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Divine Arms by ViperV (patreon, conituation of deleted thread)


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He deleted his own thread? Thats good actually since now he can't request a lockdown on the game's discussion since its not HIS thread anymore. At least I think/hope that it works that way. I hate it when these devs claim "harassment" or "unproductive discussion" when someone holds their feet to the fire, especially when there's no effort done to diffuse the situation, often doing the contrary.
 
For my 2 cents on this issue since I've been following but not participating is that Patreon makes money on promises. As long as the developer continues to make promises of bigger and grander things, cash flow will continue. Now, the idea itself is not a bad thing, however, you can see what a system built on promises will fail. First and foremost, there is no accountability. Once supporters are secured the creator does not necessarily need to continue significant work on the game, excuses on delays, personal issues and other such tactics will make the supporters sympathize with them and continue support even after significant progress has halted. Here lies the biggest problem, patreon creators will earn the bulk of their money from the development process, and they realize this. The longer it is stretched out, the longer their steady income is secured for minimal work. Now, these comments are mostly for abusers of the system there are people with the passion and drive that they use patreon in its intended purpose. I see people say that patreon is a system where the creator puts a blueprint of the end product up and the supporters give them money to make it happen. However I'd like to point out that rather than a blue print, they made an ad, and people are paying to make the ad into a product. The ad will make promises, promises that may not be kept, promises that may take a very long time to realize.

My advice for supporters is this: before committing your support, observe the creator for a bit, if they have a lower $1 tier, support that and watch their progress. If you see they only have reports on delays, excuses, personal issues, these are all red flags that the creator is using delaying tactics to extend development time. The mark of someone that deserves your support is marked by timely updates, constant communication with their supporters, and meaning progress.
 
Actually after browsing his old posts and ChrisArmin's site. Most of the anmations seems to be done by Chris (that quality wow). With all that drama about Chris not wanting to animate for him anymore due to "rapevine being too dark to his taste" and who knows what, no surprise he is stuck with that 1 complete animation per enemy (right now there is 4 enemies but I wouldn't say any single 1 of them is completed since each was planned to have 4 different animation scenes).

But seriously what puzzled me was after trying his first demo on Newground, that build basically already had all the core gameplay laid down, even he himself admitted the core engine is completed and it's uploaded 2 years ago. So for these 2 whole years, if we assume Chris was the one doing all the animation(totally look like his, even the way he present the sketches on his site), all viperv did was changing the map layouts, minor tweaks and bug fixes here and there, and trying to make Chris's animation work in his engine(apparently it didn't work at first, but who knows). Do they really need 2 whole years to complete a few animation scenes and minor changes. Thinking about it logically no wonder he got so much hate on him.

Regarding the future progress, he mentioned Chris will finish all the enemies and 1 boss that was already planned for stage 1. Looking at ViperV facebook, it seems he already start looking for a new animator, so welp quality. This project is a total mess now and soon.
 
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Exactly. Dude did not address how come engine is already built and why it took a lot for just to animate chris' art. Seems to me he has a ready made game and he just cashed in given that new info.

I wish we can share this info on his patreon but i already unsubbed after this week's buggy release.

intetesting thing is the accounts that seem to circle jerk him have unsubscribed already and their patreon posts are now not visible. Huh hmm.
 
I kinda lost all hope when he wrote "I'll finish the game you assholes, this is my game and I will do with it as I please". Even though he can't do jack shit without his artist. And his patrons (understandably) don't want another artist. The main thing that got them hooked is the amazing quality of the drawings and animations. People surely didn't stay patrons for over 2 years just to play a shitty flash game with generic gameplay, they just want good hentai content, which was promised by him. And since he can't keep that promise, his game will fail

Also nobody should link to his Patreon, he'll probably get more people hooked with his false promises, and rob them of their hard earned money
 
Not sure if his latest respond within this forum were actually real him or not but I kinda feel left off with some mixed feeling.

Well, it's my experience long ago in certain game online that I encountered certain individual who have habit and addictive of using foul word and foul mount even to those he's not familiar with. He behave very bad to everything except to his 'friends' which I like to call 'Beneficially relate'

The game feature shop system that let people price their goods freely while the only rule apply as 'only those labeled price not matched with the actual price can get ban'. He make his way with multiple account and set up overpriced shop all over the place, using the gap hole in the rule that he'll never get ban unless those price and matched accordingly and brack about GM can't so him shit as he didn't do anything against the rule.

While GM didn't actually ban him out of his intention of scamming the people with no precaution but solely according to the rule, GM get hated and so does the scammer but his face are too thick to be ashamed. Instead he call those hating him a 'loser' and 'trash' who can't do jack shit about him while he bath in gold and money of his victim day by days to the point where every time his IGN pop-out there will be global massage of people all over the place cursing him for how lowly he is - with almost unending fund he get from the sweat and blood of legit player who try to build themselves the right way now lose those hard earned virtual money to him just because they didn't have enough precaution, he become the only one that has the most highest enhanced gears in whole game with the money that he never took an effort to find them his own.

While GM didn't even care to consider about this guy stand point just because he didn't do anything against the law even tho his intention are pure scamming, he doesn't need a single online friend to play with as he has just enough 'beneficially relate' to play with him anytime he need a party member - those who leach off his money without know of remorse and pity to those who get scammed.
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A story ends here now back to the point, all of this is related to a habit he love to use foul word freely. Maybe it just he love to or his style but I just can't lift this feeling out of my chest unless I burst them out into the story.

I didn't have anything against the usage of bad mount or foul word but my bad experience about them are as trauma as that.
For the guy who behave this way just destroyed the community of game I loved and their MOD can't do anything about them(or just don't want to) kinda let me down a tons.

I can only hope that ViperV are not such a guy who looked down on people mistake and stomp on top of them all over. This is the least I expect him to be as an average guy who just love to use foul word - not an asshole.
 
blaster said:
Not sure if his latest respond within this forum were actually real him or not but I kinda feel left off with some mixed feeling.

Well, it's my experience long ago in certain game online that I encountered certain individual who have habit and addictive of using foul word and foul mount even to those he's not familiar with. He behave very bad to everything except to his 'friends' which I like to call 'Beneficially relate'

The game feature shop system that let people price their goods freely while the only rule apply as 'only those labeled price not matched with the actual price can get ban'. He make his way with multiple account and set up overpriced shop all over the place, using the gap hole in the rule that he'll never get ban unless those price and matched accordingly and brack about GM can't so him shit as he didn't do anything against the rule.

While GM didn't actually ban him out of his intention of scamming the people with no precaution but solely according to the rule, GM get hated and so does the scammer but his face are too thick to be ashamed. Instead he call those hating him a 'loser' and 'trash' who can't do jack shit about him while he bath in gold and money of his victim day by days to the point where every time his IGN pop-out there will be global massage of people all over the place cursing him for how lowly he is - with almost unending fund he get from the sweat and blood of legit player who try to build themselves the right way now lose those hard earned virtual money to him just because they didn't have enough precaution, he become the only one that has the most highest enhanced gears in whole game with the money that he never took an effort to find them his own.

While GM didn't even care to consider about this guy stand point just because he didn't do anything against the law even tho his intention are pure scamming, he doesn't need a single online friend to play with as he has just enough 'beneficially relate' to play with him anytime he need a party member - those who leach off his money without know of remorse and pity to those who get scammed.
========================================================================================

A story ends here now back to the point, all of this is related to a habit he love to use foul word freely. Maybe it just he love to or his style but I just can't lift this feeling out of my chest unless I burst them out into the story.

I didn't have anything against the usage of bad mount or foul word but my bad experience about them are as trauma as that.
For the guy who behave this way just destroyed the community of game I loved and their MOD can't do anything about them(or just don't want to) kinda let me down a tons.

I can only hope that ViperV are not such a guy who looked down on people mistake and stomp on top of them all over. This is the least I expect him to be as an average guy who just love to use foul word - not an asshole.
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Sounds like freaking maplestory lol.

On topic, he definitely got pretty butthurt earlier, when another guy quoted his explanation and dissect it. Pretty much burnt him on point so he just delete the thread. Regarding that message a few days ago, he did apologised about it but hey, no one here really cares about that as long as he get his game done. That's all we ask for especially people who dump money into his patreon for months or even years.
 
kiko said:
I kinda lost all hope when he wrote "I'll finish the game you assholes, this is my game and I will do with it as I please". Even though he can't do jack shit without his artist. And his patrons (understandably) don't want another artist. The main thing that got them hooked is the amazing quality of the drawings and animations. People surely didn't stay patrons for over 2 years just to play a shitty flash game with generic gameplay, they just want good hentai content, which was promised by him. And since he can't keep that promise, his game will fail

Also nobody should link to his Patreon, he'll probably get more people hooked with his false promises, and rob them of their hard earned money
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I thought the orginal scenes from the first demo was actually his own art and he only hired someone because he didn't think it was good enough for what he was getting and to make dev time go down? I always wondered what was the point of him even getting an artist when his own art was still pretty good.
 
dijitz said:
I thought the orginal scenes from the first demo was actually his own art and he only hired someone because he didn't think it was good enough for what he was getting and to make dev time go down? I always wondered what was the point of him even getting an artist when his own art was still pretty good.
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I believe everything except the new sex scenes are all his and looks decent, he just chose to hire Chrisarmin to do the animated sex scenes. Well he is the dev he can do what he want and hire who he wants, that's what all that patreon money is for as long as he delivers.
Which he did at a speed of... err.. I still don't know why there was such a ridiculous big delay.
 
I feel like it should be added that he admitted that during the two years he had disappeared, he admitted that he wasn't working on the game and instead was furthering his "education" in programming. Basically, he was taking funds for a project which he had promised and worked on something else instead. At that point, I tore him a new one, which is probably why he deleted his own thread.
 
I already consider this game to be a failure and i've written it off a long time ago. People need to stop throwing money are projects that constantly fail to produce results. A dev like Zell23 or Sourjelly is worth 100 of this guy, whose made a ton of money from what amounts to one animation.
 
If the game is bad or never comes out, this is still a success. The amount of money made here has to be enough to cover an decent game's sales. Patreon is a good idea. Many creators take advantage of the service. Hard to say no to that money when all you have to do is make a monthly blog post about work you may or may not have done yet. I guess he got fired from Hentaikey?
 
Papanomics said:
If the game is bad or never comes out, this is still a success.
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You must be registered to see the links


I mean, you can technically define this project as a "success", but you're stretching the meaning pretty far.

The amount of money made here has to be enough to cover an decent game's sales.
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A game that will never get published and money that never went to the project it was meant for. Your point is irrelevant.

Patreon is a good idea. Many creators take advantage of the service.
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If anything, this case is evidence that patreon is a bad idea and needs to be killed ASAP. While I don't fully commit to that mindset, your reasoning is curious, if a bit concerning.

Hard to say no to that money when all you have to do is make a monthly blog post about work you may or may not have done yet. I guess he got fired from Hentaikey?
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It's not hard to say no to something if you know you're not doing the work people expected based on your own word. It's not hard to say no unless your moral fiber is zero. He also didn't make a monthly blog post about what he did/didn't do, and his previous employment situation is wholly irrelevant to the conversation. Before you post, Papanomics, kindly read the damn thread. People have been posting that he basically took the money and ran without doing any work or keeping people appraised of his situation. He scammed, and people are keeping the discussion going with the hopes that his supporters and supporters of patreon devs will be skeptical about pledging in the future.

If you're not going to read the thread and only campaign for more uninformed pledging, then you're part of the problem.
 
It is probably a good idea for patreon to crack down on it. Then they`ll move to being early access porn games on steam with downloadable mods/patches for sex.
 
Not sure if we can have him accountable bc patreon doesn't have consumer protection rights. The worst case would be false advertisement, if he cannot be held under slowness and irresponsibility in communication and working.

But false advertisement can no longer be proven since he took down his posts and changed his patreom campaign page immediately. Hiding tracks i think.
 
Update

a mod re upped his thread but closed it so nobody else can respond. (Divine Arms - A magical action-adventure hentai game)

Well it can be used as reference but can no longer be discussed.

Apparently we not supposed to create a new topic to discuss it. But how can other consumers remain truthfully updated?
 
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