SIM [BlueWinds] BrothelS.im 2

[BlueWinds]

Good evening ladies, gentlemen, those in between and those identifying as neither. I would like to direct your attention to demo_brothels_im, a new game I'm developing. It's built on the ashes of a Sim Brothel clone, but I'm taking the core concept, gutting it, and trying something more adventerous. Lots of text and retaining the core element of resource management, but very little micromanagement.

The demo is still in the early stages - not a lot of content yet - but hopefully it's enough to whet your appetite for more. Because I'm trying to fund the development (offbeatr_com/project/brothels-im-2-23499551833). The game will be free to play - if it gets made at all.

In BrothelS.im 2, you take on the role of a brothel owner trying to make his or her way in the fantastic city of Vailia, dealing with troubles both mundane (keeping your girls happy, dealing with troublesome customers and making enough money to keep yourself out of prison) and fantastic (demonically-posessed dildos, lust-powered sorceries threatening to run out of contol, and a world-spanning organization that you, and maybe only you, can confront). Of course, that's just a distraction - your real goal is to fuck beautiful men and women (depending on how you swing) while becoming fabulously wealthy.

Why you might contribute:

• Because you want to see an adult game written by a professional developer, and you think it's time the genera moved beyond ugly flash and interfaces peeking in from the 90s.
• Because you think Meghan is cute, you want to know more about the organization chasing you, and you'd like to meet, hire and fuck Jessie, the ghost haunting the Onsen.
• You want more content! Each additional dollar will give me more time to work on the game instead of my day-job, meaning more girls, more events, more erotic scenes.
• Because you want a say in what the game looks like, early access to content before it goes live, or you want your name to appear in Vailia - and let's face it, who wouldn't want to be a citizen in such a wonderful city?

 

[demongod]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

so in other words what your saying is don't even bother at the moment cause they haven't even released a demo yet correct

 

[Sonatafox]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

so in other words what your saying is don't even bother at the moment cause they haven't even released a demo yet correct

Well, if you actually went to the offbeatr project, you would have found that there is a demo to be found here:

You must be registered to see the links

I'm still looking into it, I'll give my opinion in a bit or so.

Edit: Not really much to say about it now. All I was able to do so far was buy the onsen, clean it up, and pretty much nothing else other than go to the brothel and resting constantly. With nothing to do, and no real good example of what to expect, I'm not sure how i feel about this project, especially for twelve grand as a minimum.

 

[Rystel]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Well, if you actually went to the offbeatr project, you would have found that there is a demo to be found here:

You must be registered to see the links

I'm still looking into it, I'll give my opinion in a bit or so.

Edit: Not really much to say about it now. All I was able to do so far was buy the onsen, clean it up, and pretty much nothing else other than go to the brothel and resting constantly. With nothing to do, and no real good example of what to expect, I'm not sure how i feel about this project, especially for twelve grand as a minimum.

Well, there is actually the previous version of the game here

You must be registered to see the links

, which has a bit more content and is actually really interesting.

The project seem a good one, the UI is smooth, the images are appropriate etcetera. Though I'm always concerned with the fact that western projects are rarely finished. But maybe with a solid financial backing the hubris will be kept in check!

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

I assume your game isn't using original artwork (Based on the previous game and the lack of any information about the art portion on your offbeater and blog). Are you even asking the artists permission to use their work in a game?

 

[Lozagal]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Please not another game that scrapes together porn off the internet for popular Oh! My Godess and Ranma girls.

If you want to make a game like this I welcome it. However, original artwork and characters would REALLY be a huge step up.

Sorry if this is the case already.

 

[Xela]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

I assume your game isn't using original artwork. So you're planning on taking other peoples art off the internet and asking people to pay you for it with offbeater?

First version of his game used fandome artwork pics. If you bother to read the offbeat page for 2 minutes, you'll see that he's planning to hire artists for the second version and use original characters (I mean right there on the front page).

Are you even asking the artists permission to use their work in a game?

Did those artists ask for permission to draw artwork based on Anime/Manga/Western/Games before they started drawing? I might be able to understand your problem with pics drawn and shared by fans for the fun of it, but I recon using pics from paid sites that are not bloody likely to pay any royalties either is fair game.

Also the smart approach (if you are not concerned with a possible lawsuit from the creators of original shows/games) would be to just put any art you may find and remove it if any particular artist has a problem with it.

 

[Xela]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Please not another game that scrapes together porn off the internet for popular Oh! My Godess and Ranma girls.

If you want to make a game like this I welcome it. However, original artwork and characters would REALLY be a huge step up.

Sorry if this is the case already.

I would actually prefer popular with scrapes of porn

Edit: I should rephrase that: I would really prefer popular with some new, dedicated original art

But it's a matter of taste...

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

First version of his game used fandome artwork pics. If you bother to read the offbeat page for 2 minutes, you'll see that he's planning to hire artists for the second version and use original characters (I mean right there on the front page).

Did those artists ask for permission to draw artwork based on Anime/Manga/Western/Games before they started drawing?

If you read the offbeater, you'd realize he only plans to commission original artwork if you pledge 1000 dollars. Derp

Using fanart is kind of twice as bad. Now you're ripping off the person who owns the character AND the artist who drew the fanart lol. Fanart IS sketchy in copyright stuff, no doubt. Most people/businesses ignore it as long as the artist isn't profiting (Freelance artists) or profiting too much (Businesses).

Even the rare artists I know that are kind of okay with people posting their art and using it in personal or free projects, don't want people profiting off of it because it could cut into their business. It's not that difficult to ask permission, but if any of those artists find out their work was used and profited from later on, there's going to be trouble for them and this developer. Of course since all the characters are copyrighted, the artist of the fanart is screwed anyways and will just be kind of crapped on in this situation.

Just a warning if you care to not have to deal with that later on like that last guy that used Butagoma300g's art without permission in a game. The developer of that game wasn't even asking for money I don't think. Just show some respect is all. Artists work hard over years getting their skills up, it isn't just a couple hours of work and Bam, art, or we'd all be artists.

Yes, porn is art.

 

[Xela]

Re: BrothelS.im 2


From the offbeatr page:

What you can expect from the second version of the game:

Original characters and a well developed world - rather than cribbing off pre-existing settings, BrothelS.im 2 will have an entirely original cast, with more developed personalities.

Are we reading the same page?

Using fanart is kind of twice as bad. Now you're ripping off the person who owns the character AND the artist who drew the fanart lol. Fanart IS sketchy in copyright stuff, no doubt. Most people/businesses ignore it as long as the artist isn't profiting (Freelance artists) or profiting too much (Businesses).

Even the rare artists I know that are kind of okay with people posting their art and using it in personal or free projects, don't want people profiting off of it because it could cut into their business. It's not that difficult to ask permission, but if any of those artists find out their work was used and profited from later on, there's going to be trouble for them and this developer.

Just a warning if you care to not have to deal with that later on like that last guy that used Butagoma300g's art without permission in a game. That guy wasn't even asking for money I don't think.

Matter of opinion... Copyright discussions are messy, long and never come to any "one" answer in the end.

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

From the offbeatr page:

Are we reading the same page?

Yes, my understanding is that by "Original characters" he means "Not using the same characters as before" or "Not using popular characters that can be easily identified"


If this entire game was original art done by him or people working on the project, wouldn't that be specifically mentioned, like in the "What you can expect from this new version" as "Completely original artwork drawn by (Artist name)". That's kind of a big deal and selling point to miss. All the artwork he uses on his offbeater seems to be from random locations (A screencap from anime, fanart, etc).

I found some of the art he has posted there on gelbooru of holo, the artist is ayakura juu.
Another of anjou naruko is: piroshiky

You're going to tell me a guy making original artwork for this game is using art by these artists on his offbeatr page?

 

[BlueWinds]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

I can't post real links since I don't have 15 posts here yet. :/ Thus the _s in stead of dots.

Ah yes, copyright and related discussions. I might feel bad if I were charging for the game and using other people's art without permission... but I'm not. I'm releasing the game for free - always have, always will. The attempt at funding is to get some money so that I can dedicate *my* time to developing the game - writing, coding, etc.

So to be clear: The characters will be original - names, personalities, stories. Their images will be taken from the internet, but they will be properly credited (in the first one, I accepted user contributions, so I had no idea where most of the stuff came from). If any *artist* has a problem with me using their work, I'll be happy to remove it - but I have little sympathy for people getting defensive on their behalf.

 

[Xela]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Yes, my understanding is that by "Original characters" he means "Not using the same characters as before" or "Not using popular characters that can be easily identified"


If this entire game was original art done by him or people working on the project, wouldn't that be specifically mentioned, like in the "What you can expect from this new version" as "Completely original artwork drawn by (Artist name)". That's kind of a big deal and selling point to miss. All the artwork he uses on his offbeater seems to be from random locations (A screencap from anime, fanart, etc).

I found some of the art he has posted there on gelbooru of holo, the artist is ayakura juu.
Another of anjou naruko is: piroshiky

You're going to tell me a guy making original artwork for this game is using art by these artists on his offbeatr page?

To me "Original Character" means that it's one specifically developed for the project in question. But English is not my native tongue so I simply misunderstood.

So to be clear: The characters will be original - names, personalities, stories. Their images will be taken from the internet, but they will be properly credited (in the first one, I accepted user contributions, so I had no idea where most of the stuff came from). If any *artist* has a problem with me using their work, I'll be happy to remove it - but I have little sympathy for people getting defensive on their behalf.

Ah ok

I misunderstood the idea behind the project, I thought you were going to commission art and create characters from scratch.

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

It's a cute way to try to get around being/feeling legally or morally responsible and all, but you're still taking money for a game built partially on other peoples work.

I'm not even talking copyright issues because nothing anybody can say here will matter much about that. Laws on copyright vary from place to place (Though there is the berne convention copyright). I'm talking respect to the artists and asking their permission BEFORE using their artwork.

Again bringing up the recent Butakoma300g problem where a game developer created a game with all his artwork, then was asked to shut it down by Butakoma and cried like a bitch because he lost his game progress he worked so hard on based off stolen artwork. Just because you can replace it easily with more stolen artwork, doesn't mean it's right. Just ask permission, it's not that hard.

You don't know if those artists are trying to or will want to try to sell that artwork in the future. You publishing it in a game can create a lot of problems for them.

TLDR: It's not that hard to ask for permission and avoid future stress and conflicts, I recommend you do it. Then you can post the artists name on your offbeater proudly instead of trying to make it seem like you created the artwork yourself with clever wording like "Original characters".

 

[Xela]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

"Original characters".

I'd agree that it would be a decent thing to take that off the offbeatr page cause it's both misleading and confusing.

I'd disagree on all other points, but like I've said, it's a matter or principles, opinions and common sense. And all 3 differ to much from person to person to come to any sort of a definitive conclusion in the end.

 

[BlueWinds]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

It's a cute way to try to get around being/feeling legally or morally responsible and all, but you're still taking money for a game built partially on other peoples work.

That's a mighty high horse you're riding there. I'm not trying to get around anything - I simply don't see it as a problem.

You know what I call it, when people release their work for free and then others use it, with a link back to the artist? Publicity. Reputation building. Sharing is caring. By all means, use my writing and my code anywhere you please.

In short... I don't share your hangups. Can we take this conversation to a different thread, rather than derailing this one? If you want to start it, I'd be happy to engage elsewhere, but I'll say no more on the subject in here.

I'd agree that it would be a decent thing to take that off the offbeatr page cause it's both misleading and confusing.

Hm. From my prospective, the writing has always been the important bit rather than the pictures, so I hadn't considered it misleading. As you might be able to see from all the "picture coming soon" placeholders, I consider having images at all to be a secondary aspect. I wonder if it would make people more comfortable if I offered a "no images" version? That would be very easy to code - and in my opinion, hardly any difference in the final product.

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

That's a mighty high horse you're riding there. I'm not trying to get around anything - I simply don't see it as a problem.

You know what I call it, when people release their work for free and then others use it, with a link back to the artist? Publicity. Reputation building. Sharing is caring. By all means, use my writing and my code anywhere you please.

In short... take your hangups to someone who cares, because I don't have them.

Oh I know that you have no respect for these artists or you would have asked permission first. I just want it to be obvious here for everybody instead of how misleading your offbeater makes it seem with the whole "Original characters" bit.

I'm sure offbeater has something in their contract about not using copyrighted material.

You must be registered to see the links

"You warrant that any User Generated Content that you submit to the Website will not violate the rights of third parties, including, but not limited to, trademark rights, copyright rights, and rights of publicity and privacy, or violate any applicable law, statute, ordinance, treaty, or regulation, whether local, state, provincial, national, or international. "

Cool, sounds like enough to get your project taken off offbeater.

 

[Xela]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Hm. From my prospective, the writing has always been the important bit rather than the pictures, so I hadn't considered it misleading. As you might be able to see from all the "picture coming soon" placeholders, I consider having images at all to be a secondary aspect. I wonder if it would make people more comfortable if I offered a "no images" version? That would be very easy to code - and in my opinion, hardly any difference in the final product.

Well, you don't have to convince me of anything, your game will be free in the end and available to everybody and I'd rather have that than bicker about copyright issues.

And while writing is very important, I fear that common sense generally may not be on your side here, Books/Radio would be totally kicking TV's ass if that was true

 

[Rystel]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Oh I know that you have no respect for these artists or you would have asked permission first. I just want it to be obvious here for everybody instead of how misleading your offbeater makes it seem with the whole "Original characters" bit.

I'm sure offbeater has something in their contract about not using copyrighted material.

You must be registered to see the links

"You warrant that any User Generated Content that you submit to the Website will not violate the rights of third parties, including, but not limited to, trademark rights, copyright rights, and rights of publicity and privacy, or violate any applicable law, statute, ordinance, treaty, or regulation, whether local, state, provincial, national, or international. "

Cool, sounds like enough to get your project taken off offbeater.

Heavens, while you might even probably be right, there are better way to prove your point than to be so antagonizing
You came off as if copyright infringer beated you up on the street in the past or something...

Anyway, I was concerned about copyright too. Because while the author might not profit from the game, offbeater is, since it gets a share from the donations, so they will probably take it off to avoid legal repercussions.

One solution would be to make the game without the damned copyrighted images. I don't care about those anyway, the text/situation is generally better anyway (and yes, I know a lot of people like images, but look Corruption of Champions, which is extremely popular even without images at all, just thanks to gameplay and writing).
Maybe, give the option for the player to add his own images, so if he want to add copyrighted ones, it's only his responsability.

 

[FruitSmoothie]

Re: BrothelS.im 2

Heavens, while you might even probably be right, there are better way to prove your point than to be so antagonizing
You came off as if copyright infringer beated you up on the street in the past or something...

Yeah my first posts I just asked that he respect the artists and asks for permission to avoid trouble for himself and the artists. When he made it clear that he had no intention of respecting the artists and their hard work, then I brought up the copyright stuff with Offbeatr.

Helps to read the entire thread I was even pretty polite about it. I seriously don't even want his project/time to be wasted because of this either, but if he ignores the artists he's stealing art work from, that could happen. If any of them come forward and tell offbeatr about this, of course they'd take the project down. This developer should be thinking about that instead of getting defensive. He's risking his own work for a pretty silly reason.