[Nutaku] Angelic Saga
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
..tiny things I notice: your attack animation while doing quests is based upon whomever is set as your favorite
lulzI got Kirito from my 50 win free ticket:
..tiny things I notice: your attack animation while doing quests is based upon whomever is set as your favorite
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Eab1990
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
In case people still had doubts about Fizzle's usefulness.
Opponent used Occult Obliteration on my Fizzle, which let Forsaken proc on his move. If he attacked my Miyabi, his Sylvie would've lost.
Of course, he decided to play it safe instead and attacked one of my facedowns instead, which was thankfully Emily. Because of that, I was able to suicide Marsha into Sylvie (was playing cautiously in case one of his traps was Banish), used Huan Lu to finish the job, then had Miyabi do a direct attack.
The turns leading up to that moment were pretty great too. He had two traps along with his own higher-leveled Miyabi, while I had Rosemary and Framboise in play. On my turn, I summoned Alice to remove one of his traps, then suicided Framboise on his other trap (also Forsaken) and had Rosemary finish her off.
THEN he plays Flame Rekindled, reviving his Miyabi, and taking out my Alice. I countered by stealth-playing my own Miyabi facedown and Fizzle, while he took out Rosemary next turn, who I left in attack mode and used her direct damage skill to goad him into focusing on her.
On the following turn, I played Marsha facedown (which led to the above play with Sylvie) and Decree on his Miyabi, which let my Miyabi take his out.
After I took out his Sylvie, he surrendered.
Overall, there was a LOT of back-and-forth plays that really could've ended in either favor. He had the stronger cards, but he focused a lot on buffing them with traps instead of strengthening his numbers, while I had enough of a variety of cards, effects, and spells/traps to overpower his Miyabi *twice*, and his Sylvie. It was a really great match all around. Wish I had a damn replay of it.
In case people still had doubts about Fizzle's usefulness.
Opponent used Occult Obliteration on my Fizzle, which let Forsaken proc on his move. If he attacked my Miyabi, his Sylvie would've lost.
Of course, he decided to play it safe instead and attacked one of my facedowns instead, which was thankfully Emily. Because of that, I was able to suicide Marsha into Sylvie (was playing cautiously in case one of his traps was Banish), used Huan Lu to finish the job, then had Miyabi do a direct attack.
The turns leading up to that moment were pretty great too. He had two traps along with his own higher-leveled Miyabi, while I had Rosemary and Framboise in play. On my turn, I summoned Alice to remove one of his traps, then suicided Framboise on his other trap (also Forsaken) and had Rosemary finish her off.
THEN he plays Flame Rekindled, reviving his Miyabi, and taking out my Alice. I countered by stealth-playing my own Miyabi facedown and Fizzle, while he took out Rosemary next turn, who I left in attack mode and used her direct damage skill to goad him into focusing on her.
On the following turn, I played Marsha facedown (which led to the above play with Sylvie) and Decree on his Miyabi, which let my Miyabi take his out.
After I took out his Sylvie, he surrendered.
Overall, there was a LOT of back-and-forth plays that really could've ended in either favor. He had the stronger cards, but he focused a lot on buffing them with traps instead of strengthening his numbers, while I had enough of a variety of cards, effects, and spells/traps to overpower his Miyabi *twice*, and his Sylvie. It was a really great match all around. Wish I had a damn replay of it.
freeko
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
Your opponent was probably not very good. Fizzle could again have been any actual useful card instead and it would not have mattered. The opponent had 5 cards in their hand to your none. All they needed to have was that one card that brings someone thats attacked back to full hp and you probably get rolled hard.
They did not. Instead they probably had a hand full of dead cards or just bad creatures that were not worth playing. Who knows, but the fizzle was still completely irrelevant as it could have been any other trap.
Your opponent was probably not very good. Fizzle could again have been any actual useful card instead and it would not have mattered. The opponent had 5 cards in their hand to your none. All they needed to have was that one card that brings someone thats attacked back to full hp and you probably get rolled hard.
They did not. Instead they probably had a hand full of dead cards or just bad creatures that were not worth playing. Who knows, but the fizzle was still completely irrelevant as it could have been any other trap.
dartred
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
No it could not have, because if you have 7 mana. You can't play invitation to hell and forsaken for example, but if you have 7 mana and you play 2 cards, fizzle and ITH, he will think you dropped a 4 cost with a 3 cost.
So what you're saying is. You would have fallen for fizzle since you wouldn't think it would have been a fizzle and XXX card.
No it could not have, because if you have 7 mana. You can't play invitation to hell and forsaken for example, but if you have 7 mana and you play 2 cards, fizzle and ITH, he will think you dropped a 4 cost with a 3 cost.
So what you're saying is. You would have fallen for fizzle since you wouldn't think it would have been a fizzle and XXX card.
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akoss
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
You need to bluff a trap with it by not using all your mana (against anyone paying attention). I'd rather use any 2-4 cost trap that does something instead.
*edit* I guess the above post is another way to screw with mana counts, but I'd still rather use Weaken.
You need to bluff a trap with it by not using all your mana (against anyone paying attention). I'd rather use any 2-4 cost trap that does something instead.
*edit* I guess the above post is another way to screw with mana counts, but I'd still rather use Weaken.
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freeko
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
In this game, I have a "make them show me" policy. They either have it or they do not have it. If they dont have it, I will profit. If they do have it, meh I just adjust and move on.
Then again in my deck right now the only way I have to deal with enemy traps is to run something into them. I really dont care if I use 4k of my life points to run into traps while I am establishing control of the game.
No different when I played the game that this pretty much is a copy of in yu-gi-oh. The stupid puzzle box I have for being the first world champion of that game is collecting dust somewhere in a storage bin.
In this game, I have a "make them show me" policy. They either have it or they do not have it. If they dont have it, I will profit. If they do have it, meh I just adjust and move on.
Then again in my deck right now the only way I have to deal with enemy traps is to run something into them. I really dont care if I use 4k of my life points to run into traps while I am establishing control of the game.
No different when I played the game that this pretty much is a copy of in yu-gi-oh. The stupid puzzle box I have for being the first world champion of that game is collecting dust somewhere in a storage bin.
Eab1990
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
He didn't play any monster aside from Miyabi (which I killed twice) and Sylvie. He likely was taking an all-spell/trap card approach to boost his strongest cards. It was actually pretty effective and kept me on the ropes for far longer than I anticipated. If I didn't have Decree, Marsha, and whatever else, I would've easily lost. "Not very good", my ass. A reckless player would've easily lost to this guy if he didn't account for every possible trap he put down.
And I played Fizzle on the same turn that I stealth-played Miyabi. I had two mana left to spare on that turn, which I used to activate Rosemary's direct damage skill (to both put pressure on him and goad him into attacking her and not my facedown). Couldn't have done that if I played Weaken.
I don't understand these arguments against Fizzle. Just because "there are better alternatives" doesn't mean a FREE bluff card doesn't have its uses.
His two traps were Never Give Up and Forsaken. Forsaken proc'd on my Marsha suicide, Never Give Up didn't because I forced his Sylvie into defense mode with Marsha.
He didn't play any monster aside from Miyabi (which I killed twice) and Sylvie. He likely was taking an all-spell/trap card approach to boost his strongest cards. It was actually pretty effective and kept me on the ropes for far longer than I anticipated. If I didn't have Decree, Marsha, and whatever else, I would've easily lost. "Not very good", my ass. A reckless player would've easily lost to this guy if he didn't account for every possible trap he put down.
And I played Fizzle on the same turn that I stealth-played Miyabi. I had two mana left to spare on that turn, which I used to activate Rosemary's direct damage skill (to both put pressure on him and goad him into attacking her and not my facedown). Couldn't have done that if I played Weaken.
I don't understand these arguments against Fizzle. Just because "there are better alternatives" doesn't mean a FREE bluff card doesn't have its uses.
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
sigh.. I'm on the brink of just walking away from this game..
out of 20 opponents today, only FOUR -weren't- in the top 100.. which I'm decidedly.. not.
I understand that this is probably because of a small pool of available (as in actively looking for a match) players at any given time, and that I probably AM getting matched with the closest available opponent, but it's still super frustrating. Losing 80% of your matches is NOT fun.
sigh.. I'm on the brink of just walking away from this game..
out of 20 opponents today, only FOUR -weren't- in the top 100.. which I'm decidedly.. not.
I understand that this is probably because of a small pool of available (as in actively looking for a match) players at any given time, and that I probably AM getting matched with the closest available opponent, but it's still super frustrating. Losing 80% of your matches is NOT fun.
Health_is_Wealth
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
Maybe 80% of the top 100 don't have anything special, just level'ed cards. I've been in the top 30s for some time now I still lose quite a lot, even to people with 1140 something RP, some whales also don't have that high of an RP. Sometimes I wonder how I manage to stay around this rank. You can also wait for the next event and get a lot of SSR exp cards, that should shrink the gap.
Maybe 80% of the top 100 don't have anything special, just level'ed cards. I've been in the top 30s for some time now I still lose quite a lot, even to people with 1140 something RP, some whales also don't have that high of an RP. Sometimes I wonder how I manage to stay around this rank. You can also wait for the next event and get a lot of SSR exp cards, that should shrink the gap.
Emerald_Gladiator
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
I do agree Fizzle has its uses, but as I've said before, it is ridiculously situational. The ONE thing it is is a free bluff, and you'd only really need it when you're desperate to bluff after throwing out a monster and have no more mana (and that's assuming your opponent ISN'T counting mana, because s/he could easily identify Fizzle if you expend all of your mana in one or two FU monsters).
Even then, your opponent would have to lose the mind-game and play passively for the bluff to work, (s/he assuming you threw down a Weaken, meaning that his/her monster's attack is BARELY above yours, otherwise they'd just attack through the perceived Weaken). And even in your own case, I don't think your argument for using Rosemary's skill is very strong anyway, meaning if your Fizzle were a Weaken instead, you would've had enough mana to throw it down too.
So I'm not bashing on Fizzle, because it isn't useless (just as a broken clock still works twice a day), but I AM saying that you can feel free to throw out some effective Fizzle examples, yet Weaken would usually be a better and simpler card (as it fills Fizzle's use even as a low-cost bluff in most cases anyway).
Ehhh, I'm with Freeko here.
I do agree Fizzle has its uses, but as I've said before, it is ridiculously situational. The ONE thing it is is a free bluff, and you'd only really need it when you're desperate to bluff after throwing out a monster and have no more mana (and that's assuming your opponent ISN'T counting mana, because s/he could easily identify Fizzle if you expend all of your mana in one or two FU monsters).
Even then, your opponent would have to lose the mind-game and play passively for the bluff to work, (s/he assuming you threw down a Weaken, meaning that his/her monster's attack is BARELY above yours, otherwise they'd just attack through the perceived Weaken). And even in your own case, I don't think your argument for using Rosemary's skill is very strong anyway, meaning if your Fizzle were a Weaken instead, you would've had enough mana to throw it down too.
So I'm not bashing on Fizzle, because it isn't useless (just as a broken clock still works twice a day), but I AM saying that you can feel free to throw out some effective Fizzle examples, yet Weaken would usually be a better and simpler card (as it fills Fizzle's use even as a low-cost bluff in most cases anyway).
Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
I need to like, write on my monitor in big bold letters: DO NOT PUT A CARD IN DEFENSIVE MODE WHEN ALL FOR ONE IS OUT.
I swear I keep forgetting, and every time I do is the time the opponent decides to attack the face down card instead of the face up one.
I need to like, write on my monitor in big bold letters: DO NOT PUT A CARD IN DEFENSIVE MODE WHEN ALL FOR ONE IS OUT.
I swear I keep forgetting, and every time I do is the time the opponent decides to attack the face down card instead of the face up one.
Emerald_Gladiator
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
Ah geez, I just suicided a card for no reason at all other than I had another card in defense, saw her number and thought that was her attack. I swear, little tiny mistakes like that--even one crappy card difference early game--cost entire games.
That and having max-costed Natalies drop on you. It seems like I lose most games because I have the exact same cards as everyone, but they're underleveled by 1-2 against the opponent's stuff.
Ah geez, I just suicided a card for no reason at all other than I had another card in defense, saw her number and thought that was her attack. I swear, little tiny mistakes like that--even one crappy card difference early game--cost entire games.
That and having max-costed Natalies drop on you. It seems like I lose most games because I have the exact same cards as everyone, but they're underleveled by 1-2 against the opponent's stuff.
Eab1990
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
At any rate, yes, Fizzle works better if you're bluffing a more expensive card like Invitation to Hell, which would make the person more wary about playing a powerful non-2001+ character first. Bluffing to throw off mana counts only works A) for bluffing on that turn, since your cards inevitably get revealed and someone paying attention could easily work the calculations out and narrow down the possibilities of what hasn't been revealed yet, and B) assuming your opponent is even counting mana to begin with.
But that's not how it worked here, seeing as my opponent was someone who poured all his resources into characters that weren't affected by Invitation... OR Weaken, for that matter. Between his constant traps and Sylvie/Miyabi's inherent power increase skills, the Weakens would only have slowed him down, so a strength-in-numbers strategy worked better here.
Though this is all after my bluff anyway. What does matter is that placing Fizzle was what allowed me to stealth Miyabi for me to counter his own Miyabi with next turn.
My other options weren't favorable.
-Summon Miyabi facedown only. Practically a death sentence for her, since even with traps placed down prior to this turn, none of them could've been Banish at the time, so there's nothing dissuading him from getting rid of an unknown. Using Rosemary's skill could have shifted his focus, but it may not have been enough.
-Summon Miyabi faceup. Even worse, since now he knows what the bigger threat actually is.
-Summon Miyabi facedown and a hypothetical Weaken, switch Rosemary to defense due to no mana. Looks suspicious and gives my opponent even more reason to go on the offensive, since a smart person knows to eliminate unknowns if it looks safe to do so. Rosemary can be safely ignored in defense mode, since there's no way for her to overpower a Miyabi, short of a Book of Awakening+ which I obviously don't have. Few traps could've stopped his Miyabi at the time (never drew my Banish), and barely any cards have 2600+ defense. It's in his better interests to attack my facedown Miyabi here.
In other words, I could've been stopped dead if I didn't bluff and make it look like I was placing a desperate, cheaper-than-it-looks facedown, while also making it more appealing to attack the face-up card Rosemary instead. Btw, do note that I had a Prepare for Battle and Never Give Up in place before the Fizzle, so Fizzle didn't activate when he attacked Rosemary.
Now, as for what's pictured? Sure, you could argue that Fizzle didn't matter, because he ended up doing exactly what I mentioned, playing smart by eliminating my facedowns instead of the face-up Miyabi, knowing that the right trap card would've lost him his Sylvie. But since he not only destroyed my Fizzle, he attacked my weakest card, it still gave me the opportunity to counterattack. Of course, if he attacked my Marsha instead, he would've sunk even faster, given that I also had enough mana for Trick or Treat to activate.
Uh, no, I couldn't. 14 mana that turn - 12 mana for Miyabi - 1 mana for Rosemary's Black Magic (it's not free, unlike Framboise's Firestorm). Meaning 1 mana left, so no Weaken, only Fizzle.
At any rate, yes, Fizzle works better if you're bluffing a more expensive card like Invitation to Hell, which would make the person more wary about playing a powerful non-2001+ character first. Bluffing to throw off mana counts only works A) for bluffing on that turn, since your cards inevitably get revealed and someone paying attention could easily work the calculations out and narrow down the possibilities of what hasn't been revealed yet, and B) assuming your opponent is even counting mana to begin with.
But that's not how it worked here, seeing as my opponent was someone who poured all his resources into characters that weren't affected by Invitation... OR Weaken, for that matter. Between his constant traps and Sylvie/Miyabi's inherent power increase skills, the Weakens would only have slowed him down, so a strength-in-numbers strategy worked better here.
Though this is all after my bluff anyway. What does matter is that placing Fizzle was what allowed me to stealth Miyabi for me to counter his own Miyabi with next turn.
My other options weren't favorable.
-Summon Miyabi facedown only. Practically a death sentence for her, since even with traps placed down prior to this turn, none of them could've been Banish at the time, so there's nothing dissuading him from getting rid of an unknown. Using Rosemary's skill could have shifted his focus, but it may not have been enough.
-Summon Miyabi faceup. Even worse, since now he knows what the bigger threat actually is.
-Summon Miyabi facedown and a hypothetical Weaken, switch Rosemary to defense due to no mana. Looks suspicious and gives my opponent even more reason to go on the offensive, since a smart person knows to eliminate unknowns if it looks safe to do so. Rosemary can be safely ignored in defense mode, since there's no way for her to overpower a Miyabi, short of a Book of Awakening+ which I obviously don't have. Few traps could've stopped his Miyabi at the time (never drew my Banish), and barely any cards have 2600+ defense. It's in his better interests to attack my facedown Miyabi here.
In other words, I could've been stopped dead if I didn't bluff and make it look like I was placing a desperate, cheaper-than-it-looks facedown, while also making it more appealing to attack the face-up card Rosemary instead. Btw, do note that I had a Prepare for Battle and Never Give Up in place before the Fizzle, so Fizzle didn't activate when he attacked Rosemary.
Now, as for what's pictured? Sure, you could argue that Fizzle didn't matter, because he ended up doing exactly what I mentioned, playing smart by eliminating my facedowns instead of the face-up Miyabi, knowing that the right trap card would've lost him his Sylvie. But since he not only destroyed my Fizzle, he attacked my weakest card, it still gave me the opportunity to counterattack. Of course, if he attacked my Marsha instead, he would've sunk even faster, given that I also had enough mana for Trick or Treat to activate.
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Emerald_Gladiator
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
You're right, my mistake. Off by a single mana point, lol.
Still, the overcomplexity in which you're arguing really just proves my point: Fizzle is extremely situational. Again, I'm not discounting its use in such a hypothetical environment. But the thing is that your argument is based on a very specific field setup as well as quite a few assumptions that your opponent would do what he did (or didn't/wouldn't do). Sure, mind games are great and whatnot, but I'm still not seeing your point as to why Fizzle was the ONLY card that could've done what it did, even in that particular scenario. (Feel free to attribute my skepticism to the complexity of the field and the scenario you're building too, because I didn't take the entire to grasp everything, honestly).
What I'm arguing is that Weaken is far more practical and has much better utility than Fizzle. Maybe nobody has the genius you do or that nobody has the card itself, but in the tourney, I've yet to run into an opponent who has dropped a Fizzle on me (let alone one who actually used it successfully too). Weaken however is still somewhat played. I'm only saying that, in most cases, most people would much rather have a Weaken than a Fizzle, and if you want to compare more common situations, Weaken will undoubtedly be more effective in those than Fizzle.
You're right, my mistake. Off by a single mana point, lol.
Still, the overcomplexity in which you're arguing really just proves my point: Fizzle is extremely situational. Again, I'm not discounting its use in such a hypothetical environment. But the thing is that your argument is based on a very specific field setup as well as quite a few assumptions that your opponent would do what he did (or didn't/wouldn't do). Sure, mind games are great and whatnot, but I'm still not seeing your point as to why Fizzle was the ONLY card that could've done what it did, even in that particular scenario. (Feel free to attribute my skepticism to the complexity of the field and the scenario you're building too, because I didn't take the entire to grasp everything, honestly).
What I'm arguing is that Weaken is far more practical and has much better utility than Fizzle. Maybe nobody has the genius you do or that nobody has the card itself, but in the tourney, I've yet to run into an opponent who has dropped a Fizzle on me (let alone one who actually used it successfully too). Weaken however is still somewhat played. I'm only saying that, in most cases, most people would much rather have a Weaken than a Fizzle, and if you want to compare more common situations, Weaken will undoubtedly be more effective in those than Fizzle.
Eab1990
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
I'm tired, so I'm just going to requote this.
Or, in other other words, Fizzle. Is. Not. Useless. It simply plays to different strengths and has a greater mind-game factor to it.
Honestly, the sheer length to which you guys are going to discount 2 mana cost vs. 0 mana cost, just because Weaken actually does something and Fizzle does not, is more mind-boggling to me. It's like you guys are literally arguing that one turn's worth of mana doesn't make a difference. I don't need a contrived setup to prove that isn't the case.
Furthermore, my opponent was not stupid, regardless of whether or not you think his strategy was effective. He had a very specific strategy in focusing on one or two powerhouses, and did everything he thought he could do to keep them alive. Flame Rekindled to revive his Miyabi and catch me off-guard. Playing Sylvie after I dealt my Decree on his Miyabi the second time around. Avoiding my own Miyabi until he thought there was a big enough power difference. Traps everywhere to keep me on the ropes. Remember that he only lost because he didn't account for my Marsha. Fizzle was just one step that attributed to my win, but it was a noteworthy one, since regardless of what-ifs, it kept my Miyabi alive. That alone has to count for something.
I'm tired, so I'm just going to requote this.
Or, in other words, just because Weaken will work in more situations doesn't mean that Weaken should always be your go-to bluff card, particularly if you don't have the mana to play it.
Or, in other other words, Fizzle. Is. Not. Useless. It simply plays to different strengths and has a greater mind-game factor to it.
Honestly, the sheer length to which you guys are going to discount 2 mana cost vs. 0 mana cost, just because Weaken actually does something and Fizzle does not, is more mind-boggling to me. It's like you guys are literally arguing that one turn's worth of mana doesn't make a difference. I don't need a contrived setup to prove that isn't the case.
Furthermore, my opponent was not stupid, regardless of whether or not you think his strategy was effective. He had a very specific strategy in focusing on one or two powerhouses, and did everything he thought he could do to keep them alive. Flame Rekindled to revive his Miyabi and catch me off-guard. Playing Sylvie after I dealt my Decree on his Miyabi the second time around. Avoiding my own Miyabi until he thought there was a big enough power difference. Traps everywhere to keep me on the ropes. Remember that he only lost because he didn't account for my Marsha. Fizzle was just one step that attributed to my win, but it was a noteworthy one, since regardless of what-ifs, it kept my Miyabi alive. That alone has to count for something.
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kokotheworm
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
I advise all low level player or mid level player to stop playing the tournament altogether , at this point they are nothing else than fodder for the victory of those who maxed their card .
Random luck + broken matchmaking = 1/10 ratio of victory
I advise all low level player or mid level player to stop playing the tournament altogether , at this point they are nothing else than fodder for the victory of those who maxed their card .
Random luck + broken matchmaking = 1/10 ratio of victory
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redscizor
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
And gatcha point, I have only 600 x win, Is is terrible, before was 1200
freeko
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Re: [Nutaku] Angelic Saga
The destroyed card could have been literally any card, nevermind the cost of it.
That is where you are misguided. Lets say he plays the shell game again and hits either of the two other cards? The card he hits literally does not matter so long as the other two cards left (the ones that were left over in your screenshot that is) survived. That this one specific situation allows you to foolishly continue to champion a card that does nothing is humorous to say the least.
The destroyed card could have been literally any card, nevermind the cost of it.