Divine Arms - A magical action-adventure hentai game

[kb88]

Nobody pays particular attention to a car just driving down the road, but a car crash is instantly memorable.

This is the stupidest fucking analogy I've ever heard, you're a moron, I really shouldn't bother with the rest but I will. And that whole first paragraph is really a shit excuse, if you can find more than the three I listed on this forum, go find them.

Taking people's money, and giving nothing in return is wrong in every single way, Patreon isn't a donation site, the developer presents the blueprints, people give money, the dev turns those blueprints into a completed project. You seem to be a aggressive fence sitter. (Weird fucking combination) "Oh its not thievery it's incompetence, let him keep all his money and get away scot free" one would almost think you have plans to make some easy patreon bucks some day, they way you so vehemently protest calling it what it is.

I said most devs that finish their game before they make their money, most. And if they don't, they've done absolutely nothing ethically wrong because they haven't taken a dime.

 

[nanaya1234]

Seriously these guys make thousands of dollars a month just hire a professional PR guy so you can avoid sounding like a giant asshat.

 

[bobthemanseven]

There's no PR team in the world skilled enough to handle the absolute shitstorm thats spawned from this mess.

 

[censuur]

This is the stupidest fucking analogy I've ever heard, you're a moron, I really shouldn't bother with the rest but I will. And that whole first paragraph is really a shit excuse, if you can find more than the three I listed on this forum, go find them.

It's a common analogy, you flipping out over it just demonstrates your ignorance, not that it needed further evidence. Sending me out to correct your ignorance doesn't disprove it, either. There are plenty of worthwhile Patreons, artists producing regular work are a common example. Hreinn games has already produced a quality game, Sierra Lee constantly produces quality work and there are dozens more that you can look for yourself if you could be bothered to get your head out of your arse. Yes, there are plenty of cases of wrongdoing, but pretending that's the majority just because you can't be fucked to do your homework on the matter is ludicrous.

Taking people's money, and giving nothing in return is wrong in every single way

Key difference here between 'taking people's money' and 'people giving you money' Which is what Patreon is all about.

Patreon isn't a donation site

And that's where you're wrong. Maybe try reading the terms before making stupid claims like these.

You seem to be a aggressive fence sitter. (Weird fucking combination) "Oh its not thievery it's incompetence, let him keep all his money and get away scot free" one would almost think you have plans to make some easy patreon bucks some day, they way you so vehemently protest calling it what it is.

Have you still not learned that just making shit up about something and arguing it as truth is ridiculous? How the hell did you live past the age of 18 without learning this? You're so far off base here that I can't help but wonder at your intellectual capacity, to have neither learned how what you're doing is foolish, but also to not have learned how you're also fucking terrible at it.

I said most devs that finish their game before they make their money, most. And if they don't, they've done absolutely nothing ethically wrong because they haven't taken a dime.

And that's retarded, because the absolute majority of devs get a salary while working on a game, regardless of that game actually being finished or not. Game development is full of cancelled projects even in big development studios, and those devs still get paid their salary. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about and are just regurgitating childishly fantastical platitudes, fuck off mate.

 

[Noble 6]

We've gone from patreon being a donation system to patreon being a regular salary in one post.
And according to patreon's front page, neither are for what it's for. It's so "Fans pay you a subscription amount of their choice in exchange for exclusive experiences & behind-the-scenes content."
People were upset because no content was being given and the experience was draining, both mentally and monetarily.

 

[censuur]

We've gone from patreon being a donation system to patreon being a regular salary in one post.

You might want to work on your reading comprehension a bit if that's your conclusion. Also if you think you need to explain to me why people are upset you REALLY need to work on it. All I've done is explain things and tell people to tone it down with the extremes and asinine accusations. There have been several major Patreons on this forum alone that have shown remarkable incompetence but to equate that with malice when no evidence to such is known is just stupid.

All we know and all we can use is that these developers are incompetent and don't really deserve any kind of financial backing for their professional output, speculating as to their intentions or aspirations is as pointless as it is misguided. Even in the case that these Patreons are running an intentional scam... so what? What does this change for the user other than withdrawing their backing? Why escalate when doing so is utterly pointless and just makes you come off as a ranting dullard with a chip on his shoulder, just stick to the damn facts, those are damning enough, rather than speculating into the endless pool of "what if"

 

[Noble 6]

What does this change for the user other than withdrawing their backing? Why escalate when doing so is utterly pointless and just makes you come off as a ranting dullard with a chip on his shoulder, just stick to the damn facts, those are damning enough, rather than speculating into the endless pool of "what if"

See, you just outed yourself here as the "dullard with a chip on his shoulder." I never proposed a "what if." I stated the fact that you opened your last post with "people giving you money' Which is what Patreon is all about." and ended it with "cancelled projects even in big development studios, and those devs still get paid their salary." as the reason to why the patreon is not at fault.
And few others are stating "what if" either, just everyone pointing out that nobody should be donating to this, but then you jump in and start flailing wildly acting like everyone "escalating" this somehow when all that's happening is everyone is verbally agreeing that the project is a failure.

 

[censuur]

See, you just outed yourself here as the "dullard with a chip on his shoulder."

Again, reading comprehension, if that's the first conclusion you jump to then really, stop yourself and think things through.

I never proposed a "what if."

And neither did I say you did, I explained my own actions in context of the conversation you replied to, Einstein.

I stated the fact that you opened your last post with "people giving you money' Which is what Patreon is all about." and ended it with "cancelled projects even in big development studios, and those devs still get paid their salary." as the reason to why the patreon is not at fault.

Yes, and I asserted you need to work on your reading comprehension, you just repeating yourself means not only did you miss the point the first time, you refused to even attempt to see what went wrong. "Parteon is about x" and "developers working on a project get paid a salary regardless of success" are two different claims, one is about how a system functions, the other is about how financial compensation for work generally occurs in the real world, these are entirely unrelated so your conclusion of them being somehow contradictory is just absolutely laughable.

And few others are stating "what if" either

It's hardly about the number now is it? Anyone claiming "such and such and so and so is a scam" when all we know is incompetence is one too many, your entire argument here is just dumb as shit mate.

just everyone pointing out that nobody should be donating to this

This would actually be agreeable and in line with what I've been doing myself, but this is blatantly false as people have been calling this a scam in this very thread, which you can read for yourself. I mean seriously mate, what is your problem? How the fuck do you just blatantly claim something with evidence to the opposite right under your nose? The thread is right fucking here you dingus. People have made these claims this very conversation, and I've responded to them as such. No one is disagreeing that the project is a failure and shouldn't get further financial backing, that's beating a dead horse at this point, keep up you bloody idiot.

 

[kb88]

Let's cut the useless horseshit from your post, (about 90%) to address the actual discussion, replying to everything an aggressively neutral fuckboy says is a waste of time and life.

Hreinn games has already produced a quality game, Sierra Lee constantly produces quality work

I don't think point and click adventures are quality at all, but that's just my opinion.

Key difference here between 'taking people's money' and 'people giving you money' Which is what Patreon is all about.

And that's where you're wrong. Maybe try reading the terms before making stupid claims like these.

You're actually retarded.

You must be registered to see the links

Go ahead and educate yourself.

And that's retarded, because the absolute majority of devs get a salary while working on a game, regardless of that game actually being finished or not.

I'm assuming you're referring largely to triple A developers. Why? What does it have to do with this? And besides, their salary comes from past releases. No one is giving them money for their unfinished game. Are you truly this stupid?

An astonishing 4 lines were worth replying to, and hardly at that. Really pathetic.

 

[censuur]

An astonishing 4 lines were worth replying to, and hardly at that. Really pathetic.

Funny how you can tell that but not when it comes to your own drivel. Have some self-awareness you dimwit.

I don't think point and click adventures are quality at all, but that's just my opinion.

Why even talk when you don't actually know what you speak of buddy? No, seriously, answer me here, why the fuck did you post this when it has nothing to do with the quoted segment, did you actually think you had the right of it here?

Go ahead and educate yourself.

Bitch please,

You must be registered to see the links

point me to where it says you're entering any kind of pay-for-work contract engagement where you can oblige the other party to some form of terms, you're so full of shit it comes pouring out your mouth.

I'm assuming you're referring largely to triple A developers. Why? What does it have to do with this? And besides, their salary comes from past releases. No one is giving them money for their unfinished game. Are you truly this stupid?

And you assume wrong. Why? Because the post it was a reply to talked about the morals and ethics of financial compensation you imbecile, why the fuck does this need to be explained, is keeping up with a simple conversation too much for you? The idea that developer salary would only come from past releases is also ridiculous and blatantly false, while this is certainly the case in many development studios, often publishers hiring a development studio or a development studio hiring staff still just pay their employees regardless of ultimate results. Consider the fucking conversation you're jumping into you fucking idiot, what a god damn waste of time on some little shite that can't even be bothered to fucking read the conversation he's meddling in.

 

[Noble 6]

And neither did I say you did, I explained my own actions in context of the conversation you replied to, Einstein.

Except you did. I even quoted your post where you said that I was a dullard with a chip on his shoulder proposing what ifs.

one is about how a system functions, the other is about how financial compensation for work generally occurs in the real world

Either both are about the same topic of what patreon is to a developer which is what the rest of your post was about, or your second point is completely irrelevant as kb88 says.

It's hardly about the number now is it?

Your previous posts say the opposite, and also still ignore that everyone is agreeing on very reasonable ideas about the project being a failure. It's a pretty large consensus.

but this is blatantly false as people have been calling this a scam in this very thread, which you can read for yourself. I mean seriously mate, what is your problem? How the fuck do you just blatantly claim something with evidence to the opposite right under your nose? The thread is right fucking here you dingus. People have made these claims this very conversation, and I've responded to them as such. No one is disagreeing that the project is a failure and shouldn't get further financial backing, that's beating a dead horse at this point, keep up you bloody idiot.

You fucked up again. I never said nobody was calling it a scam. In fact someone with even low brainpower could determine that what I said implied that people agreed it was a scam. Which it was. It was a project that siphoned money for two years with no updates that lied about things such as weather-related issues which, since we know where we live and humans keep a very accurate record of weather, we know for a fact that he's lied about at least two hurricanes. If a project starts up and then runs with the money but still keeps taking more money without putting out the promised product, that is a scam.

 

[censuur]

Except you did. I even quoted your post where you said that I was a dullard with a chip on his shoulder proposing what ifs.

For fucks sake is no one in this god damn thread literate in the English language? What the fuck is going on. Allow me to re-quote and fucking explain it as if you were eight years old for you.

Why escalate when doing so is utterly pointless and just makes you come off as a ranting dullard with a chip on his shoulder

Nowhere in this sentence are you mentioned or implied, it speaks of the general concept of escalating pointlessly, whether you're involved in that or not is entirely irrelevant to the conversation.

Either both are about the same topic of what patreon is to a developer which is what the rest of your post was about, or your second point is completely irrelevant as kb88 says.

Again, it was a post responding to two separate claims you utter moron.

Your previous posts say the opposite, and also still ignore that everyone is agreeing on very reasonable ideas about the project being a failure. It's a pretty large consensus.

What previous posts say the opposite? I never said or implied the number mattered, I said any number is too many. It doesn't matter whether it's one person saying stupid shit, or a whole thread of people saying stupid shit, I'll speak out against the stupid shit. It's really that fucking simple, except apparently still too much for you (and see here is an example of me referencing you specifically, see how that works now?)

You fucked up again. I never said nobody was calling it a scam.

Oh come the fuck on you backpedaling retard, it's right here

just everyone pointing out that nobody should be donating to this

So either you don't know what "just" means in this sentence or you're blatantly lying. A moron or a dishonest asshole, take your pick.

In fact someone with even low brainpower could determine that what I said implied that people agreed it was a scam. Which it was. It was a project that siphoned money for two years with no updates

And yet another blatantly false post, there have been a number of updates many of which had been shared in this very thread. One again, either stupid, ignorant, or outright lying.

I'm quite done with this shit, I'm trying to have a normal conversation about the implications of this Patreon fallout and all I seem to be doing is explaining basic English to people with the reading comprehension of a bunch of toddlers.

 

[kb88]

Alright, I'll try to talk as if I were trying to explain something to a baboon.

Why even talk when you don't actually know what you speak of buddy? No, seriously, answer me here, why the fuck did you post this when it has nothing to do with the quoted segment, did you actually think you had the right of it here?

What exactly don't I know what I'm speaking of? Are you saying I've never played point and click adventures? You said you could find other completed and quality patreons than the 3 I listed, and you came back to me with that. People may disagree with me, and that's fine, but I don't consider them quality.

Once again,

You must be registered to see the links

This is on the front page

The idea that developer salary would only come from past releases is also ridiculous and blatantly false, while this is certainly the case in many development studios, often publishers hiring a development studio or a development studio hiring staff still just pay their employees regardless of ultimate results.

You understand that developers getting paid by publishers can't just take the money and run right, like so many Patreons have done, right? Please tell me you at least know that the major difference between patreon projects and what you are talking about are solid contracts. And again, are not receiving payments for unfinished projects.

All the British slang in the world won't make you sound intelligent friend.

Not related, but I've gone up two reputation pellets? since this argument started, so apparently people like my posts despite my foul language and think you're a fucking dickhead.

EDIT Make that four.

 

[Noble 6]

Oh come the fuck on you backpedaling retard, it's right here
So either you don't know what "just" means in this sentence or you're blatantly lying. A moron or a dishonest asshole, take your pick.

And yet another blatantly false post, there have been a number of updates many of which had been shared in this very thread. One again, either stupid, ignorant, or outright lying.

I'm quite done with this shit, I'm trying to have a normal conversation about the implications of this Patreon fallout and all I seem to be doing is explaining basic English to people with the reading comprehension of a bunch of toddlers.

The entire first half of your post is backpedaling, and the part you claim I backpedaled on even proves me right with the quote you pulled. Is something being a scam not a legitimate reason to stop funding? And the last few pages covered that it just had its first update in two years specifically in response to everyone realizing it was a scam and then the dev jumps in demanding the thread be locked so nobody can get the word out that it's a scam, so we already know you're lying. If you count more of 'Hey, the thirty sixth tidal wave this month killed my fourth mom" as an update then you have brain problems.
Also, if multiple people are pointing out how your wording is, at best, terrible if not completely conveying another point than what you intended then maybe you're the one with the reading comprehension of a toddler.

 

[censuur]

Alright, I'll try to talk as if I were trying to explain something to a baboon.

Oookay, waiting for it... yea you're just full of shit as usual. Nice try though, you acting like an imbecile makes me feel soooo offended

What exactly don't I know what I'm speaking of? Are you saying I've never played point and click adventures?

Neither of the Patreons I've mentioned have made point and click adventures you bumbling oaf. Nor does you disliking a concept determine anything about it's relative quality.

Once again,

You must be registered to see the links

This is on the front page

Yea, it's on the front page, and that's an advertisement blurb, how the hell do you consider such a thing to equate the concept of a site? Even so, relating back to this specific topic, how exactly does this Patreon not meet these aspects? You certainly got an experience in exchange for your subscription, and there was behind the scenes content too.

You understand that developers getting paid by publishers can't just take the money and run right

Yea that would NEVER happen except in the dozens of cases where it did. Again, using your own ignorance as the basis for such a sweeping claim is ridiculously stupid.

All the British slang in the world won't make you sound intelligent friend.

Ah yes my mission here is clearly to sound intelligent to a bunch of fops on a pornography forum, that is just SO important to me. Get off your own ego train pal. Not everyone is as narcissistic as you seem to be.

Not related, but I've gone up two reputation pellets? since this argument started, so apparently people like my posts despite my foul language and think you're a fucking dickhead.

Ah yes the good old "people agree with me despite my arguments being destroyed so I'm right anyway because sentiments matter more than facts"

I mean, god damnit dude, can you just fucking stop yourself from leaking your bile everywhere and just stop to think about that the fuck you're saying here?

 

[kb88]

Yea, it's on the front page, and that's an advertisement blurb, how the hell do you consider such a thing to equate the concept of a site?

How does something written by Patreon on the front page of Patreon relate to Patreon? Oh uh I dunno?

how exactly does this Patreon not meet these aspects? You certainly got an experience in exchange for your subscription, and there was behind the scenes content too.

I guess more and more people are becoming infuriated with patreon for no reason then. And the fact that there is nothing in the ToS about what is advertised in the front page is more evidence that its an unregulated hotbed of scammers.

Yea that would NEVER happen except in the dozens of cases where it did.

And if they did, they weren't under contract, or they got sued, because this is how it works.

Oh nice job with the emotes by the way, I was starting to think you were an angry, babbling little spastic but that put my mind at ease.

 

[censuur]

Is something being a scam not a legitimate reason to stop funding?

Yes? Why would you even bring this up? Where did I remotely imply otherwise? Oh. Right. You fucking suck at reading and you're arguing with your own imagination rather than the posts I made.

Also, if multiple people are pointing out how your wording is, at best, terrible if not completely conveying another point than what you intended then maybe you're the one with the reading comprehension of a toddler.

Ah yes, because many wrongs make a right, of course, how could I be so foolish. I mean it's not as if I've been correcting you every step of the way and you actually never had a coherent argument as a rebuttal before jumping to more false conclusions and misinterpreting simple text. Since you seem to be getting confused allow me to summarize my main talking points in a single post:

1. This Patreon is a disaster. This has been my sentiment for well over a year now, back last year when the developer was pressed for a new demo which got constantly delayed (I seem to recall this being mostly around October last year)
2. There is no evidence of the developer willfully committing fraud. Fraud is a criminal offense punishable by law, it requires intent. Making a deal and being unable to fill your end of the bargain does not constitute fraud, therefor calling it a scam simply because you didn't get what you think you should is inaccurate and misleading.
3. Until there is evidence of fraud, it's pointless to act as if a scam has occurred. Simply put, proof before conviction. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that the developer here just played a con, possibility is not enough to proclaim something as such.
4. For us, the users, there is no tangible difference between fraud or incompetence, in both cases our response is to pull funding, so there is no point in escalating this matter to fraud, especially when we have no evidence to back up such claims. The only thing we know for sure is that the developer has not produced any work worthy of the financial compensation he received for it, and is undeserving of any more.
5. In this case, proclaiming someone as a fraudster, conman, scammer or what have you actually is a crime, while you're unlikely to be prosecuted for it, slander/libel like this could get you in trouble, so why do it when there is literally no damn point other than childish hyperbole?

Now that we can hopefully stop making shit up to disagree with, we can start having a normal fucking conversation without me needing to explain basic facts. Thanks.

 

[censuur]

How does something written by Patreon on the front page of Patreon relate to Patreon? Oh uh I dunno?

Oooooh we were talking about "things related to Patreon? No, you moron, that's not the subject of the conversation. We were talking about the kind of system/service Patreon was, not "anything and everything related to Patreon including it's advertisement blurbs"

I guess more and more people are becoming infuriated with patreon for no reason then. And the fact that there is nothing in the ToS about what is advertised in the front page is more evidence that its an unregulated hotbed of scammers.

Gee, it's almost like I've been warning people about this for years on end now. Patreon does nothing to protect users from developers who take the money and run, and the only recourse we have is to stop paying them and take our losses for granted, this is a problem, because under Patreons current system/regulations the developers pretty much CANNOT commit fraud, because all they need to do to fullfull their end of the bargain is say "typed on my keyboard this month" and take their check.

And if they did, they weren't under contract, or they got sued, because this is how it works.

Sure, they get sued. Go read up on the debacle that was Duke Nukem Forever if you want to see how that goes. The issue here is that your core claim comes down to "surely scams never happen outside of things like Patreon" They do, regularly, which is why there is mountains of legislation on the matter, and endless examples of things going wrong, people walking away with undeserved funds etc. There is nothing remarkable about Patreon other than the ease of which you can get away with misconduct.

Oh nice job with the emotes by the way, I was starting to think you were an angry, babbling little spastic but that put my mind at ease.

Oh don't let me stop you from making shit up to feel better about losing every argument so far buddy, whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[kb88]

Oooooh we were talking about "things related to Patreon? No, you moron, that's not the subject of the conversation. We were talking about the kind of system/service Patreon was, not "anything and everything related to Patreon including it's advertisement blurbs"

So, an explanation of what you can expect if you put money into a Patreon project, written on the front page of Patreon, has nothing to do with what "system/service" Patreon is? And you think I'm the moron?

Gee, it's almost like I've been warning people about this for years on end now. Patreon does nothing to protect users from developers who take the money and run, and the only recourse we have is to stop paying them and take our losses for granted, this is a problem, because under Patreons current system/regulations the developers pretty much CANNOT commit fraud, because all they need to do to fullfull their end of the bargain is say "typed on my keyboard this month" and take their check.

If this is what you believe, then why the fuck are you arguing with me and everyone else that has bad things to say about very obvious cases of misconduct. (See I'm not calling it a scam for you, since that word seems to turn you into a raging ape, even though it really probably is.)

This crowdfunding shit is new and unregulated, and like with most laws, people have to get angry and complain before things get changed. You attempting to shit on and hush everyone who does is preventing that much needed change. And you do it despite having absolutely nothing invested in the subject, it's like you enjoy to argue (poorly) for the sake of it. That's fucking miserable.

 

[Noble 6]

2. There is no evidence of the developer willfully committing fraud. Fraud is a criminal offense punishable by law, it requires intent. Making a deal and being unable to fill your end of the bargain does not constitute fraud, therefor calling it a scam simply because you didn't get what you think you should is inaccurate and misleading.
3. Until there is evidence of fraud, it's pointless to act as if a scam has occurred. Simply put, proof before conviction. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that the developer here just played a con, possibility is not enough to proclaim something as such.
4. For us, the users, there is no tangible difference between fraud or incompetence, in both cases our response is to pull funding, so there is no point in escalating this matter to fraud, especially when we have no evidence to back up such claims. The only thing we know for sure is that the developer has not produced any work worthy of the financial compensation he received for it, and is undeserving of any more.
5. In this case, proclaiming someone as a fraudster, conman, scammer or what have you actually is a crime, while you're unlikely to be prosecuted for it, slander/libel like this could get you in trouble, so why do it when there is literally no damn point other than childish hyperbole?

These are all false. As previously established, we know what area he lives in and how many natural disasters have hit him, and we also have a comprehensive record of the times he fabricated more than actually existed because he did not expect people to find other people on the internet. He gave fabricated reasons as to why he delayed a product put still took the payment for it, delaying progress for two years until conveniently when everyone started calling him out on it. The reason everyone is jumping on it is because there is solid proof.