OOC thread

[BlueSlime]

Re: OOC thread

Garou blood? In MY Tzimisce? *stink face*



And yeah, maybe having the Lasombra being at odds with the Ventrue from a sectarian point of view would still be a good thing. Having them both be in the same sect is like having two Alpha's trying to lead the same pack.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

It does beat vicissitude being a symptom of some kind of outer/inner space virus, or at least it does in my mind.

There is something to be said for having two alphas in the same sect, on the other hand it makes for some interesting conflict. I also tend to think of the Lasombra having more of a priest/advisor bent rather than being leaders. Also it's not much different than having the Ventrue and the Tremere in the same sect.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: OOC thread

It does beat vicissitude being a symptom of some kind of outer/inner space virus, or at least it does in my mind.

Spoiler

But will I start growing fur in places where no fur has grown before?!?!

There is something to be said for having two alphas in the same sect, on the other hand it makes for some interesting conflict. I also tend to think of the Lasombra having more of a priest/advisor bent rather than being leaders. Also it's not much different than having the Ventrue and the Tremere in the same sect.

The Tremere have always been out for themselves. They're independents in Camarilla clothing. But they stay up in their ivory towers and focus on thaumaturgy and mystical power, rather than material, and are content to be the advisors that you seem to see the Lasombra as.

I've always seen the Lasombra as the beyond the pale version of the Ventrue. The merchant class princes hell bent on surpassing the old and outdated noble class. Yes, they like to rule from the Shadows, but maybe the shadows here simply refers to their desire to be a Crime Boss rather than a Corporate Mogul (yeah, yeah, there's little difference sometimes, but hey, that's the fine line between Ventrue and Lasombra)

I also think their Obtenebration discipline sort've gives them a sorcerous cult flavor that should be played out more than it is for the average joe lasombra in the canon clan dynamic.

 

[Ranger Princess]

Re: OOC thread

I like the rivalry between Lasombra and Ventrue too, and I think having them both in the Cam could be fun with all that flippant passive aggressiveness at court. Eliza always loved to deride the Ventrue to any of her friends whenever she could. I could totally see the Lasombra getting into the whole Catholic church thing too with their Spanish heritage. Think of it as how the Vatican could basically dictate what they wanted kings to do and pretended it was because of some religious reason. Now that's a power I could see the Lasombra wrapping their tentacles around.

And I like the shadow sorcery too. I didn't really get into it much in the RP, but I always thought of Eliza as being pretty intense about studying Obtenebration, partially because of her fanatical obsession with her sire who was also big into the shadow arts. It's also just a pretty cool tangible power to have. And tentacles. Wow, all this talk about Lasombra is making me really nostalgic for Eliza.

I like the reclusive Cappadocians with Lamia bodyguards too. That's a nice touch and sounds really interesting. Though I also wonder how the relationship came to be as I always thought of the Lamia being extremely cultish with their worship and devotion to Lilith.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

Nope, no fur for you. That would be the normal vicissitude using Tzimisce. Vezina would be a Shtriga, which are basically what we've developed the old clan into. I don't truly like the old clan as they are canonically written.

That's actually what I was meaning. Give the Lasombra a bit more of a mystic advisor/priest bend and they basically end up filling the slot vacated by the Tremere. Especially if you throw in abyss mysticism rituals. Mostly because I agree that too often the Lasombra you are see are just more evil versions of the Ventrue.

I believe the Lasombra are actually the reason for all the catholic trappings you see in the Sabbat. Though that's one thing that actually bothers me about them, is they should include trappings from other religions as well. In the dark ages there are at least as many Islamic, Jewish, and Pagan Lasombra as there are Catholic. There are a few hints at Zoroastrianism here and there but it seems like the writers just wanted them to be Catholics for some reason.

I never really understood why the Lamia, which is basically a bloodline of Lilith cultists were stuck with the Cappadocians myself. Other than they were embraced by a Cappadocian that is. Perhaps it's just that Cappadocius had a tendency to seek out and embrace those who could fulfill specific roles in his clan. The Caps do have more bloodlines than anyone save maybe the Gangrel.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: OOC thread

Wellll... y'know, this Vicissitude of yours still technically sounds like a disease... the clan got lycan rabies from those mangy furballs!

Borrowing a bit from Werewolf the Apocalypse lore: Vicissitude could work as a result of the Wyld - that primal, spiritual force of change that represents Chaos, getting into the Tzimsice bloodline as a result of Koldunic sorcery. Or you could have it be more insideous and blatantly evil and have the Wyrm spirit infect the Tzimisce bloodline...

The Zulo forms and other war forms of advanced Vicissitude, along with all the War Ghouls shared a striking similarity to the Fomori and Bane Spirits that were the popular antagonists in the Werewolf storyline, so maybe the Wyrm would be a good tie-in. It is basically the most evil thing from the Spirit world that isn't a demon, and the old clan that we've come up with seems to be in touch with the spirit world more than any other. Stands to reason that the Anti-Diluvian could have traveled to the Outer Umbra and struck a deal with an avatar of the Wyrm.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

I guess it doesn't really sound all that different, at a second glance. Hell it's the exact same thing if you really look at it, the whole virus thing was supposed to have originated in the deep umbra canonically, if you count DSotBH as canon at least.

While your idea is a good one and would serve perfectly well. I would rather avoid having to work werewolf cosmology into the game. Though it should be rather simple to rework it without the werewolf terminology. So there would certainly be some work involved if I ever tried to use this idea, since I really hate using GM fiat card. Makes me feel petty.

Granted I am petty, but that's beside the point.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: OOC thread

It wouldn't be hard to get the same result and do away with the WW terminology. Koldunes deal with evil spirits and demons a lot. It makes sense that the Anti-Diluvian Mekhet might have struck a deal with an incredibly powerful promethean spirit (or y'know, Mekhet tried to eat the spirit.)

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

That actually gives me an idea Mekhet fathered the old clan, teaching them the ways of koldunism. Than while off exploring the umbra (for lack of a better term off the top of my head) he eats some demon/spirit. He then comes back and fathers a new line making 2 clans (if Saulot can pull it off why not Mekhet). The other clans don't really notice the difference of course until the civil war breaks out between the two sets of Tzimisce. Even better we'll make it so the Tremere embraced themselves with blood from both sides of the clan.

Still might need some work, not sure if I want to pull off the double clan civil war thing twice.

Also this has to be the theme song for your version of the Sabbat.

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[Sinfulwolf]

Re: OOC thread

The amount of stuff I've been doing with the Umbra in an RP of mine... oh wowza. Not played with vampire clans so much... Shrike knows.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: OOC thread

It's possible that Mekhet absorbed the Spirit's power, thinking he had destroyed it and had acquired the discipline of Vicissitude without cost. He then sired new childer and taught them the discipline, but slowly it became clear that the Spirit was not destroyed but had bonded with Tzimisce's soul, perhaps joining with the Anti-Diluvean's Beast. One way or another, the Spirit ends up changing Mekhet, driving it to become something else, something not entirely vampire or spirit - the mass of Vicissitude-run-wild that we suspect it to be. Maybe Mekhet still has lucid periods where it remembers itself, but those get farther and father between as the centuries proceed.

Maybe the above is only rumored about among the Tzimisce, and the Old Clan regard Vicissitude to be a stain, a disease, and a grave mistake, along with all their New Clan cousins. The New Clan obviously don't notice any ill effects and make excuses for why their Anti-Diluvian has gone into torpor and withdrawn from the world. The clan as a whole could agree to stick together for purposes of protection against rival clans, but the Vicissitude using types breed much more liberally and form a majority that eventually begins to resent the old clan sorcerers, who withhold the elder secrets of koldunism from their promethean cousins.

The resentment gap may not necessarily boil over into a straight up civil war. Maybe the Koldunes simply don't have enough numbers to make it much of a contest? Maybe the Vicissitude users don't want to completely wipe away the potential weapon of koldunic sorcery and its impressive synergy with creating War Ghouls?

---

And yeah, the Hell March is pretty awesome.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

@Sin: I would imagine the umbra gets pretty wowza. I myself I have never been drawn towards werewolf or mage enough to really understand the specifics of the game but I do know enough to understand the spirit world is pretty wowza.

@Blue: Yeah I like that idea a little better than the civil war, now it's more like a cold war. Of course both sides would still be on the lookout for potential allies if a war actually did break out.

I think the Shtriga, or old clan, would tend to favor the Camarilla and the Tzimisce, or new clan, would tend to favor the Anarchs. Of course neither of them have written off the other sects so it would still be quite possible to see them anywhere.

Both sides of the clan would tend to be a little isolationist so it would be incredibly rare to see more than one in any city, with the exception of his childer that is. Fits in well with idea that the Voivodate was more of a rough alliance than a true nation, and also with the extreme politeness and hospitality the clan is known for.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: OOC thread

Just letting everyone know I'm taking off for about 2 weeks on Friday. Won't be back until the last day of August/ first day of September.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

Okey doke, we'll more than likely be here waiting for your return. You never know I might disappear again, not that I plan on it but just in case.

 

[OAMP]

Re: OOC thread

Your ISP isn't Consolidated Communications is it? That was my theory for why you vanish, as it does it's best to do the same for me Not sure if they go that far North though.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

No, that last disappearance was actually because my mom got sick again. My internet is actually working better than it ever has right now. Hopefully neither problem pops up again any time soon.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

Not sure if any of you would have heard but they're apparently going to be coming out with a VTM 4th edition.

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Not entirely sure how I feel about this as it seems kind of soon after making the 20th anniversary edition. Of course if they actually fix a lot of the things wrong with the game I would be all for it. Though I doubt that will actually happen.

 

[dmronny]

Re: OOC thread

I'm unsure if any of you might know but what would the people of Kievan rus and the holy roman empire be referred to as. For example a person from england is english and a person from the western roman empire would be a roman. I suppose I could call them Russians and Germans but I was thinking more of what they would be called at this time period.

Also it might interest you to know that Lhiannan is not a made up name, like most of the bloodlines and clans have. The lhiannan or Leanan Sidhe are basically the celtic fairy version of a succubus or vampire. They were typically though of as muses to bards, which was also why most bards tended to die so young. So Ceit might have a little better idea of what they are then she realized.

 

[OAMP]

Re: OOC thread

As with many things, it depends on the time, and who is doing the referring. After all, the Romans are Greeks, to some. I'll assume we're talking about the early 12th century here though. Using "Germans" would work, but it would have a more broad context, referring to a whole slew of people who aren't actually in the HRE itself. In casual conversation, a lot of people would know what the speaker meant, but technically it could even refer to people like ethnic Lombards, who were still around albeit in very small numbers and were culturally fading fast. A lot of times, for the nation, the HRE was just called "the Empire", as in, THE Empire (and of course this was both in spite of AND because it made the Eastern Romans mad). Even as late as the 18th century it was common for central Europe to just be labeled "the Empire", but to be fair Byzantium had checked out by then.

Russia is more complex (and I'm less knowledgeable here, take what I say with a grain of salt), as at this time, the Duchies really were important. Kiev vs Muscovy was a big deal. Muscovite would definitely be used, and I assume there's a term such as Kievian but I'm not sure exactly what it is. I'd confidently say "Russian" is probably not a term that should be used, though, as "Russia" didn't really come about until Muscovy threw off the Mongols and proceeded to basically inherit the rest of modern day Russia from the horde as it slowly rolled back (and even then, there was intense rivalry between Muscovy and Kiev). In this case I'd wager saying "X is from Kiev" would be better than saying "X is a Kievian" or whatever, if you can just spin that. I'd say as long as you aren't writing a character who is particularly anal about language using "German(s)" would work though.

Edit: Small update, checked this wonderful map again for 1111 which I remember the old game was in, and I think this game is similar time.

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I completely forgot about Novgorod. They're definitely the power player in Russia right now (and a merchant republic type dealio rather than a true duchy). Don't know what their adjective is either, maybe Novgorodian. Also, forgot the HRE had Northern Italy at this time, which was more Germanic than Latin for quite some time, so even more points for German being used there. That being said, "Italian" would refer specifically to the HRE part of Italy as we know it. The rest of Italy was considered part of Sicily at the time (not just the island), and the area in the middle (near Rome itself) was frequently called to as Latium.

 

[OAMP]

Re: OOC thread

Also you'll be happy to know in my in person group last week we ended with dual player frenzie and Ventrue acting Brujah on punk Brujah wannabe Toreador action, heh. Also dumb Nosferatu tried to bias the fight but in the end put a stop to it.