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VN/TEXT RPG SIM Localization NTR Loli Shota Ryona [AliceSoftEnglish] Sengoku Rance


Triplebrc

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That's some salt ya got going on there guy. You have valid points to an extent, but damn if you don't come off like a jilted lover.
Well thats a few years of getting blue balled, guess it shows, been wanting to play Rance Quest since the day it came out, followed the old translation blogs steady progress for years, now theres a finished translation for several years and it is not getting released, they just sit on it not giving any statements about a release date. Instead they release a translation for a game that already had one for over a decade, and at the same time they try to hype that thing up like the best shit since sliced bread and actually think anyone would be stupid enough to pay that kind of money for it, like the world has been praying to the gods for Sengoku Rance to "finally" get a translation, give me a break.

Whether the new translation is better or worse because it basically just puts many japanese words into Romaji instead of actually translating them is up for debate and ultimately a matter of personal taste. I think it is worse, but I can see purists thinking this is an improvement, I however would not enjoy having to remember more japanese words than necessary for such a game, the game is challenging enough as it is and I have not been deep enough into old japanese series like fire emblem to know these words by heart. What is not up for debate is that them asking for that kind of price, thinking what they just released is actually comparable to a new release, and delaying the release of games people actually want, is pretty retarded.

How lucky of you, Ranmanu doesn't have a scene IN SR.
Well, not a full scene, but theres an event for her. Think you have to improve your relationship with Katsui for it. Pretty ironic Ranmaru does not have a full scene considering the historic character behind it.
 

shinjai

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What is not up for debate is that them asking for that kind of price, thinking what they just released is actually comparable to a new release, and delaying the release of games people actually want, is pretty retarded.
Let's see, although as you say the release was more than ten years ago, the price then was 8500 JPY which works out to about $80 USD. And the current price on the Alicesoft download site for the japanese version is 2500 JPY right now. MangaGamer are selling it for $34.95 USD. Sounds pretty fucking reasonable to me and hardly new release full price for a release by a game company as opposed to a doujin circle/studio. And let's face it, among all the people who were introduced to Rance through Sengoku Rance translation back then, how few bought a copy? I sure didn't but I bought the mangagamer release less than 8 hrs after it was available.
 

BigJohnny

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and delaying the release of games people actually want
People actually wanted SR so I don't know what you're chattin. As for the price, it's much lower than any newest AAA garbage you'd find, has much more content and replayability than them and doesn't suffer from any dlc/season pass bs.
 
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stashar

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I have not been deep enough into old japanese series like fire emblem
Neither Ikusa nor Total War Shogun 2 are Japanese titles. Ikusa is an American board game (1986: Milton Bradley), while Total War Shogun 2 is made by a British company. Both use the words "Ashigaru" and revolve around them as a key in-game mechanic. The examples I used in my post were American, British, and Fire Emblem (Nintendo == Japan). As a sum total, I believe them to be representative of the general English-speaking board game / video game culture.

With regards to the one actual Japanese game I chose (Fire Emblem), Nintendo of America is one of the premier translators in the video game market. I would expect that NoA has a better idea of what is, and what isn't, appropriate to translate.

My point is: the American wargaming community prefers to use historically accurate words like Ashigaru and Samurai. This was true in 1986 (When Ikusa was first released as "Shogun". Later re-released as Swords and Samurai and finally as Ikusa), 2000 (When Total War Shogun was released), and 2016 (Fire Emblem: Birthright). Feel free to browse through the American board-game Ikusa if you don't believe me:
 
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noman

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I wonder if the old SpoilerAL cheat table would still work on the translated SR.
 

Triplebrc

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Let's see, although as you say the release was more than ten years ago, the price then was 8500 JPY which works out to about $80 USD. And the current price on the Alicesoft download site for the japanese version is 2500 JPY right now. MangaGamer are selling it for $34.95 USD. Sounds pretty fucking reasonable to me and hardly new release full price for a release by a game company as opposed to a doujin circle/studio. And let's face it, among all the people who were introduced to Rance through Sengoku Rance translation back then, how few bought a copy? I sure didn't but I bought the mangagamer release less than 8 hrs after it was available.
Of course the price was higher at release, it was release day and the game was brand new with a dedicated fanbase that wanted more after Kichikuou Rance saved the series from dying and Rance 6 blew peoples minds with the new style and game length. Even so 80$ is stupidly high for an eroge, even if it is widely regarded as one of the best. For Mangagamer, 35$ is full price, only prices they have that are higher are for bundles, most of their releases are translated older games and considering this is a niche genre and in no way comparable to actual games in terms of cost and creating effort, the comparison with mainstream games is misguided. 35$ is a lot for such a game, even a new eroge would have to be pretty good to warrant that price, but this is not a new one, it is 10+ years old and the other translation has also been free for many years, so how exactly is that a realistic asking price in your mind?
Most people in the west didn't buy a copy back then, I surely didn't because I was still a minor at that time, but guess what I and thousands of others got to play the entire game translated anyway. Theres no reason for any of us to replay it now with a newer, harder to understand translation that heavily changes moments that have reached iconic status for many players, making for a overall less exciting experience for some, and you would have to pay for it on top. Waste of time and ressources to release SR before the newer ones people haven't played and would actually be willing to pay for. I mean you can spend your money however you want, but that sure was a stupid purchase if you ask me.

People actually wanted SR so I don't know what you're chattin. As for the price, it's much lower than any newest AAA garbage you'd find, has much more content and replayability than them and doesn't suffer from any dlc/season pass bs.
Once again, you can't compare eroge that are massively lower cost and effort than normal games with triple A games. Sengoku Rance is amazing, but it has ancient artwork, no character animations or animated scenes, very basic chibi attack animations, no voice acting and the gameplay while being fun and challenging is still very simplistic, this was a cheap game to make. You could make 50 Sengoku Rance like games with the money required to make one Triple A game, probably more, so why do you even compare them? Developers like Minwa can even throw out their eroge games for 1-5$ and still profit off of it because they are cheap to make, if you think 35$ is a reasonable price for a cheap 10+ year old game then you are the kind of customer I would like to have as any business, totally clueless, easy to rip off and thankful for it.

Also, who asked for this? I have seen a lot of people in the blog constantly asking for Rance Quest, for Rance IX, for Rance VI before it was finally released, for other Alicesoft games, even the old ones like Daiakuji, there were game journalists covering the severe outrage when Arunaru and Maria told the people follwing them that they wouldn't release their finished translations like before but would rather team up with Mangagamer, prolonging the big releases people wanted for several years at least, which did end up happening. All these are new games people want, but yeah I am sure you are right and the highest demand was on Sengoku Rance, a game 9/10 Alicesoft fans already played because it was the game that made the company popular in the west to begin with. Give me a break, if you think people would rather pay for something they already experienced 100% for free than pay for something new and exciting that they have been waiting for several years by now, then sorry but you are delusional.

I wonder if the old SpoilerAL cheat table would still work on the translated SR.
Can't imagine that no one has tested this yet in some corner. Feels kinda needless though, saves with a full gallery are easy to find all over the internet if you just want the scenes, and if you want to breeze through the gameplay then there are guides showing you how to do it without cheats easily. The game is not actually challenging if you know the ins and outs, the first playthrough is hard because the game explains as little as possible, letting you figure things out by yourself and giving some more difficult circumstances like the bigger Takeda, but once you read which upgrades for characters are the most powerful and in what order to attack enemies, this game is insanely easy, with new game bonusses and easier scenario basically turning godmode on.
 

Ericridge

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Guys, don't worry about Triplebrc too much. Some people is just cheapskates that won't pay up no matter what. He believes 35 bucks is too high for an eroge. That's what he believes in. For the amount of content that Sengoku Rance gives, 35 dollars is incredible. It has more content than so called Triple AAA games these days. And triple AAA games doesn't even have bare tiddies.

Me? Well I'm happy to slap down the dough and buy the game on day 1. All because I want to encourage Alicesoft to keep on bringing their games to the west. I deeply thirst for their next rance games and daiteikoku as well. I honestly can't wait at this point. I'm dying from anticipation. And i remember that Daiteikoku had the ability to add custom commanders to the game, it was a feature that I could never take advantage of it because the eroge isn't fully translated :( Senhime can into spaceship I go.

What he forgets is that, alicesoft is basically going, is westerners still interested in our eroges? They buy? Good Keep on bringing out our eroges. Its a two way street. Then maybe someday, we can too have bunch of eushally eroges here. I only got to play kamidori alchemist one, i want to play the next ones.
 
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stashar

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Once again, you can't compare eroge that are massively lower cost and effort than normal games with triple A games.
Basic business advice.

* Gross Margin = (Price of Game - COGS) x Number of sold copies
* Net Profit = Gross Margin - Fixed Costs

COGS == cost of goods sold. This is the cost of keeping a webserver and the amount of bandwidth per download. Its not quite zero, but its almost ignorable. The problem with video games is that they have high fixed costs: a decent programmer is $100,000 / year, while senior programmers make $200,000 / year+ (especially when you consider taxes and so forth). Modelers, artists, level designers, these all cost $50,000+ per person / year. Voice actors, contractors, marketing, etc. etc. These are all fixed costs.

So where's the problem? Hentai Games have much lower # of sold copies, which means the price needs to be higher to compete.

AAA titles can afford to have high fixed costs because they sell a lot of copies. Indie titles and Hentai-games do not sell many copies, so they will never be as good of a "value". You aren't going to get the same level of 3d art, rock-star programmers making highly optimized code, or special effects like a AAA game will deliver.

Instead, indie games or H-titles give something that no AAA title can give: catering to a niche. Only AliceSoft, and maybe a few other companies, can deliver a good H-game experience. And Sengoku Rance is easily one of the best. If this isn't good enough for you, then don't buy! Its not a big deal and its totally understandable. But anyone who wants to support this field should understand the economics of the situation.
 
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BigJohnny

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Once again, you can't compare eroge that are massively lower cost and effort than normal games with triple A games
I sure as fuck can and no one can stop me.
SR brought me much enjoyment, AAA games brought me none to very little enjoyment. It's that simple and everyone on their own decides if something is worth their money.
The answer to the "is a game that I already put dozens of hours into and liked pretty much all of it worth it?" question isn't that complex.
 

Triplebrc

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Guys, don't worry about Triplebrc too much. Some people is just cheapskates that won't pay up no matter what. He believes 35 bucks is too high for an eroge. That's what he believes in. For the amount of content that Sengoku Rance gives, 35 dollars is incredible. It has more content than so called Triple AAA games these days. And triple AAA games doesn't even have bare tiddies.

What he forgets is that, alicesoft is basically going, is westerners still interested in our eroges? They buy? Good Keep on bringing out our eroges. Its a two way street. Then maybe someday, we can too have bunch of eushally eroges here. I only got to play kamidori alchemist one, i want to play the next ones.
I don't generally rule out to fork up 35 bucks for an eroge, but usually it should not be that high. I have seen long ass eroge games go for as little as 5$, most range between 10 and 20, I might pay 35-40 for huge eroge like Rance X, or big Eushully games like Madou Koukaku if that ever ends up being translated, but only if they are somewhat new and I haven't played them before. I say it again, SR is 10+ years old and it shows, the standards keep rising and the longer a game is out the cheaper it gets, even huge masterpiece Triple A games like The Witcher 3 are often on sale, it is on sale for 10-15$ often with all dlc included, because it has been out for years. Alicesoft prices of like 80$ is definitely something I would never pay for an eroge, I don't even pay that for a Triple A game.

If you are worried about the signal sent to Alicesoft then the decision to release SR should piss you off, because due to aforementioned reasons of the game being ancient and the other translation being free and easily available, the number of sells are likely to be lower than Rance 6 for example, sending a bad message because paying 35 for that is just not a smart thing to do.

So where's the problem? Hentai Games have much lower # of sold copies, which means the price needs to be higher to compete.

AAA titles can afford to have high fixed costs because they sell a lot of copies. Indie titles and Hentai-games do not sell many copies, so they will never be as good of a "value". You aren't going to get the same level of 3d art, rock-star programmers making highly optimized code, or special effects like a AAA game will deliver.
The costs are so much lower that it should not even be worth comparing them, even if people do it anyway in both directions. Indie games that are often done by 2-10 people as a side activity or hobby project can go on sale for 5-10$ and still make a killing, many eroge just need a few cheap assets and the rest is often provided by free game engines bypassing all the expensive programming work, no animations or VA keeps it even cheaper, art costs can be down to nearly zero if someone makes his cgs himself or a new artists just wants his name out there. The customer base is not as small for Alicesoft as it is for other Eroge too, their games are longer but their costs are still very low compared to even mid grade mainstream games. You think a mid tier game wouldn't be laughed out of the building for delivering the number of features Alicesoft does for Sengoku Rance and ask for 35$? If you are in that price range people start to compare you to other games in that range, which is an unfair comparison because normal games costing 35$ usually had millions of production cost and therefore much more value and features, but of course people want value for their money and if they do not know Sengoku Rance, all they see is a visual novel with basic gameplay, old art, no animations worth mentioning and not even voice acting included.

If they included voice acting, I actually would have bought the thing because it would have been SOMETHING new, instead they released a game they already got their sales from 10+ years ago with zero new features and the cost of translation put onto Mangagamer, not even recognizing that most people played the thing translated long ago, someone buying this now gets zero value out of it. They want to cash in twice without doing anything because by now even they understand that there is a western market interested, thats just not the way to go about it, either translate something people haven't played so they experience something new, or improve upon the old stuff people already know, basic business.

I sure as fuck can and no one can stop me.
SR brought me much enjoyment, AAA games brought me none to very little enjoyment. It's that simple and everyone on their own decides if something is worth their money.
The answer to the "is a game that I already put dozens of hours into and liked pretty much all of it worth it?" question isn't that complex.
Yeah you can, but you kinda make yourself look bad doing it because it is not a sensible thing to do. Your choice in AAA games must be really crappy then, I instantly agree that most of the industry is going downhill fast, but in the last 10 years there have been many high quality AAA games that you could sink hundreds of hours into, some of them are 10-20$ or even less on sale. Of course you can try to convince yourself that 35$ for something you have already seen for free years ago is worth it for you, hell I could burn a 50$ bill and inhale the smoke of it and argue that this gave me more pleasure than any game currently on the market could, but from a rational standpoint this is simply the lower value thing to do with your money, you get something less valuable out of it plain and simple, even if you end up having more fun with it.

I just think they should have put SR together in a bundle with the next game, my main point of complaining is that releasing SR, slowly as they did too, is halting the progression of actually getting to see something new. People like me who know the translators for many years now have been waiting so freaking long for the good new stuff, what Arunaru and Maria actually were allowed to release from Alicesoft since joining Mangagamer is pitiful compared to the speed they used to release, at this rate we might wait 6-7 more years until all Rance games are released. This kind of thing is slowing it down even further by re-releasing stuff people have already seen, the price being too high for that is only a minor complaint in comparison, I would actually pay that price for Rance Quest because I haven't played that one yet, it has more features and I have been waiting for it for so long, fuck it having actual much lower value than any normal 35$ game, I would make that work for me, but I can't with SR because my standards simply aren't that low, you can't re-sell me stuff I already have.
 

shinjai

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Ok, so you are an impatient, self centred cheapskate who is more willing to write hundreds of words attacking the pricing of eroges and level of intelligence of proper fans of Alicesoft who actually support the company rather than forking out the equivalent of, at most, 3-4 hours of honest work for a game that has already provided you dozens, if not over a hundred, hours of entertainment.
I can understand being impatient about the newer Rance games translations being unavailable, but ultimately Alicesoft is a company that produces eroge and found the prices that they could sell their games at so that their employees can make a living, show profits to their parent company or shareholders and continue exising to produce more games to continue the stories they are telling.
Sure, the story of Rance may be over now (in Japan at least), but the prices they set for the older games in their online store are what they feel are right so that any new players who weren't old enough to be interested back then will buy the older games so that they know where the story of Rance came from in order to better enjoy the newer games.
You complain about being resold stuff you already have and them cashing in twice, but you admitted that you didn't pay for it in the first place, beyond what money your parent/s paid in having an internet connection for that particular month more than a decade ago. And packaging 2 of the games that were released about 2 years apart and where one of them is known as one of the shortest Rance games (Rance 5D for shortness and Rance 6) makes sense which is what they did for $35. Packaging together the next 2, which were released 5 years apart (Sengoku and Quest) and are both good for dozens of hours to do all the routes doesn't make sense to me and would have been at least $70.
The sheer gall of you to try and draw comparisons between the work and money that goes into Alicesoft's games and the huge numbers of shovelware on DLsite programmed in RPGMaker and other low cost engines is appalling. You may congratulate yourself for being a spend thrift and all the more power to you for being good at holding onto your money. But don't sit there and throw shit about excessive pricing of eroge to try and justify your whining about not being able to play the newer Rance games in english because the translation you would have downloaded for free and most likely applied to a ripped copy of the game you got off a torrent isn't available now because Mangagamer are releasing the games in order at a rate that is sustainable for their business.

Edit: To my future self looking back, jumping to assumptions is stupid, don't get myself overly invested in arguments over differing perspectives which other people are free to have, anything I write on the internet is forever, don't be surprised that rudeness will almost always be answered by rudeness and don't be so easily triggered on the internet by people I don't know.
 
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Triplebrc

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I had a longer reply done for that absolutely embarrassing respone of yours, but I will send it to you per pm as this is increasingly less on topic for the actual game a tiny number of few first time players might actually want to discuss. This thing will not lead anywhere, I doubt anyone would be able to convince me that releasing an unimproved SR for full price instead of literally any other Alicesoft game was somehow a good idea, because it simply wasn't, and I can't seem to make people realize that not everything Alicesoft does is pure gold, fanboys are hard to convince I guess, but hey I tried. Anyone interested in replying to me anyway and is free to do it per pm, I don't refuse to discuss with anyone no matter how different the views or how stupid the replies may be, but lets not make this thread any harder to follow than it already is.
 

BigJohnny

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Going back to the game, leaving the spergy stuff behind, I have a save with 190 points if anyone's interested. You can spend them on various bonuses to make your game easier/more varied.
 

shinjai

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I wonder just how much untranslated and unseen in the west side materials there are that do a little more fleshing out of the characters that were introduced in Sengoku Rance? I'd love to see it. All I've seen is the translation of the epilogue on the Alicesoft wiki with Kouhime and a bunch of other characters having tea together. To recruit all the characters in that epilogue is a mostly westward focused game if I'm not mistaken.
 

OmegaZero

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I do agree that they should have done something new for the game, rebalancing at the very least. Make archers and musketeers less useless, nerf Omachi, maybe nerf cavalry too, etc.
 

noman

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I do agree that they should have done something new for the game, rebalancing at the very least. Make archers and musketeers less useless, nerf Omachi, maybe nerf cavalry too, etc.
If they did that some other folks will get mad that the game is not true to the original. Can't please everyone.
 

doomulol

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i want to see all the ntr events can someone list those?...,... im bored being netori guy, (10hrs+)
 

BigJohnny

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I do agree that they should have done something new for the game, rebalancing at the very least. Make archers and musketeers less useless, nerf Omachi, maybe nerf cavalry too, etc.
No, their only job was to translate the game and make it accessible to westerners, why would they alter the gameplay?
 

OmegaZero

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No, their only job was to translate the game and make it accessible to westerners, why would they alter the gameplay?
They = Alicesoft, not Mangagamer.
I read somewhere that Alicesoft did alter English Rance 6 a small bit, so they could simply do the same this time.
 
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