DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

I will warn that the plan is at the mercy of the Chameleon's whim. If the Chameleon decides to lie about her role and counter a third person, then it is uncertain which side will win.

As I've pointed out, the Chameleon is guaranteed victory with good if they do claim, but who knows, they may not like the idea of guaranteed victory. (Which is more valid than it sounds - they may not feel like it's a 'legitimate' win by participating with good in an all reveal.)

Tentanarix, what are your thoughts? Haven't heard much at all from you. Trying to lie low?

Siphon, what do you think of my plan now that I've answered your questions?

Plmnko, if you had to vote on one person right now, who would you vote?

Anyone else feel like talking?

 

[Bartnum]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

1 demon will have to square off against one protector which = GOOD VICTORY.

Actually it equals a tie.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

What a tie?

*rechecks the rules*

Lame...

Okay, nevermind. I guess it is a tie. Sigh. Well, that makes the call to the chameleon slightly less appealing. Plan doesn't work if the Chameleon isn't honest.

 

[TentanariX]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

Lynch PLMNKO. Also I'm not sure how often I will be available, were kind of broke atm, so i wont get too many trips to town I'm afraid.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

Lynch PLMNKO. Also I'm not sure how often I will be available, were kind of broke atm, so i wont get too many trips to town I'm afraid.

One of the priestesses won't be meeting for her regular honoring of our citadel? BLASPHEMY! BY THE GODS, LYNCHING HER IS OF MOST IMPORTANCE!

 

[Bartnum]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

Lynch PLMNKO.

I'd like to hear your reasoning for that.

 

[SiphonTalvesh]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

If I had to guess, I'd say probably just because Blue did.

Honestly though, I'm a bit hesitant on your plan. In theory, it would work at least enough to confirm perhaps one demon, but as for the GG and Protector, it could be very dangerous.

Think of it this way.

GG and Protector Claim, which gives the demons their identities. Now common sense says the Protector will shield the GG, allowing her one more scan. Now strategy (assuming that this is what happens) would suggest the demon attacking tonight kills the Protector.

Tomorrow rises, and we have two scenarios. One is that the GG has found a demon, which makes the sacrifice worth it. Of course, I think we still have a tracker, so it's POSSIBLE that we discover the identity of one demon regardless, since the demon would almost certainly be thinking of attacking the unshielded protector.

Scenario two is that we only have one demon pinpointed, still making a sacrifice worth it.

However, another thought that just came to me.

What if the demon decides to attack the tracker (assuming she claims) instead, and takes a gamble that the GG doesn't hit tonight? In theory, this could happen.


Ugh, I think I just made my own damn head spin. The plan has some merit I'll give, but it also has a significant amount of risk to it as well, and I can't figure out a way to give it an acceptable margin.


((Sorry if this post makes no sense, fucking keyboard keeps glitching, so I keep losing my train of thought fixing the fucking thing. Ending my post here cuz I just lost what I was thinking of.))

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

Never said the plan didn't have risk - but imho it is less risky than blindly stabbing in the dark with lynches. Also, at least everyone would be clear on the scenarios that we would be facing. There's a comforting clarity that comes with knowing what you'll be up against.

The trouble is - and here I'll be my own worst critic - because I misread the protector rules I thought it was a win for the village if the Protector and one demon squared off, not a draw.

I was sort of counting on that to appeal to the chameleon to join team good. The plan falls apart if the Chameleon doesn't want to throw their lot in with the village - and if I were the chameleon (I'm not, but if I were) I would want to be reasonably assured of a victory.

The only thing I can promise the Chameleon is that if they are brave and come out, I as a villager will not lynch them and decry any such action as foul play. After all, the Chameleon is not necessarily our enemy - we want to kill demons and should concentrate on them.


PLAN B

So. Yeah. I'm now slightly hesitant to enact the plan without word from the Chameleon. Assuming they don't come forward, imo the next most reasonable thing we could do is to push someone to 3 votes, and force a claim from them. If no one counters that claim, we withdraw the votes and find another target. It's a slower process, but more certain. Also, it makes certain that the Chameleon won't counter today, because why in the world would they want to risk a 50-50 chance they get lynched before achieving a VC?

Anyone up for my Plan B? Or at least willing to consider and discuss it?

Also, since Tenta's availability is going to be flaky, I would suggest getting a claim out of her early, just to make sure she's not a silent demon.

 

[plmnko]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

Plmnko, if you had to vote on one person right now, who would you vote?

Lynch PLMNKO. Also I'm not sure how often I will be available, were kind of broke atm, so i wont get too many trips to town I'm afraid.

Now than i heard than TentanariX will be not available. I'm tempted to lynch her, anyway i maintain the no lynch for the moment.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

I don't want to outright kill Tenta - I want her to claim a role since she won't be available as often. If Tenta checks in and refuses to claim a role, then I guess it would be best to vote off a less than dependable player.

So I will unvote Plmnko and vote TentatriX. Don't lynch her though until she's had time to check in and claim a role (and give enough time for a counter claim, let's at least do this right people.)

 

[MMK]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

VOTES:

No Lynch (3 vote)
2. Hooker
3. PLMNKO

1. ToxicShock
PLMNKO ( 1 vote )
4. TentanariX

TentanariX ( 1 vote )
8. BlueSlime

(Withheld) (2 votes)
7. Bartnum
6. Siphon/Talvesh


Dead
5. Dreana --- DEAD (Rape) --- The Fool
There are 7 (living) players remaining - 4 votes are needed for the majority decision.

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

It's been over a day without any posts...

At this point, I think it's safe to say that we're not voting no lynch today. It should be noted that TentanariX hasn't said anything to counter Blue's "test" as it might be called. However, three more votes are needed to lynch her, and here we have three people who have refused to vote at all. If two more people vote, all it takes is the chameleon or one of the demons and good timing and suddenly Tenta dies. While her behavior is somewhat suspicious, I'd like to give her one more chance to defend herself. If someone is to die, which I'm still not sure is the best choice, as short of everyone revealing themselves(which, I have to say, would be a terrible gamble with the chameleon's loyalties still uncertain and with the possibility of her becoming a fool) we have nothing but guesses and more or less uncertain accusations, it might as well be TentanariX. I'm still not changing my vote just yet.

Also, I'd like to ask everyone who has yet to vote to reconsider their options. Barring any surprises, I think we're dealing with four possible options here, one of which requires someone who already voted to change their vote: No lynch, BlueSlime, plmnko and TentanariX. Even one more vote might make others re-engage in the discussion, and more talk seems to be needed still, lest we stay here long into the night. I, for one, would like some dinner, as the lunch time seems to have passed a long time ago.

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

I've been trying to let other people speak, because otherwise I'd just sound like I'm talking to myself, but yes, it has been very, very silent - which is disturbing because all the goods should be talking. Only the evils want to avoid attention.

By the way, Hooker, I'm just curious as to why I'm one of your four options for a vote today. Do you honestly read my efforts thus far as anti-village? I don't see that anyone in particular has stood out from the pack (because everyone else seems so damned happy with being silent).

If anyone were to put a quick 4th vote onto Tenta before they spoke, they'd be guaranteeing themselves a lynch tomorrow.

And if it isn't a demon who committed the act, we can force the demons to rape the chameleon because obviously they would want to absorb the dead fool's role and win by being lynched. If we make it a policy that we would definitely lynch anyone who made an early 4th vote, the demons would have to rape her or lose the game.

So under that policy, if the demons don't rape the person who put on the 4th vote, we'd lynch that person, because we could be sure that it was a demon.

This makes the chameleon afraid of doing it because then the demons would rape them, and the demons don't want to do it either, because they would be identifying one of themselves immediately. Obviously no villager would do it because we're the ones who benefit most from role claims.

 

[Hentaispider]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

I've been trying to let other people speak, because otherwise I'd just sound like I'm talking to myself, but yes, it has been very, very silent - which is disturbing because all the goods should be talking. Only the evils want to avoid attention.

By the way, Hooker, I'm just curious as to why I'm one of your four options for a vote today. Do you honestly read my efforts thus far as anti-village? I don't see that anyone in particular has stood out from the pack (because everyone else seems so damned happy with being silent).

Yes, I know. But talking the most does make you an obvious target, especially to demons. Plmnko isn't much of a logical choice, either. At the moment I accept that you're village sided. If you survive the night, that might change.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

I'm just upset with the fact that very little people actually spoke on the role changes one way or another. I even said I wouldn't do it unless certain conditions were met, but apparently that's too difficult for some.

No lynch

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

I'm just upset with the fact that very little people actually spoke on the role changes one way or another. I even said I wouldn't do it unless certain conditions were met, but apparently that's too difficult for some.

No lynch

A vote for no lynch is a vote to get no information for the village and give the demons a free kill.

Come on villagers, speak up! Vote for someone! If everyone votes for someone else, we'll be able to analyze that as well on following days. Would the demons vote on each other? Maybe, but would they hesitate to put a third vote on a fellow demon? Certainly.

By seeing where people are willing to put their votes, we can get a better vision of their mindset. A vote of no lynch is saying that we don't even want that sort of information to analyze.

If this keeps up, I'm going to start voting for the people who want no lynch. I'm certain that it's what the demons want - and I won't support it.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

A vote for no lynch is killing 1 instead of 2, allowing for another day of investigation. Keeping the deaths at a slow pace may be a way of slowly forcing people to at least acknowledge a plan as opposed to ignoring, as they've been doing, without getting overwhelmed

 

[BlueSlime]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

A vote for no lynch is killing 1 instead of 2, allowing for another day of investigation. Keeping the deaths at a slow pace may be a way of slowly forcing people to at least acknowledge a plan as opposed to ignoring, as they've been doing, without getting overwhelmed

No, there's no extra day from no lynch - unless you intend to do ANOTHER no lynch after that.

No lynch = 1 non demon dies.
Lynch = 1 non demon and one possible demon dies.

Goal of the game is to kill the demons before they reach parity. We have 7 remaining players, two of which are demons, who if they are both still alive will do their best to muck around with our votes. Good are strongest right now on Day 1. Voting is our only method of killing the demons.

If you want to look at it in another sense, here's the two scenarios:

No lynch -> Demons kill -> down to 6 players, 2 are demons.

Then we start voting and lynch, demons get another kill -> down to 4 players and if we didn't kill a demon by now, it's game over.
If we did manage to kill a demon, then it's 1 demon, vs 3 non demons (can't forget the neutral.)

If we lynch and miss then the demon kills again and achieves 1v1 parity.

Morale of the story: If we vote no lynch today, then we are playing a must lynch scenario for the rest of the game. Do you feel that lucky? I don't.

****
If we lynch and miss today, then tomorrow there will be 5 players, 2 are demons. Same scenario either way. Must lynch. So you're not saving a day by going no lynch. If we do miss and kill a villager, it allows the chameleon to absorb good's victory condition tonight.

However, that's assuming we miss today. If we do get a demon, then it's 1 vs 4 tomorrow. And if we claim roles, like I've been championing this whole time, the likelihood that we miss is drastically reduced, because we can potentially clear people before going into our lynch AND if anyone does any funny business like putting the 4th vote on a person too early, then they're outing themselves as an anti-villager.


Good has nothing to lose and everything to gain from putting pressure on people early and determining someone to lynch.

Imo, we have yet to get to that critical point. People on the fence need to get brave and take a stand - good roles should be eagerly forcing people to talk because this is the ONE day when it's guaranteed that there are more pro-villagers than demons+neutrals combined.

This day, we are guaranteed to control the vote. That's not necessarily the case tomorrow.

 

[SiphonTalvesh]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

A thought occurs to me.

Why would the Chameleon want to reveal themselves? I mean, think about it, logic says the Chameleon wants a 100% promise that they won't be lynched, something that they can't be sure of off words alone. Sure, we say we won't lynch them, but will everyone actually honor that? Chameleon can't be sure of that. So I think what happens with them is this:

Chameleon refuses to claim today. Tomorrow they might get cornered, but by then they can CLAIM (and they might very well have) taken the role of the fool, which leaves everyone wondering, is it a bluff or not? That's best case for the Chameleon, forcing a situation where when they come out and claim they were, but have taken the role of the fool, they have a 50-50 shot of keeping everyone FAR from them.


I'm hesitant to randomly lynch, and it's getting more and more obvious that no one is really buying into this plan. Not to mention the last time someone came out and backed you on this, they were immediately killed off. Granted, we won, but only because of some absolute sheer LUCK. I'm just not convinced this is going to work out so nicely this time around. And once again, I'm beginning to get a bit suspicious with this. One thing I've noticed with you in both of these is your very eager to force people to claim, but unwilling to follow your own example and claim first yourself. That to me is very suspicious. Right now, based on what I have, if I were going to lynch ANYONE, it would be you Blue.

I took the risk on your plan once already and got burned. I'm not making the same mistake twice, no dice.

No Lynch, though I reserve the right to change this if something USEFUL actually comes up.


((OOC: I'm beginning to grow tired of this, we're right back to the same stuff that killed this for what, almost a year? I'd like to suggest a time limit on how long these stalemates can go on for before we get auto-GM night. Otherwise if this keeps up I'm dropping out, just completely losing interest in these.))

 

[MMK]

Re: DTT : Game room (MMK's DTT)

VOTES:

No Lynch (4 vote) - Wins
2. Hooker
3. PLMNKO
6. Siphon/Talvesh
1. ToxicShock

PLMNKO ( 1 vote )
4. TentanariX

TentanariX ( 1 vote )
8. BlueSlime

(Withheld) (2 votes)
7. Bartnum

You decide, after a lengthy debate, that not killing anyone is best. Perhaps, if you're lucky, the Protector will counter the Demons action... or so you delude yourselves as you prepare to sleep off the long day of debateing.

Darkness Desends...

Night 2
(NIGHT Actions Please)
(From following persons - Demon 2, Protector, Tracker, Gifted, and optionally the Chameleon)
(Last minute rules clarification - the Tracker can identify if the Chameleon "visits" someone who is dead)