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XSI

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Re: In today's news...

Got this one linked just now

Russian plane lost and enters Israeli airspace by mistake
And not shot down, they just turned and went back after Russia already in advance reported to them that a plane would be near them.


This only a few days after this

Where Israel says it won't shoot Russians in their airspace, and that they'll coordinate if needed
 
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MrMe

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Re: In today's news...

Do you think the pilot gave the middle finger towards turkey as he did his part in this PR stunt?


Also on Fox:


/tldw - Dunkin Donuts employee dumbly insults DD's main customer base by scrawling Black Lives Matter on a cop's cup of coffee, an apology is asked for and none is given for five days, a famous (apparently) dancing traffic coordinator cop leads a protest in his off duty hours.
Employee gets transfered, cop gets fired - then he gets rehired by a different district.
 

super_slicer

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What? We let the NK have nukes? Or did we not know they had them? Either way, piss-poor plan there. Can we go after them next? I don't even like the fact that bigger, less batshit insane countries have nuclear warheads.
 

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Re: In today's news...

What? We let the NK have nukes? Or did we not know they had them? Either way, piss-poor plan there. Can we go after them next? I don't even like the fact that bigger, less batshit insane countries have nuclear warheads.
NK has had nukes for a long while, and they're supported by China. Two very good reasons to not pick a fight with them.
 
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freeko

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What? We let the NK have nukes? Or did we not know they had them? Either way, piss-poor plan there. Can we go after them next? I don't even like the fact that bigger, less batshit insane countries have nuclear warheads.
This is not Fallout. Once one nuclear missle gets launched you have a WarGames scenario where no one wins. Nuclear weapons are pretty much the ultimate bluff card. You will never see them used again but all the governments that can produce them need to if for no other reason than they can whip their dicks out and say they have them too.

In the height of the "cold war" USA and Russia had enough nukes to blow the entirety of the planet into a nuclear dead zone 2.5 times over. Yet no one was stupid enough to fire the first shot as it were. Even now as other countries catch up, they just realize having nuclear weapons means almost nothing.
 

Hopeyouguess62

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This is not Fallout. Once one nuclear missle gets launched you have a WarGames scenario where no one wins. Nuclear weapons are pretty much the ultimate bluff card. You will never see them used again but all the governments that can produce them need to if for no other reason than they can whip their dicks out and say they have them too.

In the height of the "cold war" USA and Russia had enough nukes to blow the entirety of the planet into a nuclear dead zone 2.5 times over. Yet no one was stupid enough to fire the first shot as it were. Even now as other countries catch up, they just realize having nuclear weapons means almost nothing.
You might be correct. On the other hand, I don't think it's prudent to claim, "you will never see them used again." Bear in mind that World War I, or the Great War as it was called at the time, was the result of carefully-crafted political alliances that were, in many cases, expertly-maintained by Otto von Bismarck, the "Iron Chancellor." When Von Bismarck was ultimately dismissed, the system slowly eroded. Eventually, a single assassination brought down the entire mess, resulting in a massive war that re-drew the political map of Europe and saw the rise of the Soviet Union. (Nationalism also played a part, but that's a whole different set of books. There are SO many books about World War I.)

It would be optimistic to believe that our leaders remember the lessons of the first World War, especially given the similarities in the current Nuclear Non-Proliferation regime. Over time, the number of states with nuclear weaponry is slowly increasing. Other states have nuclear backing to prevent them from needing to develop nuclear weaponry (for example, Japan and South Korea would likely have already developed nuclear weaponry for deterrence against North Korea and China, but are more-or-less covered under the US nuclear umbrella).

Another complication is when states openly declare situations in which they will launch nuclear attacks--many states with nuclear weapons have made declarations that their nuclear arsenal SHALL be used to defend their sovereignty. Historical evidence shows this to be an effective policy, as nobody invades a nuclear-armed state (many claim that Ukraine should never have surrendered their nuclear arsenal after the collapse of the Soviet Union, for this precise reason). But what happens when someone finally decides to test them on it? If the state fails to launch, they lose all credibility. If a nuclear-armed sponsor of a smaller state fails to protect them, they, too, lose credibility. Finally, with the ever-growing capabilities of terrorists, you have the possibility of nuclear arsenals that can launch without much fear of reprisal.

I'm oversimplifying, here, and I could go on for DAYS about this problem, so I'm going to cut it short here and sum up:

tl;dr The "bi-polar" situation with NATO and the Warsaw Pact was far more stable when you had the US President and the Soviet Premier as the only people who could authorize a nuclear launch. Now that we have more and more nuclear-armed countries, one could argue that the chances of a nuclear conflict have grown.

EDIT: Of course, we've got a significant advantage over our predecessors in the sixties--we know how much damage a nuclear war (and winter) can actually do, and no rational leader is under the illusion that one can "win" a nuclear conflict (as you pointed out). With that said, there are plenty of delusional people out there... and some of them are in charge of nuclear arsenals.
 
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super_slicer

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Actually, there is technology able to stop nuclear warheads from detonating, even if they are fired. So a country with enough resources to build a multitude of such devices in secrecy would remove that threat to themselves. After that, it just depends on how crazy the bastards in charge are. Don't kid yourself global thermonuclear war IS a possibility, though perhaps not an imminent one.

However my dislike stems not from the possibility, but the fact that we can't bully them into doing what we want (I'm not going to try and justify this by saying they're doing bad things, or immoral things, whether they are or not), and the more countries that gain the ability to stand up for themselves the further we get from a singular world government.
 

Hopeyouguess62

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Re: In today's news...

Actually, there is technology able to stop nuclear warheads from detonating, even if they are fired. So a country with enough resources to build a multitude of such devices in secrecy would remove that threat to themselves. After that, it just depends on how crazy the bastards in charge are. Don't kid yourself global thermonuclear war IS a possibility, though perhaps not an imminent one.

However my dislike stems not from the possibility, but the fact that we can't bully them into doing what we want (I'm not going to try and justify this by saying they're doing bad things, or immoral things, whether they are or not), and the more countries that gain the ability to stand up for themselves the further we get from a singular world government.
There's counter-measures, sure, but... well, all I can say is that it's a lot more complicated than you're making it sound. It's not something I'd want to rely upon, that's for damned sure. Even the idea of a small nuclear arsenal being used, like North Korea, scares the hell out of me.

As for bullying everyone into a singular world government, I think it's a horrible idea. I mean, if you manage to get a benevolent government over the world that is willing to put the people first, sure, that could be cool. But it's more likely that the world would be owned by Texaco. Or Gazprom. Or Microsoft. We have serious corruption problems even in the smaller states, and I think it would just get worse with global unification.

EDIT:

In happier news, there's now a campaign in Brazil called "Racismo Virtual, Consequencias Reais" (Virtual Racism, Real Consequences), in which near their homes. I think this is awesome and I hope it catches on globally--it would be awesome to , despite the supposed anonymity of the internet.

A Minnesota couple who used to be quite impoverished now had the means to . Kind of awesome when someone makes an effort to pay back society for helping them out in the first place.
 
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XSI

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Re: In today's news...

What? We let the NK have nukes? Or did we not know they had them? Either way, piss-poor plan there. Can we go after them next? I don't even like the fact that bigger, less batshit insane countries have nuclear warheads.
They claimed to have nukes for ages now and to have been actively making more of them, but pretty much all their tests either failed or were pretty much just underwhelming. (Though without a doubt still dangerous)

I distinctly remember during the time the west attacked Iraq over 'weapons of mass destruction', North Korea publicly stated they were testing their nukes on one of their mountains. Of course, they had China backing them and no oil, so it's not like anyone cared.

That said, they would only be able to hit Turkey if Russia allowed them to move those nukes through Russian territory, at which point it pretty much is the same as Russia doing the nuking as far as the geopolitics of it all goes

In happier news, there's now a campaign in Brazil called "Racismo Virtual, Consequencias Reais" (Virtual Racism, Real Consequences), in which near their homes. I think this is awesome and I hope it catches on globally--it would be awesome to , despite the supposed anonymity of the internet.
There's a few problems with this. Who decides what is racist? Who decides what is inappropriate? And won't this just mean that if the bar is set too low, it just creates a consensus in the neighbourhood? What if it's just a popular view in the area?
If it's someone well-spoken, good with words, and a very manipulative person. Won't he use those billboards to spread his message?
What about local businesses saying something just mildly controversial just to get a free ad?

Decent idea though. In other, more positive news than usual

Landlord to unemployed residents - "You don't have to pay rent this December, use the money for a great Christmas"
 
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freeko

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No government, at least in my experience, is for the people. Local governments send out their cronies dressed in fancy police uniforms to harass and fine. Of course they hide themselves behind the whole "protect and serve" crap as maybe one time out of fifty they do serve that purpose.

I would say that I am very likely both an atheist and an anarchist. The only person I believe in is myself. I do not need a government to tell me how to live, as I do just fine on my own. I do not need a religion to guide me either, but that is a different issue so I will leave that part of it alone for now. Government at its core has been corrupted and twisted from its initial purpose.

I get letters from the organized crime syndicate known as the IRS every year. They allege that I own taxes, and they attempt to take action against me every time. They have failed to do anything to me for the last 14 times they have tried. The simple fact is that as an american citizen you are under no obligation to pay taxes. I win every time by simply stating that if they can find the law on the books that says I am to pay taxes, then I will. A few hours of their circular logic being exposed later the case gets thrown out.

Why does that matter? It shows that even a corrupt government like the USA knows better than to launch a nuclear weapon. No matter where it is aimed it would set off a chain reaction that would destroy the world likely 4 times over? In my opinion nuclear weapons are still the ultimate dick stroking tool. Of course there are far more interesting ways to commit genocide that I can think of, but when it comes to biological warfare there is that unwritten rule that it is generally off the table anymore.

I really wonder what would happen if a modern day flashpoint were to deploy chemical weapons. Lets say for example the Palestinians instead of strapping explosives to their vests, strapped some chemical agent instead. How fast do you think the rest of the world would move to demolish the Palestinians? Who cares about their cause or why they fight, they used chemical weapons and need to be eradicated. That would be the consensus once the word spread.
 

Hopeyouguess62

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Re: In today's news...

There's a few problems with this. Who decides what is racist? Who decides what is inappropriate? And won't this just mean that if the bar is set too low, it just creates a consensus in the neighbourhood? What if it's just a popular view in the area?
If it's someone well-spoken, good with words, and a very manipulative person. Won't he use those billboards to spread his message?
What about local businesses saying something just mildly controversial just to get a free ad?

Decent idea though.
True. Any good idea has the potential for being used for evil and/or profit. It can also be taken too far--I found that fiasco with the Mozilla Firefox VP getting canned over his personal, private beliefs rather discouraging.

For those of you that don't remember...
There was a high-level corporate executive at Firefox who, several years prior, had given about $1000 to an anti-gay marriage organization (not much money for a high-level corporate executive). He made the donation as a private citizen and he never brought his conservative beliefs to work, but his contribution was reported to a dating site which made the knowledge VERY public. People started boycotting Firefox over the incident, and as a result the executive got fired. I fully support gay marriage, but getting this guy fired still felt wrong.
I agree that if someone is well-spoken (or well-written, in this case?), they're unlikely to have to resort to hateful language to make their point. In those cases, a different tact would clearly be needed.

Still, I think it's a good start at addressing the fact that people muck about the internet spewing forth horrible bullshit at people, things that they would NEVER say to a person's face. I doubt it's possible to hold ALL of them accountable, but making examples of a few might give others pause before writing offensively.
 

freeko

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They were no longer private beliefs when he made a public donation. Just think what would have happened were he not to have put his name on the donation and simply remained anonymous when making it.

I do not care to judge either side in the issue, but the power of remaining anonymous in situations like that where everyone is looking to use something against you..
 

Hopeyouguess62

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They were no longer private beliefs when he made a public donation. Just think what would have happened were he not to have put his name on the donation and simply remained anonymous when making it.

I do not care to judge either side in the issue, but the power of remaining anonymous in situations like that where everyone is looking to use something against you..
He absolutely could have hidden his beliefs, that's true. It probably would have saved his job. That's beside the point, though--people should be allowed to have dissenting opinions, as long as they're brought forward as part of the dialogue. He wasn't preaching hatred or intolerance, or carrying one of those ridiculous Westboro Baptist Church signs to picket a funeral. He didn't use derogatory slurs or try to deny anyone's humanity. Most importantly, he didn't leverage his position to further his beliefs.

I think that should be allowed, even for a corporate executive.
 

MrMe

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The double standards with anti-discrimination laws are pure utter bullshit.

If the person is capable of keeping their personal beliefs out of the work place then the work place should keep out of that person's beliefs.
 

freeko

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I think that should be allowed, even for a corporate executive.
That is where I believe you are wrong. Of course this is my opinion, and that was something that I had to watch out for when I was say the head adjudicator for Twin Galaxies. From personal experience something that I would ever say or do as it pertained to the site, no matter what it was would reflect on the site as a whole as well.

So if I said there should be speedruns for example, it was then taken out of context that Twin Galaxies wanted speedruns. Which was not any further from the truth as the rest of the decision making team did not want them.

Personal beliefs are moot when you are a corporate executive as people will only see the business side of things as that is what you are to the masses. When he said he supported gay marriage, by proxy he was saying that Firefox supported gay marriage. His actions will reflect back to the company's image like it or not. It is sadly the way of things.

I already said that I do not care to judge one side right or another wrong in this. I think if I were a company that did not want a shitstorm over what an employee did, I would have acted in a similar manner to what Firefox did with removing the issue.
 

XSI

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Re: In today's news...

Personal beliefs are moot when you are a corporate executive as people will only see the business side of things as that is what you are to the masses. When he said he supported gay marriage, by proxy he was saying that Firefox supported gay marriage. His actions will reflect back to the company's image like it or not. It is sadly the way of things.
That's reality, people don't seem to think of people as people. Rather, they think of them as their job title.
The ideal should be that they don't, and I agree with the ideal.

I know it's not how it happens, but it's how it should be

And in the news...Sigh

People being provacating idiots. Sending anonymous threats to themselves. Including bomb threats on a school
 

super_slicer

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Re: In today's news...

There's counter-measures, sure, but... well, all I can say is that it's a lot more complicated than you're making it sound. It's not something I'd want to rely upon, that's for damned sure. Even the idea of a small nuclear arsenal being used, like North Korea, scares the hell out of me.

As for bullying everyone into a singular world government, I think it's a horrible idea. I mean, if you manage to get a benevolent government over the world that is willing to put the people first, sure, that could be cool. But it's more likely that the world would be owned by Texaco. Or Gazprom. Or Microsoft. We have serious corruption problems even in the smaller states, and I think it would just get worse with global unification.
CIWS have come a long way in a short time, and TBH all you really have to do is blow up everything BUT the war-head before atmospheric re-entry to make an ICBM useless. Hell if you've got a sophisticated enough system it could scan the projectile, locate the detonator and disable it in some fashion (shoot it probably), leaving the weapon just a giant hunk of rocket propelled worthless.

A world ruled by corporations is exactly what I'd like to avoid. That would be as bad as going back to the days of aristocracy. But quite frankly humanity can't continue down the road it's on, we're going to run out of resources, our planet can only sustain so much life. We have to make it to the stars, and we can't do that with all this retarded shit going on between different nations.
 

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Re: In today's news...

It's still ongoing right now, but looks like someone shot up a development disabilities building.
 

Dragontear

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Re: In today's news...

Today, at 10PM, British Members of Parliament will decide whether to extend bombing of IS positions from Iraq and Afganistan to Syria.

Suffice to say, plenty of arguments on either side, logical, emotional and sometimes a tad misguided.
 

super_slicer

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It's still ongoing right now, but looks like someone shot up a development disabilities building.
*IF* they were as well equipped as the news says that's a very odd target. I mean, going after it in broad daylight they couldn't be there to steal anything, and why shoot up the place if you're after an individual? If you look at it from a terrorist attack angle, why not leave bombs or traps for first responders, why not continue your spree down the block, why start at a location with that few targets?

Too many unanswered questions at this point to make any judgements, it's still very strange though.
 
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