In today's news...

[dmronny]

Re: In today's news...

Well let's see the vikings under Harald Hardrada lost to the Saxons at Stamford Bridge, then the Saxons lost to the Normans at Hastings. Of course the Normans were essentially vikings themselves who had just settled in land given to them so they would stop raiding the area.

Really it all boils down to who was lucky and who was better prepared at the time the battle started.

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: In today's news...

Well, seeing how the Swedes and Danes completely fucked up the entirety of Europe in the early Middle Ages I'd put my money on the vikings.

OI! You're forgetting sweet little Norway here! That's where most of the vikings came from!

*Struggles to hold on to what little national pride we have.*

 

[dmronny]

Re: In today's news...

Well actually in the example I gave both the Normans and Hardrada's vikings originally came from Norway, and the Saxons hailed from Denmark. So they were all vikings also, the Normans were the only ones who fought from horseback as a knight would though.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: In today's news...

no offense meant but the Taliban is pretty much the army that cant shoot straight, and if they weren't using guerrilla tactics, which i don't blame them for using, then they would simply be unable to fight nearly as well as they do.

The show had the Taliban against the IRA. Two groups using guerrilla tactics and bombs. It was simply the stats and weapons they said the Taliban used that were bullshit, letting me know the show didn't really know what it was yammering on about.

I'm also fully aware of how the Taliban fight, which is why the show seemed so blatantly wrong. And to say they can't shoot straight... well they have their moments.

Now as for knights vs. vikings, there's a much more realistic match up. Considering they've fought many a time in the middle ages. Honestly, I'd say it's very much down to the individual here for one on one fights. Both groups have some excellent tactics, equipment, training and so on. I'd say one big advantage Vikings had was their tendency to come from the seas without warning, and loot and pillage, and a knight caught there would be without the armour he needed two pages to help him don.

 

[dmronny]

Re: In today's news...

Now as for knights vs. vikings, there's a much more realistic match up. Considering they've fought many a time in the middle ages. Honestly, I'd say it's very much down to the individual here for one on one fights. Both groups have some excellent tactics, equipment, training and so on. I'd say one big advantage Vikings had was their tendency to come from the seas without warning, and loot and pillage, and a knight caught there would be without the armour he needed two pages to help him don.

That's exactly what I meant when I said it would come down to luck and who was better prepared at the time of the battle. The vikings actually did much better during their crusade then the "typical Knights" did. Though they weren't really all that interested in holding onto any of the lands they took. Mainly it was just more looting and pillaging.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: In today's news...

That's exactly what I meant when I said it would come down to luck and who was better prepared at the time of the battle. The vikings actually did much better during their crusade then the "typical Knights" did. Though they weren't really all that interested in holding onto any of the lands they took. Mainly it was just more looting and pillaging.

Wasn't their crusade into eastern Europe rather than the Holy Lands?

 

[Incubus]

Re: In today's news...

That's exactly what I meant when I said it would come down to luck and who was better prepared at the time of the battle. The vikings actually did much better during their crusade then the "typical Knights" did. Though they weren't really all that interested in holding onto any of the lands they took. Mainly it was just more looting and pillaging.

Well... that was one of the biggest problem the holy crusades had though. Everyone was all for reclaiming the holy land for god! But... staying there and holding it? Can't someone else do that?

The other being the never could repeat their early success of actually, you know, taking it. One success followed by so many failures trying to repeat it.

 

[Unknown Squid]

Re: In today's news...

The Viking's are one of the few people that have successfully invaded Britain, even if it was mostly small raids and pillaging as has been said. I can easily imagine how frightening it would have been for the average fishing village inhabitants to have these guys coming out of nowhere running up their beaches. As proof of their success there's plenty of Norse blood passed down the generations here, as well as words and names they introduced into the language which have stuck. They were apparently particularly fond of naming or renaming paths (that became roads), hills and villages for us.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: In today's news...

The Viking's are one of the few people that have successfully invaded Britain.

Romans, Saxons, Normans, Vikings...

 

[Pale]

Re: In today's news...

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Old news, but its basically a mass grave of executed Vikings.

Turns out, sometimes, raiding parties go a bit too far, and the locals catch up with them. They weren't all that they were cracked up to be...

P

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: In today's news...

You must be registered to see the links

Old news, but its basically a mass grave of executed Vikings.

Turns out, sometimes, raiding parties go a bit too far, and the locals catch up with them. They weren't all that they were cracked up to be...

P

Piss people off too much, and eventually they strike back.

 

[Unknown Squid]

Re: In today's news...

Romans, Saxons, Normans, Vikings...

Was a little worried that line might come of as slightly arrogant. Not intended. Just that compared to most other European countries at least, land has changed hands here a whole lot less than others. Britain has earned a reputation for being hard to invade. And that's still only four you listed, not much for two millennia, I'd say that the word "few" is plenty reasonable enough considering the blood bath that was the rest of medieval europe. Whilst history is definitely one of my weakest subjects, a friend once told me that the history of war in Europe is one of the most complicated areas of history anyone could hope to study.

For that statement of mine to mean more, I'd need to have looked up on how long the modern idea of England has existed rather than Britain.

 

[dmronny]

Re: In today's news...

Wasn't their crusade into eastern Europe rather than the Holy Lands?

Actually as far as I know there main targets or at least where they did most of their raiding was Moslem Spain, the Balearic Islands, and along the coast of the Holy Lands. When they reached Constantinople Sigurd I gave all his ships to the the Byzantine emperor and returned via land through eastern Europe. It's quite probable they were inolved in other crusades as well, so we could just be thinking of different crusades.

Let me just rephrase that for you then Squiddy; England, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland have all been invaded at one point or another. Put them all together into Great Britain and you've never been invaded though, in fact you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid to start a fight with the Scots, the Irish, the Welsh, and the English all at the same time. Sound better now.

Also yes the history of war in Europe is one of the most complicated things to study.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: In today's news...

We probly are Ronny... I think I'm thinking the Teutonic knights...

And yeah Squid, as soon as we start counting the amount of time the various factions within the British isles, rose, fell and invaded each other there'd be a lot. Besides, some of those four I listed had a damn HUGE impact on the culture of the isles.

 

[dmronny]

Re: In today's news...

If your thinking of Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine area that would be the teutonic knights alright.

Oddly enough the Norman invasion of England is considered a crusade as well, though not the same crusades most people think of.

Even weirder we're talking about the crusades in the todays news thread.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: In today's news...

Yeah, well, we also had like a two page argument on pirates vs. ninjas.

 

[Wonderboy]

Re: In today's news...

What I think is funny is most people think of vikings as bloodthirsty warriors and so on so fourth, but their main power was the fact that for a while they were the kings of the seas... Trading...

 

[Unknown Squid]

Re: In today's news...

Simply down to the fact that it's a lot easier to get a reputation for pillaging people or waging war than selling them some stuff. In the local gossip the neighbouring village being burnt down will always be the bigger topic than the latest good deal to come into port.

 

[dmronny]

Re: In today's news...

True they weren't any more warlike than anyone else of the time. A lot of the rep comes because unlike most of the European peoples they weren't afraid of the oceans so when the others see them appearing from out of nowhere in a ship, they would think it was strange. Not to mention the fact that they made themselves appear more frightening for a reason, that reason being it's much easier to pillage and loot if everyone runs away.

 

[Incubus]

Re: In today's news...

True they weren't any more warlike than anyone else of the time. A lot of the rep comes because unlike most of the European peoples they weren't afraid of the oceans so when the others see them appearing from out of nowhere in a ship, they would think it was strange. Not to mention the fact that they made themselves appear more frightening for a reason, that reason being it's much easier to pillage and loot if everyone runs away.

Reminds me of the story of a certain Chinese bandit lord. Him and his crew literally wore bells, so that towns would hear them coming and run/surrender to cut down on the fighting.

It is the greatest achievement in war as a general to win without a fight, to paraphrase Sun Tzu horribly.