Thanks
@DoggieDog52 for the detailed feedback. I had a lot of fun thinking about the mechanics you described and I think it is a huge challenge making a good hentai game. Maybe others can learn from your thoughts and my mod. Let me answer some of the points you brought up:
(after rereading what I wrote I think it might sound harsher than intended. Sorry about that, but I mean no offense. On the contrary: I always wanted a discussion about H-game mechanics! Thank you for the opportunity!)
No no, I take no offense. If anything I was worried I came off as a bit harsh as well. (Also forget to respond to this much earlier, my bad)
Imo bad hentai games do not deal with this different design approach and punish the player for entering a h-scene on purpose. For example kyreiru's "Erico": I love that game, but you play that game according to its own design goals (and are a skilled player) you will not see any h-scenes during the game. The hentai becomes almost not obsolete. For this reason a lot of games have (and player ask for) a gallery mod, because to unlock the gallery is the (some times only) incentive for beating the game.
The other extreme would be to reward the player for entering a h-scene, but why would you consider trying to beat the game if you reach the goal (the h-scene) by loosing? You could watch porn instead
I could get into how the original Witch Girl isn't necessarily that great but what sets it apart from other games is the penalty isn't that steep. Yes, you can always go into a gallery to see those scenes but there was the balance of managing lust and HP as you went. Going for the scenes was risky but that's what heightens the appeal imo. You're risking losing for a "reward" of sexual content. The big difference in the original game and the mod though is that the penalty was never that steep. Even if you lost, you could continue from the same stage and escaping was never a problem as long as you didn't get caught too many times or had bombs. But in the mod I felt like the normal escape option was so difficult that it was almost impossible to get out and I'd get hit again and again due to the orgasm. Plus the corruption meant that playthrough had a permanent debuff, making it even more difficult. Since the player has no way to reduce these or counter them other than "don't get hit", it felt like the game was consistently punishing.
Maybe I'll go back and try the other escape mode but in the one I played it felt very difficult.
A good example where the design goal for hentai games is applied is MenZ Studio's "Atelier Tia" (and also "Virgin Invader" if I remember correctly ). In these games you are rewarded with a h-scene for beating an enemy and the stage. But they tend to use h-scenes as a mere addition to the gameplay rather than influece the gamplay and decisions the player makes.
A huge influece on my mod had the gameplay of dirtyc's "furry fury". In this game running into enemies is sometimes a valid strategy for beating the level. Because of the (unique) domination/submission system in during sex scenes the player can gain an advantage or penalty in form of HP depending on the enemies and your stats.
Virgin Invader's one of my favorites because it really rewards you for going for the scenes but it's also a risk. You gained extra 'mana' for getting off sex attacks and if you put your character in danger and pulled it off you'd get even more. It was easily interruptible, meaning you couldn't use it in combat, but once the level was beaten you could indulge all you wanted. A pretty solid idea in my opinion. I haven't played Altelier Tia but I'll for sure get around to it cuz the developer has put out good work before.
In the case of DirtyC's, yes you could run into enemies to fight them but that unique system meant the sex was a battle in itself that you could win with good play and softening the enemy up with attacks. Running into enemies in Witch Girl has its perks of avoiding other attacks but it's more of a "lesser of two evils" than an attack.
As a last example I think that good old jungle girl was such a great game because it delivered on h-game design goal really well. No matter how good you are, there is no way you will beat the game without entering at least one or two h-scenes.
Personally I don't see this as good design. Jungle Girl was a good game because it was one of the few games out there that incorporated hentai into an interactive setting. If anything, one of the best scenes in the game you only got if you lost.
The corruption system is tailored around that. I tried to implement a balance where the player needs to work with lust meter in order to succeed. Some times you want to keep the lust high because you are close to the next climax quest marker or you want to gain a bomb for example. This should create some interesting decisions the player has to make, but if the player is not carefull he gets punished by getting corrupted.
Yeah but that's just the same system as the normal Witch Girl. Since Corruption is a permanent notch on your debuff list and then resets lust, it's harder to manage it, especially when an orgasm makes it harder and harder to escape.
I think I just had issue with the escape system. I should give it another try sometime.
The penalty for feet and legs are the weak point. Im curious: What would be your idea for these?
Something related to being unable to brake as easy or unable to regulate your speed consistently would be interesting. Being slower when you crouch could also work.
I did not lose interest in modding becaue I didnt like the product. I simply had not enough time and it was - and i can not reapeat that too often - really labour intensive!
The new enemy is a mere anti-camping-device and as such quite ok
The new enemy was a good idea, it just felt like it was an extra part that distracted from your original core gameplay. By diverting time to something that didn't flesh out your corruption mechanic, it made it harder to get into it. Personally, I've heard that even if something is labor intensive if you're interested in it enough you'll make time for it. But at the same time I can understand that putting a ton of time and effort into something that might not get you the returns you're looking for is tough too, even if you really enjoyed it.
Its never ment to be a story driven game. Also story is not just told by text boxes and dialogs (which I suck at writing). I wanted the player to be curious to create a story in their head. But that beeing sad I had plans to frame the game with some story.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean to bring up a story. What you worked with was just fine in that regard. An H-Game doesn't have to have a story to be good.
At the end of the day, as long as you learn from the experience I think that's worth the time you put into it. And this mod is a good example of what can work if you really put the time in. I may not have enjoyed it as much as others but I enjoy taking a look at game design and different perspectives on it. So thanks for your hard work Mc Swagger!
