Nearfatal Paetron up.

[droglob]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

good stuff has come out of patreon, like Breeding Season.

Say WHAT? LOL

The thing is, Patreon is not about funding projects, it's about funding people. That's the problem, you are not giving money to help pay for programmers, artists, composers, actors, you are just giving money to the owner of the account, and what he/she does with it is his/her business. Was HuniePop on Patreon? cause if not then i haven't seen anything good come out of it yet.

Also, there's games and then there's "games". Some are that easy, others require a multitude of talents and dedication.

 

[an anonymous]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Say WHAT? LOL

The thing is, Patreon is not about funding projects, it's about funding people. That's the problem, you are not giving money to help pay for programmers, artists, composers, actors, you are just giving money to the owner of the account, and what he/she does with it is his/her business. Was HuniePop on Patreon? cause if not then i haven't seen anything good come out of it yet.

Also, there's games and then there's "games". Some are that easy, others require a multitude of talents and dedication.

it's called modern internet roberie:
people's which are to lazy to work for money, are posting empty promises
and waiting for stupid and bored people to pay them,
they don't even need to thread someone or move their lazy asses to steal money because stupid people youst giving them money,

even south park makes a funny episode about it

You must be registered to see the links

i'm slightly trolling by the way

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Not even close. Even if it's shovelware they made a product and then put it up on display for people to buy, the majority letting the customer demo their work beforehand. That is the complete opposite of this welfare site, where people ask for exorbitant amounts of money for nothing more then a promise. If the DLsite hack's product sucks he doesn't get payed.

Then don't fund it, problem solved. Nearly every Patreon site I have visited has had some sort of product in place to show the customer what they are funding. Be it a web comic, a manga, game screen shots, a released game, or a demo. Are there shady people on Patreon? Yes. There are shady people in EVERY single facet of our economy. No market is free of shady people.

I run a Patreon, and I only get paid when I release content. I'm not extorting money from anyone, and I appreciate every person who has pledged to my game so far. I also do my best to get them involved with game content polls, having them create NPCs in game, etc. I see it as a community effort and they are supporting that effort. In the end, the game will be released for free.

Personally, I think you're a fool to create a game and sell it on DLSite. The rampant piracy in this market makes that model obsolete. You're much better off funding as you go.

 

[HentaiWriter]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Personally, I think you're a fool to create a game and sell it on DLSite. The rampant piracy in this market makes that model obsolete. You're much better off funding as you go.

To be fair, I halfway agree with you;

Selling the game on the English DLSite is pretty much not worth it, because;
1) Piracy (as you mentioned)
2) Signing up for DLSite is a massive pain in the ass, as compared to almost any other service
3) The insane rates that DLSite skims off of your profits
4) Having to censor your game

All of which results in very low sales.

HOWEVER

The Japanese DLSite, if you can get your game translated, is honestly worth it, because;

1) The amount of publicity is HUGE on the JPN DLSite due to it basically being THE site to sell your eroge games.
2) Due to the Japanese culture (for most of their society), pirating games happens a ton less there than it does here. This is really evident in the huge increase in sales compared to the ENG DLSite, etc.
3) Westerners hate censored stuff, but over there, it's the norm, so it's not really a huge detriment for them, etc.
4) Much like how a lot of Westerners go nuts over stuff from the East, the reverse happens; if you're selling your stuff over there, you have the "foreign factor" that helps your sales just that little bit too.

So I'd recommend putting it on Patreon first, which is mostly Westerners using that service, and then putting it on the JPN DLSite afterwards, since most people from the East don't have access to/don't use Patreon, AFAIK.

 

[MajinLuffy]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Totally agree with YummyTiger. Honestly, I had in mind DLSite just because I'm not so sure about funding yet and don't know where else, but I checked your page and it did make sense the way you charge. Also, DLSite charges way too much imho.

EDIT: Actually, HentaiWriter, that was kind of what I was thinking when considering DLSite, the huge amount of publicity. But unless you know Japanese or you dedicate yourself to make platform games with no text, I think it actually hurts the sales. I believe we, westerners, are more willing to play an RPG in japanese even if we don't understand what the hell they are saying in the game, than a japanese is to play an english RPG if he don't understand it. Honestly, I don't remember english games with decent sales other than Kyrieru's games. And that's why I wasn't so sure of DLsite either, I plan on mostly making RPGs now. In fact, because of that I have been thinking on ways to tell the story and objectives as much as I can with graphics and less text.

In the end I might give Patreon a try, when I can finally sit and resume working on it.

 

[droglob]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Then don't fund it, problem solved

Don't worry i don't.

Nearly every Patreon site I have visited has had some sort of product in place to show the customer what they are funding. Be it a web comic, a manga, game screen shots, a released game, or a demo.

Stop using the word funding. Funding implies that the money goes directly towards the project. It doesn't. Also the problem is having people pay for expectations that are not met, and that then leaves room for all kinds of questions.

Are there shady people on Patreon? Yes. There are shady people in EVERY single facet of our economy. No market is free of shady people.

Patreon's system promotes shady business, not just the way payments go but the bubble surrounding the site.

I run a Patreon, and I only get paid when I release content. I'm not extorting money from anyone, and I appreciate every person who has pledged to my game so far. I also do my best to get them involved with game content polls, having them create NPCs in game, etc. I see it as a community effort and they are supporting that effort. In the end, the game will be released for free.

Well then we shouldn't really be having this conversation now should we? Haven't you heard the expression "having a dog in the fight"? Who says you are extorting money? Do you feel like you are extorting money? Even the actual scammers aren't extorting money.

Personally, I think you're a fool to create a game and sell it on DLSite. The rampant piracy in this market makes that model obsolete. You're much better off funding as you go.

I understand, but such is life on the zone.

Note that i have never played your game or followed what happens in your Patreon, i don't know your work. I am speaking in broad terms that might not apply to you. Bottom line, my point was that there is a lot of shady shit going on on Patreon and it's patently clear when someone tries to jump on the bandwagon for the wrong reasons.

 

[YummyTiger]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Stop using the word funding. Funding implies that the money goes directly towards the project. It doesn't. Also the problem is having people pay for expectations that are not met, and that then leaves room for all kinds of questions.

Who says the money does not go directly towards the project? Patreon does not have to be some obscure donation system. Just because a few people run it that way, does not mean it is the only way to run it. I've seen Patreon's that have goals where artists are hired, or additional programmers. That is money which is FUNDING the development of a product.

Patreon's system promotes shady business, not just the way payments go but the bubble surrounding the site.

The Internet promotes shady business, should we stop using it? I've never had a problem looking over a Patreon project, evaluating the person creating the Patreon, and determining whether it is risky. If the person has not proven themselves to be productive or released anything, and they are looking for a monthly payment, I move on. You should establish yourself first, even then, I agree with you that monthly payments are shady. I much prefer to see content based payment methods.

Well then we shouldn't really be having this conversation now should we? Haven't you heard the expression "having a dog in the fight"? Who says you are extorting money? Do you feel like you are extorting money? Even the actual scammers aren't extorting money.

You implied Patreon creators are extorting money. Also, yes, I am biased, but you appear to hold biased views against Patreon. It is in my best interest to defend the medium, as I am trying to use it. That is why it pisses me off as well when someone takes advantage of their supporters. It hurts the entire system. That said, Patreon is a great way for an artist to actually make money for their work--something that is sorely lacking in our society. We love playing these games, but cringe when we have to pay for them...

Note that i have never played your game or followed what happens in your Patreon, i don't know your work. I am speaking in broad terms that might not apply to you. Bottom line, my point was that there is a lot of shady shit going on on Patreon and it's patently clear when someone tries to jump on the bandwagon for the wrong reasons.

I mainly used my game as an example of someone trying to run a transparent Patreon model. I hope people take note and try to persuade other authors to do the same. I agree, there is a lot of shady shit on Patreon. But, Hell, there is A LOT of shady shit throughout the hentai market. Honestly, I'm probably arguing this in the wrong thread, as it does seem like from prior comments that this author is questionable. So, please, definitely take droglob's advice and use caution when funding Patreon, just don't assume ALL of us are shady bastards

 

[droglob]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

You implied Patreon creators are extorting money

I honestly don't understand where you are getting this from.

just don't assume ALL of us are shady bastards

I'm sorry if this is what it ended up sounding like, it was not my intention.

 

[Ryka]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Crowdfunding is like the police force. There are good ones and there are bad ones. NearFatal is pretty much someone who had a history of not owning up to their promises, and have once requested very sensitive credentials in order to be "trusted" for a full game that never came about.

No one here is insulting every crowdfunder, just those few that are either shady, money hungry, or both.

I do not know NearFatal personally, but I have seen the posts of those scorned by his or her tactics. The posts sounded sad and angry. Some of these posters I think never trusted a living soul since.

It has effects.

 

[omp1234]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Kickstarter is a funding program. You are a patron. Patron implies you are a general supporter of a cause. The cause is outlined as "Help me continue to make games." You need no end goal with patronage, you simply support someone financially as they pursue endeavors. So yes, that guy is right. You're not funding anything, you're being someone's patron.

 

[Papanomics]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Kickstarter is a funding program. You are a patron. Patron implies you are a general supporter of a cause. The cause is outlined as "Help me continue to make games." You need no end goal with patronage, you simply support someone financially as they pursue endeavors. So yes, that guy is right. You're not funding anything, you're being someone's patron.

I think that sums it up.

I only really support one person on that service, and she only gets paid when work gets done. I was supporting other people who get paid monthly, but then I realized that there wasn't work coming out consistently. Upon further investigation, it was never set up for me to be paying for their work. I'm just giving them money while they work (or maybe not work).

So I decided to stop funding that person, because I had done it for the wrong reasons.

 

[omp1234]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

I think that sums it up.

I only really support one person on that service, and she only gets paid when work gets done. I was supporting other people who get paid monthly, but then I realized that there wasn't work coming out consistently. Upon further investigation, it was never set up for me to be paying for their work. I'm just giving them money while they work (or maybe not work).

So I decided to stop funding that person, because I had done it for the wrong reasons.

Yeah, patreon was spawned for the sole purpose of giving people with extraordinary fanbases a way to ask for money for what they do without having to syndicate themselves with a paying entity (be it Youtube or televised media), or merchandising and creating products. It's for already-popular internet people to ask their fans for money for little bonus treats as they continue to do what they do. Patreon does not advertise your endeavors, it is simply a Paypal siphon for those who subscribe to it.

It's not as stable as syndication, merchandising and product sales, and if you don't already have a large fanbase, it's pretty much useless.

Nearfatal, to my recollection, has been relatively unpopular and forgotten for a while now, so I don't think this will pull in the kind of cash he's hoping for. I remember his works from the early 2000's and seeing this thread is a blast from the past.

 

[omp1234]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Christ, $1800/month and he'll take that as his full-time job? Is he out of his fucking MIND? $1800/month is chump change, not to mention he'll be throwing away his retirement and health coverage. He'll be paying cash for EVERYTHING and working til the day he dies, which at $1800/month might be 20 years from now. You ever pay cash for hospital bills without insurance? Eyeglasses? Dentists? With your basic health care plan, your price is chopped by HALF or a THIRD.

Kids at home, don't throw away your day job for a hobby like indie porn game development. He could be making lateral moves in the advertising industry, working his way up to some DOPE cash, and still making games while getting a hefty income.

 

[azurezero]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Christ, $1800/month and he'll take that as his full-time job? Is he out of his fucking MIND? $1800/month is chump change, not to mention he'll be throwing away his retirement and health coverage. He'll be paying cash for EVERYTHING and working til the day he dies, which at $1800/month might be 20 years from now. You ever pay cash for hospital bills without insurance? Eyeglasses? Dentists? With your basic health care plan, your price is chopped by HALF or a THIRD.

Kids at home, don't throw away your day job for a hobby like indie porn game development. He could be making lateral moves in the advertising industry, working his way up to some DOPE cash, and still making games while getting a hefty income.

god i would love 1800usd a month...

 

[Nimrod]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Christ, $1800/month and he'll take that as his full-time job? Is he out of his fucking MIND? $1800/month is chump change, not to mention he'll be throwing away his retirement and health coverage. He'll be paying cash for EVERYTHING and working til the day he dies, which at $1800/month might be 20 years from now. You ever pay cash for hospital bills without insurance? Eyeglasses? Dentists? With your basic health care plan, your price is chopped by HALF or a THIRD.

Kids at home, don't throw away your day job for a hobby like indie porn game development. He could be making lateral moves in the advertising industry, working his way up to some DOPE cash, and still making games while getting a hefty income.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about american bureaucracy, but i'm fairly sure you can set up health care and make a retirememnt plan with your bank as a freelance, like you can do in pretty much every single nation of the first world.

 

[freeko]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

$1800 a month is 21.6k a year before taxes. Roughly what I make with my regular part time job. If you looked at someone who was paid roughly minimum wage for 40 hours a week throughout the course of a year, would be making less than that. Lets say 52 weeks in a standard year, 40 hours in a standard full time work week, and 8 dollars an hour. 52*40*8 = $16,640

Just want to point that out.

I would say that the minimum that I would look for is about 40k a year were I to leave what I was doing now and go into full time game development. I would not for example leave the part time job that I have now that pays roughly similarly to this 21k, to take on a full time job that paid me similarly. For him it may well be a step up from his current situation of having a part time job that does not even pay the 16k a year I used in my example to be working full time in game development for 21k.

The point is simple, for some it would be a step upward to be functionally guaranteed 21.6k a year to perform what would amount to a full time job. I on the other hand would need to be making significantly more than that to maintain my standard of living (along with my retirement and insurance benefits and so forth..) to consider making games full time.

Personal feelings on patreon aside, since it should be fairly obvious where I stand on it. It may end up working out for him, and in the long run if he is somehow successful he could be making alot more than 21.6k a year though I believe the likelyhood of sustainment at that level would be very unlikely at best.

For every success there are a significant greater number of failures. I care neither way about this particular person though I understand his methodology of thinking for how he has the goals set up.

 

[Scherzo]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about American bureaucracy, but i'm fairly sure you can set up health care and make a retirememnt plan with your bank as a freelance, like you can do in pretty much every single nation of the first world.

$1800 a month is actually about 50 cents to $2 an hour less than US minimum wage, assuming 40 hours a week of full time work.

However, US minimum wage pretty much assumes you're a kid living with their parents still, that's simply not enough to live on in most parts of the country. Or... at least the parts that have decent internet access. (Cost of living is quite variable)

You might be able to squeak by on that with a couple of roomies to split the rent and utility costs, but you'd be very hard pressed to have leftover cash to stash into retirement funds. Healthcare is actually hard to say, because a few years ago, it would have been simply impossible to get your own heath care at that income level without an employer plan. (And people at that income level typically DON'T get health care benefits) But the affordable care act (AKA "Obamacare") adds some subsidized channels for low-income people to actually GET healthcare now, at the cost of making healthcare mandatory, but the system is really new and they're working out the kinks so we don't really know how well it works yet.


Anyway, I think a lot of people use Patreon for this simply because they turn a blind eye to adult projects. Pretty much your only other choice is OffBeatr, and they take a MASSIVE cut of your funds off the top.

 

[freeko]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Scherzo, you are wrong about minimum wage being less. Federal minimum wage is currently $7.25 and I used $8 for my example. Though I agree with most of the rest of what you are saying.

 

[mayaktheunholy]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

$1800 a month is actually about 50 cents to $2 an hour less than US minimum wage, assuming 40 hours a week of full time work.

*snip*

Anyway, I think a lot of people use Patreon for this simply because they turn a blind eye to adult projects. Pretty much your only other choice is OffBeatr, and they take a MASSIVE cut of your funds off the top.

Patreon takes a chunk too, maybe not as much, but that $1800 wouldn't really be $1800. They take a flat .32 per transaction, then a percentage after that. So it also depends on how much each patron gives. The lower the amount, the more you would lose.

Also worth mentioning, Offbeatr places restrictions on the type of adult content you can produce (no bestiality for instance). Patreon does not, they just require your content is marked as adult.

 

[omp1234]

Re: Nearfatal Paetron up.

Guys, as a reminder, this is an incredibly UNSTABLE income. It's based entirely around popularity and sales for a niche product. If you made 1800/month for 40 years then that's one thing, but how long do you honestly expect him to make that much from people through patreon? Unless his entire advertisement agency goes under or he fucks up as an employee, then he's going to have a stable career. His H-game development career has been a bust since it first began, and even if he started making that $1800/month income, for how long is that going to last? How many seasoned game development companies tanked since they started only 20 years ago?