Games Discussion Thread

[super_slicer]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Eh, it's kind of murky water but generally accepted that a game referred to only as 'RPG' includes a turn-based combat system. And that prefixes such as 'action' are used to denote the difference from the norm for 'RPG'.

Which reminds me, I'd like to take another crack at explaining why a class system just isn't right for a single-player game.

Most mechanics in RPGs and their sister genres are spawned from the classic table-top game Dungeons and Dragons, an inherently social form of entertainment (I guess you could play by yourself...?). The class system of D&D was designed with this in mind, it offered the player a way to define their role in the party and as their experience increased, made them more proficient at that role. It also imposed limits on the group, sure a party of fighters is gonna mow down enemies, but they come upon a locked metal door or chest and they're screwed. So this created a role for someone who didn't want their character to be as combat focused and so on.

With only one character (sure you can have a companion, but they're worthless as you can't dictate their actions 90% of the time) a class system not only forces the player to interact with the world in a rigid and pre-defined way, but also bars them access to many different aspects of the game on any given playthrough. Want to run through a dungeon slaughtering mobs? Better not have chosen to play as a rogue! Want to sneak past that giant enemy instead of fighting it? Too bad you picked warrior! Want your cleric to pick that lock? Not happening buck-o.

What positive would there be to limiting the player's freedom in this manner? You claim replayability, but it's skin-deep at best. You're taking on the same tasks and playing through the same story, maybe with some superficial differences (Hail paladin s!/your kind is welcome here rogue s!).

 

[B00marrows]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Eh, it's kind of murky water but generally accepted that a game referred to only as 'RPG' includes a turn-based combat system. And that prefixes such as 'action' are used to denote the difference from the norm for 'RPG'.

Which reminds me, I'd like to take another crack at explaining why a class system just isn't right for a single-player game.

Most mechanics in RPGs and their sister genres are spawned from the classic table-top game Dungeons and Dragons, an inherently social form of entertainment (I guess you could play by yourself...?). The class system of D&D was designed with this in mind, it offered the player a way to define their role in the party and as their experience increased, made them more proficient at that role. It also imposed limits on the group, sure a party of fighters is gonna mow down enemies, but they come upon a locked metal door or chest and they're screwed. So this created a role for someone who didn't want their character to be as combat focused and so on.

With only one character (sure you can have a companion, but they're worthless as you can't dictate their actions 90% of the time) a class system not only forces the player to interact with the world in a rigid and pre-defined way, but also bars them access to many different aspects of the game on any given playthrough. Want to run through a dungeon slaughtering mobs? Better not have chosen to play as a rogue! Want to sneak past that giant enemy instead of fighting it? Too bad you picked warrior! Want your cleric to pick that lock? Not happening buck-o.

What positive would there be to limiting the player's freedom in this manner? You claim replayability, but it's skin-deep at best. You're taking on the same tasks and playing through the same story, maybe with some superficial differences (Hail paladin s!/your kind is welcome here rogue s!).

A class system should influence how the game is played, rather than "you should have played X to do this this way" its "you are playing Y so play this like Y"

I find having multiple playthoughs works best in an RPG as you get to see and feel the world in these different ways as you are playing differently with each character.
A rouge would be pickpockieting and sneaking through dungeons. While a warrior would not.
You get to experience a sitiation in multiple ways.

You go to different guilds, interact with different people and do different quests get different loot.

Any barring of content due to a classs system is probably logical.
A warrior wouldent know how to unlock that magically sealed door and probably shouldent.

 

[super_slicer]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

A class system should influence how the game is played, rather than "you should have played X to do this this way" its "you are playing Y so play this like Y"

I think your missing the whole point, while restating it. Basically freedom of choice = good, stuck conforming to an archetype = sucky.

I find having multiple playthoughs works best in an RPG as you get to see and feel the world in these different ways as you are playing differently with each character.
A rouge would be pickpockieting and sneaking through dungeons. While a warrior would not.
You get to experience a sitiation in multiple ways.

You go to different guilds, interact with different people and do different quests get different loot.

So it seems what you ACTUALLY want is to have a different storyline along with different mechanics for each class. Effectively having them make multiple games for the purchase price of one... seems kinda greedy.

Any barring of content due to a classs system is probably logical.
A warrior wouldent know how to unlock that magically sealed door and probably shouldent.

Bullshit! Grug took the special sorcerer pre-k intro to unlocking all things magical when he was a child! It was only in his late teens that his musculature developed enough for him to swing swords around like a boss, still he never forgot "Righty unlocky, lefty kaboom".

 

[B00marrows]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I think your missing the whole point, while restating it. Basically freedom of choice = good, stuck conforming to an archetype = sucky.

I guess it comes down to what you come to expect.
You like the "i can do ANYTHING, no matter how illogical it is" mentality sklyrim has, where i think that notion kills immersion and limits a bunch of mechanics to a point of making them mundane.
They had to simplify all gameplay mechanics to allow for you to be able to do "everything" to a point where it feels like you are doing nothing.
Go anywhere, do anything! But dont actually try... theres nothing there.

BUT in the older games a class was just a starting point. You could always branch out in the end.

So it seems what you ACTUALLY want is to have a different storyline along with different mechanics for each class. Effectively having them make multiple games for the purchase price of one... seems kinda greedy.

You wouldent need a different main story for each class. What im saying is guilds and quests linked to your class and what you can do with that class.

Bullshit! Grug took the special sorcerer pre-k intro to unlocking all things magical when he was a child! It was only in his late teens that his musculature developed enough for him to swing swords around like a boss, still he never forgot "Righty unlocky, lefty kaboom".

HAHAHAHAHA!

Ooo i found a good video that describes the "depth" issue i have.

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[Hentaispider]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Eh, it's kind of murky water but generally accepted that a game referred to only as 'RPG' includes a turn-based combat system. And that prefixes such as 'action' are used to denote the difference from the norm for 'RPG'.

Which reminds me, I'd like to take another crack at explaining why a class system just isn't right for a single-player game.

Most mechanics in RPGs and their sister genres are spawned from the classic table-top game Dungeons and Dragons, an inherently social form of entertainment (I guess you could play by yourself...?). The class system of D&D was designed with this in mind, it offered the player a way to define their role in the party and as their experience increased, made them more proficient at that role. It also imposed limits on the group, sure a party of fighters is gonna mow down enemies, but they come upon a locked metal door or chest and they're screwed. So this created a role for someone who didn't want their character to be as combat focused and so on.

With only one character (sure you can have a companion, but they're worthless as you can't dictate their actions 90% of the time) a class system not only forces the player to interact with the world in a rigid and pre-defined way, but also bars them access to many different aspects of the game on any given playthrough. Want to run through a dungeon slaughtering mobs? Better not have chosen to play as a rogue! Want to sneak past that giant enemy instead of fighting it? Too bad you picked warrior! Want your cleric to pick that lock? Not happening buck-o.

What positive would there be to limiting the player's freedom in this manner? You claim replayability, but it's skin-deep at best. You're taking on the same tasks and playing through the same story, maybe with some superficial differences (Hail paladin s!/your kind is welcome here rogue s!).

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. First, not being able to do everything isn't necessarily a bad thing - classes or no, in most games you end up not being able to do everything anyway, because if you try to spread out your resources among all the different things, you end up not being good at anything unless you spend inordinate time grinding for XP(assuming such a thing is even possible in the game). Classes merely emphasize certain options and give you a set of tools that should be sufficient to complete the game. Secondly, you're assuming that classes equal niche protection, which most certainly does not have to be the case, especially in single-player games. Morrowind is a good example of this. Want a cleric who can pick locks? You can do it. You just (almost certainly)won't be as good at it as a dedicated rogue-type, and you won't able to level up solely by picking locks.

 

[super_slicer]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I can't agree with that at all, I don't see any real increase in entertainment or enjoyability in my experience being spawned by limiting the way I can choose to address a situation.

It's not about being able to 'do anything', but being able to choose how I do what I can.


Haha, smartass response: Dovahkiin (holy poop, I spelt that right on the first go) IS a class, and it progresses as if it were all other classes, gaining their abilities in place of it's own.

 

[XSI]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

More review
Rainbow 6 Siege, pretty good. Not normally my kind of game but this one is pretty fun to play a few hours every now and then
Now with pictures, at the Only Correct Opinion

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And regularly on Steam reviews

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Spoiler

Rainbow 6 Siege Review
At first glance, Rainbow Six Siege appears to be an action packed shooter in which you clear out all them terrorists and then go home to be celebrated as a highest rank master shooter master after mowing down hundreds. In fact, however, the opposite is true, it is a game where you have to carefully locate the opponent and then take them out - preferably before they see you, and going in guns blazing is a great way to get yourself shot.

However, don't think of it as a simulator, or you will end up disappointed. Much of it looks like it may be, but it is still undeniably a game, and it plays like one. And of course, as it is a Ubisoft title, you will need Uplay.

Now that I am 35 hours into said game, I think I know enough to write a review, though I still suck at actually playing. I don't think that will change any time soon, but even then it is entertaining. Much of R6 Siege is about understanding the maps and predicting your opponents, after all, if you can kill with just a single good shot then you want to take the shot before your opponents do. That said, there is a surprising amount of planning and tactics involved, with almost every direction a possible way to assault an objective.

Much of the level architecture is destructible. Walls, floors and furniture are all things that may not actually protect you from bullets, depending on what they are made of, and the best players are able to pinpoint locations of their opponents purely on the sound they make by just moving around. There are a lot of possibilities, and I've yet to find two rounds that played out the same, even the ones where I was new and just hid in a corner in the objective room with my gun aimed at a doorway all turned out different.

Of course, this sounds very well designed, but I don't believe it was intentionally done that way. The reason for that are the noob traps in the game, most notable of these being the tutorial telling you to breach a window with a charge and jump inside under the cover of that charge. If you somehow aren't dead the second you place the charge, thumping at the window, you will be dead from the people who are now aiming their guns at the window you just very clearly blew open. I mean, I suppose you can breach a window and jump in, yes that is very heroic looking and action filled. But it's a very bad idea in practice. The tutorials teach you the controls and that's about it. Attempting to use what it teaches you against players is a good way to die in loud but ultimately ineffective manner.

But then you can just ask someone to explain things. From my time playing I can say that the majority of players are friendly, and willing to help out. Many will understand if you don't know something or just suck, though there are a few who will scream at you in heavily accented, high-pitched English giving you conflicting orders to go both left and right at the same time before calling a kickvote at you because you're not doing what they wanted. Of course, this is a small minority in every online game, and they are easy enough to ignore with the knowledge that they are worse than you are. Even if you're as bad as I am, there is always someone worse. And they tend to be very vocal.

Games are 5v5 in PvP, both ranked and casual modes, 5 player team PvE, and solo PvE. I can't say much about the PvE aspect("Terrorist hunt"), as the bots are essentially just target practice and mostly good for learning the map. That said, it isn't bad, just not a challenge and very different from multiplayer.
There is plenty of variation with a fair amount of maps and lots of operators (classes, essentially) you can pick and unlock, with a customization system for your guns that seems to be mainly a preference thing, and a cosmetics system to go with it that is mostly very bright and obvious skins that I personally don't really enjoy the look of. Even then there is a lot of choice, a lot of options, and only a few options that are flat out bad.

Overall, Rainbow 6 Siege is a bit expensive, but if you can catch it on sale or have watched enough videos to know that you will like it then it is worth the buy. With a high skill ceiling, large amounts of variation and different mechanics from most other known FPS games makes it a worthwhile investment of both your time and your money.

 

[Tit Dang]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Is there any fans of The Banner Saga here? I passed the game again not so long ago and thought about text in this game. Despite it is short, it's very artistic. I don't like mountains of graphomania as the Tyranny turned out to be. I'm sure some games must learn from The Banner Saga how to present their characters and plot using not so huge descriptions.

 

[dragoon93041]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I had some hopes for Tyranny but I just ran out of enthusiasm before it ran out of content. That didn't happen with Banner Saga, though. I've played it and enjoyed it and enjoyed the sequel. Really interested in seeing how it ends.

 

[Stuffie]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Listening to nice music and downloading a bunch of huge mods for Skyrim right now (time to see what the "Special Edition" really is), so I feel like typing a bit more.

Anyone here ever heard of the indie strategy-RPG-survival game named "Thea: The Awakening"?

Basically, the world - a fantasy one based on Slavic mythology - has fallen into darkness, with most of mankind dying or turning into monsters. After hundreds of years the darkness, though still very present, finally begins to fade, and one of the old Gods and their few surviving followers begin their adventure in the world of Thea.

You play as one of eight Gods, of which six have to be unlocked by playing the game, with each God having their own strengths and experience bar, which means you can level every God up by playing the game and thus unlocking more traits of the chosen God.
You control one, and only one, village and the few surviving followers. You must set up expeditions, equipped with proper gear and supplies (food, fuel for campfires) to explore the surroundings, gather resources, encounter strange creatures and mystic events, and basically do everything to survive.

The world is pretty much "Civilization" with tiles and resources, on which you move your expeditions around. By researching, you unlock more resources, crafting recipes and town buildings. Events are presented via artwork and (spoken) text, with different choices to pick depending on your followers, their skills, sometimes even on the God you chose. Combat is handled in a card game-like manner, which is my least favorite, as every character in "Thea: The Awakening" has their own set of skills and traits, which are very plentiful and pretty much steamrolled me. So I always auto-resolve combat, which usually works out okay, but probably not as good as if you do the fighting yourself.

Screenshots:

Spoiler

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and/or look it up on GoG or Steam's store. It's a pretty cool and unique game, and the two DLCs that were released - one with additional game content, the other one offering two-player coop mode - were given to players for free. And there's a demo available (something that's sadly no longer a thing for most games), so you can give it a shot and see if you like it.

 

[XSI]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Ah yes, Thea.
Great game, I got a review out of it saying as much


I would definitely recommend it

 

[XSI]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

And speaking of reviews, Fallen London. Pretty good, a bit slow, maybe a bit repetitive.

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Since I started playing it and thought I'd review the thing.

Spoiler

Fallen London Review
Fallen London is a browser game, with a focus on short stories and interesting snippets of information, set in an alternate universe in which London has been taken by a mysterious force and brought down to the cavernous world of the Neath inside Earth.

If that didn't turn you away, good. It's actually quite interesting. You start your adventure in New London, having come down from the 19th century world, and from there on, a multitude of stories are available to you. Without spoiling them, I will say that they come in both short and long, in obvious and not-so-obvious, and in many possibly surprising ways. And all of them are made so that you can explore the world of Fallen London while you're at it, learning about them and getting into the mindset that is the Neath and all its secrets.

And what secrets they are. A beautifully crafted, well-written world for you to explore, every time finding something new or interesting out there or uncovering curious tales. And if you don't like the stories you've gone through then you are often free to switch sides, change directions or move along to other tales entirely. There is certainly no shortage of places and tales to explore, and you can just ignore most of these to do your own things. Do mind that while some things won't change, some choices have actual consequence.

The way it works seems to be very well made and designed for modern life. You start with and can store up to 20 actions, with one refreshing every 10 minutes. This means that you will have a full action bar a little over 3 hours after you've spend them all. Which, for the most common work and school times means that you can play once in the morning before you go, then at lunch, and once more at your coffee break or when you get home. There are suitably short stories that you can spend a few minutes on them, and then spend the rest of your actions on some repeatable storylets if you are running low on time, and longer stories chained together that you can spend days trying to get to the bottom of. The design appears to be full of this, and is incredibly well made to fit in to modern life without issue.

Progression is solid, with four stats for you to raise over time. The stats are "watchful", "dangerous", "shadowy" and "persuasive", and they will grow both with success and with failure, more so if you try difficult challenges. You might at times feel like you are missing something, repeating the same things over and over, but there is always your own home to go to, with options to grow your statistics much more quickly through other players. And that brings us to player interaction. Sadly quite limited, but with enough ways to send things to each other (not your normal items though, that would be too easy), and to speak with others that you do not feel isolated. It is not an entirely single player game, but certainly has you doing things on your own for most of it.

In the end, Fallen London is a long-lasting, but surprisingly casual game that doesn't take up much of your time. It is well worth trying, and even without spending any money you can enjoy the great stories and explore its secrets. It is well worth the time to give it a try, and certainly worth the effort. As far as persistent browser games go, Fallen London may very well be the best I've played.

I originally intended to review Urban Dead as well and make it a browsergame combination review, but Urban Dead aged like milk and it's terribly slow, so I stuck to just FL
And, my profile if anyone wants to send me something on there, or wants me to send them something.

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[dragoon93041]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

So, I played the Tides of Numera beta. Decided to get acquainted with the system before the full game came out. It was good but I was a little tired of the spelling errors and glitches before I finished. Hopefully those will be fixed.

Also, two shout outs to Planescape Torment:
1. One of your previous names was Adahn in Numera. That actually made me laugh out loud.
2. You meet "O" again, a mysterious figure with strange powers. He's not important to the plot or anything but it was nice to see him again. And since he's trans-dimensional, this can count as a canon version and not just a random Easter Egg.

Also, and this was probably unintentional but it was still funny, the loot and money reminded me of the Modron Maze.

 

[super_slicer]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

And speaking of reviews, Fallen London.

I played the roguelike from the same company, (fuck me I can't remember the name, sunken sea or something) ahh to zail the zee! Wonderfully done lovercraftian story work, unfortunately it was (possibly still is) unfinished so alot of roguelike pain and suffering and you get to a bunch of dead ends.

 

[dragoon93041]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Sunless Sea (and there is a sequel coming out; you get to fly planes)

 

[Stuffie]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Sunless Sea (and there is a sequel coming out; you get to fly planes)

:O Tell us more about the sequel, please?

 

[dragoon93041]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Here:

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[Stuffie]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Here:

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Thank you.

 

[MuffinCrumb]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

I've been itching to play an MMO lately.

Tree of Savior has been on my mind despite the all the reviews pointing toward some bad times with bots and bugs. Had oodles of fun with eh closed and open beta only to see it turn bad before I got to play the official release (I've been under a rock for 6 months) C'est la vie.

Otherwise, thoughts of Peria Chronicles and lusting after a new PC that can make Blade and Soul look pretty.

 

[XSI]

Re: Games Discussion Thread

Review: Space Beast Terror Fright

The name sounds like a meme, but the gameplay is incredibly solid. It might take a bit to flesh out fully, but it is already at a point where it is well worth full price. Assuming you can find people to play it with

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(With pictures!)

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Supposed to get published on a review site as well, but I didn't hear back from them yet.

Spoiler

Space Beast Terror Fright is a fast paced FPS game about infiltrating an unnamed spacecraft or station, retrieving data and then detonating the reactor and getting out before something kills you. A game I would call a hidden gem just in need of some slight polishing and expanding. SBTF is amazing potential on a very solid base game, action packed and at times frantic, yet giving you enough time to think your moves through and plan ahead.

It plays with 1-4 player teams, yet things are set up so that a single person can still survive and do the job if they're really good. Many situations will need teamwork to get through safely, or balls of steel to get through alone. I have found only a few seemingly unwinnable situations myself, and a few of those turned out not to be unwinnable after trying. Often you will feel like you are winning against the odds, and some situations may look very easy but surprise you with how hard they can be. And when you lose, you only lose a few upgrades - all of them optional but still very useful to have, and you can try again the next round.

The maps are varied in size, but at present still mostly empty rooms and hallways with a few consoles lining them, and they do look mostly like it's a map for a game still, without furniture. That said, they are generated when you play, and this generation will almost always be fair, challenging, and giving you interesting situations. You can even have everything set randomly - if you're going in blind, you truly will not know whether you're out for a milk run or for the hardest round you've ever encountered. And if that is not your thing, you can customize the map generation extensively and use pre-set seeds to get a map you like, though at present you still can not create a custom map.

Graphics are simple, but they work. At times they will even look pretty good in the right light and right angle. Sound design is quite well done, with every sound being fitting and atmospheric. In general, the mood is one of action and shooting, heroic space marines in big armour against a tide of aliens. Until the power goes out. Standing there, watching a dark hallway as your motion tracker bleeps at you in increasingly rapid tempo while a distance counts down from 10m, stressful? Maybe. But it is the good kind of stress, and certainly a great experience.

The overall design of the game, the way it uses light and dark and how you are both easily able to shoot down the aliens at range, yet utterly helpless if they get close, is excellent. I've not seen many games that can pull it off, but SBTF manages to do so perfectly, and it manages to do it consistently.

Whether you play it with friends, or you're playing it with random people online, SBTF will provide a worthwhile experience every single round. A few quick rounds can quickly string together into hours as you try to survive the endless waves of aliens while completing your objectives, and not a minute of it will be wasted time.

If that did not convince you, a single player demo is available at

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