PSA: Patreon pledgers will pay a processing fee in two weeks.

[raska42]

Mate it's less than a dollar on a 10$ pledge, not 50% of your pledges -_- the only framework wherein this is significant is for 1$ pledges which are kind of shite anyway since a creator would get roughly half that amount. The result is that even if half the 1$ pledges drop the creators would still get the same amount of money, since they no longer need to pay huge amounts in transaction fees, and costs like these are better off split.

With the new system, you're now paying ~140% on a $1 pledge (~1.40), ~125% on a $2 pledge (~2.50). While there's pro's and con's, I for one don't like semi-hidden fees. If I'm pledging $1, I'm pledging $1, not $1.40. This is definitely going to hurt creators who prefer large numbers of small pledges ($1-$2), as opposed to middling amounts of $5-$10 pledges, as I don't think I'm along in thinking that this change is a load of BS. A donation is a donation, you don't charge people to donate. The secondary change, is that all pledges are being done separately now, Using myself as an example, I was pledgeing $5 to 4 creators, and 1$ to another 5 (and $10 to YT on the off chance he gets anything done), each of those will have the fee applied to them, translating to me paying $30 rather than the $25 I pledged. So no, not 50%, more like 20% (less if you support less creators...). That being said, I've dropped the $1 pledges, and now it's looking like roughly $23 for $20 in pledges (down to around 13%).

Also, for $1 pledges, creators were getting about 70%, not 50%. Guess who's pocketing the $0.10 difference as well as the extra on the transaction fees ($0.35 per transaction is ridiculous if you know anything about how they work. They are paying less than $0.01 per transaction (likely 0.003 or 0.004). Keep in mind that the 5% they take from creators is whats supposed to be their profits/operating costs in this new system...). I could almost see that if there was currency change involved, but I'm fairly sure that the donator picks that up already (and will now be picking it up for each transaction).

Personally, I'm kinda pissed about the whole thing and considering pulling the rest of my pledges. If anything, this is going to make people look at the fee's they charging, and start questioning what the hell is going on.

Side-note: While everything I've written is correct to my understanding, there is the possibility that I've misunderstood something.

 

[YllariusCroceus]

Mate it's less than a dollar on a 10$ pledge, not 50% of your pledges -_- the only framework wherein this is significant is for 1$ pledges which are kind of shite anyway since a creator would get roughly half that amount. The result is that even if half the 1$ pledges drop the creators would still get the same amount of money, since they no longer need to pay huge amounts in transaction fees, and costs like these are better off split.

your right, I can't math at all. 10$ pledges are more like 10.60 now, not 13$. I added an extra decimal.

Regardless, there's only one person I pledge 10$ too, the rest are 1-5$.

10 1$ pledges are 14$, which is where I was getting the 13$ pledges.

Regardless, it's pretty ridiculous. Your employer doesn't pay taxes when they pay YOU, YOU pay taxes on the money earned. It's the same basic principle.

 

[Omnikuken]

Patreon being a bunch of scrubs (most fetishes need to be removed cause reasons) and/or greedy (pay more "for the devs" my ass) shouldn't surprise anybody ...... Even better : why not add fees 2 weeks before Christmas while you're at it, it can't be that bad

 

[BluFalcon]

Well, unfortunately, this is going to make me unpledge from quite a few people. Feels bad but it is what it is. I imagine a lot of the smaller content creators are going to be hurting from these changes.

 

[Omnikuken]

Maybe now people will see what Patreon is really like and move on (far away) from it to finance their projects ..... Probably not though

 

[erobotan]

Maybe now people will see what Patreon is really like and move on (far away) from it to finance their projects ..... Probably not though

If Enty has an english version then i will gladly move. As for Hatreon, it doesn't seem to have any gaming crowd ... .

 

[Yoshiiki]

Ok, I don't see any mention of this here... but this fee is one thing, what about VAT for people in EU? Are we going to pay this fee + VAT? Is this included in already extra VAT?
Hmm... just checked and yep: if someone pledges anything from EU it will be: pledge + VAT and on top of that, this extra fee. For example, for pledge of $5 and 23% VAT it will now be: $5 + $1.15 + ~$.5, so $6.65.

Generally, this is just a big middle finger to all people that pledge. Patreon is getting moronic, it's safe to assume if they keep doing this, it will change into dying platform.
This is just utterly disgusting practice, you don't put additional fees like that. If someone pledges $1, that person should pay 1 buck and not fees for supporting someone. Sure, people from EU had to pay VAT but it wasn't something that patreon had power over. This? Pure shit... Now to see if they can came up with more moronic idea next time.

 

[Omnikuken]

^ They already removed promoting anything not consensual vanilla guy on girl sex scene ..... At this point, they'd either go down the drain or revert some of the tard moves they did, they can't really go down farther (unless they find a way to be even dumber)

 

[erobotan]

^ They already removed promoting anything not consensual vanilla guy on girl sex scene ..... At this point, they'd either go down the drain or revert some of the tard moves they did, they can't really go down farther (unless they find a way to be even dumber)

from what i heard, the creators only need to remove all of those from the main page. Your games are still allowed to have those, as well as patron only posts.

 

[Enlit3D]

Maybe now people will see what Patreon is really like and move on (far away) from it to finance their projects ..... Probably not though

For better or for worse, currently there are no real competitive alternatives to Patreon.

There is a huge mark up fee for international developers to put their games on DLSite. ~15-20% on top of the already high ~35% DLSite service fee.
Enty requires a Japanese bank account, or if you don't, you need to get in touch with Enty to request bank transfers on a case-by-case basis.
If the idea is that the dev should stop asking money for their products, then most current western games will either become abandoned or grind to a halt (I suppose it's arguable that this makes no difference on some Patreon projects).

from what i heard, the creators only need to remove all of those from the main page. Your games are still allowed to have those, as well as patron only posts.

Patreon started to going after restricted game contents as well. Several "big" incest patreon game were hit by this, and is now resorted to use a patch from "anonymous source" to restore original content.

 

[erobotan]

Patreon started to going after restricted game contents as well. Several "big" incest patreon game were hit by this, and is now resorted to use a patch from "anonymous source" to restore original content.

so saaad ... . I'll take a look at enty, just in case things get even worse in the west, thanks for the info

 

[hugo77]

Awful change by Patreon, if anyone should be hit by fees its the creators - they are making money from Patreon after all, its their business. Thankfully it doesnt bother me much since i only support 4 creators currently, 2 of which are "charge per major release".
As for non consensual themes being targeted - i didnt notice any difference in content from my favourite creators and they are all making non consensual stuff. Incest can go to hell for all i care, too much of this crap was infesting porn lately anyway.

 

[Deathwing9000]

If Enty has an english version then i will gladly move. As for Hatreon, it doesn't seem to have any gaming crowd ... .

Hatreon may see more customers though if Patreon continues down this path of lunacy... I've heard tales though the vines that a few popular animators are going that way instead of using Patreon due to those new terms and all about consensual, beast, and what have you.

 

[Papanomics]

I was watching the Know on Youtube and they said something about a service similar to Patreon but built to compete against it just literally established itself. It's called Drip I think. If they are smart, they do whatever Patreon was doing with some tweaks. Time for Patreon to die.

 

[Someone92]

If Enlit3D numbers are correct:

$1 pledge, you pay $1.379, creator gets $0.95 => 68.9%
$5 pledge, $5.495, $4,75 => 86.4%
$10 pledge, $10.64, $9,5 => 89.3%
$15 pledge, $15,785, $14,25 => 90.3%

So, unless a creator hast mostly $10 pledges and higher they will get less money from now on.

 

[erobotan]

I was watching the Know on Youtube and they said something about a service similar to Patreon but built to compete against it just literally established itself. It's called Drip I think. If they are smart, they do whatever Patreon was doing with some tweaks. Time for Patreon to die.

Drip? i think it's owned by kickstarter, and one of their main content creator is anita sarkesiaan lol and a bunch of other weirdos with colorful hair. And since it's owned by Kickstarter, it will only support 1st world countries.

Hatreon may see more customers though if Patreon continues down this path of lunacy... I've heard tales though the vines that a few popular animators are going that way instead of using Patreon due to those new terms and all about consensual, beast, and what have you.

let's hope so, and hopefully the patrons will follow too

 

[HentaiWriter]

I was watching the Know on Youtube and they said something about a service similar to Patreon but built to compete against it just literally established itself. It's called Drip I think. If they are smart, they do whatever Patreon was doing with some tweaks. Time for Patreon to die.

From the Drip website;

"When can I start a Drip?
Drip is currently in an invite-only period for creators. We plan to open up more early next year, and you can drop your email in at the bottom of the homepage to be notified when we do."

"What payment methods can I use to subscribe to a drip?
You can use a debit or credit card associated with Visa, Discover, JCB, MasterCard, or American Express."

So invite-only for now, and no PayPal.
Also, this little bit they stuck in there;

"Drip doesn’t own content you submit to us (your “Content”). But we do need certain licenses from you in order to perform our Services. When you submit a subscription for review, or launch a subscription, you agree to these terms:

We can use the content you’ve submitted. You grant to us, and others acting on our behalf, the worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable, transferable right to use, exercise, commercialize, and exploit the copyright, publicity, trademark, and database rights with respect to your Content.
When we use the content, we can make changes, like editing or translating it. You grant us the right to edit, modify, reformat, excerpt, delete, or translate any of your Content."

That's uh, kinda worrying. HentaiFoundry and DeviantArt had similar clauses if I remember right, and people found out quite a few ways they were using content in ways they didn't really appreciate.

"We can make changes to the Drip Site and Services without notice or liability.
We have the right to decide who’s eligible to use Drip. We can cancel accounts or decline to offer our Services. (Especially if you’re abusing them.) We can change our eligibility criteria at any time. If these things are prohibited by law where you live, then we revoke your right to use Drip in that jurisdiction.
We have the right to cancel any subscription to any drip, at any time and for any reason.
We have the right to reject, cancel, interrupt, remove, or suspend any drip at any time and for any reason."

The above is standard on a lot of sites, but it's a lot more strict/less defined than Patreon's rules by far.

-----------------------------------------

Now, the good news is that while I could have sworn they had it in their ToS earlier, Drip doesn't seem to list anywhere that they're against adult content whatsoever. They also charge the same 5% as Patreon, which is surprising given how much Kickstarter gouges you.

For the record too, I don't think the fee change is a good idea; I get their mentality, $1 pledges are probably annihilating them with transaction fees, any company wants to get rid of tiny charges repeatedly happening (even mobile games, which live and die by whales), but the problem is that a lot of people are funding a lot of creators with $1 pledges, and that adds up. I've personally had around $200 of pledges drop off of my Patreon in not wanting to pay the extra fees, and I fully understand why.

I'd be more than happy to continue paying the 7-15% amount of transaction fees myself, and I do think that's the best way to continue going about things rather than charging the consumer, but unfortunately I've got no way to change that, so all I can do is hope my backers want to stay and if not, I understand. I don't think Patreon is going to "die" anytime soon though, for a lot of reasons. They're still doing pretty well for themselves financially, I'd have to assume.

 

[habisain]

"Drip doesn’t own content you submit to us (your “Content”). But we do need certain licenses from you in order to perform our Services. When you submit a subscription for review, or launch a subscription, you agree to these terms:

We can use the content you’ve submitted. You grant to us, and others acting on our behalf, the worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable, transferable right to use, exercise, commercialize, and exploit the copyright, publicity, trademark, and database rights with respect to your Content.
When we use the content, we can make changes, like editing or translating it. You grant us the right to edit, modify, reformat, excerpt, delete, or translate any of your Content."

That's uh, kinda worrying. HentaiFoundry and DeviantArt had similar clauses if I remember right, and people found out quite a few ways they were using content in ways they didn't really appreciate.

On this specific point: I think the gist of it is stuff that submitted to the Drip website must be licensed to them. It's worth noting that

You must be registered to see the links

- even if they do caveat it with language like "the purpose of this license is to allow us to operate Patreon", they can still do pretty much whatever they want with content submitted to the Patreon website because the law doesn't really care about the purpose of the license - only what you licensed to them. The basic take-away message is that if you want to keep exclusive control of something (e.g. a backer reward), you should distribute it outside of the funding website; linking from the funding website to your hosting should circumvent the problem. Drip/Patreon/And probably every other site will request a fairly broad licensing arrangement if you host it with them, so just bear that in mind for what you put on your Drip/Patreon/Whatever page.

Also I'd point out the following caveat around Drip/Adult content: While Drip does not have anything against adult content in their terms of use, it appears to use

You must be registered to see the links

. Pornographic content is on that list. I don't know what definitions they use for pornographic content (

You must be registered to see the links

), but I would not be entirely comfortable assuming that Drip will provide a home for every Patreon in trouble.

 

[HentaiWriter]

On this specific point: I think the gist of it is stuff that submitted to the Drip website must be licensed to them. It's worth noting that

You must be registered to see the links

To be fair, the big difference is that Drip mentions a transferable right and the ability to exercise, commercialize, and exploit your copyright as well as your trademark and database rights. Patreon mentions none of this in their ToS.

Definitely a good point on the Kickstarter stuff, too, but then again multiple hentai games have been hosted on Kickstarter too.

 

[Yoshiiki]

A lot depends on how it's written, especially when it comes to ToS. You can have two things doing exactly same thing, but one written in such way it seems harsh, while other sounds fair/good.
Also: you can buy art, get ownership of it, but not copyrights. Good luck reproducing anything with it. And if their site modifies original images in a way, they need permission to do so, most often for free.
Sure, it can be abused, but as long as original creator(arists) is alive, it's really hard to strip them of their own work.