RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

[Tassadar]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

The only manner of dealing with high damage that I can suggest is the one that I already use, which is to make things not fight like PCs and drop 20-30 EP into every power attack. I think it's mostly alright for warriors and mages, who do less damage easily, but wielders are always the quick spurters who deal out the big numbers fast without a lot of work put into a build. Also the simple, predictable enemy fighting styles could easily help keep threat levels relatively low, but that might take more work.

Also,

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That page is going to be the official DG4 monster sheets section, since it's more reliable than keeping sheets that I fiddle with all the god damn time and uploading them as archives. The suggestions sheet is for just vague ideas you have, but anyone can make their own pages with complete stats so long as they know how to work in googledocs. The template is there to be copy-pasted for such sheets, and can be viewed but not edited by anyone other than me. When I start importing monsters there will also probably be a section for special abilities possessed only by various monsters. Please don't fuck about, I'd rather not have to mess with selective access or anything like that just because someone decides to be a stupid asshat.

 

[Aust_Nailo]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Just reading up, I may have a very minor thing to input that may or may not be very productive to the issue as a whole. Maybe a level of scalability when it comes to enemy ability and power? Tiers of enemies perhaps that adjust to the player or teams level? Unless this is designed to just stomp players like your average Rogue-Like. Just a thought.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

That is one solution indeed, and it might allow for ye solo play easily, but it would still require that I make multiple lists for what monsters are encountered based on how many players are present. I realize that this is an incredibly lazy ideal, but if I can make a single list with say, an encounter with three wolves at level one in a Temple, and have it be a fairly equally challenging fight no matter how many players are present, then that means I can use a single master list for all monster encounters.

I could not be lazy and just make more than one list, but it'd likely be limited to two lists so I don't go insane. 1 to 3 players. This has the disadvantage of not being able to be played with say, just two people who wanna play together, or even four, or more because the monster lists would need to be remade to account for the extra presence of players. With an option to play without a GM, beyond just solo, allowing say three people to play without needing a GM, it's nice to keep things simple, because remember that what attacks enemies use, and who they use them on are also determined by the dice, so it's not up to GM discretion. (I aim to make TotE easy for a GM to run, as all they have to do is make rolls and then describe what happened. Even enemy decisions are decided via dice. With this plan built in mind, it can be easily converted over to GM-less play.)

My current goal for the first temple is 100 random events per floor, with a total of 500 events. Hopefully this puts it into perspective, why I want to keep things simple

Also, since I said Events, I'll explain those...

• Events, don't drop the soap

For TotE, the distance the PC(s) will have to travel will me made long enough to reasonably have a fair chance at discovering enough of the Temple floor to be prepared for the next floor. Because there are Nine Experience Shrines you can discover, you should statistically find about Nine shrines on one level, enough so that you have a fair chance at discovering the shrine you want to spend your exp at. You also need enough experience and loot for equipment. These factors will determine how large the floors will be.

In the current alpha stages of the random build, going to a new 'room' will go through various stages of rolls. The first stage may look like this:

Stage 1: New Room (d12)

1-2: Shrine
3-6: Monsters!
7-9: Event
10: Shop
11-12: Trap

Say you roll Shrine. Then you'd be asked if you wanted to touch the shrine. if yes, then you roll from this list:

Stage 2: Shrine (d9)

1: Warrior
2: Mage
3: Spirit
4: Succubus
5: General
6: Body
7: Spirit
8: Mind
9: Flaw

Ideally, you want your main class shrine to show up. Currently, I plan a fair build of TotE. You have at least a 50% chance of succeeding the run, with improvements based on your play, knowing when to take risks and when to play it safe. (I'm sure those of you who normally play rogue-lites will understand that 50% success rate is actually extremely fair.)

The amount of rooms you will encounter before moving to the next floor will be static. This will be fluffed as the temple naturally reorienting itself as such random temples are known to do. The result of this change of inner structure causes your character to fall to the next floor, at which point more scary monsters and dangers will appear, so you'd better hope you're ready to face them!

Since I haven't explained it yet, Events are situations you encounter where you must make choices. The first choice is usually just to leave, and ignore the event. This will always give you nothing. The other choices carry rewards as well as consequences, including better chances at success if you have high enough stats to deal with the trials the events bring.

Just reading up, I may have a very minor thing to input that may or may not be very productive to the issue as a whole. Maybe a level of scalability when it comes to enemy ability and power? Tiers of enemies perhaps that adjust to the player or teams level? Unless this is designed to just stomp players like your average Rogue-Like. Just a thought.

Enemies will indeed be scaled to suit the power level of the floor they're on, which the player shall be assumed to be ready for, statistically.

So, I'll technically need to make five different lists for the enemies you can encounter. The individuals enemies won't differ much based on how many players are present, it'll mostly be how I arrange the enemies to adjust for the number of players. The enemies will be hopefully adjusted so that the PC(s) will only take so much damage on average. I have two varying plans based on how to calculate the amount of damage they'll take. One involves calculating them taking half their HP total in damage, and finding enough healing to heal out the rest, and the other involves them being calculated to lose all their HP, but finding enough healing to get it all back.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

• Magic Weapons - Collect the Whole Set

It's been on my mind ever since suggesting the idea of making something like this to Tass. DG allows for some pretty varied combinations of upgrades to otherwise normal weaponry. On top of the fact that equipment will be separated into leveled lists, there's also the matter of enchantments that can go with them. No matter how much I think on it, it seems that I cannot escape the idea of having to use MANY charts so that you can roll up a single weapon should you find one.

Roll once to determine what kind of loot you find (we find a weapon)
Roll a second time to determine what kind of weapon it is (we find a bow)
Roll a third time to determine how many enhancements we get on the weapon (three)
Sroll down a list of charts that relate to weapon upgrades, and find bow enchantments.
Roll a fourth, fifth, and sixth time to determine what enhancements it has.

That's a lot of rolling, and people may get sick of it fairly quickly. So, I have one solution to this dilemma: Pre-determined special loot. This takes away from the ability to get some really random ass loot, and adds static rewards to what you can find. This means you'd only have to roll twice. Once to figure out you find a weapon, and once more to get your special bow.

Though, Tassadar has told me he might use his java powers to make a random loot generator. We'll see.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

I would suggest doing the number of enchantments by value, not number. While there is something to be said for luck based rolls giving good gear, if someone gets a sword that has the angel feather enchantment because of a lucky roll in a dungeon full of things that rely on DR or high AV, it can break the difficulty curve a little bit. That is, however, a little bit more difficult to figure out and probably a whole lot more work, so maybe just adding tiers to the enchantments on ye chart would work if you want to make one for randomly generating new items. Alternatively, just making a stock list of enchanted weapons, armor, and shields would also be an acceptable, if slightly boring, solution.

Any loot generator that I made would probably be based at least partially on ye random loot charts, but such a tool would possibly make it easier for ye GM of this to derp up items.

Also, there is something to be said for getting items that a character can actually use, since I think the ever convenient merchant should be banned from yon Temple save for maybe a few specific points that a person needs to be really lucky to find. A mage who gets a magic bow or sword, for instance, has gained nothing, while a warrior who gets a club granting +1 damage to spells per spell level isn't going to get much use out of that enchantment. I'm not saying that a person should ONLY get whatever they're most proficient in, but rerolls for usability should be allowed, to a degree, unless players really want to go for dat hard mode.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Rather than re-rolls, my solution is simply to allow more opportunities to find what your class is looking for so that it all balances out. So, if a warrior/mage/spirit user wants something, and there's a 1/3 chance of getting what they want, then by default, I'll at the very least make it likely to find at least 3 weapons before they finish the current floor. This solution should also work for groups, as it also allows fair chance for a trinity of roles to each find what they're looking for.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

• If you're Fucked

You know you're fucked when the rolls haven't gone in your favor. An issue Tassadar brought up is the possibility of finding equipment that is purely useless to you. As I imagined many ways a run through the Temple could go wrong, I wondered if having bad rolls simply meant that was the end of your run. What if you're a warrior, and you hit the end of your time on temple level 1 without seeing a single warrior shrine? What if you didn't even see a spirit shrine? What if you enter the Level 1 boss room with all these problems? Do you just quit? C'est la vie, you lost?

The answer to that question, I think should be, "Maybe." I think that being so unlucky or just performing badly should come with some form of consequence, but flat out defeat sounds anti-climatic. I feel a different sort of loss would better suit the theme of Dark Gate, but the issue is: what? The first thing that comes to mind is surrender. If things aren't going your way, and a pack of nude weightlifters with oiled abs and massive painuses show up, perhaps offering your butt to them instead of fighting is best? Then the obvious happens: they pound your unlucky little heart out. Then what? An option other than loss would have to include some kind of penalty. The difficult question I have to ask myself is what the player can lose in order to scrape by total defeat. Or maybe total defeat is fine for everyone, who knows?

I'm leaving this thought open in the unlikely event people decide to contribute.

Edit: And I do mean PEOPLE! As in, the plural sense. I've never met Tass IRL so I don't know if he's large enough to account for two people. (Fat joke, hardy har har)

 

[Tassadar]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Oi! I'm not THAT fat! I'm just a little bit pudgy! It usually doesn't even show all that much!

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Shaddup tubby

Anyway: Due to the non-surprising amount of feedback I actually received, consider this a journal of sorts to record my thoughts to go over later for reference. It'll help with consistency and I'll probably be able to recall good ideas or correct past mistakes later. For now, I'll answer my own questions while the glorious crowd of Tassadar will amount to my only source of criticism and feedback. Not that his input isn't valuable. It helps me to figure out where I stand and solidify what is a good idea.

• If You're Fucked pt.2

So, the big question. What do you lose when you lose? I've actually thought of a few things after yesterday. For one, surrender is totally an option. If you come across a group of enemies you can't handle, or don't want to risk handling cuz you don't want to lose HP and EP or any other resources you might have, then surrender should be one of your first options. That and running away. I also believe you might be able to bribe your way out of a fight. If so, I'll have enemies be labeled with a tag that determines whether they can be bribed or not, and with what. This means that as an encounter begins, the player will be given indicators as to what the enemy would accept as a bribe.

All that being said, I'll break down each option to take and what each implies.

~Surrender

For whatever reason you choose, when you surrender to an enemy or group of enemies, there are multiple things I have in mind for what can happen. I plan for TotE to love its dice, so surrender won't always mean rape. There'll even be a chance that the enemy will refuse your surrender. All that will be determined on a random roll before the consequences take place. So, how about some other penalties?

Rape: In character, it sucks to get raped (maybe, unless you're weird), but mechanically it won't hurt you that much. Penalties involved here depend on a few future decisions, but most importantly, you'd be losing time. You only have so much time on each level within the temple, and the first penalty here is that the enemies who choose to rape you will capture you. As you're made prisoner, you can take corruption (which can lead to a game over depending on how I finalize the game), and for every failed attempt you make to escape, you will lose more time while the enemy turns you into a breeding factory. You can get lucky and escape very early and lose a very minimal amount of time, which should make surrendering a valid option, If You're Fucked.

N***a Stole My Bike: Not everyone wants to bake their sausage in your oven. Some people are just in it for the money. So if you surrender in this case, it'll basically amount to the worst possible result that Bribery can have. If the dice decide the enemy steals 100 denarii worth of goods from you, then they will go down your inventory, from top to bottom, taking your shit until the worth of the goods they've stolen goes over the amount they're after, leaving the rest should you not have been completely robbed.
~But this puts people like spirit users and mages in a good spot, doesn't it? They can go without having lots of cool stuff. So what happens when you turn up short? They take 'you' instead. The result end up being similar to the rape scenario. Your shit is stolen, and they make you earn their money through slavery. Your duties may include washing their bodies with your own, dancing for their amusement, and of course sex. (For the non-ero version if I ever decide to make it, they'll just have you do normal slave things.) You will be forced into earning a random amount of Denarii every turn. You can also attempt to escape, but you won't earn any denarii. They'll also spank you for being a naughty slave :3.

Results that don't end in capture: A few random, small things can happen. Including your foe throwing up their arms and saying, "Wow, I thought YOU were evil!" and then going on their way without a word, or even giving you assistance. But the chances of these things happening will be fairly small and not to be relied on. They're only to allow miracles to happen in the case of you ending up in a bad spot. That's not to say there won't be equally terrible things that can happen either. All in all, losing to a group of enemies, I've decided, will (almost) never result in total defeat. The only time you can lose is during a boss fight, of which there are five in total in every temple.

No Barter or Surrender!: Surrendering is an option because it gives you a second chance. If you lose flat out to a group of enemies, you are raped, robbed, and captured for a pre-determined amount of time. No escapes until your time is up. You will also lose a certain amount of exp based on the level you're on. If you don't have the exp to lose, you will need to forfeit a talent to get the exp you need to lose. The talent can be of your choosing.

Speaking of Barter: Bribing will be pretty simple. When you ask an enemy what they could want, the tribute they ask for can be either severe or light. A pack of talking wolves might want ten denarii because you spilled some syrup on them accidentally. The oiled up weight lifters might want 500 denarii worth of stuff in order to fund their gym. It'll be a random value purely in denarii with a possible 'favorite'. Favorite items are things that the group of enemies really want for one reason or another. If they want a bow, or 500 denarii, you can give them your shittiest bow and get away for free. You'll even get experience for it! Other than that, bribing isn't that complicated.

~Final Note

Before you go nuts about how horrible all of this sounds, keep in mind that the theme of today's discussion was "Losing." In TotE, I plan on losing not resulting in insta-loss. Instead, as a theme I deem fitting of Dark Gate, you lose by slowly being withered down until you can't fight anymore, at which point you become dinner, or a slave for the rest of your days. Should times be grim, I find that being surrounded in despair and doubt with the tiniest glimmer of hope has more personality than a simple GAME OVER declaration. I hope to have losses in TotE to truly feel like you were completely and utterly defeated before you brew up another adventurer to go and lose again!

 

[Aust_Nailo]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Not gonna lie, the surrender system is something I'm surprised hasn't been attempted before. Especially with random probability deciding the end result. I can see this actually being a bigger loss of stuff then just a regular defeat. Also, minor tangent: Say you're fighting someone or a group of someones, and you are downright curb-stomping them. Would they perhaps have the same options or would they all be do or die sorta foes? Would be interesting to see a player basically have a caravan of prisoners or a crap ton of loot that they steal off people or even their own slaves. Finally turn things around on the enemy. I figured something like this wouldn't be one sided but I though I'd ask anyway.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Not gonna lie, the surrender system is something I'm surprised hasn't been attempted before. Especially with random probability deciding the end result. I can see this actually being a bigger loss of stuff then just a regular defeat. Also, minor tangent: Say you're fighting someone or a group of someones, and you are downright curb-stomping them. Would they perhaps have the same options or would they all be do or die sorta foes? Would be interesting to see a player basically have a caravan of prisoners or a crap ton of loot that they steal off people or even their own slaves. Finally turn things around on the enemy. I figured something like this wouldn't be one sided but I though I'd ask anyway.

It's a good idea, but you're already getting something out of enemies, namely exp and denarii. Their gear is assumed to be worse than yours, and sold automatically in order to get the denarii rewards. Rusted, ruined, or about to break. The gear I'd hand out would be pretty worthless one way or another, just from mooks, so I just translate it immediately to dosh, which I imagine people will enjoy having a lot more than a rusty sword that will break if swung three more times

As for slaves, sure. They won't be useful outside of fluff, but you could defeat your enemies, and decide not to kill them with your final blow. It's all the same mechanically, but taking some slaves for RP purposes is perfectly fine. You get all the same stuff regardless, and the only thing you aren't allowed to do is try to make them fight for you, because that opens the doors for a lot of shenanigans and fixes I'd have to make to balancing, and DG will already prove hard to balance for this game type. So, I don't want to give myself too much of a headache .

 

[Aust_Nailo]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

I sorta figured with the gear and junk, but whose to say a baddie couldn't be carrying a special piece of loot or something. If Diablo and Dungeon Siege taught me anything, it's that random mooks can still have good shit. But I guess that's for the GM/dice to decide. And as far as slaves goes, that's just fine. RP purposes are potentially limitless and some players can finally punish people. Not gonna name names. Cause that would be silly.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Must MIND SLAVE yon slaves into fighting for you via Dominate or Enthrall, just to make things more difficult for MAF.

Also, ye "surrender" system wasn't in regular DG purely because those sorts of situations were handled by the roleplaying rather than needing explicit spelling out. Doing the latter is helpful to clarify in yon rogue-like since it opens up more options in an obvious manner.

Also also, it is important to note that some enemies will be do-or-die and some will be willing to negotiate or surrender, at least if encountered in their natural state. An orc warrior can be negotiated with, but if you fight him he'll fight to the death. A human slaver would try to avoid a tough opponent, because he makes no money if he is dead. An uncorrupted wolf will defend itself but prefer to avoid contact with dangerous prey unless it's starving. A demon will prefer to coerce a person who looks dangerous rather than fight them. A grabber or a hunter is going to fight to the death, but the latter might try to retreat and set up an ambush if it gets outmatched.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Must MIND SLAVE yon slaves into fighting for you via Dominate or Enthrall, just to make things more difficult for MAF.

Also, ye "surrender" system wasn't in regular DG purely because those sorts of situations were handled by the roleplaying rather than needing explicit spelling out. Doing the latter is helpful to clarify in yon rogue-like since it opens up more options in an obvious manner.

Also also, it is important to note that some enemies will be do-or-die and some will be willing to negotiate or surrender, at least if encountered in their natural state. An orc warrior can be negotiated with, but if you fight him he'll fight to the death. A human slaver would try to avoid a tough opponent, because he makes no money if he is dead. An uncorrupted wolf will defend itself but prefer to avoid contact with dangerous prey unless it's starving. A demon will prefer to coerce a person who looks dangerous rather than fight them. A grabber or a hunter is going to fight to the death, but the latter might try to retreat and set up an ambush if it gets outmatched.

For almost all enemy types, I'll add a little bit of fluff for each encounter so it at least makes sense. I don't recall ever seeing a wolf capable of spirit powers or magic in regular DG, but because of the awesome randomness of TotE, I aim to make them possible. So, for TotE, you are likely to fight things you have never fought before :3

Although Given I'm fighting for this to be apart of Lore so it's slightly more than just a derpy game, I'm sure many things I'll want to add will be controversial and will make Tass want to strangle me.

 

[Tassadar]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Given the fluff we've agreed upon, of a temple where a daemon is nerfing everyone down regardless of their relative power level, it wouldn't be that hard to have things make sense within the lore.

 

[Aust_Nailo]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

So wait...the randomness even applies to the monsters as well? My goodness, it's growing more strange by the second. The idea of random animals using magic actually frightens me. Sorta like children using magic. Nothing that small should have access to that sort of power.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

Indeed, TotE will be full of randomness. The consistent features of the game will be limited but exist enough to tell you all you need to know. Which leads me to create this little summary.

• What ISN'T Random?

~There will always be a boss at the end of each floor.

You can always expect to fight some tough fellow at the end of a floor. They are the gate keepers that serve the purpose of testing you to see if you're ready to go to the next floor. Though, the bosses themselves will also be a little random, but with only a handful of variants. You're more likely to see repeats of bosses, but they will be random enough that you won't be able to form a strict plan against them. Though you can still of course get lucky with the right set up. I plan for only a few bosses because they'll actually be important to the 'story' as it were that the Temple has. They'll all have names, and a small backstory that the player will be told upon encountering them. For instance, the first boss I have planned for Floor 1 of the Human Temple is Nathan Senjin from the amazon, born from a male Amazonian and female Badarian. He's the Warrior variant that the player can encounter. I'll put his story I've written up in spoiler for those who want to read it.

Nathan Senjin:

Spoiler

Backstory: Nathan Senjin is a Warrior born from a Badarian mother and Amazonian father. The relationship of his parents began in Badaria, where the people of his mother's town discovered she was pregnant, and who the father was, forcing her to escape with the man she loved back into the Amazon where it was arguably safer. After Nathan was born, he was given a warrior's training from his father, who was rather skilled himself. He grew up in his father's tribe and despite his connections to Badaria, was welcomed as one of them.

After Nathan had become an adult, he was standing on guard duty in place of his father who was out hunting at the time when a figure wearing black armor with a hood to hide his features approached the town, threatening its people with the worst unless the town's strongest warrior stepped forth. Being the strongest available at the time, Nathan stepped forward. The hooded figure announced his terms: "Win and I'll leave you in peace, Lose and you alone shall serve me till the end of your days."

Nathan accepted, and lost. Honorable as he was, he vanished from his people along with the black figure. He now protects his new Lord's lair and prison, given immortality through the corruption so that his servitude will never end until he is killed.

Introduction (What the player will be greeted with upon encountering him): A noble looking amazonian warrior with green armor, equipped with shield and sword, blocks your path. "I will kill you painlessly, so as to spare you from the worse fates of this place. I ask that you give me that same respect."

~You will always have a set amount of time on each floor.

The time will be adjusted so that you should have a fair chance of acquiring enough resources to fight the boss and reach the next floor. It's a mad dash to acquire exp and denarii so that you can tackle what lies ahead, while the events you face, in all their random glory, will test to see just how much you're willing to risk. Some events MAY cause insta-loss, but they will be extremely obvious and come with their own warnings. Events will offer choices, with the insta-loss choice being the most extreme with a huge reward should you survive it. If you don't want to risk it, there will be other options to solve the event that will be far less costly. So if insta-loss scares you, you needn't worry. Let other fools take that chance :3 (In case you're wondering, such an event would be like seeing a massive treasure chest over a death/tentacle pit. Your choices can include jumping over the pit(chance for instaloss), finding a secret entrance, or finding a way to make a bridge. The latter two options have no risk of insta-loss.)

I digress, I started talking about events instead of the topic. But there's not much more to say. You will always have a set amount of time, equal on each floor, before you face the unknown boss. At this point, I'm unsure whether you will be healed before the boss (likely not), but you will be healed after defeating the boss, for sure. They're aimed to be tough, so they'll likely do enough damage to you. Either way, you'll know how much time you have, which may help with strategy and what kind of risks you want to take.

~The Final Boss will always be the same

They are the Elder. They can't be anyone else. The last boss of a Temple will throw everything at you. They'll test you against all forms of combat. They'll be proficient in spirit powers, mage powers, Warrior abilities, and Succubus talents. You'll be hit with everything, but luckily you'll have some warning so you can bring out the right stuff or equipment. By warning I mean the boss will go through phases. Before each phase, you'll have time to react and equip yourself appropriately. There's no getting lucky for the Final Boss (well, maybe a little), so your Exp and dosh should go towards planning for the ultimate fight.

Also of note, formations are important in this game. They help determine what AoE spells and the like can hit you, as well as what supportive skills and powers actually work on the group. Bunching up together helps for a Warrior protecting others with their shield, but also makes everyone vulnerable to a huge explosion. If your group (should you have one) discovers the enemy first, and someone perceptive knows what kind of abilities the enemy are using, then you can quickly readjust your formation so that you're less weak to their AoE. Teamwork is important

~Character Creation

This is in the air, but currently, I'm allowing Players to manually choose their talents and what not. I may allow an extra option to randomize your talents and Class, in which case, choosing to do that will give you an extra talent for free. I'm very iffy on this plan so far, so this is subject to change.

~~~~~

That's all that I can think of that isn't random, for now.

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

My Latest ponderings

• Solo versus Group Play

I realized when I said it a long time ago, that just giving a solo player more protection against damage wouldn't quite make them as prepared as a group. Since many problems the players will face in the dungeon can be solved by having appropriate stats or talents, that means that a group will be much better off than someone going solo. Having someone who can beat up monsters, someone who can spot things, and another person who can stealth things will solve a lot of your problems. Someone playing alone can't reliably do that.

So here's my current solution. Whenever such problems come along that require such rolls, all players roll against it, those who fail suffer the consequences. During an enemy ambush, the only perceptive person is the only one to react and get their turn. The rest stand around unaware and acquire hugs of the rape variety.

For example, Tassadar may remember that Satyr event I spoke about some time ago. In that event, the PC(s) are asked by a Satyr for some intimate company. The players have four options:

A: Hesitantly offer handsies. (Low Risk/Reward)
B: Blow the Satyr (Moderate Risk/Reward)
C: Excitedly offer the Satyr your butt (High Risk/Reward)
D: Refuse and leave. (Nothing happens)

This is pretty straightforward for a solo character, but what of a group? The first thing I'd expect a group to do is have one person be bait for something bad to happen, while the others remain behind to mitigate the effect. Thusly this event is biased towards a group. An easy way to fix this is to force the group as a whole to decide on which option to pick together, and embrace the consequences together. If two PC's decide to Refuse and the third picks "C", then nothing happens.

As for fluff, it can be described in an albeit silly way: "It seems that the Satyr is unable to cope with rejection. Being refused by the two other women hurt his self-esteem. No longer in the mood, he sulks away sadly."

All is well, right? Solves everything, we're done here.

Cept, we're not. ;3;

You see, the issue with THIS is that my main method of monitoring PC progress and well-being, a Health%, is affected. Choosing an event that leads to damage means EVERYONE gets hurt. For example, if I balance an event to deal (50% expected HP) damage upon the event going terribly wrong, then EACH PC of the 3 take the 50% damage balanced for the solo player. The end result ruins my attempts to balance. The solo player will have 50% HP remaining, while the total HP remaining of the trio will be likely 0% collectively. If that doesn't make sense, recall that a solo player has natural Damage Resistance currently for the sake of balance.

My solution to this problem, ignore the Damage Resistance of the PC during traps and events. If a trap is meant to do 25 damage, it does 25 to everyone no matter how many players are present. This means that the expected HP values of both Solo and Group end up roughly the same. A Solo PC with 50 health ends up at 25/50. A group of PC's with a collective health of 150 end up at 75/150. It all works out!

 

[Mamono Assault Force]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

This isn't an update, though you might consider to be, sorta. You could use it in the future should anyone decide to make their own Temples.

Template for Events: With explanations

Spoiler

Event #: Name of Event

Spoiler

Introduction: What the PC's encounter

Extra (Condition:?): An addition to the Introduction provided a PC satisfies one of the conditions labeled, usually a mutation. This addition is entirely fluff, but can also hint at possible bonuses to choices.

~~~~~~
Choices: By default, choices should include an option to leave for no gain or loss unless the event doesn't allow a PC to simply walk away. Remember that this is an event, not an enemy encounter (Not that anyone a PC encounters can't be evil or threatening). Also, plenty of choices should be provided. Three or four is acceptable, but no more than five. Choices may also branch into separate choice branches.
~~~~~~

Choice A: A standard choice

Spoiler

Roll 1d6

1-3

Spoiler

A huge bag of dosh hits your face

4-6

Spoiler

You are assaulted by deeks. You are also become ugly

Choice B: A more risky choice that also has a special condition

Spoiler

Roll 1d6
Special: Large Breasts=Result 1-2

1-2

Spoiler

A lunatic begins worshiping your breasts - follower get

3-6

Spoiler

You are kicked out of the Temple for having a small chest.

Choice C: A branching choice. Can allow for cleverly disguised events (provided there's a GM), so that the PC doesn't know which event # they've found.

Spoiler

Choice C-1: Take a risk

Choice C-2: Fuck this I'm scared

Choice D: Obligatory Leave Option

Spoiler

Nothing Happens as you leave. You are also a pussy.

 

[Aust_Nailo]

Re: RJ's DG4-Temple of the Elders (Ponderings and plans)

So hear me out on this one, cause it may sound crazy. While looking at the example you provided about part members spotting people where most fail save for one, I sorta thought "Well, why couldn't the one that succeeded warn the others?" Maybe this could be done by giving them a slight bonus in reaction and maybe have a less severe penalty depending on how big of a failure is left? I know that might involve making more situations and variables and what not. But maybe it could be mitigated by introducing something along the line of Team Work abilities or skills. Stuff that would allow a teammate to say, spot danger and shove one party member out of the way, thus saving them from danger? Mull that over and let me know if that inspires ye.