Rule-Question about C §2

[Scorps]

I have a rule-related question about section C paragraph 2:
"The posting of pictures that depict under-aged characters (or characters that appear under-aged) in sexual situations is not allowed on this forum. It is illegal in the country this server is hosted in."
The first part, that states that the depiction of under-aged characters is not allowed, leaves no room for interpretation and is thus clear to me.
But i have a question about the definition of the bounds that are considered as "appearing to be under-aged".

By my understanding of it, only a small completely flat character would not be allowed. (Chopping-boards)

But are these examples okay?:

1. Lets say i would make a Fantasy game and in that game, i have Dwarfs. These dwarfs are small in height and have boob-sizes comparable to Humans, ranging from A over D to F.
Would they be considered to appear Underage, do to their lack of height? (Lemons to Melons)

2. Lets say i make a Horror-game and my Heroine is a medium-sized, sporty Girl with A Cups.
Would she be considered to appear underage, do to her lack of big Boobs and thin build?(Sporty Lemons)

I hope i'm in the right forum-section.
Greetings,

Scorps

 

[Jesus]

The important question to ask is, "Without context*, could this image be construed as depicting a minor".
If there's even a hint of the answer being "Yes", then you should assume it shouldn't be posted.
In other words, if it constitutes a gray-area, it's for the best that it isn't embedded or linked to directly.
* Neither those who enforce TOS, nor courts of law, can be expected to consider something like "No they're actually a 2000-year old vampire".

 

[Scorps]

Thank you for the response.
But it seems i communicated my question poorly.
I'm not wondering about slapping a "She-Is-Actually-1000-Years-Old"-label on a loli, but by what indicators "appear underage" is determined.
For example:
An 23 old anime-girl, appearing adult for some, could still be viewed as an 17 Year old without context, which would technically make that character appear underage in the subjective interpretation of the Viewer.
So every character visibly under 30, who was not scarred by the decay of time, would be of limits.
I might be wrong, but I don't believe the rules are actually that narrow.

What I want to know for clearance is, what the factors are and where the lines lie. The vague formulation left room for much interpretation.
Depending on how i bend the interpretation of the Rule, it completely changes its meaning.

To make sure i understand the rule as intended:

A= Obvious-Loli ->Not Cool
B= XYearLabel-Loli ->Not Cool
C= A/B-Cute Sporty Female Body-type -> Cool
D= C/D Body-type ->Cool
E= E+ Body-type ->Cool



Greetings;
Scorps

 

[Jesus]

Even C is debatable, but you've got the gist of it.

 

[Scorps]

I see.. so i just have to "max out" the breast department to avoid "Debatable" depictions.
Since the only difference between C, D and E is the Cup-size, it's essentially forbidden to depict Cup-sizes smaller than the D-Cup.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Greetings;
Scorps

 

[super_slicer]

Nope, you're trying to oversimplify this. Not that I don't understand why and for your purposes oversimplification might be the way to go, but I think it's important not to reduce the number of factors when discussing this.

For example, even if you put DD cups on subject A it would still be obvious that she's loli given the rest of her proportions. There is indeed the term "oppai loli". Honestly with the... vagueness of the morality laws in question were you to draw an adult female dwarf in a realistic style it COULD be interpreted as having breached them.

There's also context to think about, though I know Jesus specifically removed that from the equation it does indeed factor in though rarely. Say that D or E were in images where the other characters were proportioned so that D and E appeared significantly smaller to the rest of the population.

Unfortunately with regards artistic depictions it is hard to draw a distinction between of age and not of age, in large part due to anime/manga/hentai often giving unrealistic proportions to characters.

Oddly enough, I think the best way to counter these problems is to feature a character that isn't of age in a non-sexual manner (and label them! XD ) so then whoever is viewing the material would be able to draw a comparison with the characters that you intend to be of age. Though that doesn't work with dwarfs... I think giving them more aged facial features might work to your advantage but don't quote me on that.

 

[Yoshiiki]

Sigh, what's wrong with people? You can have a flat character that doesn't look underage. As slicer mentioned: It's all about proportions. While artists themselves can tell you exactly which part of body needs to be what (neck size/length, waist, head to body ratio, etc), for average Joe Schmoe it's enough he is seeing it. That's why for majority of people a rule of: If it looks like a kid, it's a kid - does work.

 

[Scorps]

Unfortunately with regards artistic depictions it is hard to draw a distinction between of age and not of age, in large part due to anime/manga/hentai often giving unrealistic proportions to characters.

Oddly enough, I think the best way to counter these problems is to feature a character that isn't of age in a non-sexual manner (and label them! XD ) so then whoever is viewing the material would be able to draw a comparison with the characters that you intend to be of age. Though that doesn't work with dwarfs... I think giving them more aged facial features might work to your advantage but don't quote me on that.

I think i can work with that, That was really helpful, thank you. I just change the Dwarfs body features a bit, so they are not that small(Like in "The Elder Scrolls"). Some children wander the
world anyway. The difference in the sprite is obvious.

That's why for majority of people a rule of: If it looks like a kid, it's a kid - does work.

I'm using anime-style Models and as mentioned by slicer, the proportions are off. Even your number 9 could be viewed as underage, Since she could be 17 and thus hasn't reached Adulthood.
Actual Children are easy to spot, i agree on that, but the older half of the "Teen" section is a mess of subjective interpretation. Certain styles, like Moe, further complicate things. That doesn't mean
that i do not understand or appreciate what you are trying to say nor do i want to piss you off, but i am not the judge on my art. In the view of some more radical types, next to all anime- and cartoon-styles are
off-limits. I just needed clarification on what type of person is the judge and what area constitutes as the debatable "grey area" that should be avoided.
Reason often comes short on emotionally driven subjects.

Let me use your picture for an Example:
If i would put them into Categories:
1 -2= Toddlers (0+)
3-5 = Children (5+)
6-7 = Young Teens (13+)
----L---I---N----E---
8 = Young Adult(18+)
9 = Adult (20+)

But someone else might draw the Line between 8 and 9 ... or 6 and 7 ... or above 9.

PS: I do not intent to offend someone, if this is interpreted that way. I just want to lay out, where my confusion about the boundaries of the rule comes from.

Greetings;
Scorps

 

[Yoshiiki]

I think i can work with that, That was really helpful, thank you. I just change the Dwarfs body features a bit, so they are not that small(Like in "The Elder Scrolls"). Some children wander the
world anyway. The difference in the sprite is obvious.


I'm using anime-style Models and as mentioned by slicer, the proportions are off. Even your number 9 could be viewed as underage, Since she could be 17 and thus hasn't reached Adulthood.
Actual Children are easy to spot, i agree on that, but the older half of the "Teen" section is a mess of subjective interpretation. Certain styles, like Moe, further complicate things. That doesn't mean
that i do not understand or appreciate what you are trying to say nor do i want to piss you off, but i am not the judge on my art. In the view of some more radical types, next to all anime- and cartoon-styles are
off-limits. I just needed clarification on what type of person is the judge and what area constitutes as the debatable "grey area" that should be avoided.
Reason often comes short on emotionally driven subjects.

Let me use your picture for an Example:
If i would put them into Categories:
1 -2= Toddlers (0+)
3-5 = Children (5+)
6-7 = Young Teens (13+)
----L---I---N----E---
8 = Young Adult(18+)
9 = Adult (20+)

But someone else might draw the Line between 8 and 9 ... or 6 and 7 ... or above 9.

PS: I do not intent to offend someone, if this is interpreted that way. I just want to lay out, where my confusion about the boundaries of the rule comes from.

Greetings;
Scorps

This is basically why I wrote "for majority of people", which is part of population that does not watch anime after reaching certain age.
I would say, around ~80% of anime/manga depicts teenage characters (often around age of 14-16), so it does have an effect on an adult person watching/reading that medium and being way too confused.
#7 is around 16-18, while #8 should be 21 and #9 is around 30+
Details of "why" is something I will skip for now (also, #9 having some slenderman arms, CLAMP too much?).
One thing mentioned: I am going to completely agree that "moe" is problematic, mostly because a lot of it is caused by making face more rounded, which is something artist generally do for child characters. Then again, most "moe" characters are below 16, even K-ON which is more or less considered pure "moe" starts with 15yo characters.
Anyway, best method of avoiding confusion is knowing the difference, that requires studying, because development of a body during 1-25 years period has enough drastic differences for person to be able to tell. Bigger half of it comes from bone structure, that's why neck is different, head frame, waist and so on.
Plus, you SHOULD be the first person to judge your own art, because it's something you are creating from scratch and you have total control over what it's going to be or how it's going to be viewed. That's the whole process of creation: to use some medium for transferring what's inside your head.

And last thing, if you are going to be afraid of offending people, then your creativity is going to be limited. Don't bother, no one is going to appreciate you trying to not offend and those that want to be offended, will be offended, no matter how hard you try.

 

[Scorps]

The "no intend to offend" was about the way i laid out my argument. In some way i sounded like a dick, so i wanted to clear up that this was not my intention, if it is seen that way.
I like to clear these things up beforehand in discussions, so the argument stays clear of emotional distortion. I agree that everything is offending to someone.

It seems i was presenting my point about the judge poorly. I agree that everyone is his own arts the first judge(otherwise improvement is impossible), but the judge i was talking about, is the one who decides what is and is
not allowed here. (That's on me, i should have made it clear).

I got a good glimpse at this "judge" now. I wanted to ensure that he is not operating like a CW, which he luckily isn't.

Greetings;
Scorps