Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

[habisain]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

To be clear, Mastercard and Visa are slowly revising/relaxing their regulations when it comes to specific, well established companies; they might do the same for Kimochi as time goes on.

As for what you said, that's what a contract does; if they say it's ok in October, and you sign a contract, then they either have to break that contract (and you get to take them to court) or they have to grandfather you in.

Now, if it's a LEGAL precedent, and not just the credit card companies being butthurt, then yeah, that's a risk and unstable.

Multiple problems with that kind of argument, unfortunately.

No 1. Kimochi isn't yet an established entity, and I'm not convinced that it will necessarily become one. We need more data about the size of demand etc before anything could be inferred about if Kimochi is even viable, let alone enough of a player to negotiate in this kind of way. (Note: not saying it definitely isn't viable or anything - Mikandi exists, which is a similar niche. Just saying more data is necessary before an assumption like this is justified.)
No 2. Kimochi sounds more like a market - in which case the payment services provider only needs to justify that new content violates their policies rather than reclassifying existing content. This would make it pretty easy to terminate a contract, I think (using a standard no objectionable content clause), but I'm not a lawyer.
No 3. Picking a legal fight with a payment services provider would most likely be legal suicide. While the law does play a big part in legal cases, the other part is the lawyers. If you sued a payment services provider, you would likely be heavily outgunned in the courts. Even if you were legally sound, there's a lot of jurisdictions (notably: America) where the payment services provider could drag things on for so long in the courts that they might as well have won, because your company went bankrupt (via lawyers fees/not having a payment services provider and therefore not generating revenue) during the case.

 

[Deleted member 143735]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Work would be best spent on a docker application that had Amazon payments, paypal payments, etc. ready as plugins so more could be developed at any time. Developers could use it to deploy on almost any modern hosting and wouldn't have any weird man in the middle shit going on. They can then deal with any hosting issues as they come instead of ALL going down with this project if/when it does get canned by legal issues. There certainly is not nor will be significant hosting muscle behind this project anytime soon.
-professional's advice

 

[kimochi]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Thanks for all your thoughts. I'd like to clarify both my original post and Thundra's thoughts.

We like how Steam has made it much easier for indie developers to make and sell games. We like how Steam makes it easy for gamers to buy and play games.

We want to work on these things for adult games. Kimochi hasn't solved any of these problems in a meaningful way yet, but we're going to keep releasing updates every damn week until we get there. As we're in beta, we're extremely appreciative for the community's support and comments to steer us to build Kimochi in the right direction.

Here's what our roadmap looks like for the next weeks:

• Getting payment processing ready to go - currently working with several vendors to secure a contract
• Adding new games - if there are any devs that you think want their game on Kimochi, let them know we exist and let us know who they are so we can start a conversation (can email me at michael (at) kimochi.co)
• Support for game patches and minimize bandwidth/hard drive space footprint

 

[erobotan]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

You must be registered to see the links

Seriously, as a stated goal, that sucks. I'd be much happier if you said that you were trying to be the Steam of adult gaming, frankly - at least then I know what you're actually trying to achieve, even if it's a completely unrealistic goal!

Seriously, your argument sucks. How many Hentai forums out there? lots of of them bans commercial stuff too so unless your game is free then you'll get mod warning & your link get removed.

One more H-forum that supports game developer is a good thing because they're rare. And it's going to have a store that support patches too!

 

[thundra]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Multiple problems with that kind of argument, unfortunately.

No 1. Kimochi isn't yet an established entity, and I'm not convinced that it will necessarily become one. We need more data about the size of demand etc before anything could be inferred about if Kimochi is even viable, let alone enough of a player to negotiate in this kind of way. (Note: not saying it definitely isn't viable or anything - Mikandi exists, which is a similar niche. Just saying more data is necessary before an assumption like this is justified.)

It is correct that we are not yet an established and renowned entity. It'd be a little much to expect that from any new startup without working through kinks, and pushing the product along. People will tell you your idea is great, and people will bash your idea. While you can't please everyone, we feel like the project is viable, and have been given a positive vibe as to a need for a consistent platform for adult games in the west, especially of indie devs. Everything at this point is conjecture, and can't be made for certain, but we're certainly going to try.

So, you solve that problem by adding another forum where you have to push your game?

Seriously, as a stated goal, that sucks. I'd be much happier if you said that you were trying to be the Steam of adult gaming, frankly - at least then I know what you're actually trying to achieve, even if it's a completely unrealistic goal!

I apologize if I didn't community clearly, and Kimochi is always free to step in and correct me. As Erobotan said, the forums are merely a tool for interaction between the community. Kimochi's attempt is to streamline the connection between developers and their player base, especially for project teams that are small and less renowned. Instead of pushing their product on various respective forums and hoping people take notice (As kimochi did in its early stages), we aim to have a secure and simplified connection between content developers and consumers. While Steam is a close representation of our ideals, Steam is also heavily geared towards large development companies, and publishing games on the Steam Greenlight can be a nightmare.

We're glad to hear your concerns regardless, as Kimochi is for the community, and negative feedback is still valuable feedback.

(Personally, good choice in representation. If I want my logic to be poked with holes, I'd want it done with XKCD.)

 

[habisain]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

I apologize if I didn't community clearly, and Kimochi is always free to step in and correct me. As Erobotan said, the forums are merely a tool for interaction between the community. Kimochi's attempt is to streamline the connection between developers and their player base, especially for project teams that are small and less renowned. Instead of pushing their product on various respective forums and hoping people take notice (As kimochi did in its early stages), we aim to have a secure and simplified connection between content developers and consumers. While Steam is a close representation of our ideals, Steam is also heavily geared towards large development companies, and publishing games on the Steam Greenlight can be a nightmare.

We're glad to hear your concerns regardless, as Kimochi is for the community, and negative feedback is still valuable feedback.

(Personally, good choice in representation. If I want my logic to be poked with holes, I'd want it done with XKCD.)

Well, that's the kind of thing that I'm much happier to here as a mission statement. I suspect that the 'better' analogy for what you're trying is an app store (well, not the Apple model with unreasonable amounts of vetting) for adult PC games. Maybe a bit like Mikandi, but for the PC.

And indeed: Time will tell if it's viable or not. I wasn't intending that remark to be positive or negative - just a concern that as a new entrant, you are in a relatively weak bargaining position with established players that you have to negotiate with. My main worry really is the endemic piracy in this area - I'd think it's a pretty big problem to overcome.

 

[Okwm]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Wasn't this called Steamy a year ago? Hows the progress on it?

 

[thundra]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Wasn't this called Steamy a year ago? Hows the progress on it?

Yes, it was called Steamy, but we determined that the plausible issue that Steam would take with the name was not worth the risk.

We've since changed our name to Kimochi, as well as rebuilt and relaunched the client so that adding new games is much easier, for developers of both games and Kimochi.

As said before, we're currently working on being able to patch games without the user having to completely reinstall after an update, adding more games to our client, and progress towards securing a contract with a vendor for payment processing.

 

[Bunkercake]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

What you're doing with Kimochi is quite ambitious, but also smart. Your only real competition is DLsite which, while it is well-established, is like comparing Direct2Drive to Steam back when Steam was young. I hope you succeed and end up creating a market that didn't exist as a real entity before. Not only will it serve as a point of income for western devs (who are pretty much all working for free or at the least have almost zero advertising), but it will also attract both Japanese developers and people to translate their games.

One thing Valve did in recent years is really reach out to Japanese companies in order to convince them to put their games on Steam. Once you get Kimochi all set up, I think it would be a good idea for you to do the same with both western and eastern devs. Hell, since Japanese h-game developers are pretty much entirely indie, you could even serve as a go-between for them and translators. They already have a strong scene over there that would certainly be a boon to you if you can make use of it. It's a prospect that's probably years down the line but it's something to think about. Just my two cents.

 

[kimochi]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

@ Bunkercake

Yep we would like to reach out to Japanese companies eventually, but first to focus on the western side. I'm inclined to believe that western indie devs aren't quite there in popularity yet because there's not an easy payment solution and the infrastructure isn't there to make building games painless.

Most of us at Kimochi are developers and we've built games before, so we'd like to lend a hand to build out the tools.

 

[thundra]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Hey guys! It's been a while since there's been some activity on this thread. I just want you guys to know that we've had some positive progress towards our goals!

-Credit card transactions are live, as well as the first examples of paid games
-Many new games featured in the home library
-Option to change your install directory
-Publishers can now place multiple screengrabs and videos on their product page
-Digital signature on our install executable
-Added a navigation bar to the get between the forums and homepage

Currently, we're working on a tagging/blacklisting interface to help you filter games.

We're also looking at the possibilities of opening up a raffle to help support the site, in that a certain donation will net you a certain amount of tickets towards an end-of-the-month prize.

As always, we're here if you have any questions, as well as on the Kimochi community forums. The client, and a good portion of the games, are free to play. Come check it out!

 

[habisain]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Something I've been meaning to ask, but seems more relevant now that you're accepting payments... You guys are aware that you've built Kimochi using services which prohibit adult content, right? I'm no lawyer, but I simply can't see how you're working around those terms of service provisions. In any case, I'm just curious - do you think you run afoul of any of the Terms of Service you've signed up to with your service providers, and if not, what is your rationale? I'm just curious on this before making a decision on if I should buy anything from your service.

 

[kimochi]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Something I've been meaning to ask, but seems more relevant now that you're accepting payments... You guys are aware that you've built Kimochi using services which prohibit adult content, right? I'm no lawyer, but I simply can't see how you're working around those terms of service provisions. In any case, I'm just curious - do you think you run afoul of any of the Terms of Service you've signed up to with your service providers, and if not, what is your rationale? I'm just curious on this before making a decision on if I should buy anything from your service.

Good question - terms of service, especially ones on public display, are general templates for customers. That ToS is superseded by any private ToS negotiated between both parties. We use the same services that Patreon uses to process payments, and of course Patreon allows adult content.

In any case, games that you purchase are yours once you've purchased them and are not dependent on any type of payment service outage.

 

[habisain]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Good question - terms of service, especially ones on public display, are general templates for customers. That ToS is superseded by any private ToS negotiated between both parties. We use the same services that Patreon uses to process payments, and of course Patreon allows adult content.

In any case, games that you purchase are yours once you've purchased them and are not dependent on any type of payment service outage.

Hmm. I would have to disagree on that. I'm more concerned that your authentication, mail and hosting services (i.e. waaay before anything involving payment) all appear to have terms that I would view as potentially problematic for a Hentai marketplace. If your hosting or authentication goes, then your website is pretty much toast and people would not be able to download anything.

Now obviously I'm not privy to any private terms of service, and so can't comment much there. However, I've dealt with one of these companies before, and they were very much 'take it or leave it' with regard to ToS. Of course, I might have just gotten unlucky with who I was talking to and things may have changed. At least it's good to know that these things have had some thought.

 

[kimochi]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Hmm. I would have to disagree on that. I'm more concerned that your authentication, mail and hosting services (i.e. waaay before anything involving payment) all appear to have terms that I would view as potentially problematic for a Hentai marketplace. If your hosting or authentication goes, then your website is pretty much toast and people would not be able to download anything.

Now obviously I'm not privy to any private terms of service, and so can't comment much there. However, I've dealt with one of these companies before, and they were very much 'take it or leave it' with regard to ToS. Of course, I might have just gotten unlucky with who I was talking to and things may have changed. At least it's good to know that these things have had some thought.

I'm interested in hearing your experience on this, as one can never be too careful. I sent you a PM.

 

[AsXurian]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Just being mildly curious/cautious. Even though I feel it's a dumb question, I still feel like I need to ask it before I purchase anything through Kimochi.

(Despite having joined back when it was known as Steamy, and I support the development of this platform 1000%)


Is it currently safe, as of this month (November, 2015), to purchase games using my credit cards through Kimochi?



I don't know if I'll be allowed to know the name of the company handling the transactions and what-not. But I'm mostly afraid of my bank flagging it as credit fraud, and forcing me to go through a long and annoying process that I have to go through every time I purchase something from a Japanese site.

 

[kimochi]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Yep, we've processed lots of transactions at this point with no complaints yet. We're using the same service that Patreon uses so you should expect a very similar experience.

 

[Burningscarlet]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Really impressed so far - already bought Anthophobia through your marketplace - but there are a few minors issues I have with the interface right now:

1. Everytime I press the back button from the library it brings me back to the Store page, which is a minor annoyance but can be annoying if you want to download many games at once. Which also reminds me - is there a possible way to list the games out like Steam does in the library? It's kind of a chore having to go through all the games you've added to your library one by one and press the download button

2. Everytime I start up the program it brings me back to the welcome page that asks me if I've done all the steps yet. It's another minor annoyance, but not a huge problem.

3. Some of the downloads I queued up just stopped after a while. Too many games in queue? It would be great if we had a downloads tracker or something for clarity.

Besides these minor gripes (but very necessary polishes I feel) the program works wonderfully so far! I'm impressed and I can definitely see the potential in where this is going.

 

[Troufas]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Is there a way to remove a game from your library? I can't seem to find it.

As I am testing games, there are some I did not like

Anyways it seems I see more games in the forums listed than I see in the platform. Or am I crazy?

 

[Mr.Noname]

Re: Kimochi - the adult games marketplace

Nice stuff on everything on Kimochi, tried it out but since i have 32-bit can launch it and update it, but can't really launch it for real.

Still BETA thought!