TLE:A Discussion thread

[Dracador]

This thread is meant to remove the clutter from Serifyn's story. If you want to discuss your reasoning with others and/or convince them that your vote is the way to go, do it here rather than making votes difficult to count.

I will post links to every decision post that Serifyn makes, just to make navigation easier for someone browsing here.

So, in the interest of reasoned debate, the previous vote can be found at: http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=369687&postcount=284

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

New development woooo

So apparently the lines dividing the different colors of tentacles are fading:

"We should go back to the overlord, warn them that she is coming"

This implies the two are (or i guess, were) closely working together

"It is as we feared, she is the champion" Rachel said as she looked around to make sure nobody was following them.

Implying the tentacles are aware of the existence of a "champion", or coming of one, and were expecting it.

"And then there were four" Rachel said as she turned around and continued to walk into the forest towards her Overlord's lair far to the East, trying to think of how she would prepare for what would inevitably be the decisive battle to determine the future of the world.

This implies either one of the following:
+There remain four active princesses, this one is doubtful since each individual overlord is essentially capable of making a princess (lazuli made one even before he was an overlord)
+Four of the "main" characters/princesses still live (Laura, Olivia, April, Rachel)
+Only four colors of tentacle remain

And also: It's hard to deny Rachel is "evil" at this point, she killed an ally for no reason other than spite.

Furthermore, it is implied there will be a decisive battle in the future

Lastly, this is the first known event of tentacles (or princesses) directly killing a woman. Xozz wasn't exactly a direct death, though his very existence implied tentacles were not beyond killing women, as they made him in the first place.

 

[Serifyn]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

Rachel is a human, and she chose to kill Sarah in order to fix her damaged tentacle staff which is a great source of her power. she was caught unaware and defeated, but doesnt want news of her failure to spread.

Killing Sarah allows Rachel to make it look like the overlord in the dark forest was to blame for their failure to capture her, Rachel can tell her overlord and anyone else she meets whatever she wants regarding what happened in the dark forest, the only one who can say any differant is Zoey and Ella, whom no one would believe.

Rachel also dislikes the black tentacles, specifically Cecilia, the black tentacle queen.

surviving the events of the black forest, Rachel will retreat back to her overlord in depths of the great forest with the knowledge a 'champion' does indeed exist and will likely come for her and her overlord in due time.

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

Ok, just to be sure then; what is the current state on the topic of tentacles killing women? The creation of Xozz seems to imply the tentacles way back then were OK with women being killed and Rachel's current actions seem to imply that same process (though it might just be the "human" part left in her, hence the question)

 

[Serifyn]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

Rachel had made up her mind that she was going back to her own lair in order to tell her overlord about the champion (Ella), but if she arrived with her tentacle staff broken, it would have risen questions about how exactly a queen broke her most important accessory.

Furthermore, being a black princess, Sarah would have eventually told Cecilia or her overlord what was coming for them, which would put black in the same position as green.

The human side of Rachel decided to kill Sarah, but the tentacle side put her in position to do so....if that makes any sense.

 

[Dracador]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

The divisions between colours may be fading for the time being (it's been seen that it's possible for colours to ally for mutual benefit - namely blue and pink), or this may just be a local joining for the purposes of trying to stop Ella. Although that begs the question of how Rachel (and Olivia, for that matter) knew Ella was in the area in the first place - in this case she's being more closely stalked than I would have expected. In terms of other possible alliances, Black has shown tendancies to try this in the previous parts of this CYOA and presumably Red would too, as directed by Xozz. However, it seems unlikely that either Pink or Blue would join in this kind of pact unless they're hard pressed. Given the nature of Pink this would be some impressive threat to be facing.
If it is widespread then Ella has (more) issues, namely with co-ordinated traps - aided even further by her conspicuous smell.
... I hope this made some sort of sense to anyone else. It's just speculation, anyway. Forward the pr0n!

P.S. To the person who -repped me, this isn't in the CYOAs section because it isn't a CYOA

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

Well the fact that they thought they needed to work together to fight Elle (their previous behavior being less than amicable) implies they had some ulterior reason to fear her, she was only one human with a sword at the height of her adventure so far so its not unthinkable that they somehow expected some kind of intervention (to a point) maybe not in this exact way, but maybe there is some conflict brewing between pink+blue and the others (and they wanted to prevent pink+blue from recruiting Elle)

I'm very interested to see why black and green worked together, despite the dysfunctional nature of their princesses/queen

 

[Dracador]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

I see a new development: http://www.ulmf.org/bbs/showpost.php?p=370904&postcount=358

So, it seems that humans can learn to use a form of magic from tentacles. Interesting

With regard to the post, I see how the battleaxe could be useful, but I think that it'd be far too easy to get surprised and not be able to use it at all due to its weight - not a problem with a lighter weapon. The mace would be difficult to use, although the shield that goes with it might be nice. It'd probably just wind up as an encumberance though. The staff would be good for utility purposes, but we need a weapon to go marching boldly into tentacle lairs, and the candlestick holder... mementoes are all well and good but they're highly unlikely to stave off a hungry tentacle

 

[Serifyn]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

The 'Magic' which Zoey used was related to the slime she they both ingested in order to participation in the ritual to connect their minds.

Thought not explained fully (as they were both semi-conscious) Zoey was able to tell Ella's body to accelerate the pregnancy. When she stopped Ella, she basically put her brain into standby mode so that she could get away, a trick she had learned from the tentacles and years of being mind linked with them.

 

[4access69]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

@Minerve:
I will try to answer your mother question (maybe Serifyn explains it better later on).

So, the creature is growing inside of Ella. It is in the egg shell which means no direct contact but the slime used to keep it in place and the shell probably have conductive abilities or it wouldn't be able to feed off your energy.

The creature is conscious and as such it can feel Ella and sense her thoughts and emotions as it grows inside of her knowing that she is giving him life, and that he should not harm her.

Upon birth, Ella and the creature are fully mind-linked. She becomes fully aware of it after she sees him and given that it crawled out of her womb her maternal instincts say she should nurture him and protect him as if it were her own child.

This behavior happens in nature (see

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, but also it happens with other species to raise a cub as if it was their own), and such "children" are rarely rejected so by voting for Ella to kill her "child" you actually tried fighting against the nature itself and its maternal instincts which was bound to fail and it did.

I also said that we will most likely lose divine favor if we go down the "kill them all" route, and we lost it because in trying to kill every tentacle indiscriminately we no longer sought balance which the deity was trying to restore by aiding us.

Ethan was a chance for both redemption of all tentacles and for salvation of humanity, and you tried to mercilessly kill that chance. Do you think Olivia's and Ella's path crossed by pure chance when Ella was doomed to suffer the fate of a Black Tentacle slave? Think again... it was a divine intervention -- Ethan was a gift from the deity which you have now rejected.

We had a chance to shape Ethan, and with him shape the future of humanity. Instead, you have chosen blind and ignorant rage path, succumbing to "like father, like child" mentality, and as a consequence you now have Zoey shaping your "child" to her liking which can't be beneficial to humanity given her allegiance, submission, treachery and dangerous powers she wields. As it stands, we are now on the champion path, but on its losing, rather than winning, branch.

Continuing down this path will only lead to more rage and ignorant blindness until Ella turns into a monster indiscriminately killing everything in her way including the ones she set out to save until she gets overwhelmed and enslaved.

A farewell note to censuur:
- You have proven several times that you are too stupid and 2-Dimensional to understand things discussed here even though understanding them only required some common sense, not Mensa level IQ you claimed to have.
- You kept asking for arguments, dismissing them as invalid as soon I presented them because you didn't agree (or, more likely, couldn't understand), and then asked for more arguments.
- You kept insulting me with ad hominem attacks both in Serifyn's CYOA thread and via PM, and behaving like a troll and a zealot.
You are now on my ignore list so I cannot see (nor I have any desire to read) your retarded diatribes. Trying to argue with me further either by PM or in any of the CYOA threads is therefore pointless.

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

I'll warn you ahead of time, this post will probably be somewhat offensive. This is me voicing my concerns and I realize this is rather harsh criticism, I personally consider this a show of respect, but I understand not everyone shares that perspective, hence the warning.


It seems you've set your mind as to what should happen in the story, you've downright subverted our choice to kill the tentacle spawn by giving Zoey a convenient ability (even more convenient because drinking the slime in the first place made no sense) And I can think of no reason for the tentacles to teach Zoey this ability in the first place, she's no princess and the ability itself is utterly pointless except in this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. In short, I feel this is a cop-out.

In your previous posts you've made it fairly obvious that you do not want Elle to be an aggressive character, I won't be making quotes here, but you kept insisting that indiscriminate murder of tentacles was bad (even calling killing the princesses murder in a negative context) Two choices ago it was clear you did not want us picking the option to kill the princesses, commenting negatively toward people arguing to kill the princesses (again, calling it murder and implying the character would be worse for it) and reinforcing the notion that everything would be fine if we went along with Zoey.

Personally, I found your stories best when they were about the struggle, in part one where Laura was trying, and failing, to escape. It went down-hill for me once she started willingly dealing with blue, rather than accepting it as a necessary evil. Same for chapter two, as the character was struggling to meet the demands of its environment and put itself in a position of power, then suddenly the main character dies, is replaced by another and put in a position where the only option is essentially "go fuck some more" And finally, the current story was brilliant where the character was trying to maintain herself, trying to pick the best options to avoid getting raped. Then suddenly attempting to not be raped was no longer a real option and our options were no longer about "how" but turned into either surrendering or fighting on.

In terms of storytelling, the choices were no longer about "will your choice allow the character to succeed in her attempt to avoid getting raped", where there was a clearly defined "success" and "failure". The choices turned into "what are your views on morality" and the choices being neither right or wrong, the struggle was no longer in character, keeping the tentacles off of us, and instead turned out of character, trying to convince others of our point of view (or simply voting for our point of view to win)

Basically my "complaint" here is that when you choose to play an RPG, and its a brilliant RPG that you really enjoy, having it turn into an FPS halfway through isn't what I came for, that doesn't mean either RPG or FPS is bad, but the product loses focus, if that makes sense. Same principle applies here, I come to read a story about escaping from tentacles, having that turn into a "choose your sex scene" toward the middle or "pick what type of story you want" is somewhat disappointing.


I'm not trying to say what you're doing is right or wrong, people are obviously into different aspects of your story and you are by no means obliged to cater to my tastes. I merely try to explain my thoughts/opinions on the matter, do with it what you want.

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

such "children" are rarely rejected

Utterly wrong, such children are rarely accepted, parents are more likely to reject their own flesh and blood (and this does actually happen quite a bit) than accept that which is not their own.

And we're not talking any "child" (if you can even call it that) We're talking a product of rape, which are more often aborted than kept, and even the ones that are kept are often given up for adoption. And we're not just talking any kind of rape, we're talking rape by the creatures that set her on the path of genocide (destroying entire tentacle lairs)

"maternal instincts" trigger over a very long period of time (its partially a chemical reaction that takes months to set in) and even the thought of having maternal instincts for a parasitic rape and murder beast like the tentacles is utterly sickening (Hence I really don't like Zoey)

I also commented on how unfathomably naive your suggesting of "shaping" this creature is, so I won't bother repeating myself.

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

Allow me to point out your folly in pointing out brood parasitism and how wrong your interpretation of it here, I merely need to quote the page you linked.

"Female parasitic cuckoos sometimes specialize and lay eggs that closely resemble the eggs of their chosen host. This has been produced by natural selection, as some birds are able to distinguish cuckoo eggs from their own, leading to those eggs least like the host's being thrown out of the nest."

If the host is not fooled, the egg is rejected (and you just try fooling a human in that same sense, if it doesn't even really work in egg to egg transfer)

"Some adult parasitic cuckoos will completely destroy the host's clutch if they reject the cuckoo egg.[18] In this case, raising the cuckoo chick is less of a cost than the alternative—total clutch destruction."

When the eggs do get accepted it can just be because of the threat of the alternative, not because the host is maternal over the eggs.

But I give you too much credit already, the concept of brood parasitism applies to birds and the context is so widely different that to link it to Elle's hypothetical situation is simply foolish.

Other examples of having maternal feelings toward something that isn't your own child (same species or not) in terms of humanity spring from the matrons desire to have or care for something or simply nurture maternal feelings, back to our hypothetical situation Elle has had no desire (the complete opposite) to sire tentacles/children or take care of others (hell her very description is "loner")

And then there's the difference between having maternal feelings and thinking you have maternal feelings (the psychological placebo effect) and this works in the same manner as you have either biological homosexuality (the way your brain is wired makes you attracted to your own gender) or psychological homosexuality (You're gay because you think your gay, though fairly rare and doesn't last very long it can be a permanent condition due to the way the human brain works in terms of auto-verification) Another common example is thinking you're in love (usually out of a desire to love, or be loved)

Your attempt is interesting though, but do some more research before making such an uninformed argument

 

[Serifyn]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

You are entitled to your own opinion, obviously, however, as the the author, it is my job to ensure that there is a story behind the rape and violence.

You've been particularly critical of my decisions on how Ella is represented, and i knew that in writing up a choice which didnt actually include the death of the tentacle creature you'd have a problem with that too, and thats fine.

This isnt a RPG or a FPS, it is my own creation which has been strung together based on decisions regarding the story that you have helped me make. Im sorry if Ella isn't bloodthirsty enough for your tastes, ive tried hard to make her a complex character who although easily fooled, tries to have a conscious and a tries her best with the limited resources available to her.

I could take the easy route with Ella, have her make every correct decision and never fail regardless of any choice we make, she would predictably cut through every obstacle in her path and make for a very boring and predictable CYOA where the rest of the characters are simply pawns to be knocked out whenever she was tired of looking at them.

The Trials a characters faces is what allows them to reveal their personality, and the characters having a personality and a conscience s is something you seem to have a huge problem with for whatever reason.

If a stone cold killer who always make the correct decision, who never fails because you as the writer have given her your own omniscience is the character who you want to see, then by all means create them in your own CYOA.

I don't claim to be the best character writer, but i do know that nobody wants to read about a dull and predictable cliche and her adventures through the dull and cliqued setting.

And 'not to be harsh', but ive written 2 CYOAs already that people seem to enjoy, so i dont need you to rescue me from myself when it comes to making critical decisions regarding the story.

And Lastly, you've all made it abundantly clear how much you didn't like The blue Overlord Laura was aligned with in TLE getting killed suddenly, or how Lazuli died in TLE:O, but sudden changes in the pace of the story are necessary in the continued evolution of the characters and the direction they all take, if i was afraid to kill anyone id be just like all of the dopey writers of real stories who are more successful than me who do nothing but create a story that everyone knows will end because they are afraid to take a risk of offending the audience with a plot twist.

Ive taken the risk and likely will again.

 

[Serifyn]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

@Censuur

Btw all of your posts go like this, i dont mean to be harsh but im sure censuur will understand and take it as a sign of respect.

"Im going to say some shit, and you arent going to like it, but im going to post it anyway so i can make it excruciatingly clear that not only am i right, but that you know my opinion. im sure the author will take it as a sign of respect

blah blah blah blah blah blah, information as it relates to reality, blah blah blah, scientific fact that you should have already known, blah blah blah, i would have done it this way, blah blah blah blah, loner, blah blah

btw keep up the good work "

By the way, keep up the good work

 

[4access69]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

@Censuur

...some serious nose rubbing...

ROFL

Btw, keep up the good work

Below is my answer to Minerve so we don't clutter the CYOA thread:

We don't care : we already tried to kill him, we will try again at our next encounter. (And we could kill Zoey, next time, too)

Yes, I see that some people don't care for the RPG aspect of the story, because that requires thinking ahead and making carefull choices, they are better suited for playing a mindless linear FPS like Doom or Quake

If you try again you will fail again, and next time more likely with considerably harsher consequences, because Serifyn will not allow you to kill a character pivotal to the story.

For now : we've got Da map. I'm fine with that.

You could have had the map with option C too, and maybe even some help from Zoey in form of advice, skill, or item, for being reasonable and accepting a compromise/coexistence.

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

I've not hidden my inability to properly express myself, and wouldn't. Due to past experiences it's obvious that people often take offense to the way I put things, prompting me to explain my intentions (or try to) until I am able to solve this problem (of being interpreted as offensive) I try to reinforce that by ending the message on an amicable note, though it seems I have taken that too far.

I understand full well why the events in the first two stories happened as they did, I seem to have misunderstood something as I thought you felt you had backed yourself into a corner (twice in the same fashion, development of the character became "predictable"), and I subsequently made the argument to make Elle's development stagnant and predictable (making the choice to keep killing the tentacles too easy) which was a mistake on my part. What I wanted as a reader seems to conflict what you want as the writer, and I have been far too forceful about my opinion.

I make no excuses for the fact that I'm trying to make the story go the way I would like it to go, as I suspect is the same for everyone voting(and is kind of the point of a CYOA) but I realize I've been too forceful and apologize for it. The reason I am so vocal about it is due the potential of the setting and the excellence in writing so far, you yourself mentioned this was a learning experience and I figured criticism might be beneficial to that endeavor, though that doesn't excuse that I went too far.

In regards to the respect matter I mentioned, I respect people that can take criticism without it needing to be packaged in compliments and soft words, the point of my previous posting was to summarize my criticism on the story and as such it looks as though I'm being overly critical, and I can understand that makes my statement at the end feel insincere.

I don't give compliments lightly, and that's something a lot of people find disagreeable. I never believe myself to be right, and the things I do are more focussed in getting proof that I am wrong (hence the rather provocative nature of my arguments, I'm trying to get more information, more perspective)

Anyway, I understand my posting has become something of a bother, which has not been my intention, I apologize for that and will stop. I'll be looking forward to the rest of the story despite what my harsh commentary implies.

 

[Dracador]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

It seems that support is thin on the ground for you Serifyn, at least vocally. I think there's nothing wrong with this latest turn of events; it seems sensible for Zoey to want to protect tentacles (even though this one's of a different colour... hmm. Maybe due to the slime and the mind-link?) using any means possible. You even provided a reasonable explanation for how she was able to. As for the likeness to the catastrophic events in the previous installments, this is nothing like they were; they gave the impression that all the decisions up until that point had been worthless (which is why some people complained about them at the time) but here we're continuing the same quest with more information and more reliable gear.

Off-topic somewhat, why can't we all strive to get along? Seems that someone's taking their online interations far too seriously ^-^

tl;dr: Keep up the good writing!

 

[censuur]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

Let me just make one last thing clear, just because I wanted Elle to never give up struggling against impossible odds doesn't mean I want her to succeed. The current events in the story are great, my only complaint was the form, the fact that the mind-link magic was a bit contrived while Zoey could've just made a run for it, leaving Elle staring as they ran off. My choice was never to turn Elle into some rampaging berserker, my choice was to have Elle never submit no matter the cost.

 

[Minerve]

Re: TLE:A Discussion thread

I won't answer to the rest of your post 'cause, I don't need any more arguments, it was just a question.

I also said that we will most likely lose divine favor if we go down the "kill them all" route, and we lost it because in trying to kill every tentacle indiscriminately we no longer sought balance which the deity was trying to restore by aiding us.

Ethan was a chance for both redemption of all tentacles and for salvation of humanity, and you tried to mercilessly kill that chance. Do you think Olivia's and Ella's path crossed by pure chance when Ella was doomed to suffer the fate of a Black Tentacle slave? Think again... it was a divine intervention -- Ethan was a gift from the deity which you have now rejected.

Yeah but ... As i've already written it : we had only two choices. To kill or to submit. However, so, we should lose the "divine favor" (fuck, why "divine" ? Why is there always God(s) ?). So ... I don't really understand all that.

Yeah, you talked about the C and not killing the little "Ethan" (shit, why should we call it by a name Oo ?) but all the people who voted B voted B 'cause there wasn't the C. Many of them didn't read that there was a C : we cannot blame them if we are "in shit" and if "you told us".

Anyway, I'm quite fine with what is going on ^^