probably prefer this system for that reason alone. If someone is harassing you via tanking your rep for no reason other than because you didn't jerk them off, it can evolve into a ban-worthy offense.
Well, there is no rep anonymity anymore and no more anonymous messages, well, at least without alt accounts.
 

Timmy!

Mystic Girl
Jun 30, 2011
269
#33
Well, there is no rep anonymity anymore and no more anonymous messages, well, at least without alt accounts.
You can even see who negrepped you in the past including the "super friendly messages" that came with them.