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SIM [pinkpetal] PyTFall (Ren'Py)


vampirial

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

^ this.

if in the end the goal in this game is to view existed CG, then why dont i just view them in some HCG gallery sites? sim games are good, but only when it includes original CGs. really there's no point in viewing CG that existed in my hard drive for decades, let alone the game itself being big burden for my disk space
Very few hentai sim games are about the CG. The majority of them put the focus on the actual gameplay. Even the ones with original artwork are usually low quality slides that i would rather not have been there. The only ones who put emphasis on high quality art, are companies making the game for profit.

[*]intellectual property. This is a sticking point. Let's assume that the design concerns get sorted out, UI is streamlined, the gameplay gets balanced into a reasonable mix of fun-vs-challenge, etc...
  • If the game becomes popular, then it's going to be a target of harassment (by artists, aspiring artists, artist-supporting gamers, etc) and filehost takedown requests.
  • The dev team could deflect this criticism or workaround it (e.g. by releasing the game itself as a content-free skeleton, and then strongly advising players not to download any "unauthorized" content packs from bittorrent sites nudge-nudge-wink-wink).
  • I'd still feel uncomfortable working on a project which openly abused intellectual property in this way. At a minimum, the image-tagging system ought to allow for identification of artists (and/or source links) and the game should include a prominent message of gratitude.
[/list]
This is a non-issue, as long as the game developers don't profit from the game or claim the art is theirs then all is well. (according to US IP and copyright laws) The worst that could happen is for one of the artist to ask for their art to be removed. But seeing as how slavemaker 3 is already extremely popular and has had no major issues from this, I wouldn't fret at all over it.
 
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Kuroshu

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

I've always liked sim games, especially well developed ones.
With Slavemaker, I was hooked with the non "Vanilla" girls. Since they aren't just "slideshows" the images only served to give you an idea of what's happening in the text.
The problem with WM and potentially PyTFall is that the game is too broad. The content is just too little. It seems to be going for Quantity over quality. If each girls can be developed with some personality then even if we only had 10 girls it will still be "fresh"

Art wise.
It would be nice to include the artist or the original source of the art piece but sometimes that just isn't possible. Either because you got it from a repack ie "Bukkake Pack" that is a mixture of just that type.
I would also argue that so long as your not selling it then most would probably let it go.
That is if they where not selling that piece to begin with. This usually happens when that artist uses their own personally created character.

The problem with creating NEW art for a game is that it can get extremely expensive. Development would also slow down on the game itself especially if your the one making said art. Take in mind how much pics are used already. then imagine paying an artist 5 dollars for EACH of those, maybe even more. Then watch as someone just uploads said art... Yeah... so you getting unique art is wasted...

Sometimes even if the art does exist you might find one that you never have seen. If you your self already have images saved in your comp then just replace the ones in the game with your. That way you won't have duplicates.
 

Spiderman

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

My only complain so far is you basically throwing any CG in which the girl is "similar" to the actual girl, a least put some effort into looking for art, if there isn't enough art of certain girl don't put her on game.

I even saw CGs from a game i was playing 1 hour ago and i obviously knew she wasn't that girl.
 

KHTA

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

My only complain so far is you basically throwing any CG in which the girl is "similar" to the actual girl, a least put some effort into looking for art, if there isn't enough art of certain girl don't put her on game.

I even saw CGs from a game i was playing 1 hour ago and i obviously knew she wasn't that girl.
This is the one thing Slave maker and Sim brothel excelled at and is why they are so famous. If you're training Shampoo every sex image is of Shampoo. About the artwork, I don't really care if it's personal art or fan art I just don't like seeing CG from another game displaying. There's PLENTY of fan art both of original and copyright characters that, unless you're making the game on the scale of slave maker, you can find artwork for any type of girl.

Wanna have Hatsune Miku in your game? danbooru alone will give you 41k pics of her. Shimakaze? 3k. Komeiji Koishi? 10k. Wanna venture to a.....darker side? 100+ of a certain Miku cosplaying robot.
 
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Xela

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

Phew... One thing at a time :) Thanks for the feedback again!

  • excessive scope

The main idea behind the game is to include and balance out several possible play-styles. The other side of the coin to people who might be intimidated by that is that there are people who welcome that. For example on the dev team, CW dislikes slavery/slave training and everything slave related... he enjoys events, dating, girlsmeets and those types of things. Dark loves exploration, items, combat. Most girlsmeets are Ren'Py scripted by CW, most battle/items related stuff is created by Dark in xml/json. I work on the code to make adding all that stuff possible for none programmers basically.

We've agreed not to force the player on any specific path, other than that we discuss new features a little bit but rarely actually ban stuff from the game. I wanted to allow arena betting as well but Dark thought it would be a way to mine gold for people who's just save/reload the game so we decided to leave it until post Alpha at least. You can have two AI team fight each other no problem and noone would mind if you wanted to add anything to the game that doesn't create a fork of: (4 example) either kill a slave or it's a game over. As long as there is an option of either kill a slave/continue paying but my cool mod ends here, it should be fine. Also anything can be discussed first...


We've been prototyping map and area exploration for the future btw, this images are from the game, features were too raw to include into the Alpha:


  • technical factors

- Any file that starts with items and ends with .xml and is inside of that folder will be loaded and added to items.

- I am not a programmer and never worked with XML schema so I have no idea what that's like or how is it even useful. I've only learned how to code with this project (and still am learning new stuff).

- Legacy issue, we've started with XML, then Matt came along and showed me how to do the same with JSON in 1/2 of the time and 10x the convenience I did it with XML, I forgot what XML was was since then. He spent couple of month with the team, mostly teaching me how to code stuff properly, introducing us to version control and making sure nothing remained in my sh!tty code structure that would make future development impossible. After I could take care of stuff myself, he left.

  • legacy content.

Maybe the save file size can be decreased. Especially at the cost of save loading time, just loading the tags database every time new game starts will cut the filesize in half I think. Also on unrelated issue, when I've reported file size to Ren'Py developers, their first, second and third reactions were: "Not bloody likely" but they've never seen the game. I'll analyze it properly when I get the chance. It's 17 MB in open text format so that takes a while to go through. We never had trouble tracking errors so far and transferring save files from PC to PC is impossible at the moment (it's fairly easy to fix though, all content that does not exist on receivers end would have to be deleted and tag database rebuilt).

There is a learning curve with any new game mods.

I am not sure that I understand/share the other concerns.

  • creative contribution.

It should be done in Ren'Py script mostly, only advanced stuff requires Python.

Remember the scene when you first enter the Slave Market? There is a conversation where Blue moves to the left, Stan appears and they're talking.

Code:
        $ g = Character("Blue", color=blue, show_two_window=True)
        
        g "We usually try to prevent customers from seeing anything they might find unpleasant."
        g "But that weasel Stan is always trying to push 'unfinished' product."
        g "I mean what's the point? Reputation is much more important!"
        
        $ s = Character("Stan", show_two_window=True)
        
        show npc blue at bottom_quarter_right
        with move
        show npc2 stan at bottom_quarter_left
        with dissolve
        
        s "Hey, hey there!"
        s "Is there anyone here talking about me?"
        s "Just the cool things I assume!?"
        g "What the hell are you talking about? Those slaves were a disgrace to our good rep!"
        s "Temper, temper my dear... quality of those slaves are your problem."
        s "Keeping the cash flowing, gold rolling so Mr. Big satisfied, is mine!"
        s "I am going to get some measure of todays lots and what we can get for them!"
        s "Don't bother our prospective clients and go play with your slaves while {color=[red]}I{/color} take care of real work! <Smirks>"
This is the whole code that governs that, animated movement and replacing pictures included. In open text format... If modders want to have it easier than this, they might have to do a whole bit of searching for a game or a system that would allow it.

I am aware that the game world is an issue, we've been postponing decisions about that for far too long but with no native English writers on the team, it'll prolly continue until we start creating content that is directly related to that, like a main story. Basically there are very free rules in the world right now and if someone wants to add event revealing more about the world, noone on the team will mind.

Clicking Help on the game menu should lead you to our part in the WM forum, repo is closed (many people were downloading it and we closed it off as we started adding NPCs and events so they would be a surprise, it was open for 5 or 6 month before that time) but PM me your username on SourceForge and I'll add you to it.

  • intellectual property.

Yeah, you're prolly right but I wanted the Alpha to be the out-of-the-box kinda package. Inexperienced computer users have trouble even placing new girls into the correct folder.
 
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Xela

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

My only complain so far is you basically throwing any CG in which the girl is "similar" to the actual girl, a least put some effort into looking for art, if there isn't enough art of certain girl don't put her on game.

I even saw CGs from a game i was playing 1 hour ago and i obviously knew she wasn't that girl.
We'll try our best but it's a lot of images to go through and tag. Many packs are really good but some might fall behind in their general quality.

There was a small update yesterday fixing two game breaking bugs (taxes and work-mc profile crash).

Patch: (Will not break savegames and fix two bad bugs)
You need to find the game the folder and delete a library folder inside replacing it with a library folder from this archive:

I will properly update front post with patches starting from tonight (I'll try to include the most requested features/gui tweaks from all forums). But there should be nothing else that actually crashes the game or completely breaks gameplay.
 
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Xela

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

BTW:

We're not selling or ever planning to sell this. Game is made by the fans of SM/WM/SimBro/OW for the fans, the idea is to make a game that allows very easy modding and adding of new content and better development tools in general.
 
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Xela

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

The problem with WM and potentially PyTFall is that the game is too broad. The content is just too little. It seems to be going for Quantity over quality. If each girls can be developed with some personality then even if we only had 10 girls it will still be "fresh"
I know... it's an approach. On the other hand every girls response in girlsmeets or interactions can be very easiely modded and we also try to sort girls personalities by traits, it's far from perfect but we may get to the acceptable level at some point :)
 

stuntcock42

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

I know... it's an approach. On the other hand every girls response in girlsmeets or interactions can be very easiely modded and we also try to sort girls personalities by traits, it's far from perfect but we may get to the acceptable level at some point :)
The trait system is probably the best approach, considering your plans for the game. It allows casual players to get a general "feel" for a character even if they're not familiar with the source material. In a typical game, you would tend to rely on art to convey this sort of first-impression stuff (e.g. thin character = frail; smiling character = outgoing) but those visual cues are unreliable here because PyTFall uses a mix of material from different artists*.

More importantly, it allows developers (or modders) to create "template-based" content. If I'm adding a tsundere character, I might split up her dialogue so that half of it is unique to her, while the other half would apply to any character with the [[tsundere]] trait. Pseudocode example:
Code:
randomevent("girl_attacked_by_customer")
  if (randomNumber > girl.Defense)
    girl.Health -= 50;
    girls.all.Morale -= 20;
    showMessage("{girl.name} was attacked by a customer.  The news quickly reaches the other girls who begin to fear for their own safety.");
  elseif (girl.hasTrait("tsundere"))
    girl.Spirit ++;
    girls.all.Morale ++;
    brothel.customers --;
    showMessage("{girl.name} disables her attacker with a vicious kick to the groin.  The other customers wince in sympathy.  It'll take the man a few minutes to get up off the floor, and he certainly won't be returning in the future.");
    // TODO: give the player the choice to punish the girl or congratulate her?
  elseif (girl.hasTrait("telepath"))
    girl.MP --;
    showMessage("As the man is about to attack, {girl.name} clears the violent intentions from his mind.");
  else
    showMessage(girl.name + "was able to defend herself.");
endEvent
Of course, this sort of thing would become tricky when traits start to collide. If you have [[catgirl]] + [[tsundere]], then it's going to take some fancy scripting work in order to obtain "I-It's not like I like you or anything, nya!"


* The artwork is actually a bit deceptive because it shows characters "at their best." In terms a game mechanics, a newly-recruited girl is actually a terrified and barely-coherent person struggling to cope with an unfamiliar world. She's clad in rags, she may even have open wounds, and she's certainly not much fun to be around. Meanwhile, the artwork shows a smiling girl with perfect skin, a healthy tan, studio makeup, and a bikini. :confused:
 

hassam

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

IMO the interface is not only bad it is rather gaudy. I mean what is up with those random flashing lights on the main page (the place where you select if you want to go to town, manage your brothels ect). Furthermore that gif of Rukia and Orihime dancing serves no purpose in the game, not only that it looks incredibly out of place.

Now there is also the problem with the interface, it is rather unintuitive. It took far to long for me to actually figure my way around the game menus, especially for how to equip an item on to a girl. Seriously the entire interface needs to be redesigned so that it is very clear what each button does and it also needs to be simplified.
 
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Xela

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

IMO the interface is not only bad it is rather gaudy. I mean what is up with those random flashing lights on the main page (the place where you select if you want to go to town, manage your brothels ect). Furthermore that gif of Rukia and Orihime dancing serves no purpose in the game, not only that it looks incredibly out of place.

Now there is also the problem with the interface, it is rather unintuitive. It took far to long for me to actually figure my way around the game menus, especially for how to equip an item on to a girl. Seriously the entire interface needs to be redesigned so that it is very clear what each button does and it also needs to be simplified.
LoL

Well, it IS guady! By our own admission the entire team except maybe for CW has no nose for graphics design at all :( And CW doesn't seem to be bothered by it.

We have an entire subversion set aside for redesigning the interface and I know two professional graphics designers who might want to put in some time into it (who are freaking wizards with photoshop) but I don't want to bother them until there is a solid version with all the planned features in place.

Basically you can consider all screens as flashy placeholders cause they are just that at the moment.
====

I will release a patch tonight that will address the most requested feature across all forums where I've posted this: Add Next Day button available everywhere (will appear instead of AP when that reaches 0), add instantaneous return to Game Main Menu button and make a right mouse click serve the same function as the "go back button" on the top-stripe.

It will also fix a number of bugs and exploits that are not game breaking but often annoying.

====
I am afraid that a more consistent and intuitive interface will have to wait until better times...
 
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Xela

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

Soz for a late response, I've completely missed your reply :(

The trait system is probably the best approach, considering your plans for the game. It allows casual players to get a general "feel" for a character even if they're not familiar with the source material. In a typical game, you would tend to rely on art to convey this sort of first-impression stuff (e.g. thin character = frail; smiling character = outgoing) but those visual cues are unreliable here because PyTFall uses a mix of material from different artists*.
And characters from completely different universes... It's impossible to get right, best we could do is to allow any modder a quick, simple and easy accessible way to override generic interactions and girlsmeets and replace those with written for a specific character. It's a lot simpler than trying to create if/elif forks for relevant traits, but isn't properly documented anywhere yet.

More importantly, it allows developers (or modders) to create "template-based" content. If I'm adding a tsundere character, I might split up her dialogue so that half of it is unique to her, while the other half would apply to any character with the [[tsundere]] trait. Pseudocode example:
Code:
randomevent("girl_attacked_by_customer")
  if (randomNumber > girl.Defense)
    girl.Health -= 50;
    girls.all.Morale -= 20;
    showMessage("{girl.name} was attacked by a customer.  The news quickly reaches the other girls who begin to fear for their own safety.");
  elseif (girl.hasTrait("tsundere"))
    girl.Spirit ++;
    girls.all.Morale ++;
    brothel.customers --;
    showMessage("{girl.name} disables her attacker with a vicious kick to the groin.  The other customers wince in sympathy.  It'll take the man a few minutes to get up off the floor, and he certainly won't be returning in the future.");
    // TODO: give the player the choice to punish the girl or congratulate her?
  elseif (girl.hasTrait("telepath"))
    girl.MP --;
    showMessage("As the man is about to attack, {girl.name} clears the violent intentions from his mind.");
  else
    showMessage(girl.name + "was able to defend herself.");
endEvent
Of course, this sort of thing would become tricky when traits start to collide. If you have [[catgirl]] + [[tsundere]], then it's going to take some fancy scripting work in order to obtain "I-It's not like I like you or anything, nya!"
I've been thinking about how to allow modders to add responses to jobs as well, right now it's impossible from separate files. This is definitely an option. The thing is, I don't want to mess with it before a final draft of jobs code, right now, girlsmeets/interactions might become more numerous but they will never change in their core so it would be safe to do writing for those, yet jobs might change completely.

* The artwork is actually a bit deceptive because it shows characters "at their best." In terms a game mechanics, a newly-recruited girl is actually a terrified and barely-coherent person struggling to cope with an unfamiliar world. She's clad in rags, she may even have open wounds, and she's certainly not much fun to be around. Meanwhile, the artwork shows a smiling girl with perfect skin, a healthy tan, studio makeup, and a bikini. :confused:
Yeah, that's almost impossible to get right even with a very powerful tagging system. We could theoretically scrap the whole charisma thing and have a fixed stat with a possibility to increase it just a little bit. This might be worth looking into and it is definitely not to late to do so. The trouble with that is that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and disputes on how that compares from girl to girl will never end. There is no realistic solution to solve this either without changing the scope of the game.

Great job on the SuperDeepthroat game btw, whatever you did helping with it's development. It turned out awesome :)
================
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There is now a torrent setup by someone on LoK forums and a new patch fixing some issues and adding some new functionality to GUI (Front post). More and more bug reports are coming in but nothing crashing or even ruining game experience so far. I'll be clearing those soon as well.
 

combi11

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

Hell guys, can anyone give me the links?? are break ! please :):D
 

haspes23

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

Looks pretty decent, thanks for sharing.
 

Fanboy06

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

Hell guys, can anyone give me the links?? are break ! please :):D
There is some loli content in it (download links for loli content is against the forum rules)... but u cant get it at their official site. Or u could just wait, because the latest version in an alpha from 2014 or so.
 

panzerelite

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Re: PyTFall (Ren'Py)

any one can upload torrent for this game my mega bandwith it limit now:confused::confused::confused:
 
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