punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

[Belkezar]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

My own preference is GOR.

If done right, you can have both.

Studio e.go! did a very nice little shooter game named Debo no Subako (dmm.co.jp/en/dc/pcgame/-/detail/=/cid=hobe_0093/). The URL might take a couple tries, depending on hitting the age authentication.

Basic premise is you're playing a girl with a talking magic weapon who's fighting through a horde of monsters to save another girl. If you pick Sora (the schoolgirl with a fire katana), she's trying to figure out what happened to her monster-hunting sister. If you pick Nanaka (the miko with an ice naginata), she's trying to rescue another miko that was abducted from her temple.

The game plays as a bullet hell shooter, with it being much more extreme on higher difficulties. The girls can shoot fire or ice (and get upgrades to their shooting), have a super move that one-shots most enemies, and can swing their weapons to kill foes and block some projectiles.

You have infinite continues. When you continue, your score resets to 0 and you immediately pick up from where you got dropped. Both girls fight the same set of stages and bosses. The game doesn't have stage select, but you can save on each stage you reach with a girl, and load the save to start on that stage.

If you lose while fighting a boss and decide to not continue (remember, continues are infinite - even on hard mode you can win by sheer attrition), you get a GOR involving the girl and the boss. The first boss is a (probably) mindless tentacle monster, but the later bosses (a tengu, an incubus, a bug monster named Satan, and a fallen angel) are fully voiced. The dialogues are pretty gleefully messed up, especially the ones with the tengu and Satan.

If you beat a boss, the game cuts to a scene showing what's happening to the girl you're trying to rescue. Sora's sister is one boss ahead of you, going through RoL and escaping (until the fallen angel catches her). Nanaka's friend goes through a series of degradations at the hands of the fallen angel, who's killing time until Nanaka (who he refers to in English as the "Main Dish") arrives.

It's a game I was rather fond of, though I lost it when my old computer died.

Its helps that Nanaka's voice actress actually has a sexy voice, and not the squeeky/screechy stuff that normally comes from Japanese voice actresses. Nanaka's GOR dialogues are fucking hot.

LiliPalace would be another good GOR game - after a GOR scene played out, you were immediately reset to the square right before the fight, with health and mana restored. Nearly all of the CG came from GOR, but it was a pretty painless process (and, hilariously enough, it's more efficient to just trigger a GOR than heal between fights).

 

[MetalDemon]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

Game over rape, versus reward rape is just something that needs to fit the tone of the game. In Rance, it's all about being the big, strong dominant guy so you get reward sex. In MGQ, the game is about struggling through a world where everything is bigger and more powerful than you, so GOR is used.

Either way, execution is the most important thing. If you do GOR, then make game overs relatively painless so that people can actually enjoy the scenes. If you do reward sex, plot your difficulty so that it's hard for players to lose, because losing takes away the feeling of dominance that reward sex is trying to create.

On a small tangent:
No matter what you do, if you're making an H game, then people are there for the sex, so you need to have frequent sex content. Of course, it's really expensive to write and illustrate a hundred sex scenes, so you have to find more subtle ways to work it in. The most common way people do this is they have a female protagonist and a rich clothing system.

 

[TitanAnteus]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I think this is a good discussion. In my opinion it depends on how you want your protagonist to look.

In games that have GOR, your protagonist isn't particularly looking for sex and has different goals, you can have more... umm... "normal" characters in GOR situations. There's also an added level of difficulty where the player themselves have to fight their own lust to see the scenes vs move on. I personally like GOR because I think, hey I'm going to try and beat this game, so if I win I get the reward of the satisfaction of winning. If I lose I get the reward of an adult scene. Win-Win.

When you have reward sex... you have to think about that... so is your goal to rape the enemy? Maybe I just lack imagination, but I'm finding it really hard to reward the player with sex, and still make the player a likeable character.

EDIT: After reading and rereading through this thread I've concluded I lack imagination because it's definitely possible to make likeable characters in non GOR situations... I don't know... maybe I'm having hard time looking at this objectively since all my favorite games are GOR with the exception of the JSK games. Either way I basically agree with almost everything MetalDemon said above me.

 

[Papanomics]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I love being given the option to stop the sex if I need to. Like with MoGi, if you land the arrow in the valid space, the rape stops and you kick the pumpkin girl off. But honestly, if I was in his situation, I'd want to stick around for a while. If I'm correct though, every cumshot means that you get weaker, eventually you may not be able to push the girl off you, and she might rape you till you die.

Delicious.

 

[Darkstrain]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

in my experience, the games i've enjoyed the most (as a gamer), where those when i could choose, to a certain degree, how the game would develop.
GoR in general is boring when there are more GoR scenes, that standard scenes/poor endings reward.
Some examples of my fav games(excluding the big ones like sengoku rance):

-violated heroine: no cg, but damn this game would sell more than flappy bird if it ever gets completed, but sadly it won't ¿what makes it great? you can avoid all sex encounters in the game whilr playing a good story, you can have a reasonable encounter rate with the adult world (non-coitus scene) you can have vanilla experience, when she gets mental damage you are still strong and even while being slutty you have a lot of dignity as a character, bad endings are there as well so it's like the prefect mosh.

-sacred eyes:more classic kind of rpg, but it had the same traits as above, but, plot twist, the good route is the bad end, brilliant twist and more reason to play it more than one time.

-Virgin island: arguably the best of its kind, deep story, good characters, lots of variations, degree of purity, and actually making the game harder if you ever got boned. Has GoR, and its really good wich makes it better than generic games.

-crossing knightmare: this... the fact that all content you didnt like you could avoid was great. When you lose, you get amazing scenes, but can still finish the game however, you have to work a lot to return to a good spot. When you win (WHICH IS as HARD as SEPHIROT ON KINGDOM HEARTS) you had a different aproach to the game, an extra stage and even a harder experience.

honorable mentions go to:
-iris action: good GoR, Good scenes for working in the levels
-Most T-ENTA-P rpg games: great way of handling RoL into GoR

 

[Shadowgungc]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

In the end it really seems to come down to how its implemented and how much effort the player needs to put into getting to H-content.

I think the real question at this point, is what's the nature of the game? As the games tone and perspective will set the ground work for the side that the H content falls on. And I guess the step after that is how you implement the H-content once you know if the sex is reward or punishment.

 

[omp1234]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

GOR expands on the narrative of "What happens when the hero loses?" Usually, that answer is "the hero dies" or some other non-canon ending that leaves you saying "No, that isn't right, the hero isn't SUPPOSED to lose like this." But GOR can sometimes give you what you want, a bit of H content from defeat, while not ending in an absolute failure of the mission, i.e. running away back into town.

There are ways to go about this, whether it be speeding up the way you lose (a self destruct move or a "submit" option), unlocking the GOR scene upon VICTORY over the enemy and therefore not needing to lose again for a complete gallery, or the game itself already revolves around sex (battlefuck games) and losing makes you orgasm over and over in a sequence that's more or less just bonus narrative, while victory unlocks the battle for use in a gallery.

Yes, it's often pandering and pads the length of the game because if death is the ONLY way to unlock the scenes, then we'll be dying a lot intentionally. But if death is not the only way to unlock the GOR scenes in a gallery, then GOR is just a neat little layer of content and narrative that would otherwise be a blank "GAME OVER" screen. It shouldn't be a "GOR or Victory/event sex", when it could be both! In the end, it's all up to the laziness or creativity of the game maker.

 

[FireoftheMonkey]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

Personally I like both although I find it rather interesting because honestly I find just one or the other to be slightly boring all in all. When playing a game I should want to progress because i wanna see more of the story, but in many games here I progress to lose to something else and get me a scene. If the loses don't give me what I want I tend to stop playing.

Game Over rape, I'm probably not along here but at the same time I don't expect to be in the majority. I like seeing the heroines lose and I like there being a scene where she loses and the world goes to shit. At the same time I like winning, I'm relatively good at games and I do enjoy winning. So I play through the game and search out the bad endings for the heroine.

Reward rapes, I place overwhored here because it is the first game to ever actually captivate me with it's reward rapes. It's frustrating at times because the combat in the game is decidedly easier then i want it to be. But beyond that your a evil master mind taking over the world and raping the heroines and mind controlling them as you go. This is nice reward rape you get a rape for beating the boss.

honestly both of these feed the same yearning which is to see stuck up heroines get their shit rocked and raped until they are submissive cum dumps. But this whole discussion got me thinking, could I enjoy a game that was both? More importantly how would one go about doing that where each one felt right? I played the game to get more story and to progress my heroine through the evil plot. But every so often i fostered relationships with other characters to get more scenes as I went.

To put it quite bluntly, I'm more of a GOR person then a VS person. (VH means victory Sex) But honestly I would love a good RPG which captured both. Each dungeon had a different bad ending but I still liked the characters enough to progress past them because I wanted her to win really. And I give my perfect example of this, although it only had GOR's. Unholy Sanctuary, I know it has odd capitalization I just don't wanna do it. It was an honestly fun game that I wanted to win and win completely, but I still lost to get the different CG's of the nun getting broken or chained up or what have you.

I enjoy a good raping of a heroine and I like the idea of getting consensual scenes as well. I think that the big thing we really lack in the H game area is a good expansive RPG like a final fantasy with both of these elements built in. We have a few but I'm lazy and don't like translating the games I play so I end up not playing a lot of them, maybe I'm just picky, I'm probably just picky.

TL;DR, I like GOR better then VS, doesn't mean I don't like both it's more the fact that generally speaking. You can't get a game that gives both, most games give one or the other and you deal with it.

 

[EggsnBacon]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I prefer Battle Fuck and RoR, where sex is basically implemented into the gameplay, instead of the end of it (whether gameover or finishing levels). The ultimate form of an H game would contain all of those aspects, sex in every circumstance!

 

[samo101]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I think it's best when it occurs without interrupting the flow of the game, so like if you wanted to have this big scene where someone gets into a typical 'trapped' GOR situation, you have to then escape it and continue onwards. Forcing game overs is kinda silly in my opinion, especially when you lose progress

 

[ngansex]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

i think i can read english but i feel boring when look at the long reply

i simple want a game that heroine can be raped instead of damaging by attacking , and sometimes she can rape some nice boy .... that's all

 

[Eld]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

Honestly? Battle fuck or non-combat game is the only way it really makes sense to me. Sex has to be a key part in a sex game; only having it appear when you lose means you basically play to lose. The content can still be good but that's not all that interesting. It's a good addition but it can't be the only H-content in the game.

Similarly, reward sex alone feels kind of, shall I say, boring? Save the princess for one scene, that just leaves the proportions wrong: too much game for too little sex. Let's face it, if I play a sex game, I want the sex. There are billions of awesome games out there that I could play if I wanted awesome games. Good gameplay is important to keep the sex games interesting (as evident in the billions of unplayable Flash-games with useless controls or completely pointless gameplay) but I don't require for the gameplay to be as good as the high budget commercial games. I do, however, expect the sex to be a prominent part of the game.


Battle sex is quite optimal in that regard; it still enables constructing gameplay but also ensures the sex is constantly present so as to cater to my limbic system, which is the reason I bother playing the game in the first place. Of course, there can also be GO Rape and reward sex and other types of gameplay sex but I feel a carrying theme such as battle sex is the optimal way to carry it through the game.

 

[azurezero]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

Honestly? Battle fuck or non-combat game is the only way it really makes sense to me. Sex has to be a key part in a sex game; only having it appear when you lose means you basically play to lose. The content can still be good but that's not all that interesting. It's a good addition but it can't be the only H-content in the game.

Similarly, reward sex alone feels kind of, shall I say, boring? Save the princess for one scene, that just leaves the proportions wrong: too much game for too little sex. Let's face it, if I play a sex game, I want the sex. There are billions of awesome games out there that I could play if I wanted awesome games. Good gameplay is important to keep the sex games interesting (as evident in the billions of unplayable Flash-games with useless controls or completely pointless gameplay) but I don't require for the gameplay to be as good as the high budget commercial games. I do, however, expect the sex to be a prominent part of the game.


Battle sex is quite optimal in that regard; it still enables constructing gameplay but also ensures the sex is constantly present so as to cater to my limbic system, which is the reason I bother playing the game in the first place. Of course, there can also be GO Rape and reward sex and other types of gameplay sex but I feel a carrying theme such as battle sex is the optimal way to carry it through the game.

there can always be more than one girl needing to be saved, but to save them from being raped to only end up fucking them yourself might feel a bit shallow... so maybe a plot like that would require a more serious plot...like saving them from death instead...

 

[trollonboard]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

Porn games: Battle Fuck, RoR or just games where the porn is part of a gameplay mechanic like Maiden Snow or the "Futa Mage Dragon Quest one" (I can't remember the name).
Games with porn: Victory Rape (reward sex), Game Over Rape or Rape on Lose.

I pretty much prefer the games of the first category and even better if the sex is actually beneficial for the player.
The perfect balance would be a game that allows the player the option to defeat the enemies with basic/special attacks and use sex as the grapple/throw moves while the computer does exactly the same to the player, effectively making sex into both a reward or punishment depending on who started the grapple move.

As long as there is a minimun amount of lore and the character is slightly likeable, people is not going to complain if they play an uber alpha male (like Rance) hitting on women/monstergirls or a female summoner using monsters to fuck other summoners or whatever developers can think of as long as it provides "the porn".

Unless the game is really awesome itself, like Rance, Daibancho BBA (most Alicesoft games), playing games with porn are a waste of time as people could just play some "AAA title" and then download any CG or doujin of it when they want.

 

[Rin Umiko]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

Both, and neither. Abuse either and it'll just become boring.

Personally, it's less about reward or punishment, than how you integrate it into the "game".

Recently, there's this 151 tentacles game that I like a lot, and the author did some nice integration there. You have to do indecent things to become strong (and rich) enough to win the boss battle. Failing that, and it's GOR. Now sex is not something you get at the end of the battle, it's a way to battle. Of course you have the choice to play the game conventionally, farming hours and win, or enjoy the H stuffs and get the same result.

Despite that, I don't like BF games, probably because the excuse is usually not very convincing, or it's just forced on you. If I'm going to choose sex as a mean to progress, I want that choice made by my own hand (yes, one hand).

Random rant:

Spoiler

Long long ago, I used to play game with sex for reward, until the only reward is sex. You mean I had to farm the last hours just for ONE H-scene? No way.

And then I switch to GOR. It was fun watching the girl helplessly getting raped when she screwed up. But when you have to lose to get the scene, then win to go to the next battle just to lose again. Yeah, you have to TRY to lose no matter how you look at it.

Then there's those game that the girl would go on after that, like NOTHING had happened. Now what's the purpose of raping if it doesn't break the girl?

Whoops. Sorry. Been a bit out of control there.

Again, that's just personal preference.

Not sure if it's on-topic (or if my whole post is on-topic), but there's another type of event that excites me, the sexual random encounter. Those events that just happen, out of your expectation (just as planned?), when you go to the wrong (right?) place, talk the wrong (right?) person, do the wrong (right) thing. Collecting them on purpose is a pain though.

 

[herfmat]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I think the question you need to ask prior to this one is how deeply do you want the player to empathize with their character.

Now, to extrapolate from there, I should point out, artificially simulating attachment is NOT a good way to handle character/player relations in virtually any game out there. But reading some of these, it seems more like this is the way to do it. I play with Sexlab for Skyrim, and I have an array of different dependant mods, there's the erotic adventure mods where it's a variety of scenarios your character might face that involves some amount of debauchery and often give gratification as a reward, punishment mods, which mechanically encumber your character somehow (Ensalvement, carrying parasitic larvae, or some daedric enchantment) You effectively do NOT want these mods, but it can be 'exciting' or fun for the player if it does happen (One actually subverts the death mechanic entirely, but does so by still making it unfavorable to "die"), And there's the standard, plane ol' sex mods that add an option to proposition npcs in a variety of ways.

I play with all three types with my ideal fetishes sprinkled in to taste, and I think even a game that wasn't built for this in mind, shows that all three can work together.

 

[Silvar]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I could see myself liking "reward sex" over "punishment sex", but I tend to look for a non-deterministic, emergent storytelling style of porn in my games.

As others have stated here, I think hentai games should remember that their porn is what the player is there for. I think of a non-hentai game example of where I want to traverse around a dark dungeon solving puzzles, I'd play "Legend of Grimrock". If I wanted to stick with a dungeon but have more action scenes and side-scrolling action, I might play "Rogue Legacy". I like games that can integrate these experiences into the core mechanics and aesthetics of the game. Something that I can be a part of when I turn on the game, not something I get for being a good boy or after my HP reaches 0.

Another term I heard for "game over" is "termination condition", and that's what I don't like about either one: Do you want your porn after dying, or when you defeat this boss? The "reward sex" could be more in favor of a traditional game by giving you the porn after a difficult platforming section, defeating a swarm of enemies, or completing a quest. But like "punishment sex" these games give little or no options to the player to have any agency in the sex. Most "punishment sex" has good context in why the player has little agency or control in the sex since they are being "punished". But "reward sex" is basically the softcore porn scene you can find in any current BioWare game on the last-gen consoles. The porn is just treated as a carrot on a stick, it just depends on whether you should lose or win before you get that carrot.

Somebody already mentioned Battle Fuck (BF) games, and while I don't like the name -- I kind of wish there was more games in this genre. An "Extra Credits" episode comes to mind that talked about applying combat mechanics to non-combat scenarios, with a joke in the episode of trying to apply First Person Shooter mechanics to making love in a bedroom. I think BF games are a great example of what "Extra Credits" were talking about, but with the use of turn-based RPG mechanics applied to sexual encounters. They are also non-deterministic, which is a plus in my book. Either "reward" or "punishment" sex is deterministic in their events, such as at the three second mark this orc will start to speed up its humping animation and at the six second mark, the orc will climax in your avatar. But with a BF game, you can decide to whisper some dirty talk to that orc to get it closer to climax, or concentrate on your breathing to raise your stamina and outlasting the orc. This also introduces emergent storytelling, something I love in roguelike games and any game that relies on its rules to *create* a story. For example, I'm playing "Artificial Girl 3" and I walk into the infirmary. Here I stumble upon one of the girls masturbating due to her arousal meter being high enough to trigger this condition. But she also has the lewd trait, so she is fine with my avatar (and me!) watching up close. After she gets finished, I immediately grab her from behind and she consents to me playing with her tits. Her body is still wet and glistening due to her orgasm and relief from arousal, yet she still consents to some "anal" action with my avatar after some teasing to her clit.

"Reward sex" could fit better in the traditional game development by rewarding what the player wants, but it has issues in being deterministic and lacking any input from the player in how they want their experience to turn out. "Punishment sex" has a similar issue in being deterministic, though the context of rape justifies why the player has little input in the experience. I prefer my porn in a game to have non-deterministic outcomes and emergent storytelling, where a story is created from the rules of the game.

 

[Hoyasiamica]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

games that reward with h are generally better games, but they're not games I play when I want to jerk off

 

[Someone92]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

I find both punishment sex and reward sex rather boring. I don't want to see the H-scenes AFTER I've played the game (meaning after I've won or lost) but DURING playing the game.

'Meijiroido last magic weapon' is what I consider a good example of implementing H-scenes into the gameplay; if the enemies catch you they start to molest you, and you have to wriggle out to save your skin. If you get caught too often or don't escape fast enough you orgasm and "lose"; in fact you don't lose by just orgasm once yet, but it becomes harder and harder to win.
Kariyume does something similar but it's far worse implemented. Monster Girl Quest also somewhat fits into this category because sex attacks are also used during combat, though the main course starts after being defeated.

A somewhat good example for reward sex during gameplay are some "succubus" mods for Oblivion and Skyrim. By seducing or straight out raping others you become stronger as a succubus.

 

[ngansex]

Re: punishment sex vs reward sex discussion (discussion)

when i play a game that has sex sprite contents ingame, example as :
" side scrolling go forward, if character touch the enemy, then RAPEEEE"

yes, i mean,when i play that game, i feel like i am a girl, easy to be raped by foul guys =))

this feeling just strange, and hen games should have