The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

Maybe hate was too strong of a word. You bring up some really good points (after all, people who hate their country and don't do anything about it are idiots too), and when I think about it, it's not so much America itself that I hate, its the arrogant bigots that we have in it. Prejudice is still a huge problem, whether its sexism, racism, or simple homophobia, and even after Obama came into office, I have lost any faith I might have had in the American people's intelligence when we voted Bush jr into power TWICE.

I really saw no reason to argue with you yet here. I'm not a fan of prejudice, nor am I one of George W's fanatical followers.

I hate how the majority of the population seems to think that just because we have the strongest military, we're better than all the other countries out there. It just reminds me of people on the internet comparing e-peens. I think of having any more military than necessary for defense is pointless, and being proud of that military is just dumb. If we cut back our military budget and spent those billions and billions of dollars I don't know, researching the cure for cancer or whatever, think of where we could be. And yet people love our military. To me it just seems like a giant epeen war. That was the source of the second joke.

Ahhh so you're one of those civilians who believes that we can just make huge cuts to our military and all the bad guys will still leave us alone. Perhaps your liberal sensibilities prevent you from referring to them as "bad guys." I'll just call them "people who want to kill you and your family that the pointless military defend you from." Right now we're keeping civilians nicely sheltered from Al-Qaeda, North Korea and many other threats that I don't even think I need to get into. These people have no compunctions about blowing up people like your family, regardless of who your family voted for in the last election.

Our military has undergone major manning and budget cuts, to where many deserving young men and women who serve in it can't always be promoted, regardless of merit. Our most valuable and most expensive asset is our people, and we've cut that down to BELOW standards. Regardless, we're the reason you can live without wearing a beard and praying to Mecca or serving Kim Jong-il, "Supreme Leader."

So here I have to differ with you. I'm extremely proud of any young man or woman that picks up a rifle and defends the freedoms they were lucky enough to be entitled to.

That said, I'll be straight with anybody that asks and say I think I'm extraordinarily lucky to be born in America where at least the standard of living is quite high. I've never gone hungry or been dehydrated, and I've never not been able to sleep with a roof over my head. I've never gotten sick and died from a curable disease like TB or something. I've had an above-average education. All those things make me thankful that I was born here and not somewhere backasswards like any of those struggling third-world countries.

Again -- you do realize that without an adequate military to keep us and our interests safe, we'd never get the chance to build such a lifestyle? Not to mention the fact that the military has in many cases been directly responsible for (a) better medical practices and procedures and (b) providing aid to those struggling third-world countries?

But after all that, I'm going to say that telling somebody to go live somewhere else is retarded. I'm not going to pardon you for speaking frankly, because that's what discussions are for, but I'm definitely calling shenanigans on that statement. Even if you do hate where you live, just packing up and moving someplace else isn't as simple as taking a stroll down the street. You're in that country for a reason - you were probably born there, and if you weren't, you've been living there for some time with your family and friends. For the sake of argument, let's say I actually do hate this country for every reason imaginable. I grew up here. My family lives here. My friends, some of whom I have known for more than half my life, are here. Even if I was willing to give up those few personal connections that actually are important to me, I don't have the MONEY to just pick up and wander around for some place to shove my shit into. I don't have the money to buy a place somewhere else, and I don't have the money to transport myself there, much less all the stuff that I own.

I agree, that when somebody's a rich fuck and has no personal ties to where they live, THEN if they're bitching about how much they hate where they live and don't move, they're a hypocritical idiot. But just because you don't have the funds to pack up and leave, or the willingness to rip the relationships with others you hold dear to shreds doesn't mean you're a hypocrite or a moron.

You do have a point here. Money and relationships can be an issue. I do want to point out a couple of things, though. As far as relationships go, it's always a tough thing having to make decisions like that. It's also difficult picking up roots and leaving.

Consider the classic American immigrant. Fleeing either persecution or famine, this character comes to America on a ship with a few dollars and the clothes on his/her back. They give up or sell everything they can't carry with them for an uncertain future in the "Land of Opportunity." I've been to Ellis Island and walked through the same halls that many of them walked through. It was most likely a traumatic transition, and unfortunately for them, there is no perfect solution to life's problems -- it didn't always work out as well as they expected. Even so, they risked everything they were to leave friends, families and properties behind and start a new life in a foreign land.

I propose that it's not a lack of money holding you back, but an overabundance of prosperity. You don't have the money to move "all the stuff" you possess. Fact of the matter is, you could sell that stuff and with a few months of dedicated work, you could set aside enough money to buy passage elsewhere, and even have enough left in your pocket to start a meager life elsewhere.

It's not that you can't leave, it's that your priorities prevent you from doing so. Your American friends and family, and the abundance of possessions that America has allowed you to own, are what keeps you living here. I still say that if, as your original post said, you "hate" this country, you should be able to find a way out. Plenty of immigrants make plenty of sacrifices to find a way in (and still do).

 

[Alias]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

Ahhh so you're one of those civilians who believes that we can just make huge cuts to our military and all the bad guys will still leave us alone. Perhaps your liberal sensibilities prevent you from referring to them as "bad guys." I'll just call them "people who want to kill you and your family that the pointless military defend you from." Right now we're keeping civilians nicely sheltered from Al-Qaeda, North Korea and many other threats that I don't even think I need to get into. These people have no compunctions about blowing up people like your family, regardless of who your family voted for in the last election.

I won't argue with you there. I don't pay attention to global affairs, so you probably know more than me about how the size of our military deters other factions from causing us pain. I will, however, ask: how?
You said that the American military is keeping civilians nicely sheltered from all these outside factions, and I just don't see how. I don't see a garrison at the corner of my street. As far as the situation in North Korea goes... aren't we in their country? Sure we're stopping them from hitting South Korea, but that's an ocean away. I'll take it one step further - if we had never gone there in the first place, would we really have had to worry about them at all? I was under the impression that the only reason we even went to Korea was because of the communism-phobia that we as a nation underwent before my time.

Our military has undergone major manning and budget cuts, to where many deserving young men and women who serve in it can't always be promoted, regardless of merit. Our most valuable and most expensive asset is our people, and we've cut that down to BELOW standards. Regardless, we're the reason you can live without wearing a beard and praying to Mecca or serving Kim Jong-il, "Supreme Leader."

Okay. But we're still spending more than any other nation on our military. Not just on the people, but the eternal arms race to see who has the best weapons.

So here I have to differ with you. I'm extremely proud of any young man or woman that picks up a rifle and defends the freedoms they were lucky enough to be entitled to.

I'm not talking about Joe Grunt who is brave enough to run the risk of getting his face blown off for the sake of his country. I'm talking about Cat Fatass sitting comfortably behind his desk and deciding where these lives are being spent.

Again -- you do realize that without an adequate military to keep us and our interests safe, we'd never get the chance to build such a lifestyle? Not to mention the fact that the military has in many cases been directly responsible for (a) better medical practices and procedures and (b) providing aid to those struggling third-world countries?

Adequate would be the key word there. I wouldn't describe our military as being 'adequate.' I would describe it as being overblown and bloated. I think we could spend a lot more money elsewhere and still have an 'adequate' military. I didn't think about how many military procedures end up with better medical technology - I'll give that one to you. As for giving aid to third-world countries, I have no opinion on that.

I propose that it's not a lack of money holding you back, but an overabundance of prosperity. You don't have the money to move "all the stuff" you possess. Fact of the matter is, you could sell that stuff and with a few months of dedicated work, you could set aside enough money to buy passage elsewhere, and even have enough left in your pocket to start a meager life elsewhere.

Not to be intentionally disagreeable, but that's true, only if you don't consider the fact that I'd have to re-purchase it after I move. And I travel light - about the only things I own are clothes, a microwave, a couple console systems and a desktop and laptop computer. But even though I have less than most, I still can't fit it all in my car. I guess if we're not talking about me personally though, that's a very good point, and some good insight. I already agreed with you on that point, more or less.

It's not that you can't leave, it's that your priorities prevent you from doing so. Your American friends and family, and the abundance of possessions that America has allowed you to own, are what keeps you living here. I still say that if, as your original post said, you "hate" this country, you should be able to find a way out. Plenty of immigrants make plenty of sacrifices to find a way in (and still do).

That's true, and I hadn't really thought of it that way. But again, I suppose I don't really hate america, I just hate the people that put us on a pedestal over everybody else, because it gives us all a bad reputation; thus, even when I'm jokingly acting like that, people get all flustered and think I'm serious. Which is annoyingly sad, in a grimly funny sort of way.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

The Taliban have threatened to come to our homeland, here in the West (whether you be American, British, Canadian, Danish, French, German what have you) and go into our schools. This is more than a threat, its a promise. They did it to Russia years back, went into a school the first day, executed the fathers and sons, and raped the mothers and daughters. For three days. It was absolutely fucking brutal, and they want to do it to us. They can't for the moment, as we are keeping them pre-occupied in the Middle East. Don't think they can get over here? Early 90's World Trade Center bombing. 2001 World Trade Center bombing. They have resources, and will be supplied by other nations who hate us here in the west. Cause that, will fuck us up.

I don't know if America is spending more than any other nation on the military. China and Russia are pouring in the money for men and equipment (China more so into equipment, I don't know how well their troops get paid).

As for North Korea, don't think an ocean can stop people. I mean, they aren't just some third world country without technology. Oceans aren't as vast as they once were. North Korea is also still doing nuclear tests.

I think you also over-estimate America's military abilities. If you were more than 'adequate' then folks would not be getting stop-lossed when they try to get out. America is hurting for soldiers, and its hard on the men who have to fight. When I was training in Texas for a month, 13 soldiers took their own lives because they didn't want to go back to Iraq for a fourth time. If there were an adequate amount of men, those people would not have been going back once again.

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I LOVE

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!

Also, I love the silly people arguing in that video's comments.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I won't argue with you there. I don't pay attention to global affairs, so you probably know more than me about how the size of our military deters other factions from causing us pain. I will, however, ask: how?
You said that the American military is keeping civilians nicely sheltered from all these outside factions, and I just don't see how. I don't see a garrison at the corner of my street. As far as the situation in North Korea goes... aren't we in their country? Sure we're stopping them from hitting South Korea, but that's an ocean away. I'll take it one step further - if we had never gone there in the first place, would we really have had to worry about them at all? I was under the impression that the only reason we even went to Korea was because of the communism-phobia that we as a nation underwent before my time.

The Korean War has its roots at the end of World War II, when the Russians and Americans divided the country at the 38th parallel. North Korea attempted to invade South Korea, and the world powers backed different sides, resulting in an armistice. North Korea withdrew from that armistice in May 27, 2009. Our presence in Japan is one of our most important assets in defending both ourselves and our valued friends from North Korea, not to mention potential threats from former enemies such as China and Russia.

Okay. But we're still spending more than any other nation on our military. Not just on the people, but the eternal arms race to see who has the best weapons.

First of all, we have no real way to accurately track the amount of money China and Russia put into their military. I can tell you that we are cutting corners in every possible way, and taxpayer dollars are not just getting thrown away as far as our military assets. Believe me, our budget is barely enough to adequately cover our defensive needs.

I'm not talking about Joe Grunt who is brave enough to run the risk of getting his face blown off for the sake of his country. I'm talking about Cat Fatass sitting comfortably behind his desk and deciding where these lives are being spent.

As he is the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces, I believe you're referring to the Honorable Barack Obama, President of the United States. One of the suckier parts of his new job is he has to take responsibility for people's lives being ended in or by our military.

Adequate would be the key word there. I wouldn't describe our military as being 'adequate.' I would describe it as being overblown and bloated. I think we could spend a lot more money elsewhere and still have an 'adequate' military. I didn't think about how many military procedures end up with better medical technology - I'll give that one to you. As for giving aid to third-world countries, I have no opinion on that.

Again... trust me on this, I'm a little more familiar with the threats we currently face and the capabilities of our enemies (and potential enemies). We're budgeted barely enough, and sometimes my people have a hard time getting properly compensated for the sacrifices they've made for their country.

If you want to know more about low budget militaries, just ask any Tibetan.

Now the point about moving out... I'm not really going to argue that anymore, anyway. You seem to have altered your way of thinking, or at least to have rephrased it. If you hate the country, it's time to leave. If you dislike the administration (which is what it sounds like now), my advice is to get involved and help make a change. Get involved in the politics. Join the military. At the very least, offer what service you can to the community to make it a better place.

And again, I agree that no country belongs on a pedestal. I love my country, but there's plenty of stuff wrong with it.

Oh, and I didn't know about that shit with the Taliban and the Russian schools. Damn. That's pretty fucked up. One more reason for me to do what I do.

And one more thing, Team America: World Police FTW. I have always respected the fact that Trey Parker and Matt Stone have never respected anybody.

 

[Chibichibi]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I love spearmint Oreos <3

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

Although as other people say there is no real way of tracking the amount of money that some country's spend, estimates say that America accounts for around

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, which is a lot.

However, I also don't think I'm mistaken when I say that the military is America's number 1 employer. Not just in soldiers and administration (only 2.3 million people) but weapons manufacturers and all the other civilian logistics, if the military budget was cut, unemployment would sky rocket. All the money of the military budget goes somewhere, most to american citizens (i'm guessing). the only problems are the accumulation of wealth by the rich (a much lower proportion of this happens in the military, my guess again) and more importantly the amount of money that leaves the country (buying foreign product mostly). At the end of the day any economic problems would be much better solved by tax reform to reduce the gap between rich and poor than reduced military budget. (but lets not get into that)

As for non-economic reasons to continue funding the military i do, and you should probably should alias (unless you have credentials or evidence), differ to the judgment of people with degrees in the current situation of America's economy or failing that, people in the military as they are much more likely to be better informed than we are.

in other news i love chicken shapes, chicken is a much under rated flavoring.

 

[Hopeyouguess62]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I love hot food and cold beer.

 

[Goldstein]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

While it is true that cutting military funding would probably result in some increase in unemployment, I believe the argument is that we would then increase funding in other areas, which would offset this unemployment increase. Example, Defense spending in FY2008 was $613 billion - War on Terror. NASA's budget in FY2008 was $17.3 billion. If we were to, say, double or triple NASA's budget by cutting defense spending by the same amount, we should expect to see an increase in aerospace engineering, manufacturing, research, etc; all of which fields in which the USA has been declining.

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

well that may all be true, and it probably is, but my point was that there is often the thought that any money put into the defense budged is just spent accumulating weapons or something, where most of it probably goes back into the american people.

 

[Rule 34]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I love Dragon Age again!
Ergh, arguments in the love thread.

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

thats a very good point, i love dragon age as well.

 

[Wrath]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I love waiting for a week to complete a download from live...
/sarcasm...

on a better note...
i am starting to love bioware again...
as a company, they really impress me now.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I've been impressed with Bioware since Knights of the Old Republic. I've really enjoyed their 360 outings of Mass Effect 1/2 and Dragon Age, and even their work as far back as Baldur's Gate... before they were Bioware.

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

black isle and bioware have basically been the pinnacle of western RPG's since forever.

 

[Goldstein]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I love Morrowind.

 

[Copper]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

As soon as I finished my origin story in Dragon Age (Female city elf) I immediately wanted to go back through and play it again to see the differences being male. Loving Dragon Age, thus far and I love bioware for making such great games that allow for replayability.

And I love them for giving us more romance options! It's about time, dammit!

 

[Tassadar]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I love Morrowind.

This. Bioware hasn't made a genuinely great game since the first KotOR, and Black Isle has been dead for years. Then again, Oblivion and Fallout 3 weren't spectacular in my book either. Still, in terms of immersion and gameplay length, Morrowind squashed both Mass Effects, Dragon Age, and even Fallout 2 all at the same time.

 

[Nunu]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

length yes... easily. I thought mass effect was very immersive at times, giving across a b-grade scifi tv series feel. that might not sound great but you were IN the b grade scifi.

 

[Wrath]

Re: The Love Thread (Or Just Warms and Fuzzies)

I personally was rather turned off of most RPG's, so that may explain my illiteracy with most of the big names out there.
Twas Bethesda that got really caught my attention with Morrowind and all its modding potential. I love how much additional content was applied towards that game!