Linguistic oddity from translating.

[Throngled Dongle]

So after translating h-game dialogue on and off for awhile to figure out what's going on, I notice that certain recurring themes pop up alot.

One that has me particularly puzzled are the use of "Brother" and "Daughter".

Brother sees a lot of use in the pillow talk with the girl addressing the boy, and daughter sees more of a generic use as an identifier ex: mermaid girl is named mermaid daughter.

By some linguistic nuance, does "Daughter" more or less just mean "girl" in the way we use it, or is there some sort of cultural reference that makes use of the familial connotation?

Same with brother, is it supposed to invoke some familial/incest reference (literal or I guess "roleplay" in the case of two partners who can't possibly be related like human x slimegirl) or is it just slang?

I ask because I'm trying to put together some practice RPG-Maker H-games that mimic many of the old and new BF/GOR games and I'm trying to figure out just how much of Engrish to mimic. I admit I've kinda grown fond of the Japanese nuances - machine translated or otherwise.

Related: Has anyone else grown fond of bits and pieces of "raw translation" nuance rather than a strictly accurate English nuanced translation?

 

[Mephisto]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

From Japanese Wikipedia:
娘 is a word used to
1. describe one's daughter (biological and adopted/from different spouse)
2. a generic term for young women
3. used in reference to something born out of something else, that resembles the original. (Comes from translations from other languages such as english) Example: daughter language

Origin: 産す女
[I lack enough posts to link an URL. should be the first link if you google 娘とは though]

I think you're looking at a mix between the 2nd and 3rd definition there, with the 人魚娘 being in reference to a younger version of a 人魚, while at the same time also being the daughter of another 人魚. I'd say it sticks mainly to the 2nd definition, and "girl" feels like a more appropriate translation.

In reference to お兄ちゃん(and other variants), it's not exactly an incest thing, although it can be. It's essentially a pronoun referring to an older male under the age of like 30 that carries a high level of familiarity, that is pretty much universal among asian languages. I don't really have any memory of the term being used in "pillow talk" if the characters weren't related in some fashion (living together as a family if not blood-related). This word is a bit hard to define since it's kind of ambiguous.

 

[Throngled Dongle]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

Thank you for clarifying that. I agree that in English the word "daughter" doesn't feel as appropriate as the generic "girl".

As for brother, maybe its something that became common in certain sub-genres. I know it showed up a lot in the classic BF sets from way back, but even after picking up a commercial game that was heavy on the GoR many of the girls would refer to the protagonist as brother - despite there being no possible way for them to be connected.

You mentioned its a sign of "familiarity". That makes more sense. Given the subject matter you may have just met the girl/monstergirl/succubus but they're already willing to get pretty intimate. Using "Brother" kills two birds with one stone. It's better than "Hey you!" and it complements the already intimate tone of the naughty talk. Unless someone can recommend better, I just might use that.

 

[nnescio]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

The "daughter" you're seeing is most likely "musume", which can mean both daughter and girl. The former is the usual meaning in normal speech, which is why it's favored by machine translators.

It usually gets shortened to "musu" when referring to female anthropomorphized characters. Monmusu (Monster Girl), Kanmusu (Ship girl, from Kancolle), even Kenmusu (sword girl). Generally (in otaku-fandom) you can call any anthropomorphized object/monster (or even abstract concepts) an X-musu.

(Just don't do it in real life among normal Japanese, otherwise you get looked at funny.)

So yeah, if you're playing a monster girl game you'll see it being spit out as daughter every so often.

--

The "brother" you're seeing is probably "onii-chan" in the original. While it does mean (older) brother, it's also a catch-all term used by younger people for any older male (that are not old enough to be called "uncle") that they are familiar with, even if they don't share blood relations.

Another possibility is "nii-san", which also has the same meaning (with slightly different context, as it is less childish). It also happens to be a frequent term of address used by prostitutes or anyone trying to sound slutty or turn up the charm.

("Hey, hunk!")

Nii-san can also be used by gangster types or anyone trying to sound tough ("bro"). Aniki (which also means brother) is another equivalent, but rougher.

("Aniki, Aniki, Aniki to watashi!")

 

[chrisroxxx]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

What about using the term *older sister* how would you incorporate that into smut talk?

 

[handofdoz]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

お姉さん = Onēsan = older sister

黒穂病 = Kurohobyō = smut

just google it, also 9 month necro

 

[chrisroxxx]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

お姉さん = Onēsan = older sister

黒穂病 = Kurohobyō = smut

just google it, also 9 month necro

Did you actually read what I wrote? Doesn't matter no more, I started a discussion elsewhere and stated more clearly what I wanted to know.

Sorry for being that harsh I thought I would have made clear that I wanted to know about the implications of using older sister/sister older brother/brother when used in smutty japanese language. Meaning, is it meant to imply incest, or just cuteness, or is it maybe a token of respect calling someone older sister while in bed, somewhat like using the term 'senpai'. More like since this terminology is used alot more often in Japan there should be alot more different meanings to it than just brother or sister in english. I want to know all the possible implications so I can choose how to translate different smutty scenes...

 

[handofdoz]

Re: Linguistic oddity from translating.

Did you actually read what I wrote? Doesn't matter no more, I started a discussion elsewhere and stated more clearly what I wanted to know.

Sorry for being that harsh -snip-

don't worry about being harsh, im a jerk sometimes.