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Nearfatal Paetron up.


Apathy

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about american bureaucracy, but i'm fairly sure you can set up health care and make a retirememnt plan with your bank as a freelance, like you can do in pretty much every single nation of the first world.
Nope. At $1800 a month, unless the guy was in one of a few select states, he would be unable to get health coverage and still eat. He wouldn't need to set up a saving plan because he wouldn't be saving anything unless he lives with his parents or something.
 

HentaiWriter

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Again, let me note, I'm not defending or attacking anyone here, I just wanted to lay a few facts straight;

$1800 a month is actually about 50 cents to $2 an hour less than US minimum wage, assuming 40 hours a week of full time work.
Actually false: the highest minimum wage in the entire country is $11 an hour, in San Francisco, and everywhere else is dramatically lower (California as a state is the second highest with $9.75 an hour, most other places are around $9-7 an hour).

Even at San Francisco's amount, $11 an hour, you're still looking at only $1760 a month, and that's before taxes, which will knock it down to about $1500 if you're lucky.

Minimum wage in California would be $1560 a month, which would bring you down to about $1300 after taxes or so.

That said, if you're making $1800 a month off of self employed income, you're going to get taxed heavily, and even with a guy doing your taxes for you that knows all the deductions you could make, you're looking at around 15-20% of your income getting nailed, which brings that down to $1530, which would still make it slightly over minimum wage for anywhere in the entire country.

Also, just personally, I have no retirement fund because I intend to work until the day I die; retiring and sitting around just going on vacations or whatever would bore the shit out of me, lol.

Anyway, I think a lot of people use Patreon for this simply because they turn a blind eye to adult projects. Pretty much your only other choice is OffBeatr, and they take a MASSIVE cut of your funds off the top.
This is by far and above the major reason. Offbeatr takes a huge portion of funds and DLSite takes even more, and DLSite is by far and above only viable if you have a Japanese translator (paying DLSite to translate it through Curious Factory will annihilate your wallet, lol).

Patreon takes pennies, comparatively, if you abide by their rules.

Unless his entire advertisement agency goes under or he fucks up as an employee, then he's going to have a stable career.
Again not defending Nearfatal, dunno who he is, but just to note this is also mostly false; office jobs, any job really, is just as unstable in today's economy as any other job.

I worked three office jobs in the past two years;

The first job I was let go at the end of the project despite overwhelmingly outperforming everyone else at the company at my level (this was confirmed by both co-workers and multiple people above me). Near the end of the project, most of the employees at the job were coming to me for advice on how to work stuff instead of our superior, because he was incompetent at what he did.

The reason I was let go was because a certain person above me was outright raging at the fact that I was practically flooding them with work (I'd have to send them my work which they'd then have to submit to the central databank), because they generally liked to screw around on Facebook all day long at work.

So, since that person had significant clout in the company, despite people above him praising my work, I was let go.

Same thing happened in the next job; outperformed most people, got let go due to people fearing losing their jobs.

Third job, I eventually ended up doing the jobs of four or five different people, well beyond what I was hired for (and was asked to do these extra jobs as well), got no pay raise despite the particular work that I was doing would be something that you'd be getting paid in the triple figures per hour for at most other companies (I was getting 10/hr), and as such, you guessed it, the work environment was again hostile.

After those jobs, I got sick of working in environments where you got punished for working your ass off, and others around you got rewarded for jerking off and never getting a damn thing done. (Note that I never bragged about any of these things, never rubbed it in other people's faces, always tried to be humble and help other people out with any problems they'd come to me for, etc.)

That's why I've been doing indie game development and so forth ever since; here, you get rewarded for working your ass off and the people you work with are generally hard workers who also are sick of similar situations happening to them, so it's a hell of a lot less stressful and a hell of a lot more enjoyable, and so forth.

Nope. At $1800 a month, unless the guy was in one of a few select states, he would be unable to get health coverage and still eat. He wouldn't need to set up a saving plan because he wouldn't be saving anything unless he lives with his parents or something.
Not true. My health coverage is $50 a month, I'm not on welfare; Obamacare has made health insurance insanely cheap for most people.
That said, health coverage is also REALLY bad now, and almost every doctor I've went to on this new health plan has been REALLY, REALLY bad.
 

Challenger06

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

My problem with Patreon is, as always, a non-steady stream of content.

I like supporting people, but after sometime you've ended up spending more on a still un-finished game than you would on a AAA game.

I understand that his problem isn't enough people pledging, but at the same time, it shouldn't be what keeps a person from working on a project, because without a steady stream of good quality work, he'll never have enough backers.

I'd pledge if A: I see him personally participate in a community, or B: If I start to see a steady stream of quality content.
To be honest, I already an unsteady feeling about Patreon...mainly the same thought you have bud.
You spend money to support ---> Still unfinished game ---> More likely scammed.
 

stuntcock42

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

You spend money to support ---> Still unfinished game ---> More likely scammed.
You're missing the point. Kickstarter is about supporting projects with fixed goals and deliverables (such as product development or game creation). Patreon is about supporting creators - especially those whose work is difficult to commercialize or highly susceptible to piracy.

A great example is . The guy literally gives his game away for free. Every single asset is on a . If you just want the porn, then there's no reason to ever give the guy a cent. If you really like the game, then you could support him by waiting for it to be released and then buying a copy. But the development is based on open source, community contribution, and "perpetual development" - so a conventional boxed release is more of a PR milestone than a concrete deliverable. Steady funding is more appropriate for both sides -- each month, you toss in a few dollars and get a few more hours of gameplay. Fenoxo can pay his bills, and he can use any surplus funds to hire the services of writers, artists, etc... thus expanding and improving the game. The total amount that you end up contributing is probably more than what you'd pay for the game at retail, but you don't feel cheated or betrayed -- you trust the author to "pay it forward" into new projects.


Of course, Kickstarter has been around for a while, and it has shaped popular expectations for crowdfunding. Therefore many Patreon users are forced to adopt a hybrid model - with periodic deadlines, reward tiers, early access, etc... This isn't necessarily bad per se -- it may force lackadaisical artists to become more businesslike (e.g. regular hours --> greater productivity) and sharpen their communication skills. But it fosters an unhealthy culture in which donors see artists as [money in --> artwork out] robots, and see themselves simply as consumers of finished products. The internet enables people to be much more active participants in the creative process, even without specialized tools or skills. But many people prefer to simply complain about missed deadlines rather than offering constructive criticism, asking about character motivations, filing bug reports, fixing minor scripting errors in the code repository, etc...


If you like the creator and trust him to continue making cool stuff, then consider sending money to his Patreon. If you don't know the creator, or don't trust him, then feel free to wait for a demo, check the reviews, and buy the game only if it meets your standards.
 

Caffeinated

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

In all the acrimonious debate recently, there seems to be a distinct disconnect in the camps. One argues about the validity of Patreon, and the other is worried about being scammed.

The two camps are not mutually exclusive, there is a very real chance people could get scammed. It is also a perfectly valid platform for reasons already discussed.

Bottom line is pretty simple, if you're worried/don't trust that particular creator... don't support them. If they have a proven track record or you're willing to take the risk of either being scammed or simply not having your expectations met.. by all means support.
 

Spastus

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

You're missing the point. Kickstarter is about supporting projects with fixed goals and deliverables (such as product development or game creation). Patreon is about supporting creators - especially those whose work is difficult to commercialize or highly susceptible to piracy.
I've always seen it like that, patreon should be about supporting someone while they do their regular content, like youtubers, musicians, etc. the creation of a game, in my mind, is more akin to kickstarter than patreon, you get helped to create a product and then deliver; constantly supporting the ceration of a big product is nice and all but undermines the point, again in my mind, of being a patron. Having to pull pledges once you get what you want and I guess when production is over sounds like promoting a selfish attitude towards the whole concept of patreon, in that case a “per update” or “per product” pledge would make more sense.
 
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HentaiWriter

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

To be honest, I already an unsteady feeling about Patreon...mainly the same thought you have bud.
You spend money to support ---> Still unfinished game ---> More likely scammed.
Just to point something out, Kickstarter has a far, far higher rate of "scammers" than Patreon has.

Additionally, the rate of pledges on Kickstarter is much higher (as in, most projects have $500-$10,000 level pledges if they're a large project), and once you pledge that lump sum, it could be years before you see anything from it, if at all.

I pledged $400 to a project on Kickstarter, got nothing back because they took the money and ran.

I'd much rather pledge a smaller amount on Patreon for one month, then continue pledging if I deemed them to be reputable etc.

Also note that with Kickstarter, they get the lump sum in one go; after that, they have *literally no incentive* to get the project done ASAP besides being good businessmen/women and having the morals to not screw over their customers.

Conversely, with Patreon, when pledges can be pulled at any time, Patreon page owners have a much stronger incentive on top of that, which is that if they don't deliver in the eyes of their Patrons, said patrons can immediately pull support and they lose our on their monthly/per release/per week/whatever funds.

tl;dr Kickstarter is riskier and costs more for the good stuff than Patreon does, objectively.
 

an anonymous

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Just to point something out, Kickstarter has a far, far higher rate of "scammers" than Patreon has.

Additionally, the rate of pledges on Kickstarter is much higher (as in, most projects have $500-$10,000 level pledges if they're a large project), and once you pledge that lump sum, it could be years before you see anything from it, if at all.

I pledged $400 to a project on Kickstarter, got nothing back because they took the money and ran.

I'd much rather pledge a smaller amount on Patreon for one month, then continue pledging if I deemed them to be reputable etc.

Also note that with Kickstarter, they get the lump sum in one go; after that, they have *literally no incentive* to get the project done ASAP besides being good businessmen/women and having the morals to not screw over their customers.

Conversely, with Patreon, when pledges can be pulled at any time, Patreon page owners have a much stronger incentive on top of that, which is that if they don't deliver in the eyes of their Patrons, said patrons can immediately pull support and they lose our on their monthly/per release/per week/whatever funds.

tl;dr Kickstarter is riskier and costs more for the good stuff than Patreon does, objectively.
dude you have way too much money:eek:

can you give me some to? (just joking):)

but seriously if they already stolen 400 bugs from you:eek:
wy you keep giving money to strangers for nothing then empty promises?:confused:

if it's that the reason why you get broke?
then you better stop throwing money at stranger's (just a little advice):D
(can't stop laughing):):):D
 
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HentaiWriter

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

dude you have way too much money:eek:
This was over 2 years ago, when I had a decent paying job; right now my income is less than $600 a month, so yeah, I don't really have money to spare lol

but seriously if they already stolen 400 bugs from you:eek:
wy you keep giving money to strangers for nothing then empty promises?:confused:
Because if you live your life constantly mistrusting people, and constantly being fearful of possibilities, what's the point of living? You gotta take risks sometimes to get rewards, that's life.

All jobs, all people, all things could rob you, scam you, screw you over, etc. but if you sit there worrying about all the negative possibilities, then there's no way you'll be able to experience any positive outcomes.

if it's that the reason why you get broke?
then you better stop throwing money at stranger's (just a little advice):D
(can't stop laughing):):):D
The reason I'm nearly broke now is because my main freelance job that was about 80% of my income had to lay off literally everyone in the company, lol. Had nothing to do with the Kickstarter stuff over 2 years ago.
 

an anonymous

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

This was over 2 years ago, when I had a decent paying job; right now my income is less than $600 a month, so yeah, I don't really have money to spare lol
well why didn't you mentioned that soner:)


Because if you live your life constantly mistrusting people, and constantly being fearful of possibilities, what's the point of living? You gotta take risks sometimes to get rewards, that's life.

All jobs, all people, all things could rob you, scam you, screw you over, etc. but if you sit there worrying about all the negative possibilities, then there's no way you'll be able to experience any positive outcomes.
man that almost sounds like the stuff my little brother always tells me when i remind him to look for a regular job:eek:
(after he begs me for money)

thought he also calls me a boring jaw who youst works and smoke every day even at weekends and holidays:(
(also missed some birthday parties):(

but i always counting by saying that:
well maybe i have a boring life but you have no real job no lasting home
(actuali without me and his friends he would be homeless)
no car, no internet no expensive suits, no money
you can't pay for a good hooker (though he has some sluti girlfriends)
and you stinks like a beer barrel
also doing nothing, but drinking and partying till dawn (at weekends)
(well we always laughs when i mention that part):D

man i love that por lucky bastard as a brother of course(not the gay love):)

and if you haven't noticed it i'm a jaw and my little brother a alcoholic:)
(funny isn't it):D
 

TitanAnteus

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

He's giving away a lot of personal information on a public board you know. Cut him some slack, it's really not easy to have your life open for prying by the public community to gain their trust.
 

Papanomics

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Nearfatal is a no-go.

The only games I've put money into are Skullgirls and Mogi.

Skullgirls has three (almost four) of the five fighters they promised out, and Mogi is moving along (sometimes slowly). I know what I signed up for and I was happy to help them with a game that blew my mind with its demo.
 

Challenger06

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Just to point something out, Kickstarter has a far, far higher rate of "scammers" than Patreon has.

Additionally, the rate of pledges on Kickstarter is much higher (as in, most projects have $500-$10,000 level pledges if they're a large project), and once you pledge that lump sum, it could be years before you see anything from it, if at all.

I pledged $400 to a project on Kickstarter, got nothing back because they took the money and ran.

I'd much rather pledge a smaller amount on Patreon for one month, then continue pledging if I deemed them to be reputable etc.

Also note that with Kickstarter, they get the lump sum in one go; after that, they have *literally no incentive* to get the project done ASAP besides being good businessmen/women and having the morals to not screw over their customers.

Conversely, with Patreon, when pledges can be pulled at any time, Patreon page owners have a much stronger incentive on top of that, which is that if they don't deliver in the eyes of their Patrons, said patrons can immediately pull support and they lose our on their monthly/per release/per week/whatever funds.

tl;dr Kickstarter is riskier and costs more for the good stuff than Patreon does, objectively.
I should have said this sooner, I never been into Patreon, but I read a little bit about it. I know I shouldn't have said anything at first. I was wondering, if that's the case about scammers, what is a good way in trusting some people on there? I guess it's kinda tricky right?

I mean...if you have to support a game that this person (it could be anyone) is developing, how would you know that this person would keep his/her word that they would improve on their game?
 

Challenger06

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

You're missing the point. Kickstarter is about supporting projects with fixed goals and deliverables (such as product development or game creation). Patreon is about supporting creators - especially those whose work is difficult to commercialize or highly susceptible to piracy.

A great example is . The guy literally gives his game away for free. Every single asset is on a . If you just want the porn, then there's no reason to ever give the guy a cent. If you really like the game, then you could support him by waiting for it to be released and then buying a copy. But the development is based on open source, community contribution, and "perpetual development" - so a conventional boxed release is more of a PR milestone than a concrete deliverable. Steady funding is more appropriate for both sides -- each month, you toss in a few dollars and get a few more hours of gameplay. Fenoxo can pay his bills, and he can use any surplus funds to hire the services of writers, artists, etc... thus expanding and improving the game. The total amount that you end up contributing is probably more than what you'd pay for the game at retail, but you don't feel cheated or betrayed -- you trust the author to "pay it forward" into new projects.


Of course, Kickstarter has been around for a while, and it has shaped popular expectations for crowdfunding. Therefore many Patreon users are forced to adopt a hybrid model - with periodic deadlines, reward tiers, early access, etc... This isn't necessarily bad per se -- it may force lackadaisical artists to become more businesslike (e.g. regular hours --> greater productivity) and sharpen their communication skills. But it fosters an unhealthy culture in which donors see artists as [money in --> artwork out] robots, and see themselves simply as consumers of finished products. The internet enables people to be much more active participants in the creative process, even without specialized tools or skills. But many people prefer to simply complain about missed deadlines rather than offering constructive criticism, asking about character motivations, filing bug reports, fixing minor scripting errors in the code repository, etc...


If you like the creator and trust him to continue making cool stuff, then consider sending money to his Patreon. If you don't know the creator, or don't trust him, then feel free to wait for a demo, check the reviews, and buy the game only if it meets your standards.
Okay...I see now! So there is more to it between support in Projects like Kickstarters and the creators in Patreon. I think i see the picture now. Sorry if I did get the point before in time. I'll tell you one thing, they are getting a lot of money from us but it's kind of a risk at the same time, not too severe of a risk though if you know what you're doing. But like I said, I can see where your point is coming from, but I have bad habit of explaining clearly of what I see. lol If I miss a bit of your point, don't be mad dude! D:
 

stuntcock42

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

I mean...if you have to support a game that this person (it could be anyone) is developing, how would you know that this person would keep his/her word that they would improve on their game?
Focus on the past, not the future.

made interactive-fiction porn games in his spare time. He did this for several years without any reliable remuneration, and he kept at it in spite of serious struggles (e.g. divorce). He has communicated openly with his fans, collaborated with artists and co-authors, and helped to shine the spotlight on other games (which a less-decent guy might regard as hostile "competitors").

has created simulation games for more than a decade. He accepts donations, and for the past few years the donations have been sufficient for him to be a full-time indie developer. His update schedule (or "deadline compliance") is lousy, and he tends to work on personal goals (e.g. in-game poetry) instead of what players want (e.g. "fix the damned UI!") but his work is unique and complex enough to support a large modding community.

started a Flash game, abandoned it, started another which proved more popular, and began asking for money about a month after releasing the first playable demo. The game is basically a sex-animation viewer with some simple mechanics, and as soon as he got enough money he hired someone else to do the sex animations (ie. the actual work).
 

Soljer13

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Is there any wayto cheat at Mocreas Universal Axis? Shits too hard.
 

MrMe

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

The cheat code to unlock the gallery is ugugugug or ououououou or something like that.
 

super_slicer

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Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Hrmmm, could swear I already posted this, maybe not, if I did and it was modded for some reason or another then sorry, and please let me know so I don't do it again.

Is there any wayto cheat at Mocreas Universal Axis? Shits too hard.

Did he ever release more than the first episode/demo? If so could anyone PM me with a link?
 
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