Questions for translators regarding unspoken codes between translators, toxicity towards burnout/delays, and views towards machine translation

[Oir]

Apologies if this isn't in the right section,

Before I ask my questions, I'd really like to thank the translators who take so much of their time and energy to give us these translations and allow us to enjoy so many games that would've previously flown under the radar. Burnout is an extremely real and prevalent thing and I personally believe that everybody can strive to be quite a bit more patient and less toxic in regards to translation delays and hiatus.

I'm really not trying to offend anybody; I'm genuinely curious as to the perspective of translators in regards to some of the following subjects
My questions for translators in the community are as follows:

1. How do you feel about unedited machine translation? Do you feel like it is a great effort to provide english speakers with some semblance of translation for a game that in all likelihood would never have been translated? Or do you think that it in a way "robs" the game of a chance at a manual translation? On that note, do you look at games with machine translations and find yourself less inclined to do a manual translation for them as opposed to manual translating games with no translation or machine translation whatsoever? Does this change depending on whether or not the machine translation was edited?​

2. Have you ever wanted to translate a game but found that it was being translated by somebody else? Have you ever wanted to translate a game that was taken on by someone else but presumably abandoned or left semi-permanently unfinished? Or are your feelings about wanting to translate a game rarely strong enough to care that much and you'll just go translate another game? Would you ever reach out to the translator of a seemingly abandoned translation to see if you could take it over or is that seen as bad mannered/tacky?​

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3. Have you ever felt burnt out on a translation project but felt less inclined to communicate with the community due to predicted backlash and toxicity towards your efforts? Or do you find yourself putting up with it in favour of transparency? Or perhaps have you not experienced toxicity/backlash yourself?​

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4. For those who have abandoned or permanently burned themselves out on certain projects, do you feel upset if others express interest in modifying or continuing where you left off?​

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5. It is very common to see obviously abandoned translation projects in which the translator has not communicated their intentions or left a partial patch of whatever they managed to complete even after years. Have you ever had experience with this? Do you believe that this comes from some part of the translator who believes that they will perhaps eventually return to the project and doesn't wish to give it away in case that happens? Do you think it comes from some part of the translator who feels guilt or that he's "let down" those who were following the translation? Do you think that this is essentially fair game since the translator doesn't owe anybody anything? Or do you believe it's counter-productive to a game's overall translation effort and wish that this didn't happen as much?​

Happy to clarify what I mean in any of the questions. I'm really not trying to poke any beehives or project my own views onto these questions.
I'm genuinely curious and would be extremely appreciative to gain any insights into how translators view these sorts of issues.

Many thanks!

 

[mayaktheunholy]

Relevant to me since I'm burned out on a particular game myself.

1. MTL does make me less likely to do a manual translation. But not out of any kind of ill-will. It just seems like a better use of my time to work on something that has no translation at all. An MTL is "better than nothing" for most people. As a fan translator, I think what is more of a concern is the continued commercialization of translating H-games. Why spend months of my life translating something if a commercial outfit can come out of left field and DMCA/deplatform/whatever me because they made a deal with the dev behind the scenes? (and they would be within their rights to do so since the dev has the sole right to translate their work)

2. If there were a game I wanted to tackle that was previously abandoned, I would most likely try to contact the translator first. I don't see anything wrong or bad mannered about it. But I would most likely start it from scratch myself as opposed to finishing what they started. I say most likely because it would depend on the game, how familiar I am with it, and how much they had done. If it was at 90% I'd likely just try to finish it.

3. I am most certainly burned out on Lucia Story, but I have made that clear. I think being transparent about it is best.

4. If I were really burned out, (like I am) I would be fine with someone else finishing it up. For me, it's about getting a game translated so people can play it in coherent English, not money and/or internet fame.

5. Don't really have an opinion on this one. Though I will point out that sometimes it's not the translator that makes this decision, if they are officially working with the developer.

 

[anon54643278645294521]

1. It depends. I think providing a way for people to play the game while understanding what's going on is a good thing. As long as the meaning is there, it's possible to understand what is said even if the English is broken AF. It's not like I wouldn't manually translate a game that has been MTL and edited, but as long as the meaning is there, I probably wouldn't even try. It would be like breaking a sandcastle to build it anew because it was poorly shaped here and there. But it's another story with unedited MTL. Some time ago, I played a MTL game where the MC moaned very strangely. Instead of "Ahh~" or "Ohhh, ugh...", he would say "Gollum! Woo woo!". MTL can fuck things up and butcher the meaning of a sentence. So yeah, I would gladly manually translate such a game.

2. I had such a problem when I was about to start translating Your Sweet House. Someone else was working on it and I reached out to them to see if I could help or if they had given up (no update for a long while). They passed the project to me and I completed the translation recently. I think as long as there is communication, there is a way. Translating a game can be quite time-consuming, I doubt anyone would translate a game they don't even like (unless there is money involved). And it's definitely not rude to contact someone and ask them if they're still working on the project or if they would agree to let someone else take up the mantle.

3. I work at my pace. I have to earn my bread, so I can't translate for entire days. And I communicate with the community whenever I can to get feedback and bug reports. I know I'm not perfect, I know I'm bound to make errors no matter how much I try not to. And that's why I always remain humble to some extent. If someone says something bad about my work, there must be a reason. As long as I can talk to them, I can fix those problems. Why should I fear for the community's backlash and toxicity when I am a member of the community as well?

4. Hasn't happened to me until now. The answer would probably be no. I mean, if I feel like I can't keep working on a project, passing it on to someone else would be the natural course of action. But that's only if I don't make any progress or if I feel like I just don't want to keep going. If someone wants to take up the mantle after I've clearly stated that I'm not going to translate a game anymore, then I don't have any right to blame anyone afterward. On the contrary, it would be great for everyone if someone could complete the project.

5. If there is no news after many months, then it's safe to assume the translator has some problems to deal with. If there is no news after, like, an entire year, then it is safe to assume they've disappeared without a word. A translator who works for free doesn't own anything to anyone. They can translate if they want to and they can stop if they don't feel like it anymore. But I think saying you'll translate a game, stopping midway after some time and disappearing from the internet without saying anything to anyone is kinda shitty. If you don't feel motivated, say it. There is no shame in that, especially if you would rather have more time for yourself. As long as there is communication, everything is fine. And this way, someone else might inherit the project and complete it.

 

[Stiltzkinator]

1. MTL is not nothing. I *prefer* when the person who does it at least does a cursory check to make sure basic interactions, especially early on in the game, make some amount of sense, but it's still better than nothing for people who understand 0% of Japanese (or Chinese, etc.) The one MTL I completely hate is Taimamiko Yuugi's because it was released as the official version via steam. I have nothing against MTL inherently, but to charge for it is evil, especially when it doesn't actually clarify much.

2. I would totally reach out to someone who previously worked on a project (or who currently is), and even offer to work together if it suited them. I translate as a hobby, not a job, so the interest in a project is more important to me than recognition/ownership/etc.

3. For the few projects I've started working on here and elsewhere (which generally stopped at partials) I haven't really had to deal with toxicity ever, more just a general apathy as I think I tend to choose somewhat less interesting projects overall.

4. Rather than being upset, I'd be thrilled. I'd offer someone every bit of work I've already done and tips to continue where relevant, even. As stated above, I don't translate for my ego, I translate because I'm interested in seeing the game translated. If someone else is putting in the effort, that's sort of even better, as I tend to have a lot on my plate at any given time.

5. Things happen. I think there's any number of reasons someone might not finish a project - I've certainly dropped a lot, only fully finishing one translation I've ever started even. I mostly just get busy with other things that are more important, or lose interest which makes it too inefficient to continue. I think if you find such a project, it's courtesy to ask, as directly as you can (pm, email, etc), but if you don't get a response in, say, a month, I'd consider prior work that's already public to be fair game. Credit the person for their original amount of work, and feel free to build off of it if there's no response. If someone does respond and asks that you not use their prior work, then so it goes. Otherwise, once something is out in the open, it's up to the author to defend it. We rarely ask the original Japanese devs for permissions to do a fan translation, so my personal view is that permission is not required to use prior work - but you should give the previous author a chance to decline as a courtesy (and if you are able to ask permission from the original game dev to do a translation and distribute it in a non-piracy manner, that is something I would recommend as well, though I'm not sure if I'm going to change anyone's mind on anything).

This is all from the perspective of doing a free,'fan' translation. I think full, paid translations are a different beats entirely, but I also don't think that's quite the subject here?

 

[Fatalus]

Hello! This is an interesting thread indeed.
Let me get few things straight before I answer.
1. This is purely personal experience.
2. I'm fairly new to this.
3. I consider myself an amateur at best.

Now, for your questions.

1. Machine translations never bothered me. Although - they vastly improved over time. A machine translation 10 years ago compared to now is on a whole different level. As of now, I happen upon sentences that I can simply copy, because they are correct.
For second part of this question - it doesn't matter to me whether a game had been previously machine translated or not. My only criteria is if I like it. In fact, for Lilith in Nightmare I asked the author of machine translation to share the file with me to make my work faster. (Credits to Aesthetic)

2. If a game is being translated by someone else, I leave it alone. If it seems the translator abandonded it, I'd try to contact him first. If he said he's still working on it, I'd leave it alone. If I didn't get a response for a long time (~ month), I'd consider working on it.

As an extra part for this, my actual experience. Few Circle Tekua games were translated by Pummels2. So before I went for Lilith in Nightmare translation, I asked him if was going to do this/whether he was fine with me doing it.


3. Oh yes, that totally happened. That said, I always try to set my goals before I announce anything, just to keep my promise. I said I would do 100% on Leotard (or as close as I could get) and went for it despite taking breaks because of burn out. For Lilith in Nightmare, I set my goals for partial translation and I will only do that.
I did not experience toxic behavior towards me because I only said I would do a partial. On the other hand, I never went back on my word, so no comments there.

Extra, personal part again - I actually had people help me in various ways without ever being asked for. (Thank you - Strange !)


4. I never did this, but I would gladly pass any progress to another person when asked.

5. Unless it's an official translation, it seems a fair game to me. I'd be fine if someone took my free work if I disappeared suddenly.

 

[Emerald_Gladiator]

Appreciate the level of sensitivity with which you approach this topic.
I'm not the best of translators, and probably don't stack up well against the more experienced ones, but here's my responses.

Spoiler

1.) I personally hate MTLs. Just my opinion, but oftentimes I have no idea what they're saying, and it's frustrating for me to have to think about what an MTL is TRYING to say and then re-translate it in my head. Oftentimes, not only are the nuances and slang culturally lost, but there are many cases where the translation is completely out of context or misinforms the reader on what's actually happening. And even worse, many times, the translation doesn't even make sense at all. Again, just my opinion, but while MTLs are better than nothing, they're still rarely work playing.

2.) I just move on. There are so many games to translate that unless the translator already has said s/he is abandoning it (or has been absent for a considerable amount of time without any communication), I'd leave the game alone.

3.) I've absolutely been burnt out, but I usually just hop onto a short (translation) project to keep myself motivated, finish it, and move back to my original (translation) goal. As far as toxicity, I understand the backlash when a translator has a consistent pattern of not committing or finishing projects, but otherwise, most users SHOULD understand that many of us translators are doing this for free/for fun, and nobody should be entitled to anything.

4.) I don't have any experience on that so I can't comment personally. I'd imagine that I wouldn't be offended though. I'd probably try to help that user along by offering my translation progress. What DOES offend me (as a side note) is when someone criticizes my translation's English and asks to improve it -- in context, when this happened to me, the user was a complete newb to translation (he didn't know what an RPGMaker script file was) and typed like he was 12. He ended up trying to improve my translation without my permission and ended up breaking his own game with his patch.

5.) Again, can't comment. I don't see it as negative; the main downside is that it prevents someone else from working on the game. When I had first started translating, I wanted to translate F4 (Fatal Fate/Final Fist) and Story of Two Swords, as they were highly requested and I personally liked the games. But both were being worked on. Eventually, both were either abandoned or left in limbo. And by that time, I had moved on to translating other games. So as my comment on point #2, there are always more games to work on, and always other translators to take games over.

Hope that helps!

 

[Dimly Lit Hamster]

Interesting to see the replies here.


1. They're fine, really, as far as I'm concerned it's better than nothing at all, especially in the case of games that just don't hook well at all. That being said (and as has already been said here) sometimes MTL butchers onomatopoetic sounds / misunderstands spaces and makes a whole new word. So sometimes more than one source is beneficial as is a quick proof reading.


2. I've found out midproject before that someone had started their own one and announced they were around the same point I was (I hadn't announced anything yet), can't remember what the game was.
A little disappointing to find I'd wasted time, but I emailed author and said they could use anything I had TL'd that they hadn't so it worked out in the end.

3. Thankfully I've never gotten any backlash, which is good because I burnout on games all the time, for real, I've like 10 semi TL'd games on my active hard drive and god knows how many others in cold storage, but it's why I never announce anything until I'm 100% sure I'm going to finish it when I pick the project up, or I'm nearly finished already.

4. Not at all, I mean I'm mostly out of the TL'ing game now and it's never actually happened where someone has picked up one of my works but I've had other authors contribute bug fixes etc after asking me which is actually a huge help since burnout leads to code-blindness.

5. This is kinda tied into my 2 other answers, and part of the reason I never announce anything until I'm nearly done. I always intend to return to games I've burned out on, if I ever actually DO return to them is another question entirely. I'll probably release the unfinished games some day and let people finish thme off if they want, but there's also a part of me that's quite attached to them.

Good questions, I liked this.

 

[EldenUF]

Now this is interesting. Translating is just a side recent hobby, and I've only completed one project, but I'll still try to share a little of my opinion.

1. I personally don't like unedited MTL'd games. Atm, it's near incomprehensible (until DeepL comes into action) and is likely to create game-breaking bugs. Having a game translated through MTL doesn't really block me from translating said game myself if I do decide to go through it. Even if most people already played the game through MTL, I'll still properly translate the game due to personal gain and for people who didn't play yet.

2. I will reach out and translate it if a) the game interests me b) it's WOLFRPG c) it's abandonned (or inactive for over a year). Dungeon Repeater Vera is one example where I combined my translation with @yrannil's, who apparently went MIA.

3. I personally always tell when I'm not feeling up to it and just be honest with the community. Since this is just a side hobby, I don't make a thread or any update until I've at least completed 90% of the translation.

4. Nope, although I very rarely share translation that hasn't made it to 90% progression (I did once share an uncomplete TL patch of Dungeon Repeater Vera on F95 for bug testing), if that were to happen then they can do whatever they want with my translation, as long as they give credits and ask me first.

5. Not sure about this but my first thought about the reason why they wouldn't announce their resignation is because of guilt and pride.

 

[habisain]

Interesting thread... Going from the top:

1) Mixed feelings on unedited machine translations. On the one hand they're useful, and people use them anyway via manual methods (i.e. hooking games). However I'd much rather see better tools to do machine translations with, because if the barrier to entry is sufficiently low that anyone can click a button and get a machine translation of a game, that gets us to a much better situation overall. (Incidentally, this is one of the things I'm working on - I'm aware that there are tools that do this to some extent, but I haven't found one that is at the level of "click a button" yet!).

2) Sometimes, although time pressures mean that I can't really take on translations at present. One of my big pet peeves is non-native English speakers translating games into English; normally, this doesn't produce a good quality end result. While any translation is probably better than nothing, non-native translators do tend to make sub-optimal work due to having lived a lifetime using a set of rules that don't work in English, and so can struggle to effectively communicate some nuance or use literary techniques appropriately. On the latter part - If I felt strongly enough, I would be much more inclined to start from scratch rather than try to take over - I'll explain more on this later - but would certainly attempt to ask the original translator if they had any intent to continue their work beforehand.

Incidentally, I have also been on the receiving end of this, having had someone else jump onto a project which I was doing. That experience was most unpleasant, given that the other person was apparently doing their best to disparage most of my other work as well, at least for a while. So... if there are unwritten rules on this, I feel like I've been let down by them!

3) I normally go for transparency, but found out the hard way this approach has significant downsides. Specifically, backlash from the community over delays which were beyond my control, combined with the antics of some other people on other forums, led to me essentially taking a break from translation related activities for a year and drastically scaling back my commitment to translations since then.

4) I wouldn't feel upset about people expressing an interest, although I'd almost always say no. I have abandoned a project for legal reasons: I translated a demo, found something in the full game which would potentially be illegal and am unwilling to test that. For this reason I was strongly against people modifying my translation - because my choices were either to be uncredited, which isn't nice, or be credited and have my name on something potentially illegal. So that's a very concrete reason to be against modifying an existing translation! More generally I'm against mods/project continuations on more practical reasons: translations are not a one-one mapping. Without access to the original translator and the raw unedited translations, I don't think a project can be continued from published work with any semblance of quality. Therefore while I would never be upset about people expressing an interest in modifying my work, I'd probably say no, as they would not have the resources needed to do the translation well, and would be better off starting from scratch.

5) Abandoned translations are annoying, but understandable. I know first-hand that transparency can get you burned. If there were some particularly vocal people in the peanut gallery who were already griping about delays, I completely understand why I translator might choose to just walk away rather than officially cancel a project. In line with my response to previous questions, abandoned translations should be left abandoned.

 

[barraged1]

I have abandoned a project for legal reasons: I translated a demo, found something in the full game which would potentially be illegal and am unwilling to test that

Just wondering, are you referencing Nightmare Girls?

 

[Oir]

Just wondering, are you referencing Nightmare Girls?

If it's something specific to Tsukinomizu Project, Habisain did part of Lilium Union a while back

 

[habisain]

Just wondering, are you referencing Nightmare Girls?

Actually no - I didn't translate any of Nightmare Girls. I'm actually referring to Crystal Story Gaiden (although I think a lot of the problems actually got fixed by the MV version).