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dmronny

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Re: OOC thread

Yeah the question was more out of personal curiosity rather than a need to know for the game. I'm not even sure why it suddenly occurred to me since no one's prologue is set in either area. For some reason it started bothering me that I couldn't quite explain what you would say if you happened to be from one of those entities. Admittedly though it is hilarious that they would call themselves "The Empire" to piss off the Byzantines (yes I know the term is wrong but it's easier to differentiate).

German certainly makes sense for the the HRE since most of the princes would have been some type of German. of course it might be more appropriate for them to refer to themselves by whatever principality, duchy, etc, etc. for example Saxon or Bavarian. Though now I'm curious as to what you call a person from Baden-Wurtemmburg. The Holy Roman Empire was hardly united after all and some of the smaller entities might consider themselves other than German.

The Kievans was actually bothering me quite a bit, since everything I thought seemed wrong. The word Russian might have come from Kievan rus but it's not the same, Ukrainians as I understand them wouldn't have existed yet. Viking wouldn't work since they would have been pretty much bred into something new by that point in time. So I guess it would be best to go by principality there as well.

Admittedly I didn't realize the Muscovites were really a big power at the time as you can tell by looking at my maps. Though they are based on the geocron maps, I divided the area between the Kievans and Novgorodians as the main powers in the region. I also wasn't sure how much of a republic Novgorod would actually be since there is more than one Novgorodian entity. I also fudged things because I can, so my maps don't match up perfectly with true geography/history.
 

OAMP

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Re: OOC thread

Yeah, I did remember that you changed things to make them more simple. That said, the whole England-France issue is perhaps the easiest issue in the world at that time to understand compared to these other issues :p heh.

In general, it's very likely that someone in this time period, as well as the majority of the HRE's lifespan, would definitely want to be identified by which specific place they were from. The Emperor, probably the majority of the time, didn't get a lot of respect. That said, the whole adjective issue is most likely a failing of the English language. From experience, other languages don't have issues with long/crazy adjectives to describe location being considered weird, and the suffixes English has picked for various places has been shown through linguistic study to have more to do with which *other language* was dominate in world politics when a region was discovered (hence JapanESE, ChinESE come from PortuguESE traders making it there first, for example).

Funny you bring up Vikings for Russia, and there's a small, but vocal community that insists this time period is incorrectly studied for neglecting the Norse connection to Russia, heh. It's been a hot topic, in those circles, the past few years. As for the issue of Ukraine... the fact that we call it Ukraine here in 2015 is, to put it in very simple terms, a fluke. Like Poland, Ukraine originates from a geographic feature term that was adopted by various places for that region long after a functioning government as we know it was in place in the area (and I use the term government in the loosest sense, of course). It's kind of how like we call China China, but China sees itself as "the middle kingdom", but with us using the term that's a description not a name. Another example I guess would be how just saying "The United States" doesn't technically "name" the country. The "America" part is technically needed if you want to be specific. Mexico, after all, is "The United States of Mexico" in full form. Ukraine is a very similar issue, except much much more politicized, as saying "THE Ukraine" would be how a Russian would traditionally say it, with the meaning "this is OUR Ukraine". As you can imagine, putting the in front of Ukraine and saying it to a pro-Western Ukrainian will likely be an easy way to get your face rearranged. The fact that country actually uses that name rather than changing it is awkward to say the least, but unlike past centuries, Kiev's influence as a city has been greatly diminished because of a very long story that heavily involves Stalin and a lot more history further back than I'm not even confident to comment on. Culturally and linguistically, the relationship between Ukraine and Russia now might be described as closer in example to Mandarin vs Cantonese than to English vs German. I mean, for instance, I'm very very slowly learning Russian, and by and large because of vocabulary my efforts have given me identical progression in *written* Ukrainian, but there are definite and clear distinctions.

I guess in short, what I'm trying to say is that "modern Ukraine", such as it is, is very much a product of "recent" history. That is not to say that Ukraine didn't already have a separate identity, just that to a scholar more that 150 or so years ago, the country in it's current form would likely not even be something they could conceive of. Of course, as we've pointed out as the massive irony, if you wanted to look for "Ukrainians" in the 12th century, they would be the fore bearers of what we know of as modern Russians. The reason the idea of Ukraine as separate stuck around long enough to transform into the modern idea is the land was so valuable that neighboring countries like Poland were always fighting for it. Kiev never so much willingly joined the pan-Russian movement as was taken over because of constant wars over the best farm land in the region. If you wanted a blanket term, "Slav" is probably really the only thing that would work.
 
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dmronny

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Re: OOC thread

Yeah, English history is rather simple to understand compared to other parts of Europe. I guess it helps to be somewhat isolated on an island, of course that didn't really simplify Ireland in the least. I guess that's explained by them being Irish though.

Technically most places in Europe would be better described by their regional variants, with the exception of England. There is a pretty big difference between someone from Anjou and Languedoc after all. Not to mention all the groups in the western roman empire. Now I want to make the Spanish or English reach Asia first, just so I can call them Chinish and Japanish. Or how about the Chininch, Chinican, or Chinerian. Darn crazy English language.

I always thought the Norse connection was pretty well known but then I don't actually hang out with history majors often. Yeah Ukraine is sort of the Iraq of Europe isn't it, or is it the Afghanistan of Europe. Meh, pretty much the same thing more or less. I always heard the term "little Russia" more but I imagine it would have pretty much the same effect on a Ukrainian. Slav probably is the best blanket term now that you mention it, though I'm sure that would perturb someone somewhere as well.
 

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Re: OOC thread

Technically, if you wanted to, you could blame Lithuania for everything. Ukraine has always had at least history going for it, but Belarus, not so much... Belarus is basically the Russian cultured part of historical Lithuania that's been entirely divorced from the country we actually call "Lithuania", and if there's one of the former Soviet republics that shouldn't be, it's probably Belarus (and in fact if it weren't for the fact that Lushenko has so much fun running his own country, Russia probably would have reannexed it already). Typically, Lithuania (and Byzantium) were the ones who were fighting over Ukraine from the other Russias. Also side note, but I always have liked the style "Tsar of ALL the Russias" that was used, heh.
 
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dmronny

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Re: OOC thread

That's Lukashenko. And I always figured Russia kept him around to make Putin seem relatively sane by comparison. Seriously what is with dictators and straight up kookiness. I guess I shouldn't complain since I wouldn't have as many funny lists to keep myself occupied otherwise.

Though I think if we're going to blame someone it should be the church, if they hadn't let the Teutonic and Livonian Brotherhood of the Sword do that whole northern crusade thing.

Then again maybe it's the Ventrue clans fault always trying to beat the Tzimisce.
 

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Re: OOC thread

I'm on Vicodin after some complications with a tooth extraction, I'm not looking how to spell his name up in that mood :p

Honestly, they had the deal all worked out, they basically just couldn't agree on the details such as revisions to the flag, what would happen to him, etc. Alas, I've been in a very Cold War nostalgic mood lately too. That, and with all the sales for games by Paradox lately, I'm in the mood for annexing :p If you ever find yourself with around 500 spare hours, you should pick up the series. It's now possible to play from 769-present day ;)
 
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dmronny

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Re: OOC thread

Ah, yes vicodin. The last time I got that I slept for a week. Of course I also get drowsy from tylenol so I may not be the best example.

Only 500 spare hours you say, sleeping and eating is really no more than a suggestion right.
 

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Re: OOC thread

Since Christmas 2012 I have around 1000 hours in CK2 alone, heh, which covers this time period. I likely have even more in the WW2 era game, but I was into that long before it was on steam, and thus before a record of my hours existed.
 
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dmronny

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Yeah kind of makes me wonder how many hours I spent playing Total Art of War. That was back in the day of play by e-mail, when I was the cool guy in the barracks. I was cool mostly because I had the fastest dial-up speed of 56 mbps.

I have played the first Hearts of Iron and Europa Universalis but now most of my gaming comes via X-box. They were both excellent games but I don't have that kind of time anymore
 

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Re: OOC thread

Speaking of play by email... I have a full functional copy of this board game in an excel file...

Seriously, it's the entire game, in an excel file, and it works like a charm... passed back and forth between players. It's probably a game you'd like, based on Cold War balance of power.
 
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dmronny

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Re: OOC thread

It does seem like the type of game I would play, not that I would be good at it mind you. I was never good at TOAW, which is actually kind of disturbing since it was very similar to my job in the army.

I guess that's why I was only an NCO as opposed to a general though. Then again knowing some of the generals I met maybe we should all be worried.
 

OAMP

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Heh, well it more takes a mind of someone into foreign affairs. The difficult part is the mechanics, because it's in a freaking excel file, and that's crazy, heh. I imagine playing it in person would be a lot easier, and the site rates it as only needing 3 hours to play that way.
 
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dmronny

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Re: OOC thread

I used to have nightmares about excel when I was in the army, but that's what happens when you have to teach yourself how to make databases in it. They were division sized databases to boot. The horror, the horror.

Plus the power point nightmares were far worse.
 

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Re: OOC thread

I've heard power point horror stories from friends/colleagues who were in the Air Force. ;)
 

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Re: OOC thread

Death by Power Point...
 
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dmronny

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Yep, it's a little known fact in the civilian world but all officers over the rank of captain love colorful pictures, charts, and maps. Useful if you ever find yourself needing to distract them. The charts and such don't even need to make sense or mean anything.

The worst part was having to basically give the same briefing every single day that I was in Iraq. Seriously the weather is not going to randomly change other than to possibly go over a hundred a few times each week.

Seriously I would rather go out and disarm IED's using only my ass cheeks than to sit and try and give an intelligence briefing to anyone.
 

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Re: OOC thread

It still throws me off to hear temperature that high in Farenheit. Before my brain reminds me, my first thought is always "How the hell does your blood not boil you from the insides?"
 

BlueSlime

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Re: OOC thread

Sorry for the delay in posting. Aside from being busy, I also couldn't really decide on what I wanted Vezina to do next. In the end, I went for the direct and action-y route.

Seems that will be the most fun at least, if not the most prudent.
 
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dmronny

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Tis okay since it's been a very busy month on my end as well. I should get posts up in the next few days.
 

OAMP

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Re: OOC thread

Perhaps relevant to your interests Ronny ;)

 
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