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CYOA design


MetalDemon

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This is basically going to be a thread where I post everything that pertains to CYOAs I’m running or thinking of running. If you have something insightful to say and you think everyone could benefit from seeing it, then go ahead. For everything else you may want to say or ask, PM me.
 
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MetalDemon

MetalDemon

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Re: CYOA design

General CYOA Rules:
Each story post will provide a handful of options to choose from. You may choose one as a main and specify another as a backup vote which I will use in case I need a tiebreaker. Please put your backup vote on a new line so it’s easy for me to see.

Bonus votes
Giving extra justification for a why you chose an option may cause your vote to be counted multiple times. This is done entirely at my discretion.

Write-in options
If you have an idea for how our hero could act that isn’t in the options provided, go ahead and vote for that. If you do this please do three things:
1) Start your post with “Other:” so I can see what you’re doing.
2) Provide a backup vote in case I decide to veto your idea.
3) Give some justification as to why I should consider this over options I already gave.
Note that I reserve the right to veto your idea, or unilaterally decide that it gets infinite bonus votes.

Player Participation Bonuses
If you get invested in a story of mine you will be rewarded. Much like how GMs give roleplaying bonuses the protagonists of my CYOAs will get bonuses when players take the time to argue why the protagonist should take a certain action. Even if your vote doesn’t get chosen, arguing for a side can give bonuses to the protagonist.

tl;dr
‘Other’ is always an option. Tell me why you voted the way you did and good things will happen.
 
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MetalDemon

MetalDemon

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Re: CYOA design

Best Practices
Goals
Have a long-lasting and entertaining Choose Your Own Adventure story.
Continually engage the audience.
Make voting feel like it really counts.
Tell a story that feels meaningful.

How
Write updates that are several paragraphs long or between 300 and 1000 words. This gives a good balance between waiting forever for votes and spending so long between choices that player input is diminished.

Have between 3 and 5 options each choice. If the choice *really* needs variants then have a second vote after the first choice has been locked in. Otherwise, focus your ideas more. This prevents the whole ordeal from becoming a huge clusterfuck where you don’t actually get what the majority wants because there are too many split votes.

Be flexible with options. If there is a big split vote between two similar options, combine them. This just prevents you from getting so caught up in rules you forget to have fun.

Give the players as much power as you can. Always allow ‘Other’ votes. This makes the players get invested and feel empowered.

Know the limits of player power. Don’t let a character confess their love to someone after 2 hours together. Seriously. I’m tired of fucking seeing this shit happen. Veto all day if the players want characters to do something that makes no sense for them to do unless they’ve been given a very good reason.

Have an idea of what story you want to tell. Sometimes you can get a decent CYOA going with the players picking the entire setting as well as the plot twists, but that just ends up in chaos in the voting and generates a less satisfying story. Knowing sort of how you want things to go and having *some* material prepared gives you just enough constraints to keep voting streamlined while also making players feel more empowered because they have control in a world rather than some vague mist that they have to define.

Leave the game mechanics at the door. I’ve seen too many cool stories get knocked completely off track by the roll of a die. Sometimes you want the feel of a game system, that’s fine. Let people worry over resources if it’s appropriate. Roll a die now and then to see how something turns out. But don’t let a game system dictate how everything in the world goes. It’s too cumbersome to put into practice and you’ve probably implemented it wrong anyways.

Final Note
This isn’t a personal attack on anyone who goes against these best practices. They have different goals than I do so it’s natural that they run their CYOAs differently. I happen to think that this is the best format for a CYOA and anyone is welcome to disagree.
 
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MetalDemon

MetalDemon

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Re: CYOA design

Learning From Others
Maybe this is a bad idea and I'm just going to create a huge load of butthurt. I still think that these observations are useful enough to make public.

Kathy had a great run with her LoZ CYOA. It was basically the longest running one on the forum and was so well written that I still go back and re-read it occasionally. Her biggest issues were letting players have too much power, causing Link’s personality to shift radically throughout the story, as well as letting an RPG system rule the story. Kathy introduced an interesting idea for a fix for the first issue in a mirror that showed what ending Link was heading for with her actions. But we never really saw how this worked out because the story ended before it could take effect. The second issue was never resolved and ended up killing what was supposed to be some cool climactic moments because the system was just too stacked against Link.

Serifyn’s has done a great job with his CYOA series. He is the only one on the forum who actually finished a CYOA and had it feel like he created a story. Okay, so people didn’t like the ending and he didn’t respond well to that feedback. This doesn’t detract from him routinely doing the best CYOAs on the board. Still, I feel like he sometimes forgets that he’s writing porn.

Iggy does some light, fun stuff. His CYOAs are some of the most imaginative, but his biggest issue is that his story updates are too short. There isn’t enough detail for me to fap to and it takes so long to make a decision that really didn’t need to be put to vote.

Diagasvesle is good at harnessing players to conjure a fun porn story out of the ether. None of his stuff is super engaging, but it’s fun. My biggest complaint is that he allows for players to choose what the plot twists are and that just feels like a cop-out. But in the end I still enjoy reading his stuff and the way he manages his CYOAs seems about perfect for what he’s trying to accomplish.
 

Diagasvesle

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Re: CYOA design

Don't know if I should reply here but....

Kathy had a great run with her LoZ CYOA. It was basically the longest running one on the forum and was so well written that I still go back and re-read it occasionally. Her biggest issues were letting players have too much power, causing Link’s personality to shift radically throughout the story, as well as letting an RPG system rule the story. Kathy introduced an interesting idea for a fix for the first issue in a mirror that showed what ending Link was heading for with her actions. But we never really saw how this worked out because the story ended before it could take effect. The second issue was never resolved and ended up killing what was supposed to be some cool climactic moments because the system was just too stacked against Link.
Enjoyable CYOAS it was. Simply put Kathy swept everyone in with her writing. If the CYOAS was still going I do believe that you would not be complaining at all but just heaping amounts of praise. But since it is not going then I, looking back, can make some of the same inferences that you do. But re-reading it just makes me wish it would continue. Edit: To Preempt you saying it is not a complaint. I just see it as a complaint.


Serifyn’s has done a great job with his CYOA series. He is the only one on the forum who actually finished a CYOA and had it feel like he created a story.
Hey! I did too finish a CYOA. It was the first one I made after a Dungeon of Pleasure RP. May that rp rest in peace. Anyhow, that one ended at the first GO and my lack of interest to restart it from that GO. You should still be able to reach it from my signature.


Diagasvesle is good at harnessing players to conjure a fun porn story out of the ether. None of his stuff is super engaging, but it’s fun. My biggest complaint is that he allows for players to choose what the plot twists are and that just feels like a cop-out. But in the end I still enjoy reading his stuff and the way he manages his CYOAs seems about perfect for what he’s trying to accomplish.
Time to comment at my own mini-review from metal demon. Simply put when I write a CYOAS, I generally love it when the players screw them selves over. If you ever get into an rp with me (generally chat based) I will give you the standard post and then the optional (always worse for you post but it does bring benefits as well.) As for the cop-out inference I see from you well I will admit my first 2 cyoa do have that. Hopefully it won't happen in my third cyoa since I will put all out of character actions to be costly to the voters using a hidden stat. Still looking through this thread I see the other option. Do you recommend I should put an other option in for a bad start? (Coughwaking in a dungeon with nothing cough*)


Anyhow, enjoyed reading through the rules that you see for CYOA. Also may or may not be using some of the ideas I find here. If I do use them, I will put up credit to where credit is due.
 

Iggy

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Re: CYOA design

Learning From Others
Iggy does some light, fun stuff. His CYOAs are some of the most imaginative, but his biggest issue is that his story updates are too short. There isn’t enough detail for me to fap to and it takes so long to make a decision that really didn’t need to be put to vote.
Ask and ye shall recieve.
 

Serifyn

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Re: CYOA design

Serifyn’s has done a great job with his CYOA series. He is the only one on the forum who actually finished a CYOA and had it feel like he created a story. Okay, so people didn’t like the ending and he didn’t respond well to that feedback. This doesn’t detract from him routinely doing the best CYOAs on the board. Still, I feel like he sometimes forgets that he’s writing porn.
First, allow me to thank you for the compliment, when i write a Cyoa, or anything for that matter, i sit down and think it out, then i put into place whatever pops into my mind. I have a general direction which way i want to go, but sometimes you need to be spontaneous, For instance, in my last update for 'Dark Ritual: Tentacle Familiar' i had not considered that Odella would become effected by the amount of tentacle semen she would ingest during the update, finding an 'oasis' of the stuff and her enfeebled state, it allowed you to take a more activate role, something which i hope works out.

Writing a big and in depth Cyoa takes alot of hard work and thought, if you actually want to create a story, with characters and personality, you need to flesh them out, put them into situations where the reader can better judge them.

My theory on writing sex scenes is that you want to be as descriptive as possible, while simultaneously being as varied as possible, you can describe a scene and people will get the general idea, but people read these CYOAs for the sex scenes and if you do them poorly or repeat yourself too often (which is easy to do as sex is usually just 'phallic object goes here'), You can lengthen the scene by describing how the character feels, how the victims feels, erotic actions such as touching, licking, moaning, orgasming or other minor signs of gradual voluntary submission (if it is rape).

I actually find that writing sex scenes is difficult to do well, and thus, i try to save them for special occasions where characters can either bond (or be bondaged). in TLE, most of the eroticism was from the atmosphere, knowing that the character is in a setting where they are vulnerable.

I had an incredible conflict during the majority of Tentacle Lair Escape: Apocalypse, where the main character was a warrior type who hated tentacles and just wanted to see them all destroyed. it is difficult to balance sex scenes for such a character, as any choice you make (which is suppose to be helping her find and destroy tentacles) would inevitably result in her getting tentacle raped, making the audience feel like no choice they can make is the correct one, this kind of conflict of interest is detrimental to the creation of direct 'sex scenes'.

Finally, Writing endings is incredibly difficult to do, you basically need to encompass every decision which has been made and produce a simple scenario where everyone will not only be entertained, but ideally, also surprised.

Spoilers:

Laura at the end of TLE basically sacrifices Cecilia in order to escape fromt he great lair, but the Overlord there knew that she would take the egg inside of her and give birth to it and take care of it because of her close (love like) relationship with the blue tentacles, in this way, both Laura and the Overlord win, Laura gains her freedom and the Overlord allows the Blue tentacle race to expand outside of the Great Lair for the first time in centuries.

Laura is a major character throughout the entire story, and her actions in the past cyoa's effect the story in the others, she is a static character and one who the reader can follow throughout the entire series.

Olivia at the End of TLE:O who had always been sadistic and decadent, transforms into a vengeful protector by the end due to the death of her lover, Lazuli, she becomes the main character in the CYOA and vows to protect all of the blue tentacles.

This kind of character transformation is the result of her actions and decisions you have made, at the very end of the CYOA, Olivia has transformed into a 'Overlord' class creature herself and visits the tomb of her deceased lover, reemphasizing her love and loyalty.


In the end, my writing continues to be a work in progress, when i started TLE a little more than a year ago, i simply wanted to explore all of the tentacle concepts i had picked up through the years, it became something much bigger, and continues to expand even today.
 
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MetalDemon

MetalDemon

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Re: CYOA design

MetalDemon said:
Serifyn’s has done a great job with his CYOA series. He is the only one on the forum who actually finished a CYOA and had it feel like he created a story.
Hey! I did too finish a CYOA. It was the first one I made after a Dungeon of Pleasure RP. May that rp rest in peace. Anyhow, that one ended at the first GO and my lack of interest to restart it from that GO. You should still be able to reach it from my signature.
The important part of that statement is that it felt like he created a story. The reason why your style of CYOA doesn't create that feeling- as far as I can tell- is because you give players control over the plot and it turns into things just happening rather than something that feels like a coherent whole. Serifyn had that. The end of Tentacle Lair Escape, when the Laura manages to physically escape, but ultimately lost too much of her humanity to truly escape is an ending. The events that ended your CYOA happened in the span of 3 posts, Serifyn took into account everything that had been happening since near the beginning.

That said, this isn't a bad thing. You make fun porn romps and it'd be strange for you to give them some big literary ending.
 

Diagasvesle

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Re: CYOA design

The important part of that statement is that it felt like he created a story. The reason why your style of CYOA doesn't create that feeling- as far as I can tell- is because you give players control over the plot and it turns into things just happening rather than something that feels like a coherent whole. Serifyn had that. The end of Tentacle Lair Escape, when the Laura manages to physically escape, but ultimately lost too much of her humanity to truly escape is an ending. The events that ended your CYOA happened in the span of 3 posts, Serifyn took into account everything that had been happening since near the beginning.

That said, this isn't a bad thing. You make fun porn romps and it'd be strange for you to give them some big literary ending.
Ahhhh. Well looking back on it, it was a simple randomly generated dungeon cyoas. So yes I'll admit it doesn't have an overall grasping structure towards it as Serifysn stories. Also apologies towards responding to this.

Also, so far from what I've seen of your LoZ TP story, seems generous so far. Through it seems to be heavily choice based more then anything else.
 
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