RPG RPG Maker [うさぎめしや / usabox] MaiDenSnow Eve / MaiDenSnow Eve ～さる前夜祭～ (RE115762, RJ115762)

[lazycat]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

I see.
I am busy, sleepy and "loose and non native english speaker".
So translate it, please.

知っての通り、解析・改変・再配布を禁止している。
そしてそれを知った上で、今ここでそれらが行われている。

であれば、それを止めろと言ったところで止めるだろうか？

禁止されている行為を平然と行うモラルの持ち主に対して、
良識ある当然の要求をすることは、(必要性や法的な要因が無い限り)
無意味であるように思える。

また、解析及び改変を独力で行ったのであれば、
“さしあたってそれらしいゲーム”へと改変したことは評価したい。
これは、無許可である事に関連するマイナスとは一切無関係に
その理解や情熱に対しての正当な評価として。
(もっとも、以前の投稿で触れたように、“ラフで最適化されていない”
という点に関しては、自分自身が発表した未熟なデザインのゲーム
であるかの様に羞恥と遺憾を覚える。)

この無断改造品が、無断改造品であると知らない人々の手に渡る。
あるいは、何らかの利益を得るために利用される。
そういった好ましくない利用をされない限り、
また、諸兄がOTAKU的な感覚で、純粋にその改造品を求め愛し、
その改造品がオリジナル及び著者に対して有害でないと考え、
そのように行動するなら、
これを禁止するという“当然の主張”をする“必要性”は
“今のところ無い”と言える。

あくまで非公式に。

If you busy, sleepy or "want not translate", someday i'll translate it.

私は日本人じゃないし、頑張らないな人し、だから　ちょっとだけ翻訳します。 ~ ~　何か間違ったらごめんなさい。

So, google fu + personal interpretation or the first few lines (which I believe is the author's primary point in that last post)
:
As some of you may know, I have forbid redistribution, mod, or data mining of the game.
Then I heard that's being done here.

So if I ask you to stop that, will you stop it please?





@うさぎめしやさん:　この場所に日本語が分かる人はあまりないだから、禁止してと言ったのは多分全然知りませんでした。

 

[habisain]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

That's fine. That is why I asked permission before starting anything. If you change your mind, please let me know. If not, then I will not do anything to your game.

Everyone else: please respect the authors wishes and don't release any mods etc. for this game.

 

[ModEater]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

OK. I agree to delete "MOD".
but, not agree to delete "kill the unti-mod script" and "How to do it" for your game.
I hate too much an heavy protected game. Your game is worst one I met so far. It is why I made mod for this game.
Also some of western people can't play early demo by your damn game protection.
Do you have a right to prohibit the modifyring game for personal purposes?
Is it make you mad?
If you or someone not allow that, BANG me.
Also you should know "use convertible, legacy data for several game is have a risk".

 

[comradered]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

It's amazing how fast something goes down the drain with just one guy who can't take "No." for an answer.

Can we just step back and look at it properly? I mean, seriously?

 

[ModEater]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

I promised to who help my modding. He help to fixing some hard part of issues on condition that "If original author say NO for modding, then cancel mod".
Fulfill his promises by my moral.
Not for author. For modders promise.

 

[Mistula]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

As a western game dev I can understand someone not wanting their work modded, at the same time I am one of the people that can't run the game because it is so heavily protected.

But.

I have 2 grips about the authors stand and I wish to put it out as gently and respectfully as I can.
#1. This is the day and age of the internet. Just like music and videos, any form of electronic art WILL be changed or altered, just like songs being remixed, just like people editing video. While one can try to fight this over and over again it's a losing battle and one that has taken many wonderful sites off the internet in a desperate attempt to control the sea. Not possible, Save your strength and pick your battles, as this one you will lose in the end, if not right now in the future you will find yourself fighting a never ending flow. Make your stand by saying "I do not approve of mod" And accept what the forum rules will help you with. But if you are burning out on this issue just like fezz 2. You will just burn out.

#2. I can't help to point out that the author did make this game from a game maker engine. He did not design or create the engine and while we as a society can respect an authors right to free speech and integrity of his work, his work is simply a copy of someone elses with a tool he did not create. It's not the same as having made the program from the ground up, or the having heavily altered the existing engine. So it's kind hard to say all work is yours. All rpgmaker games are made with rpgmaker.

But like I said... It's something I can respect but I think refusing to even allow someone to help the game to be made more accessible is silly. It is your right. But it is very silly. reminds me of the french aristocracy... Refusing the lower people to have access to simple things like cake and the right to hear music preformed in concert halls. While it is your right, don't be shocked the masses revolt.

Again, I respect the author from the youtube videos of the game it looks fun and very interactive, with cool systems... to bad I can't even get it to load because of the security on it.

 

[alcaster42]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

Why not a collaboration?

Probably can fix bugs better.
Better English translation (means more buyers).
More chance to work on sprites/pics.

Only issue that ever kills collaboration is, "how much money am I getting?"

 

[habisain]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

So... to anyone who says this is "Just another RPGMaker game" in future:

As far as I can tell, pretty much all of the game scripts are custom, and from ramble rabbit. The game has then been converted from the VX engine to the VX Ace engine - not something possible with the official tools. At this stage, RPGMaker is only providing relatively basic functionality (e.g. blit'ing, music, input), which would be what you'd get from any other framework like Unity. So this is certainly no ordinary RPGMaker game.

Incidentally, for the past several revisions, I haven't had any trouble with the protection code. But I have no reason to believe that the circumvention I detailed here would not work.

And on collaboration to do a translation... it's kinda what I suggested, really, only I'd do it for free. However, the response is a no, and I'll respect that.

 

[ramble_rabbit]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

OK. I agree to delete "MOD".

Your work will be missed.

Also some of western people can't play early demo by your damn game protection.

That's my mistake.
But, when i find that, i repaired "mistaken methods" immediately.
If you can report it, and i can repair it more faster.
(Note.
Today, the "mistaken methods" was replaced to references to GMT.
I think it'll works in all country and regions.)

Originally Posted by ModEater View Post
Do you have a right to prohibit the modifyring game for personal purposes?

You said right, partially.

By the way, if you say so.
Why you upload the "modified game for personal purposes"?


I am regret.
I showed respect to "your work", but you responded by other thing me.

 

[OfficerTJHooker]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

。。。
知っての通り、解析・改変・再配布を禁止している。。。

うさぎめしやさんへ

私の日本語はすごく下手ですけど，それにしてもあなたに連絡したいんです。

まずは，MaidenSnowEveはとても良いゲームと思います。質は悪くない，楽ししい，それにこのゲームは始めて見ただから，十分興味がある。もっと自分の作品で信じてください。ですので，あなたの願いを尊重します。

このフォーラムの皆さんは同じことを考えっている分かりませんが，せめてはこのフォーラムに”解析・改変・再配布を禁止している”のは出来います，アドミンの力で。

まあ，シリアスな話は苦手だから，これは以上です。このゲーム，次のゲームも，がんばってください。


Just as habisain stated, in light of the of the author's wishes, we'll stop distributing mods to the game. What exactly constitutes as a mod isn't clearly defined (at least to the extent of my knowledge), but use your common sense when it comes down the wire.

In addition, we'll also be prohibiting any distributions of said mods for this game in the forums. I don't think we'll need to take down what's already existing, but if you need for some reason to get at the game's code, do it elsewhere.

Also to respond to what Mistula stated...

#2. I can't help to point out that the author did make this game from a game maker engine.

The game's base is from a game maker engine, but that was presumably licensed to him, because you have to pay to actually use their programs. Therefore, he's perfectly entitled to make any changes as he wills, and sells a product based off of those changes.

#1. This is the day and age of the internet.

You're right. I agree with you, and I don't think the author is naive enough to believe that this game isn't going to get modded in the dark corners of the internet somewhere. However, we're not that 'dark corner' of the internet. We're here to talk about hentai games (and download them too), but beyond that, we're here to encourage the development of them, so we get even more and better games to play.

If it's in our power to respect his wishes, why shouldn't we do it? It's not easy making a game like this, believe me, I've tried and failed miserably a few times.

As for the issues with the DRM, I'm sure the developer's heard of it as well, which may be the reason why the later versions haven't had the issues of 2HP, etc. That's the sticks with DRM, and I won't argue whether it's justified or not. Regardless, I am almost certain he's working on something that will be able to be distributed on every person's machine without running into nasty errors.

 

[Wessex]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

Am I the only one who freezes out almost all the time when I kill a raven?

Okay. This game is unplayable. I freeze out every time with...

*Error - 2013-09-27 17:12:17 (Friday)
Exception : NoMethodError
undefined method `private_history' for #<Game_Actor:0xda450e4>
trace:
["( Game_Interpreter )：667:in `eval'", "( Game_Interpreter )：667:in `eval'", "( Game_Interpreter )：667:in `command_111'", "( Game_Interpreter )：1970:in `execute_command'", "( ★Stage_Gimmic )：62:in `execute_command'", "( Game_Interpreter )：139:in `block in update'", "( Game_Interpreter )：101:in `loop'", "( Game_Interpreter )：101:in `update'", "( Game_Interpreter )：106:in `block in update'", "( Game_Interpreter )：101:in `loop'", "( Game_Interpreter )：101:in `update'", "( Game_Interpreter )：106:in `block in update'", "( Game_Interpreter )：101:in `loop'", "( Game_Interpreter )：101:in `update'", "( ks_無駄メソッドつぶし )：27:in `update_interpreter'", "( ks_無駄メソッドつぶし )：15:in `update'", "( ksR_ターンコントローラ )：815:in `graphic_update'", "( ▲ksRih_alias )：228:in `graphic_update'", "( Ks_Scene_InjectionUI_local )：185:in `graphic_update'", "( ksR_ターンコントローラ )：773:in `update'", "( Scene_Shop(修理･回収) )：64:in `update'", "( Scene_Base )：72:in `main'", "( SceneManager )：25:in `run'", "( SceneManager )：171:in `run'", "( ●# WF-RGSS Scripts main )：107:in `block in <main>'", ":1:in `block in rgss_main'", ":1:in `loop'", ":1:in `rgss_main'", "( ●# WF-RGSS Scripts main )：107:in `<main>'", "ruby:in `eval'"]

edit.: Is the dlsite demo even up to date?

 

[habisain]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

The DLSite version is pretty hopelessly out of date, I believe. Go to

You must be registered to see the links

and download the latest version from there. Password is usabox

 

[Stiltzkinator]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

I guess this game is a prime example (among countless others, of course) of language barrier to the max.

(apologies for using English; I can read Japanese, but cannot write in Japanese)

I know what you mean, habisain. I can write it, but it's a pain-staking process, and native speakers tell me that I'm using too much 'brute force'. There's a particular project that I was trying to negotiate a full translation for, but our discussion broke down on account of too many of the finer details being lost in translation. Google translation is one thing, but there are times when even the best textbooks and years of formal education aren't enough to make it work. On the internet, at least, both Japanese and English are used very casually, which makes them considerably more difficult to translate.

The only real way we're going to start building bridges between the two languages is to have that bridge be a person who is fully comfortable with both languages. We have an increasing number of people who are able to put their knowledge to use with translations, and that's great, but I think we need to start conversing with the developers in a manner where both sides are understood, which takes much more than a one-way translation into one's native language.

 

[lazycat]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

I guess this game is a prime example (among countless others, of course) of language barrier to the max.



I know what you mean, habisain. I can write it, but it's a pain-staking process, and native speakers tell me that I'm using too much 'brute force'. There's a particular project that I was trying to negotiate a full translation for, but our discussion broke down on account of too many of the finer details being lost in translation. Google translation is one thing, but there are times when even the best textbooks and years of formal education aren't enough to make it work. On the internet, at least, both Japanese and English are used very casually, which makes them considerably more difficult to translate.

The only real way we're going to start building bridges between the two languages is to have that bridge be a person who is fully comfortable with both languages. We have an increasing number of people who are able to put their knowledge to use with translations, and that's great, but I think we need to start conversing with the developers in a manner where both sides are understood, which takes much more than a one-way translation into one's native language.

Even if you're comfortable with both languages, there's something that just will NOT translate over, such as word puns (a few work thankfully, but most not going to happen), tongue twisters or certain references where even if you do a transliteral port of it people still won't understand due to cultural difference and if you try to fit it into similar reference then you might ends up shooting yourself in the foot for screwing the reference's importance down the line of story.

 

[Stiltzkinator]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

Even if you're comfortable with both languages, there's something that just will NOT translate over, such as word puns (a few work thankfully, but most not going to happen), tongue twisters or certain references where even if you do a transliteral port of it people still won't understand due to cultural difference and if you try to fit it into similar reference then you might ends up shooting yourself in the foot for screwing the reference's importance down the line of story.

This is all quite true, but again, I don't mean for the usual sort of translation purposes. I think we could improve relations between Japanese and English speaking audiences, as well as between developers and foreign consumers (going both ways across the previous gap), if we start establishing a solid communication between them.

It's one thing to be able to read and adapt another language into one you know very well, even for others to enjoy. But it's hard to go the other way with it.

Granted, this is not a simple matter to just go and solve right away. It's just that after seeing the breakdown of the discussions on this thread and others, I can't help but be reminded of how limited we are by a simple lack of understanding in some cases.

 

[habisain]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

There's also another big thing, I think, in this kind of problem: Piracy. Simply put, non-Japanese people are not exactly known for buying these games. Now there may be some semi-legitimate reasons for this (like credit cards not working on DLSite, etc), but it's still a problem.

This should then be coupled with the fact that up until now, any English translation project has automatically meant piracy - part of the reason for me making RPGMaker Trans is to enable translation projects that aren't piracy.

However, bottom line is this: as a whole, we don't have the best reputation with Japanese H-game creators.

 

[Stiltzkinator]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

There's also another big thing, I think, in this kind of problem: Piracy. Simply put, non-Japanese people are not exactly known for buying these games. Now there may be some semi-legitimate reasons for this (like credit cards not working on DLSite, etc), but it's still a problem.

This should then be coupled with the fact that up until now, any English translation project has automatically meant piracy - part of the reason for me making RPGMaker Trans is to enable translation projects that aren't piracy.

However, bottom line is this: as a whole, we don't have the best reputation with Japanese H-game creators.

I fully agree with what you are saying, and it's part of why I wish we could have some kind of dialogue between the two groups. With better options for consumers to purchase products (the oft-cited problems with using credit cards on DLsite could maybe be averted if we had a more domestic option), and possibly a better sales resource for the developers (DLsite takes a good sized portion, which drives prices up a bit in some cases).

With good translations done in a timely manner, legitimate sales of these types of games could go up considerably. It's hard to convince someone to pay for a game that isn't in their native language (or one with a less than ideal translation quality).

Having more 'official' channels to work with should help discourage unwanted practices (like in this case, modding) as well. Or even encourage it when applicable (for example, imagine more Monster Girl Quest mods in native english). The language barrier here is a difficult one to work with, but if we ever overcome it, I think there's a lot of good things waiting to happen.

As it is, games such as this one, Maidensnow Eve, are too much work to be fun. My initial trial of this game wasn't exactly smooth, and I just don't have the patience (or the time, presently) to sit down and make it work, and now that the developer has asked for no mods to be made, it makes translations trickier.

 

[OfficerTJHooker]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

Here's some food for thought.

Most Japanese game-makers are making games for their native country, and for a specific audience (ie. Japanese people). The game language/UI is in JP, the site it's hosted on is in JP, and even the subtle nuances in game are for JP people (like something a person who doesn't live in Japan would not pick up on, despite knowing the language). Therefore, for all intents and purposes, their products are for Japanese people. Foreigners pirating these games? Well, it's a deal, but not an enormous deal. Why? Because I'm betting most of these developers aren't expecting revenue from our demographic. Like Stiltz stated, it takes a great deal of convincing to persuade someone to drop around $20 on a product that isn't in their language.

Now there are some developers (very few) that are catering to this foreign scene. The most obvious examples are those that have translated their game and put it on Dlsite English, which a lot of people on these forums have attested to purchasing successfully from. And frankly, it just feels more comfortable playing a game in a language you truly understand.

Don't get me wrong, blatant piracy isn't a good thing and it's no doubt rampant. But it's not as if we're taking money out of the developer's purse every time we download a JP game. Some of the onus is on these game developers to see if they want to expand into the English-speaking market; which once again to informally quote Stiltz, can be achieved with proper communication channels. I am frankly all for this, since I believe it'll be a good thing for both sides. Sales will no doubt increase if these types of games do get out.

 

[Wessex]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

Turning the topic toward more lighter direction. I think I read somewhere but maybe it was just a hallucination since I couldn't find it that he has announced a new release date.

So if I wasn't just hallucinating when is this release date?

 

[habisain]

Re: MaiDenSnow Eve

@Wessex: I believe (but am not certain of, due to only doing a rough translation) that ramble rambit announced on the twitter feed that an event incomplete version would be released soon. I don't think any specific date was announced.

@OfficerTJHooker: If you believe that translating a game will just see if pirated more, then why would you bother? That's the problem with the Japanese perception of the foreign market. Whilst translating the game probably would see more legit sales, the perception is that the massive increase in piracy would render them moot.