I'm already sick of the +18 games

[Peachaboo Zanzo]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I agree, as soon as you're making enough money to live off it (which is kind of hard to tell with all the taxes and such), you should put all your effort into it. At the same time, it takes months of hard work to really complete even a simple game if you are working alone.

Someone gave me bad rep for my post earlier

2 things. Game makers have almost always been paid by contract, not by hour, so that comparison won't help you and b) it's IMPOSSIBLE for people to find out who is worth the support, because the market is always full of no one with built trust

a) Okay. Then it's 200$ for months of work. Is that any better? What's the point in this comment? My comparison was more about how a freelancer like ourselves earns money. It's usually by the hour or by piece and I was trying to illustrate that from a financial standpoint, we're investing a lot of time that we could spend earning money in something that's - for now - hardly paid at all. Sure, it's fun, but it's also work and it won't go anywhere if you don't commit.
b) Then wait till they release something you like or even longer to see how often they release and consider supporting then. And stop as soon as you're not satisfied. Or just don't support at all.

No one has to support anything and everyone has the right to offer his content on his own (great or shitty alike) conditions. It's as simple as that.

Of course it would be great if there were only great developers and supporters out there.

And yeah, I know it sucks to see a cool game idea die or never really getting anywhere. The only thing you can do is hope that someday, someone with actual motivation will do something similar.

 

[Porkbunny]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I agree, as soon as you're making enough money to live off it (which is kind of hard to tell with all the taxes and such), you should put all your effort into it. At the same time, it takes months of hard work to really complete even a simple game if you are working alone.

Someone gave me bad rep for my post earlier


a) Okay. Then it's 200$ for months of work. Is that any better? What's the point in this comment? My comparison was more about how a freelancer like ourselves earns money. It's usually by the hour or by piece and I was trying to illustrate that from a financial standpoint, we're investing a lot of time that we could spend earning money in something that's - for now - hardly paid at all. Sure, it's fun, but it's also work and it won't go anywhere if you don't commit.
b) Then wait till they release something you like or even longer to see how often they release and consider supporting then. And stop as soon as you're not satisfied. Or just don't support at all.

No one has to support anything and everyone has the right to offer his content on his own (great or shitty alike) conditions. It's as simple as that.

Of course it would be great if there were only great developers and supporters out there.

And yeah, I know it sucks to see a cool game idea die or never really getting anywhere. The only thing you can do is hope that someday, someone with actual motivation will do something similar.

Developers don't have to make their games alone, as I have experienced they can hire freelancers from sites like fiverr, upwork when they have a decent income, but the thing is some developers try to be greedy by trying to do everything alone, and thereby taking more time to release the games. this is actually the standard of any industry, you start at the bottom of the ladder, and when you are getting a big demand to your games, then you have to hire more people to increase the supply, but it doesn't happen in this adult game industry, most of the game developers try to do everything alone no matter how much money they make. The only thing I think most of them do is increasing the graphics and the number of slides, but increasing the graphics isn't that hard work (it's not like developers do everything from scratch, they buy assets from daz), all you have to do is buying a good graphics card which is obviously possible when the income is good, plus it's an one time thing. when the graphics card is good, it also decrease the rendering time, and thus the amount of slides to be produced gets high too. So at the end they virtually do nothing more, but their income is increasing gradually. This is the unfortunate truth in this adult game industry, but most of the people don't care about that, they keep throwing money at even abandoned games. for instance I have seen plenty of abandoned patreon games that still getting a good income.

 

[Peachaboo Zanzo]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I agree.

 

[Changer]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

Developers don't have to make their games alone, as I have experienced they can hire freelancers from sites like fiverr, upwork when they have a decent income, but the thing is some developers try to be greedy by trying to do everything alone, and thereby taking more time to release the games.

It probably isn't greed. It's fear that is responsible for that.

Here's the hard truth. Other people on the internet are unreliable. Before you have the money to pay for reliable, established professionals, your choices are either "do it all yourself" or "Form a small team of equally passionate indies who just want to make something together".

I've done both myself, and while I have made dozens of small games on my own, I have not been able to finish even one "Passion project" collaboration. No matter what role I played on said team.

I've had a coder who turned out to like solving programming problems, but then couldn't focus on carrying through to finishing a game after the "fun" parts were solved.

I've had an artist who stole assets, and claimed to have made them. I eventually caught on because he sent me an asset that I happened to recognize.

I've had writers who will talk for hours about their ideas, but could not actually take those ideas and turn them into scripts.

and I've had so. So. SOOOOOOO MANY College students who dropped out of projects because they "Didn't realize college would be so difficult".

And this doesn't just happen with free help either; people who work on the low end of the pay spectrum also tend to suffer from these problems too. In many cases, you get what you pay for, so if you don't have the money to hire a professional, you have to put up with amateurish behavior and work ethic.

If someone has reached a point where they are making a game that is actually a hit, they've probably experienced a fair number of failed team ups and come to believe that the only person they can rely on not to let them down is themselves. It may not even occur to them that with their increased income, they can afford actual professionals, or they could be afraid that even higher paid people might turn out the same way and consider it too high a risk.

 

[combi11]

Yeah i feel you all, then what?

June of 2017 and still happenning the same thing

I no longer feel like playing any game made by this type of developers, because I know that in the end it will be a displeasure, that's what they are going to get, to the drought, people slowly I hope it becomes smarter And do not pay this type of trawler, to this day I'm only interested in 2 games that continue to develop them every month, that at least is worth, for others, I want and I can not ...

People who make excuses about the technical staff to develop the games better to shut up because to make a demo and you need that staff, what happens next is that they want easy money and the game will do as the demo, will continue to develop it With the same and the money for whores

And with this I finish this series of comments


I prefer a game that is crap-decent and every day I see that they are doing things, a game that is incredibly epic and do not end it

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

Yeah i feel you all, then what?

June of 2017 and still happenning the same thing

I no longer feel like playing any game made by this type of developers, because I know that in the end it will be a displeasure, that's what they are going to get, to the drought, people slowly I hope it becomes smarter And do not pay this type of trawler, to this day I'm only interested in 2 games that continue to develop them every month, that at least is worth, for others, I want and I can not ...

People who make excuses about the technical staff to develop the games better to shut up because to make a demo and you need that staff, what happens next is that they want easy money and the game will do as the demo, will continue to develop it With the same and the money for whores

And with this I finish this series of comments


I prefer a game that is crap-decent and every day I see that they are doing things, a game that is incredibly epic and do not end it

Wow, see how that looks in one post instead of five? It's so neat

 

[Changer]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

People who make excuses about the technical staff to develop the games better to shut up because to make a demo and you need that staff, what happens next is that they want easy money and the game will do as the demo, will continue to develop it With the same and the money for whores

This is horribly disrespectful, dishonest, and ignorant. First of all, your experience playing games does not qualify you to tell anyone how easy or difficult it is to make games.

Compared to making a final product, putting together a demo is easy. You don't even have to make the game functional, you just have to make it seem functional. You can even get away with using placeholder assets if your concept is solid.

To imply that game developers just blow all their patreon money on whores is downright offensive. Just because they aren't developing as quickly as you'd like? Do you have any idea how much it costs to make a game quickly?

Every single H-Scene costs money. The more images you commission in a short period of time, the more money you have to pay in a short period of time. If you only have 300 dollars in your budget to pay for art each month, guess what? You can only get maybe 2-4 drawings done per month depending on the prices of the artists you are working with.

Since H-Scenes are vital to an H-Game, it's an inherent part of development that the faster you go, the more it costs. Since most people working on these games have a tight budget they can only go so fast regardless of if they would like to go faster.

We are not the AAA industry. We do not all just have millions of dollars just laying around. Most of us have to struggle to pay our own bills and then with what money is left over pay for what we need to make progress on our games.

Just because I am able to maintain a monthly update cycle does not mean that everyone can do it. As someone who does make a game, and who does keep to a monthly update cycle I have personal experience here. I can tell you that it is not something that just any random person working a full time job can do as a hobby. It takes a lot of work, a lot of money, and a lot of time to be able to keep a schedule like this.

This has gotten pretty long so TL;DR Don't tell game developers to shut up because you think you know their job better than they do.

 

[LuckyStars]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I've done both myself, and while I have made dozens of small games on my own, I have not been able to finish even one "Passion project" collaboration. No matter what role I played on said team.

I've had a coder who turned out to like solving programming problems, but then couldn't focus on carrying through to finishing a game after the "fun" parts were solved.

I've had an artist who stole assets, and claimed to have made them. I eventually caught on because he sent me an asset that I happened to recognize.

I've had writers who will talk for hours about their ideas, but could not actually take those ideas and turn them into scripts.

and I've had so. So. SOOOOOOO MANY College students who dropped out of projects because they "Didn't realize college would be so difficult".

A- PLOUGHING -MEN!

These stories are soooooo true that it need to pin on the forum. I understand, paying for something that is in development for years is fishy. But you can back out right?

There's no need to blame all devs, I respect indie devs especially the dedicated ones, not the passionate one. Since passion tend to burn away and then quit the project making all devs look bad.

Edit: I came here in search for hentai games and now I'm in a convo about game devs, this forum has everything.

 

[Vaman]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

These are some good points that are being raised. I definitely agree that there's a lot of dev's that go into the game-making business thinking that it's easy, but then again if you're a programmer I expect you to know from your experience with programming that it's a pain in the ass. I expect the same from artists.

One other thing I dislike is when people REFUSE to hire more people to work on their team when they're earning a lot of money and I know someone who does this, although I won't mention who. They say reasons like "lack of trust" and blablabla. People who give you money also have to sacrifice a lack of trust so why don't you and hire more people instead of being such an obvious con artist?

 

[LuckyStars]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

One other thing I dislike is when people REFUSE to hire more people to work on their team when they're earning a lot of money and I know someone who does this, although I won't mention who. They say reasons like "lack of trust" and blablabla.

I think this is the actual topic that we can all agree on. Again, some dev, not all are just as you've describe, earning well over $20k (yes that's 20 000 a month). Promising, voice actors, a dedicated programmer, this and that. But what they really lack is project management.

 

[Changer]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I think this is the actual topic that we can all agree on. Again, some dev, not all are just as you've describe, earning well over $20k (yes that's 20 000 a month). Promising, voice actors, a dedicated programmer, this and that. But what they really lack is project management.

Geez, I could only dream of making that much. xD At that level, a dev can definitely afford to hire professionals to join the project.

 

[Beatru]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I've tried making h games before. But it just requires way too much time. I have the skill too. I'm a software Engineer for a Fortune 500 company. I could make some awesome games with Angular, but it's the lack of time that stops me. I can work from home but if I worked on stuff like this when I should be working, I'd probably get nothing done in my real job.

I suggest the OP attempt to make their own game. When you spend that much time working on something, you almost have to ask for some kind of payment.

 

[LanceRPG]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I can't believe I have read all the words ,

Basiclly it's what game makers do, I think the will of earning more money is
no wrong by any means.
Some game makers survive by it . Many of them don't finish their games,
that's normal. Hgame making is like shooting a movie, it's small ,
but ....story , character design, map painting, event logic, BGM choice, none of them could be skipped.
However , I do agree that , no matter how simple or rough， a finished game is always better than a unfinished one.

 

[XSI]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I disagree
A finished bad game will not be as good as an unfinished good game.
Of course, if a game is truly bad then the creator will notice it is and stop working on it instead of wasting his time making something terrible, so there won't be many finished bad games

 

[Peachaboo Zanzo]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

Speaking of which, there's one essential truth:

The hardest part about making a game is finishing it.

Getting all of the essential mechanics to work and visualizing the basics is one thing, but when a game starts to look finished, there's always SO MUCH to do before you can let anyone play it. Everything a user may or may not do needs to be taken care of in advance, code needs to be debugged, optimized and cleaned up and the bigger everything gets, the more complex it becomes to add in new systems. And then there's polishing. I'm always amazed how much times it takes to do those "few small things left". I'm not even talking about a functional balance both within a level and in the bigger picture of a whole game with xp, money, items and such..

I coded a small 2-level shooter prototype for my bachelor's degree. Worked my ass off for 3 months straight but still had to make cuts EVERYWHERE.

...Also yeah, project management!

 

[BawdyInkSlinger]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I'm developing a game and it's really good to hear things like this. It's weird how once you start developing a game, you lose perspective on what it's like to play it. This is really good for gaining empathy.

 

[sebo70]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I too get sometimes tired with unfinished games. To be completely honest, and I don't mean to be rude or anything, if the game is still unfinished, then don't post it. At least that's my opinion.

 

[combi11]

i only wanna say fuck you all don't get time to make a game but they allow donations, fck you all motherfuckers hipocrytes

All the fucking shit they take out for people who donate it I will download it for free to annoy these people, only 3 games deserve my money, the other free for free, free, and fuck these bastards

1. Dreams Of Desire
2. Big Brother
3. The Twist

all the others are bullshit


And maybe Superpowered

 

[GargantuaBlarg]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

Such is indie development. Just think of it as some guys working on some cool shit. Lots of people just do that for fun, but as it is now, in relation to maybe a decade or so, it's very easy to go on the internet and say 'hey check out this cool shit I'm working on.' If an audience likes it, then there's the precedent now that people can even give the author money, to as incentive, kinda like they're saying 'hey I like this, keep doing this.'

But while working on cool shit is fun, a lot of the time it ends up not being fun anymore, or another idea hits and people wanna work on that instead.

Basically the way I see it, people are doing indie development as normal, but it's a lot easier to share your project now, so people do that before a project can be considered 'finished'. Project lifetimes and the average progress a project makes before ending are the same - it's just that people are able to learn about, play, and involve their money in projects earlier in a project's lifecycle, so

Fuck I'm not really doing a good job of explaining my views concisely here.


The way I see it, when a personal project isn't really working out or you've gotten what you wanted out of a project, you just kinda stop the project. This is true for game development, regardless of whether it's a lewd game or not; however, people can share their project super easily, so if people get hype about it it's real easy to share and even monetize a project. To the developer, it's puzzle they're working on pretty much for fun, but to other people it's a product that isn't whole yet, so they get mad when the developer has 'solved' their puzzle and moved on, but the solution isn't what they expected or desired.


Whatever I'm bored now enjoy this stream of thought I guess.

 

[neon007]

Re: I'm already sick of the +18 games

I myself started making a game, I had a cool vision of a Mass Effect inspired game. In terms of having dialogue choices and different paths but also have it be very open and non-linear. All of this on RPG Maker MV

I never announced it though as I wanted to just see what I could do as it was my first project and it would all be text only as I do not yet possess any skills in graphical area.

But even that ended up being impossible to finish after a few months of working on it I just found it ate up a lot of time for very little reward (in terms of getting the game in the way I want it).

I may try again at some point but it would be from scratch as the end result of my months of work was just not at all what it should be or what I wanted it to be. The main issue is lack of time to be honest. If I had more time free I could do it much more properly and have it be the quality it should be.

So I don't think your attitude is right, it is very hard to make even simple projects (simple in my meaning of not having any h-scene artwork).

That being said, I don't think developers should take money if they can't finish the project. Such as patreon and such. Unless they outright state that you are paying for frequent content updates but no guarantee of a final finished build (likely what Inui will do, but we will see...)

I also notice games come in spurts, for some reason the summer months tend to be the slowest and least releases while other months you can suddenly have very many awesome releases (both English or Japanese). If you are finding yourself bored and looking for fun +18 games, do what I do. Browse DLsite selecting a tag you find most fun and see if any older games you haven't played. Can be quite a few hidden gems as there are just so many Japanese RPG games released on DLsite.