A tribute to the nice guys.

[Obeliskos]

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgment, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

.

 

[Lucas]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Gracias.

 

[Twisted]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Remove all gender from there and I won't have a problem with it.

 

[Shrike7]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

That brings a tear to my eye...

I agree with Twisted though, I was like that for many guys as well. Also, I'm getting my bf to read this, we both had equally bad luck before we found each other.

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Maybe it's just me, but I have yet to meet a nice girl that's gotten passed over as much as I have. Hell, I get passed over by the nice girls.

Then again, I could be getting passed over because I have a small keg instead of a six-pack, but meh. >.<


Seriously, though. I've been passed over more times than I'd care to count. Why? "Oh, you're more of a brother to me," , "Trust me, I'm a bitch, you don't want to go out with me," , "I don't feel that way about you, but I know plenty of girls who would," (introduces me to X amount of friends, they all say the same), "I'm just not ready for a relationship yet," (has a boyfriend by the end of the next day... not me, btw)

 

[wallpaper]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

My glancing encounters with Nice Guys (tm) are pretty concisely summed up

You must be registered to see the links

.

Don't get me wrong: when a guy is nice to a girl (or when anyone goes out of their way to be nice to someone else, opposite gender or not), it's a sweet thing to do.

Using those nice things as a way to passive-aggressively pin blame on a girl for not putting out is repulsive and smacks of double standards like woah... :x If she's not putting out, try asking about it, and if she doesn't want to and is going to continue to use you, then tell her that you're not comfortable with it. Either be nice and a friend because that's what you want (and feel free to stand up for yourself if she's taking advantage of the fact that you're going so far out of your way to be nice to her), or tell her to fuck off because you want a sexual relationship, then move on.

...And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should.

If you don't understand what is inherently wrong with this quote, then you're doing and thinking about it wrong. Be nice to be nice, not as another sneaky M.O. towards getting laid.

 

[cross_grave]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Amen. One can hope that one day, all these girls that met the nice guys will look back on that relationship and weep. Because they've wasted the best chance ever.

And wallpaper, this is about honest guys. Not sneaky bastards.

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

My glancing encounters with Nice Guys (tm) are pretty concisely summed up

You must be registered to see the links

.

Don't get me wrong: when a guy is nice to a girl (or when anyone goes out of their way to be nice to someone else, opposite gender or not), it's a sweet thing to do.

If this has been your experience with nice guys..... those aren't the nice guys.

Using those nice things as a way to passive-aggressively pin blame on a girl for not putting out is repulsive and smacks of double standards like woah... :x If she's not putting out, try asking about it, and if she doesn't want to and is going to continue to use you, then tell her that you're not comfortable with it. Either be nice and a friend because that's what you want (and feel free to stand up for yourself if she's taking advantage of the fact that you're going so far out of your way to be nice to her), or tell her to fuck off because you want a sexual relationship, then move on.

The NICE guys are the ones who don't expect anything in return. The NICE guys are the ones who honestly want a relationship, not just sex. Anyone who does nice things just to get something in return, i.e. sex, is not a NICE guy... they're a fucking asshole.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

How about the nice girls? I'm bringing it up again, for the third time, because its true, and they are overlooked just as much. Can't find a date because they are not that pretty by society's standards, or don't go out of their way to be sexy, or they are outspoken about whatever they believe.

There is that end of the spectrum too, with plenty of asshole guys as well. So let us not forget that this is all a two way street. To blame it all on women is horrifying to me.

 

[cross_grave]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

A toast should go to the girls as well, then. People usually don't talk about them too much, but people are stupid - no exceptions. Individuals can be smart, but not people.

 

[wallpaper]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

If this has been your experience with nice guys..... those aren't the nice guys.



The NICE guys are the ones who don't expect anything in return. The NICE guys are the ones who honestly want a relationship, not just sex. Anyone who does nice things just to get something in return, i.e. sex, is not a NICE guy... they're a fucking asshole.

Nice Guys (capitals included) are assholes, agreed... but that tribute just smacks of Nice Guy ass-patting because of the 'nice guys should get laid for what they do' comment.

You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Decent, honest relationships aren't synonymous with 'vindication', or they shouldn't be at least. The other person is going to notice pretty quick if that's the guy's motivation.

I agree with Sinful; pinning the blame on women 'not growing up' is horrifying to me, too. Some girls are assholes, true, but if you're a nice guy and you're getting treated like dirt, cut your losses and run, or talk about it and give examples why you're feeling like you're being used. Don't get sulky and use it as a means to get bitter at women in general... that just makes you an asshole, too.

I'm not trying to say that every guy who's nice is a Nice Guy. I'm just saying that this tribute is commemorating the wolf in sheep's clothing, not the genuinely sweet guy who's just nice because that's his personality.

 

[Kattunge]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

I just wanted to say, as a female, that I am leery of self-professed Nice Guys. Too often they expect grand fanfare for doing exactly what a friend would do for another -- too often they expect being that kind of faux close friend is a stepping stone to being a romantic partner. Jesus, there are very very few of my platonic friends who I would even consider dating -- the standards for picking friends and picking lovers are quite different! Too often nice guys expect a mighty ass-pat and a medal for being The self-professed Best Guy Ever for doing exactly what a girl's platonic friends do for her, except that he does it with ulterior motives, and bitches about it when he doesn't automatically get poontang.

All of my encounters with the kinds of fellas described in that initial post have been... interesting. And maybe I've been unlucky, because I like to believe that there are guys who are genuinely nice out there without the desire to get into my heart or pants, but they've mostly been bad.

First time, I was young and naieve. I made a friend with a guy around my age, and we hung out a lot. This was before I thought that it took work for a girl and a guy to be purely platonic friends, so I treated him like I treated my female friends -- we watched movies piled together on the couch, we hung out, we made silly faces in photo booths. I talked about my recent breakup with him. He talked about his girl problems with me.

This was fun, I liked this. And not once did he make a romantic overture towards me, though he did buy us treats when we hung out at the mall and offer to burn his anime collection for me. He seemed like a Nice Guy.

And then one day I get this very strange email from him. He's upset we haven't spent more time together in the last couple of weeks. Okay, so I go visit, thinking maybe he's just bored and needs someone to hang out with... But after that the emails continue, accusing me of being an ice queen, of toying with his heart, of taking Advantage Of His Kindness. I was floored. All this time I had been just treating him like one of my female friends. But none of my female friends ever assumed that being my friend would be a way into my pants -- even the ones who would have been interested in going there.

It culminated in me catching on to what was going on and telling him that a romantic and sexual relationship was just never ever going to happen. He freaked out again over email, and I ended up just breaking contact with the guy because it wasn't worth the shit I was getting. The last time I ever saw him he gave me two movie tickets and a box of very expensive tarot cards. The movie tickets had a painfully passive-aggressive note inside about using them to take the boy I had in the meantime started dating out, and with the cards there was a ridiculous note about how he would never love another as much as he loved me, and how I would never find someone who loved me as much as he did.

All of this without once honestly approaching me and telling me that he'd like to date me. I had to find out when he told me over email that I was an ice queen for not taking it to the next step myself. Boys, that kind of behavior is not attractive, it's repulsive. Lacking the honesty to ask out a girl that you like from the beginning, rather than investing weeks and weeks into pretending to be just-a-friend first when you already KNOW you want to date her, is underhanded and unfair to both you and her.

And if she knows you're interested, and keeps hanging out with you, you are both doin' it wrong -- her for allowing the pretense of friendship to continue when she knows that this is someone who has feelings for her, you for not knowing when it's healthier for you to back off and cut contact for a while until you've gotten over her. Turning yourself into a human doormat for whatever reason is not a good way to live, and it sure as hell is not a way to get dates. I know I for one am attracted to people who seem to know how to take care of themselves emotionally. Refusing to date someone who is emotionally immature and puts up with and even invites being used, is not 'wasting the Best Chance Ever', it's dodging a damn bullet.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Yeah, a bunch of my friends have been sending me that, and in all honesty, I'm not sure how to feel about it. It 'honors' the same end result and most are nice guys because they don't care for that same end result. I'm not nice to people because I'm trying to get in their pants, and they shouldn't let me in just cuz I'm nice to them. I'm glad to be someone that so many of my girl friends think is a nice guy, but it shouldn't be lowered to think that's what I'm looking forward to. Kind of bastardizes the very meaning of my behavior I'd think.

 

[cross_grave]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Gah...

I guess that every person here has his/her own interpretation of the words nice guy/girl... Obe, what were you thinking when you posted this? Did you really want to start a debate like this?

 

[wallpaper]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

It's Obe... if he didn't, I'd be shocked.

 

[cross_grave]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

He likes to provoke people, right? Heh, I guess he's the resident troll.

 

[ShadowWolfSBI]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

Not saying that he was trying to start a debate, not saying that what I'm about to say is what happened...Just pointing out a possibility.

It's possible that Obe saw what it was titled, only skimmed over it or didn't read it overly carefully.


...Given that it's Obe, I'd say it's also within the realm of possibility that it was posted as a joke. I ain't a bookie, so I'm not quoting odds on any of these possibilities.

I'm also going to refrain from explaining my actions in friendship/relationship circumstances. Me being me, that would likely end up being a massive wall-o-text, as I'd end up using multiple examples.

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

My problem is this: Everybody seems to think that there AREN'T any more nice guys (... ok, ok, or nice girls). So, when someone who actually IS a nice guy/girl comes along, they get marked immediately as someone who's just playing at being nice.

THIS irks me to no end, because I'm a NICE guy. I do all the things I do, expecting NOTHING in return. Unfortunately, I DO get something in return; people saying I'm not being nice to be nice - instead, I'm OBVIOUSLY doing it to get into someone's pants - and I get labeled as some faker. Is it REALLY so wrong to want to see other people be happy, that we, as a society, have pretty much decided that nobody is truly a NICE person?

Would it be nice to have a girlfriend that recognizes that I'm a NICE guy? Sure, that'd be great. That's not why I'm a NICE guy, though.



But, then again, maybe this is just something that happens in my little part of the world.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

My problem is this: Everybody seems to think that there AREN'T any more nice guys (... ok, ok, or nice girls). So, when someone who actually IS a nice guy/girl comes along, they get marked immediately as someone who's just playing at being nice.

THIS irks me to no end, because I'm a NICE guy. I do all the things I do, expecting NOTHING in return. Unfortunately, I DO get something in return; people saying I'm not being nice to be nice - instead, I'm OBVIOUSLY doing it to get into someone's pants - and I get labeled as some faker. Is it REALLY so wrong to want to see other people be happy, that we, as a society, have pretty much decided that nobody is truly a NICE person?

Would it be nice to have a girlfriend that recognizes that I'm a NICE guy? Sure, that'd be great. That's not why I'm a NICE guy, though.



But, then again, maybe this is just something that happens in my little part of the world.

It sucks because I get bored of trying to introduce that fact to new people. It's obviously unrealistic to think so, but I wish I could just say to people "I'm a nice guy" and have them believe me. If I was doing it to get girls, I'd probably not be a virgin right now, but my friends have thrown themselves at me after a while and I've turned them down.

Of course I don't expect all the new people I meet to be trusting enough to completely change in the same room as me, but it has happened before and I haven't taken advantage of that trust.

Another problem is the fact it's not an on off switch, it works in degrees like any other part of personality, so you can't just say "oh hes a nice guy, he's not." I hear so much about how we're a dying breed, but deep down, you ask enough guys and you get to see they're nice guys at heart too. If anything it's the really true assholes that are a dying breed. As much as I like getting thanks, I don't appreciate being talked about as if I'm some endangered species. Just take the compliment, leave me alone, and stop trying to feed me fucking peanuts, ya know?

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: A tribute to the nice guys.

and stop trying to feed me fucking peanuts, ya know?

but... but... if they try to give us enough, we could start our own peanut empire, and maybe overthrow that monocle guy!