ADV Unknown/Hiatus A kemonomimi / furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

[PineappleJuiceAndBreakfas]

Hi!
For the past several months now, I've been working on a furry game (and I'm still working on it, because it is not finished yet). I would say, it's a crossover between Animal Crossing and maybe Ace Attorney, but it's about corruption and fetishes. You are a hotel owner and you realize that you can make more money if you are a love hotel owner.

- There are at least 8 different customers that represent one sex act (handjob, titjob, blowjob, doggy style, cowgirl, etc.).

- You can serve the customer or hire some employees from the village. Each employee has a unique ability (e.g. dog => doggy style) and every time you level up, you unlock a new sex act (e.g. handjob => footjob).

- The problem is that the village is prudish and you need to convince the villagers to not expel you (and to work for you as an employee). But you can make friends with the villagers by talking and solving their problems.
You can customize your character and your employees too (e.g. small boobs => big boobs).

- The game has a day and night cycle. You can visit the village during day time (solve their problem) and serve your customers during night time.

- The more friends you have, the less prudish is the village and you will meet more unique customers.

Again, it's not finished and I'm still working on the assets and other stuff.
Currently, I'm changing the artstyle into this:
d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1453757457/1453757457.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_artstyle.jpg

d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1450715192/1450715192.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_doe-test-style.jpg

If you are interested, a small demo can be found here (please, don't expect too much):
d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1453697216/1453697216.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_testbuild201601.swf

d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1453696384/1453696384.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_testani201601.swf

d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1450589465/1450589465.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_project_a.swf

or here:
furaffinity.net/user/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast

Let me know what you think!

 

[stuntcock42]

Re: A furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

Let me know what you think!

This thread probably belongs in the Under Construction section.

You should also clarify what you want from the ULMF forum members. If you're looking for playtesters then say so. If you want design advice then say so. If you're hoping to collaborate with other indie developers, artists, or writers then say so. If you're trying to establish some buzz in advance of a crowdfunding pitch then good luck.

Keep in mind that Flash limits your pool of potential contributors somewhat. Artists can submit environmental assets and backgrounds in raster form, but anything related to characters should probably be vector-drawn so that it can be scaled and animated. Programmers can debug AS3 in plaintext form, but they won't be able to compile and test their changes unless they have a Flash license. Authors can submit storylines and sex scenes in document form, but they'll be relying on you to mark it up, add quest triggers, and incorporate it into source files.

Waitaminute ... your SWF assets are all rasters. That's silly. If you want to make a Flash game then you should get comfortable with vector artwork.

Also - organize your code. Setup some classes instead of dumping everything into a 13000-line timeline script.

 

[PineappleJuiceAndBreakfas]

Re: A furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me! And sorry, if I'm posting in the wrong forum.

I'm currently seeking for opinions regarding the demo/idea (design advices or constructive criticism).

I mean, I have this idea for several months and have been experimenting with it in flash. I'm no pro, but what I wanted was:
- A 24h cycle, where you could see the daily life of the characters (done).
- Teleport to several locations via mouse clicks and alternatively use the arrow keys to control a small avatar through a map (done).
- A simple crafting mechanic (done).
- A save system (done).
- Customization (done).
- etc.

Even though it is not perfect, I'm glad it works!
Since it is currently a one-man project, I'm doing the art too. But doing frame-to-frame art takes time and I can't show a lot (some are just not ready).
Of course, crowdfunding would help me tremendously and I would really appreciate it, because I could hire someone or so, but it always boils down to the question: Does anyone want to see more of it or should I just move on?

Thank you for your helpful reply!

 

[DarkFire1004]

Re: A furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

Well, there's a proof of concept, which technically would keep it out of the Under Construction section. However, there're still a lot of things in this project that makes it seem a bit vaporware-ish to me. If you could, please elaborate on the project some more and maybe an outline of what you plan to do.

 

[stuntcock42]

Re: A furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

doing frame-to-frame art takes time

Yes, and that's why you're not supposed to draw stuff frame-by-frame when you work with Flash. Draw a separate sprite for each bodypart, setup keyframes (e.g. "hand wrapped around glans of penis" and "hand wrapped around base of penis") and then create a tween which moves the bodyparts back and forth through the appropriate motions.

Does anyone want to see more of it or should I just move on?

DarkFire hit the nail on the head:

there's a proof of concept

This is a proof of concept rather than the foundation for a game.

If you're willing to adapt your project to use Flash technology effectively, then it may be worthwhile to continue. Alternatively, you could just mess around with the project - use it to test out crazy ideas for UI elements, minigames, dialog systems, etc...

By "use Flash technology effectively" I mean that you'd need to throw away most of your actual implementation. You can preserve the designs (ie the layout of UI elements, game mechanics, character concepts, etc) but you'd be starting over w/r/t artwork and code.

Take a look at

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. It's a Flash game which focuses almost entirely on sex animations, and its design reflects an understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of Flash. It's the same size as your demo (1548 kb vs 1490 kb) yet SDT is a finished game. Compare the artwork included in the two files:

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

Your design puts everything on a timeline; your AS3 scripts jump between frames in order to show animations. Minor UI elements (such as buttons and the character avatar) are drawn on additional layers as needed. You can easily preview and refine your animations, but the system is esoteric and it may be difficult for others to troubleshoot or contribute to it.

SDT rarely uses timelines. It chops up bodies into small sprites (fingers, forearm, thigh, ear, hair strands, socks, etc) and draws them on various hardcoded layers. During gameplay, it uses complex internal scripts to move these sprites around. The result is that you get interactive animations which seem to obey the laws of physics and the limits of anatomy (via inverse kinematics). Since the animations incorporate user-configurable parameters (such as "size of penis" and "distance between characters") it isn't possible to preview them in Flash -- you need to actually playtest them.

SDT doesn't have any complex game mechanics; there's no context or meaning behind the sex. You could obviously do much better if you setup a game design which in which sex serves as a challenge, puzzle, or incentivize - or if it plays a role in character development. SDT is also sexist as hell - the focus is placed on the dick, there's no foreplay, the code doesn't make any provisions for female pleasure, and there are no sprites for female genitalia. Again: you can do better than this. Your design could include scenes focusing on frottage, cunnilingus, dildo-play, and so on.

There's one important positive feature in SDT: most of its artwork is modular. The game has sustained a

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which has added a lot of stuff over time (including furry characters - although they're kinda shitty because the anatomy scripting expects noses instead of snouts). Obviously, modularity can extend the life of your game and enhance interest (e.g. by allowing players to import their OCs and fursonas into the game).


I'm not suggesting that you mimic the exact approach used by SDT. You can (and probably should!) use a keyframed animation strategy instead of simulated physics. But you should be using some of the minor techniques - such as chopping bodies into several independent sprites per limb, employing vector graphics instead of rasters, and creating sex animations by tweening keyframes instead of drawing the entire scene frame-by-frame.

If you don't want to do all of that, then you might consider building your game on a different framework. There are many options (ren'py, RPGMaker, Unity, etc). They're less amenable to character customization; they might force you to alter or drop some of your design elements. But they'd allow you to fulfill the basic objectives (VN gameplay, dialog trees, character sprites, inventory management, quest triggers, etc) much faster and with fewer headaches.

If you don't intend to harness the advantages of Flash, then building a Flash game makes no sense. You're just tying yourself down with shitty runtime performance, licensed software tools (which inhibit collaboration), lack of support for mobile platforms, barely-adequate audio, and an absence of ready-made code libraries for standard gameplay features.

 

[PineappleJuiceAndBreakfas]

Re: A furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

First off, sorry for the late response. A very Happy New Year to you all (yes, late to the party, I know, I know. Again, sorry.).

Yes, and that's why you're not supposed to draw stuff frame-by-frame when you work with Flash. Draw a separate sprite for each bodypart, setup keyframes (e.g. "hand wrapped around glans of penis" and "hand wrapped around base of penis") and then create a tween which moves the bodyparts back and forth through the appropriate motions.

Thanks for showing me Super Deepthroat! I can see the benefits of doing that, especially with the game! But one of my reasons for creating a game is the frame by frame animation. I chose Flash, because I could jump between frames in order to show animations and because I sadly know little about other frameworks like ren'py, RPGMaker or Unity.

It is true that I do not use the potential of Flash to the fullest and I need to overcome its limitations, but with Flash I can create an interactive cycle with frame by frame animation.

Of course, I would like to recode it to use it more efficiently and make it easy for others or the modding community to contribute, but I guess one of the biggest bottleneck is the frame by frame animation. And I can see why, because there are more efficient alternatives in regard to time or file size (like your mentioned keyframed animation and tweening).

The remaining question is: Is it impossible to create a game with frame by frame animation in a "feasible" way? After several month with this project, I would say: It is possible, but with a "but". Before I elaborate, I would like to give a response to DarkFire1004, because it goes in the same direction.

Well, there's a proof of concept, which technically would keep it out of the Under Construction section. However, there're still a lot of things in this project that makes it seem a bit vaporware-ish to me. If you could, please elaborate on the project some more and maybe an outline of what you plan to do.

I will try: I started the project, because I want to create a game with

- fleshed out characters
- a simple gameplay
- frame by frame animation

By "fleshed out charactes" I mean something more than horny cardboard cutouts. I'm not talking about something nobel prize worthy.
To flesh out the characters, I need a story. You take control of a doe that returns to its hometown to renovate an old and abandoned mansion. Everybody in this childless village seem nice at first. But some of them is in on a dark and bizarre secret. You slowly begin to suspect that something is "rotten in the state of Denmark".
It is a combination of Animal Crossing and Ace Attorney or a grown-up version of Animal Crossing with a mystery story. You can explore the environment and can go straight from one location to another or just walk around and speak with other characters.

Since the old mansion has been sadly neglected, you want to renovate the rooms one by one. To finance it, you rent the rooms to travellers and tourists at night. Later you remodel the rooms into something else like a diner, a fitness room, a spa, etc. and use them by day to generate more money.
You are turning the mansion into a love hotel and hire some employees from the village to help you out.

By "simple gameplay" I mean a very clear structure. Each employee and guest has a clear role and has very clear strenghts and weaknesses. Like in an RPG.
When sleeping with a guest, you need to select the right employee and position it’s weak against and then exploit the weakness.
You are sleeping with guests to gather resources to upgrade your rooms, your skills (from simple handjob to footjob etc.) and to craft new items.

Your first guests are all male and faceless (hard, cold, emotionless sex), because they should work as a tutorial. After the tutorial or triggers, you will see new guests, male and female. Characters that you have met from the village / friends (passionate, non-stop pumping until exhaustion sex, with foreplay etc.).

The fundamental things in regard to the mechanics are in this build / proof of concept:
d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1453697216/1453697216.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_testbuild201601.swf

I chose the kemonomimi (human faces with animal ears) and "furry" (animal faces) style, because I like anthropomorphism and like the motifs.
d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1453757457/1453757457.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_artstyle.jpg

I'm planning to make a switch button, so you can jump between those styles. And I'm planning to use vector graphics.

Now, the "frame by frame animation". It is possible in a reasonable timeframe to create loops like these:
d.facdn.net/art/pineapplejuiceandbreakfast/1453696384/1453696384.pineapplejuiceandbreakfast_testani201601.swf

By "reasonable timeframe" I mean 2 weeks - 1 month for a loop.
But it is only possible, if someone can finance it. Funding is always the ultimate problem and I have no idea, how to solve this problem.

Other than that, what I really want to know is: Does the game idea or animations look really terrible? (genuine question)

 

[stuntcock42]

Re: A furry project or how many fetishes can I implement into a game

But one of my reasons for creating a game is the frame by frame animation.

It's okay to prefer hand-crafted animations over tweened ones. Please don't take my advice as a restriction on what you ought to do. I'm a programmer, so my natural inclination is to draw the shittiest/laziest artwork possible, and then make it look good with physics-based animation. I'm always a bit surprised (but impressed!) to work with an artist who's willing to draw intricate details (such as the pleat-and-crease details on this bikini, done by a fellow called

You must be registered to see the links

).

You must be registered to see the links

Hand-crafted animations are much easier to preview and fine-tune. They'll deliver better fidelity, at the cost of reduced flexibility (you can't just "swap in" a horse-shaped penis into your handjob loop, whereas you can swap one into SDT because of its low-fidelity animations).

It is true that I do not use the potential of Flash to the fullest and I need to overcome its limitations, but with Flash I can create an interactive cycle with frame by frame animation.

That's okay, but I'd urge you to explore the technical features of the toolset. For example, if your handjob loop used vectors (which you're planning to do anyways) then you could adjust the color of the penis with a few lines of ActionScript.

The animation itself is a high-cost asset, so it behooves you to get as much value out of it as possible. This might involve subtle randomization (e.g. ±5% brightness on the skin color of each NPC) to increase the visual variety of the game and make animations feel less monotonous. Or you might perform a complete "palette swap" (e.g. red penis → blue penis) as a way of identifying a different "class" of NPCs.

Similarly: the player might get to influence some of the colors. The most obvious venue for player control involves recoloring things like hair, fur, and irises. This requires a bit of extra planning (and some fancy layering in Flash) but it doesn't involve extra animation work for you (unlike player-controlled adjustment of breast sizes, hip size, etc -- those things need to be carefully incorporated if you want them to jiggle properly).

Of course, I would like to recode it to use it more efficiently and make it easy for others or the modding community to contribute, but I guess one of the biggest bottleneck is the frame by frame animation.

Don't worry about it. If your game supports player-contributed animations, then Flash doesn't care whether they're hand-crafted or tweened. Flash can't really distinguish between the two; it simply plays them on-screen.

A modder's contributions might not fit into the visual style of your game, but there's no real technical barrier to overcome. A modder might submit a simple tweened animation as a "proof of concept", and then you might spend a week to re-draw it as a custom animation (e.g. as a Patreon bonus reward or whatever).

The remaining question is: Is it impossible to create a game with frame by frame animation in a "feasible" way?
...
By "reasonable timeframe" I mean 2 weeks - 1 month for a loop.

I would caution you to look carefully at the Breeding Season game. If your "artwork pipeline" is slow because of the immense effort needed to create new scenes, then fans may be frustrated by the slow pace of new content.

Does the game idea or animations look really terrible?

The animations show good physicality -- there are a lot of "moving parts" and evidence of inertia, strain, mass, elasticity, etc... There's a clear understanding that we're dealing with humanoid bodies rather than sex organs attached to rigid armatures.

The faces look somewhat "off" to me. I can suspend disbelief for kemono faces, or for furry faces ... but I can't accept both of them side-by-side. If your game presents them side-by-side, then I'd encourage you to experiment with a more stylized appearance for the kemono faces. If the two types of characters tend to remain separate, then this problem may not arise.

The character proportions are fairly realistic. This is a "unique" touch, in that most H-games tend to opt for comic-book proportions (giant perky breasts, rippling musculature, waist-length hair, wasp waists, etc). This is a huge advantage for animation because unrealistic proportions are a pain-in-the-ass to work with (e.g. "his penis is larger than her mouth ... how the hell do I draw her fellating him?!?"). But it could be a disadvantage in the marketplace - if customers want/expect hypersexualized characters then they may dislike your designs for being too mundane. This is especially important if players will actually create an avatar within your game. They may get upset if the available avatars are too "plain."

The actual GUI stuff (icons, corridors, text screens) looks very "placeholder". It isn't very distinctive or pleasant to look at. It shows a mix of artistic styles (e.g. architectural drawings, smartphone icons, thought bubbles), and it clashes with your own drawing style. I'd encourage you to omit or simplify a lot of this stuff. Consider the very basic "minimap" used in

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's TiTS game. The "square rooms connected by lines" approach is very simple, but it's visually clean and it doesn't require any custom artwork when adding a new room.

Please don't feel compelled to add artistic details to your game merely to make it seem more "complete". You should add them when they contribute something to gameplay, or when they give you an opportunity to apply your talents. Until then, it's best to communicate information (e.g. location, time-of-day) via text, and to present the user with raw/ugly buttons when they have an opportunity for interaction. Build up the functional capabilities of your game first; you can always "reskin" it with a pretty GUI later.