Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
What a well reasoned and levelheaded response.
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FruitSmoothie
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
I like how everything thinks they're an expert on copyright laws lol. I believe the laws are different depending on where you're from. I'm pretty sure even non profit fanart is technically copyright infringement in the USA, big businesses just kind of ignore it since you know, internet (There's no possible way to stop it all and wouldn't be worth the time to try). I think some people forget that an artist created these characters and they belong to them/their company like any character an amateur artist creates.
If you know some artists, ask them if they'd like people drawing/using their characters in games/ads/videos/whatever else without their permission. They'll probably say no, or something along the lines of: "Well, I can't really stop them, so who cares.". It's just not cool, especially if they're using them in a way that are against your morales/beliefs. So I totally get where they're coming from. I'd be all for people porning my characters up in regular fanart, but if somebody used my characters in some racist-hate video for example, I'd be pissed.
I think I made a comment earlier in this thread about how it was silly of them to invest so much time in a game using characters they didn't own for this very reason. No way to really make money off of it, legal problems, etc, etc.
I like how everything thinks they're an expert on copyright laws lol. I believe the laws are different depending on where you're from. I'm pretty sure even non profit fanart is technically copyright infringement in the USA, big businesses just kind of ignore it since you know, internet (There's no possible way to stop it all and wouldn't be worth the time to try). I think some people forget that an artist created these characters and they belong to them/their company like any character an amateur artist creates.
If you know some artists, ask them if they'd like people drawing/using their characters in games/ads/videos/whatever else without their permission. They'll probably say no, or something along the lines of: "Well, I can't really stop them, so who cares.". It's just not cool, especially if they're using them in a way that are against your morales/beliefs. So I totally get where they're coming from. I'd be all for people porning my characters up in regular fanart, but if somebody used my characters in some racist-hate video for example, I'd be pissed.
I think I made a comment earlier in this thread about how it was silly of them to invest so much time in a game using characters they didn't own for this very reason. No way to really make money off of it, legal problems, etc, etc.
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Nimrod
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
Copyright laws are shaky at best, as long as you can prove you are not making a profit, or causing the original author/IP owner a loss, it all falls under parody(under the international copyright law), so even if they try to sue you the best they can achieve is to force you to shut down your site, because there is no basis to request a monetary sanction.
All you have to do is move it.
There is not even a need to go to court to defend yourself, you can just lose and go on your way like nothing happened, the company maintains the rights over the IP by proving they can contest it and you do whatever you want.
That said all i got from the zeta forum is about a malware problem, so as far as i am concerned you are all talking bullshit about sega with no reason.
Because you can't think out of the box.
Copyright laws are shaky at best, as long as you can prove you are not making a profit, or causing the original author/IP owner a loss, it all falls under parody(under the international copyright law), so even if they try to sue you the best they can achieve is to force you to shut down your site, because there is no basis to request a monetary sanction.
All you have to do is move it.
There is not even a need to go to court to defend yourself, you can just lose and go on your way like nothing happened, the company maintains the rights over the IP by proving they can contest it and you do whatever you want.
That said all i got from the zeta forum is about a malware problem, so as far as i am concerned you are all talking bullshit about sega with no reason.
Yuan-Tiki
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
Which is a pretty big thing to risk over a silly little porn game. You could literally get to the point where you win the case and become homeless because you've had to spend your life savings on legal fees.
I've been involved, distantly, in similar discussions before. The long and the short of it is, at least as far as I understand, that there are several ways Sega could approach a case like this, legally speaking. Simply intending to make money that should have been theirs is only one thing they could bring against you, and not contesting the case is a problem because they will go in seeking specific damages, meaning you would have to shell out for a lawyer or represent yourself in court in order to argue against their case for the damages involved.
Which is a pretty big thing to risk over a silly little porn game. You could literally get to the point where you win the case and become homeless because you've had to spend your life savings on legal fees.
kiko
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
You guys are way off the fucking topic. Like we give a fuck about copyright laws... I just wish that they continue developing this awesome game. Fuck SEGA and Atlus!
You guys are way off the fucking topic. Like we give a fuck about copyright laws... I just wish that they continue developing this awesome game. Fuck SEGA and Atlus!
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Ryka
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
I have reason to believe that they can continue this project. They must be a little more secretive about it. Zeta could just become a member here, instead of making a forum solely dedicated to her game.
Another thing the team can do, is remake the game, taking out everything original about the sonic franchise. SEGA will then have no case to go on but the "art style", which the judge will then laugh at.
Though a lot of things could be compromised, but it could save this game. It is one of the rare games with a close up of eggs and sperms. I have yet to find another game that does this.
I have reason to believe that they can continue this project. They must be a little more secretive about it. Zeta could just become a member here, instead of making a forum solely dedicated to her game.
Another thing the team can do, is remake the game, taking out everything original about the sonic franchise. SEGA will then have no case to go on but the "art style", which the judge will then laugh at.
Though a lot of things could be compromised, but it could save this game. It is one of the rare games with a close up of eggs and sperms. I have yet to find another game that does this.
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
Atlus was only filtered and transferred into Sega over the course of last month. Name the last "solid" thing Sega developed? And what are some games that Atlus did right that wasn't just published by them or taken from someone else?
Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
Parody is allowed to make a profit, but only as long as it can be contested as parody in court. Profit does not enter into it. It's one of the longest-lasting myths of the internet, where one can claim no profit being made as a defense in regards to intellectual property.
None of this means that I support much of the ridiculous nature of current intellectual property laws, but I'm also not going to delude myself as to how things stand at present.
It has nothing to do with my ability to 'think outside the box'. Also, you are confusing trademarks with copyright in your latter paragraphs with regards to 'proving they can contest it'. It would be trademarks that you have to contest on every occasion in order to maintain it, this does not apply to copyrights.
Parody is allowed to make a profit, but only as long as it can be contested as parody in court. Profit does not enter into it. It's one of the longest-lasting myths of the internet, where one can claim no profit being made as a defense in regards to intellectual property.
None of this means that I support much of the ridiculous nature of current intellectual property laws, but I'm also not going to delude myself as to how things stand at present.
SethK
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
The Megami Tensei/Shin Megami Tensei games?
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
The only acceptable answer and one that doesn't apply to 3 of the 4 major gaming markets. That series is the only good thing to come out of Atlus and I'm supposed to act all happy that they went bankrupt and were picked up by Sega? Oh hell, let's ring the fucking welcome bells, eh kyo?
The only acceptable answer and one that doesn't apply to 3 of the 4 major gaming markets. That series is the only good thing to come out of Atlus and I'm supposed to act all happy that they went bankrupt and were picked up by Sega? Oh hell, let's ring the fucking welcome bells, eh kyo?
SethK
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
Still wish the rumour that Nintendo was buying them out had turned out to be true.
Sega buying Atlus.. Bah.
As for games by Sega.. Last solid thing I tried from them was Sonic Racing Transformed, and I only bought that cause a friend of mine convinced me to pick it up off a steam sale.
Though I've heard Sonic 4 and Sonic Generations were okay. No plans to buy either though.
-Shrug- I happen to love the SMT series enough to want Atlus to continue making them.
Still wish the rumour that Nintendo was buying them out had turned out to be true.
Sega buying Atlus.. Bah.
As for games by Sega.. Last solid thing I tried from them was Sonic Racing Transformed, and I only bought that cause a friend of mine convinced me to pick it up off a steam sale.
Though I've heard Sonic 4 and Sonic Generations were okay. No plans to buy either though.
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Nimrod
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
@Toxic
At the very least Sega is not EA, that put's everything into a new perspective...
They are not reproducing a product that is property of sega they are abusing a trademark without direct permission, the hell you're talking about?
If you win, it's the loser that pays procedural expense, at least in civilized countries, people have risked a lot more for a lot less, i'm just saying.
@Toxic
At the very least Sega is not EA, that put's everything into a new perspective...
Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
The characters are property of Sega. Replication of them is covered under copyright.
The Sega logo is a trademark of Sega.
Incidentally, since ProjectX both displayed the Sega logo at the beginning of their game and used their characters, Sega can attack them both for copyright and trademark infringement.
Well, you certainly just proved that you have no idea what copyright or trademarks are.
The characters are property of Sega. Replication of them is covered under copyright.
The Sega logo is a trademark of Sega.
Incidentally, since ProjectX both displayed the Sega logo at the beginning of their game and used their characters, Sega can attack them both for copyright and trademark infringement.
Nimrod
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
And you prove to care more about winning an argument by downplaying you're interlocutor's knowledge than producing any valuable insight on what you say to be the truth, but since i'm too lazy to keep this up i'll just drop it here, you win, have a nice day.
You speak as if a trademark and a logo are the same exact thing.
And you prove to care more about winning an argument by downplaying you're interlocutor's knowledge than producing any valuable insight on what you say to be the truth, but since i'm too lazy to keep this up i'll just drop it here, you win, have a nice day.
Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
...No, I spoke of them as if they were two completely different things. I even elucidated some of the differences between their enforcement, and on how ProjectX violated both. Might want to brush up on your reading comprehension?
Fenril
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
I'd have to disagree with the Atlus criticism. So far, and Atlus game I've played has been solid and they don't get the attention they deserve. They're a small, solid company and have my respect as a solid game developer, and I've yet to see them pull any bullshit like Sega has been doing (ex. Project X, Let's Plays, etc.)
Secondly, just to clear things up a bit: Atlus didn't go backrupt. It was the company that was above the previously, that they just happened to be under the same umbrella of. It's kind like how Sega is to them, now. Sega's also said officially that they're going to let Atlus continue on as they do now. They've also said that Atlus can do what they want with any dormant Sega IP, so they're giving Atlus a lot of freedom and more options than they had previously.
Hopefully it stays that way and Sega doesn't go back on their word. Remember, this IS Sega we're dealing with.
Anyways, I am a bit saddened by the news that Sega did this to Project X. The game is solid and I first played it in version 3. Although recently, there was another legal problem with Slavemaker, but it was debunked as a fake Cease and Decist Order (on Renamon being a slave in that game, no less). Has anyone taken steps to check the legal claims on Project X to see if they're legit?
I'd have to disagree with the Atlus criticism. So far, and Atlus game I've played has been solid and they don't get the attention they deserve. They're a small, solid company and have my respect as a solid game developer, and I've yet to see them pull any bullshit like Sega has been doing (ex. Project X, Let's Plays, etc.)
Secondly, just to clear things up a bit: Atlus didn't go backrupt. It was the company that was above the previously, that they just happened to be under the same umbrella of. It's kind like how Sega is to them, now. Sega's also said officially that they're going to let Atlus continue on as they do now. They've also said that Atlus can do what they want with any dormant Sega IP, so they're giving Atlus a lot of freedom and more options than they had previously.
Hopefully it stays that way and Sega doesn't go back on their word. Remember, this IS Sega we're dealing with.
Anyways, I am a bit saddened by the news that Sega did this to Project X. The game is solid and I first played it in version 3. Although recently, there was another legal problem with Slavemaker, but it was debunked as a fake Cease and Decist Order (on Renamon being a slave in that game, no less). Has anyone taken steps to check the legal claims on Project X to see if they're legit?
Papanomics
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FruitSmoothie
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Re: Project X: New update v4.0 released 8th March 2013
How about we close this thread? Seems it went way off topic. If the game is halted indefinitely (I don't even know if it really is), there's not really anything left to discuss.
How about we close this thread? Seems it went way off topic. If the game is halted indefinitely (I don't even know if it really is), there's not really anything left to discuss.