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RPG ADV WolfRPG NTR [Flamme Soft] いぬこちゃんは見習い魔女 (RJ367050)


Diaphanous

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I'm saying the dev personally is retarded making an NTR game and forgetting the tag.
I suppose that if the developer added the NTR tag, he would end up with a false advertisement of an opposite kind. The tag would attract players specifically interested in NTR, yet they would not find what they expect in the game, judging from its description in a message above. That would be a false advertisement by a misguiding mention, compared to the current false advertisement with the misguiding omission.

The problem boils down to the difference in perspectives on what NTR is, whether it requires emotional hits etc. The gray zone is broad, yet as the genre is already based on emotional laceration, many people would naturally prefer to steer clear from any remotely related elements. Perhaps the opposition between perspectives would compromise on proliferation of cases where borderline-NTR games get the NTR tag, regardless of whether they are NTR ot not. After all, it is easier to understand that an NTR-tagged game is not NTR (in a strict sense) from reading its description, than to perceive that a non-NTR-tagged game hides NTR content. Though not always, there was a similar discussion here about DREAMLAND, whether it was NTR or not, and that succubi game was a much weirder case. Its thread did have a blue NTR tag at one point, later removed.

Still, I think that could be a reason why the developer didn't add the NTR tag. Or he could have assumed that placing the tag would scare some of the prospective buyers, whatever. On that note, regarding Circle Tekua, their Succubus Tower 2 seemed more of a NTR game than this one. Simply due to a single bad ending, where the succubus-turned girlfriend of the MC kills him, then bursts into tears over his dying body as she discovers that he was still wearing a medallion she had once made for him. That single bad end from the dying MC's perspective, along with an explicit emphasis that, after his death, his despaired self-blaming girlfriend, as now a succubus, will endlessly mate with numberless men, was quite NTR-ish. Though that game didn't have such a tag, probably due to that scene being the only such one in the game. If this game has many less-intense NTR-ish endings (even if they are from FMC's perspective), that could make it more of NTR.
 

Aesthetic

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The tag would attract players specifically interested in NTR, yet they would not find what they expect in the game, judging from its description in a message above.
Meh, Karryn's Prison exist.

I don't fuck with NTR in the slightest but I've at least played Karryn's Prison and that game has like the most unobtrusive barely there but ever present NTR I've ever seen. I feel like it's a spectrum.

In this game literally all bad ends are either the heroine's love being stolen from her or by her.
There's even NTR in the main story where the heroine NTR's a man away from that man's girlfriend.

Tag your game with it, and as long as it's there I don't see why the fans of that content would be disappointed? Especially when all bad ends have it present?
The gray zone is broad, yet as the genre is already based on emotional laceration, many people would naturally prefer to steer clear from any remotely related elements. Perhaps the opposition between perspectives would compromise on proliferation of cases where borderline-NTR games get the NTR tag, regardless of whether they are NTR ot not.
Devs are retarded.

NTR is a strong element. Even in small doses it affects the product.
It's like gay content. If your game has some gay content, you should add the yaoi tag. If your game has some futa content you should add the futa tag. It doesn't need to be the majority of content. Circle Teckua's games are NOT majority futa, and yet they still tag their games futa.

Why develop a game where every bad end, the heroine's love is stolen from her, and then not give it an NTR tag? It makes no sense. It's almost like they developed an NTR game by accident, not realizing what they were doing, which takes an extra level of idiocy in my opinion.
Though not always, there was a similar discussion here about DREAMLAND, whether it was NTR or not, and that succubi game was a much weirder case. Its thread did have a blue NTR tag at one point, later removed.
I don't know about that. I remember a discussion on Bestiality in Dreamland but not NTR specifically...
On that note, regarding Circle Tekua, their Succubus Tower 2 seemed more of a NTR game than this one. Simply due to a single bad ending, where the succubus-turned girlfriend of the MC kills him, then bursts into tears over his dying body as she discovers that he was still wearing a medallion she had once made for him. That single bad end from the dying MC's perspective, along with an explicit emphasis that, after his death, his despaired self-blaming girlfriend, as now a succubus, will endlessly mate with numberless men, was quite NTR-ish
Bro that's reaching. She fucking killed him. You can't cuck the dead.

Also I didn't even know that was possible. You can't die in the game after all. That sounds sad tho ngl.
____
Either way, back to the game.
If this game has many less-intense NTR-ish endings (even if they are from FMC's perspective), that could make it more of NTR.
There's 2 endings out of I think 8 where the heroine winds up with the person she likes. (And in 1 of those endings he's an invalid)
Every other ending where she doesn't it's implied that her love is never fulfilled, and his romantic expectations are never resolved, with her just slutting around or dead.

The Male LI ain't shit in this story I won't lie. The fact that he exists actively ruins the eroticism of the story, by adding the NTR angle in the first place, but it's clear in the best ending that he did have romantic attachments for the main heroine, so the feelings go both ways. He must be on the spectrum or something because he has a hard time realizing it and coming to terms with his own desires.

And off the top of my head,
1. Inuko is raped by an incubus which gives the stereotypical NTR banged kiss with a cocky grin. After fucking Inuko gets impregnated and cries. Cause she failed the exam and there's no way her feelings will get realized like that.
2. She gets raped by bandits, then overwhelms the bandits sexually. She becomes the bandits leaders, and continues to fuck the bandits forever.
3. She gets raped by an orc lord, but has too much sexual stamina. The orc lord take her back home, and rape her for as much as he wants in front of his orc army, and she mentions to herself that she wishes she could've been with her master instead and she just forgets about her original love as the orc lord fills her up.
4. She gets raped by a plant monster and forgets about her original goal, never fulfilling anything.
5. She gets raped by a slime, and falls in love with the pleasure. She falls head over heels in love with the slime and doesn't think about leaving it.

In ending 6 there's a chance she might fulfill her feelings, since it's left open ended, but it's a lesbian assault scene. It could go either way.
In ending 7, the master gets what he wants and he gives all his magic to Inuko and becomes an invalid. Inuko basically kills her master in this ending and she's depressed at what she did.

In ending 8. It's a happy end, where they both verify each other's feelings for each other (Missionary end)

Does this not sound like an NTR game? Am I being crazy here? And don't forget that's JUST the endings. I also mentioned the content that happens while playing the game.
 
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Shingle

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the most rabid NTR fans/haters define NTR as any female character having relations with any character other than the main male character, so from that lens, its easy to see how this could get the tag
 

Diaphanous

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There's even NTR in the main story where the heroine NTR's a man away from that man's girlfriend.
Technically, the whole Torte's route in Succubus Tower is close to this, seen from the stolen MC's perspective and achieved by his voluntary compliance day after day. Torte even openly mocks the MC for double infidelity while raping him both in his dream and on the bed next to his girlfriend. Torte is still very cute, she doesn't mind the MC's first girlfriend joining the harem, and her animated cameo scenes in this game are intriguing. Thanks for bumping the thread, on that note.

Tag your game with it, and as long as it's there I don't see why the fans of that content would be disappointed? Especially when all bad ends have it present?
Does this not sound like an NTR game?
That could be the issue with the NTR content dosage or, in fact yes, the developer being weird and chasing two rabbits while ALSO pretending not to. On the one hand, the heroine gets stolen from her love interest in nearly every ending. On the other hand, it seems to be a standard lewd FMC game, with the heroine's love interest added into the background for some reason. That differs from games with a strict NTR focus, where the progressing steady destruction of the romantic feelings between the MC and the heroine would lead the narrative at all stages. Instead of being slapped onto the endings, as is apparently the case with this game.

But as the NTR is a strong element, adding it in a small dosage seems a weird choice. That would be displeasing to the larger portion of players, while not exactly sufficient for specific others. In part because NTR, unlike, for instance, futanari or guro, is not a "static" element that can be portrayed in a single scene, but rather corresponds to a specific type of a story progression. Or maybe that's me relying on an outdated narrow understanding. As of late, there seem to be more games with NTR elements where NTR is not integral to story, but feels superficially slapped onto a story which wouldn't change anyhow with the removal of this content.

Either way, it is one thing when such games are marketed as NTR, and another when they are not. Concerning the thread game, its design seems to me to be the source of weirdness, not just the game tagging.

As another hypothesis, perhaps the developer wanted to make bad endings that actually have something bad about them. To avoid in this way the frequent case with "bad" endings in lewd games being bad in name only, as they only bring more sex for the heroine (so avoiding them is pointless, on the contrary, better to collect them all).

I remember a discussion on Bestiality in Dreamland but not NTR specifically...
Yeah, there was a discussion about both not-clearly-shown demons in cellar stables (not) being bestiality and NTR. Technically, the frame of the Dreamland did resemble that of an NTR game, due to the male MC's perspective and the initial heroines getting abducted and fucked in captivity while the MC peacefully sleeps next to a cute succubus. So, there was that allusive progressing teasing of jealousy, seemingly absent in the thread game.

Bro that's reaching. She fucking killed him. You can't cuck the dead.

Also I didn't even know that was possible. You can't die in the game after all. That sounds sad tho ngl.
To me, the "heroine killing her boyfriend and having lots of sex with other men afterward" looks like an extreme version of the "heroine abandoning her boyfriend and having lots of sex with other men afterward". But yeah, it felt grim and completely different from the game mood. At least that ending was very hard to trigger involuntarily, as it required both losing to Sophie in the end of her love route AND wearing her medallion as an accessory. Without that medallion, which gave practically no stat boosts unlike other accessories in slot, the loss would be just like any other loss to a succubus, without Sophie's despairing outburst about their love that she has destroyed herself. I only found out about that ending thanks to the translator’s commentaries in a text file.
As for dying in that game, technically every loss in a Succubus Tower resulted in the MC dying after getting his vitality sucked out of him, if I remember correctly. Though it wasn't dramatic at all, given the game light-heartedness, more like a justification why people are too shy to welcome their succubi overlords. Though in a later Circle Tekua game, Lilith in a Nightmare, there was that distinction between "the MC is in a dreamworld, here the MC can't die even if sucked out by a succubi" and the scary blond succubus Succubus actually killing the MC through a dream just because she can, with the screen turning blood red and the game kicking back to the main menu unlike after other lost fights.

Either way, I am not arguing against the NTR tag fitting the thread game. At first I thought it was another case of a non-NTR/borderline-NTR game getting an NTR tag. Now it seems to me that its creator added an NTR angle to a non-NTR game for some weird reason.
 

Aesthetic

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the most rabid NTR fans/haters define NTR as any female character having relations with any character other than the main male character, so from that lens, its easy to see how this could get the tag
I think you screwed the pooch by saying
main male character

Because yeah that's obvious. Why have a main male love interest in a FeMC slut game? Those are just instantly NTR games, no extra context required.
Torte even openly mocks the MC for double infidelity while raping him both in his dream and on the bed next to his girlfriend. Torte is still very cute, she doesn't mind the MC's first girlfriend joining the harem, and her animated cameo scenes in this game are intriguing. Thanks for bumping the thread, on that note.
Yeah, I'll call that shit out too honestly. I never did like how CT handled Succubi in their stories.
As for dying in that game, technically every loss in a Succubus Tower resulted in the MC dying after getting his vitality sucked out of him, if I remember correctly.
What I remember is that every loss is "just a dream" and you wake up in your bed at home with half the EXP because it was just a dream.

Either way, I am not arguing against the NTR tag fitting the thread game. At first I thought it was another case of a non-NTR/borderline-NTR game getting an NTR tag. Now it seems to me that its creator added an NTR angle to a non-NTR game for some weird reason.
The way I see it, he wanted to make a FeMC slut game, but couldn't help wanting to add a main love interest.

Which is dumb.

He chased two rabbits and got NTR.
 

2-tall

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He chased two rabbits and got NTR.
Would you call Princess Colosseum an NTR game? The Protagonist in the Bad Ends usually gets made into a sex-slave by a woman other than his wife. His wife who he went to that city to find. His wife who he already has a child with.
 
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Aesthetic

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Would you call Princess Colosseum an NTR game? The Protagonist in the Bad Ends usually gets made into a sex-slave by a woman other than his wife. His wife who he went to that city to find. His wife who he already has a child with.
Reverse NTR is still NTR, and should be tagged as such.

As a guy though, I'm way more OK with Reverse NTR than regular NTR tho.
 

Shingle

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fuck, internet 'debates' about what is and isn't NTR are always asinine. I wouldn't be sad if this whole thread was nuked, and I'm ashamed I contributed to it
 
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The vast majority of endings are NTR ends where the main heroine's love is taken from her.
____

I get it if you like NTR, but it's not good to try to trick people who hate that shit, into stumbling across your game. Don't you agree that it's much better to mark your games properly so people who hate the content won't even see it to later complain about it like me?
WTF, dude. Real NTR is when you're playing as a guy and someone steals your girl. How you can be butthurt over playing as a girl who gets separated from her master is beyond me, lmao.
Karryn's Prison has like no emotional hits and it's also an NTR game. At least that dev has brains and even though the NTR elements aren't super strong in that game he has the minimum amount of brain cells to make sure people who hate that shit can avoid that shit.
That's the other way around, buddy. NTR is one of the most popular tags on Dlsite, so devs usually try to add it even if there's no NTR at all. Any NTR fan will tell you that it's not NTR if you're playing as a girl. It's just cheating, if she dates a dude or has a husband. If it gives you EMOTIONAL DAMAGE, then it's on you and your sensitivity.
 

Aesthetic

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WTF, dude. Real NTR is when you're playing as a guy and someone steals your girl.
Most NTR games are FeMC games?
How you can be butthurt over playing as a girl who gets separated from her master is beyond me, lmao.
Feelings don't have to make logical sense. It doesn't matter if it's from the man or woman's perspective. If either causes emotional pain for their partners or themselves that way then it's always bad.
NTR is one of the most popular tags on Dlsite, so devs usually try to add it even if there's no NTR at all.
This is supreme reach. Even Alicesoft tries to stay away from the tag, not tagging Dohna Dohna with it even though it has NTR bad ends.
 
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Netorare
Netori
Netorase
etc...
Netorare - that's what is usually called NTR. Someone steals a girl from the protagonist.
Netori - usually no one tags it as NTR, or there's a separate tag. The protagonist steals a girl from someone.
Netorase - usually just called cuckolding. The protagonist shares his partner with other people willingly.
And there's no "etc", those are only three types of "NTR", though there's also reverse NTR - when someone steals a partner from a girl.
Also, we talk about tags on dlsite, and there are two tags—netorare and netori.
Most NTR games are FeMC games?
No, lol. 80-90% of netorare games have male MC. And FeMC games using netorare tag are just misusing the tag the wrong way to get more popularity. That's how tags on Dlsite work.

Feelings don't have to make logical sense. It doesn't matter if it's from the man or woman's perspective. If either causes emotional pain for their partners or themselves that way then it's always bad.
Feelings absolutely can have logical sense as they are based on your personal values.

This is supreme reach. Even Alicesoft tries to stay away from the tag, not tagging Dohna Dohna with it even though it has NTR bad ends.
Do you realize that Dohnna Dohnna is a game about prostitution? Lmao. If you feel emotionally attached to a hooker, then it's up to you. Alice Soft has many purely netorare focused games, wtf are you smoking dude, they have Heartful Maman, Tsumamigui and Housewife's Healing Touch, to name a few, games that have netorare tag and are promoted as netorare games, and they have actual netorare, aka your romantic interest being fucked silly by another dude and stolen from the MC. Games like Dohnna and Rance series don't have ntr tags because they don't have netorare in the traditional sense. You need emotional investment from the protagonist's point of view to truly consider something as netorare. If he doesn't give a shit about a girl who's being fucked by another dude, like in Rance's case, then it's not netorare. When you're a pimp who sleeps with his workers, you aren't ntred when they are used by their clients, because they are just a tool to you. Your problem is that you can't see the difference between NTR and "sex with others". Alice Soft is a big developer so they can't afford to misuse the tags unlike smaller ones.
 

Subtle

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Do you realize that Dohnna Dohnna is a game about prostitution? Lmao. If you feel emotionally attached to a hooker, then it's up to you. Alice Soft has many purely netorare focused games, wtf are you smoking dude, they have Heartful Maman, Tsumamigui and Housewife's Healing Touch, to name a few, games that have netorare tag and are promoted as netorare games, and they have actual netorare, aka your romantic interest being fucked silly by another dude and stolen from the MC. Games like Dohnna and Rance series don't have ntr tags because they don't have netorare in the traditional sense. You need emotional investment from the protagonist's point of view to truly consider something as netorare. If he doesn't give a shit about a girl who's being fucked by another dude, like in Rance's case, then it's not netorare. When you're a pimp who sleeps with his workers, you aren't ntred when they are used by their clients, because they are just a tool to you. Your problem is that you can't see the difference between NTR and "sex with others". Alice Soft is a big developer so they can't afford to misuse the tags unlike smaller ones.
Dohna Dohna has Dead Ends for each heroine of the main party (which I don't consider NTR since it involves Kuma getting himself killed), and Defilement choices which alter each heroine's original first-time scenes with Kuma if they were raped by villains first (and also locks out their Happy Ends with him even if he reaches Lv8 Affection with them, since these choices involve him either not saving them at the first opportunity or otherwise not heeding the warnings if he deviates).
The hooker scenes are just side characters' corruption routes, and NONE of those side characters are considered part of the main party.
 
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DarkFire1004

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This starting to unwind a bit too much. If you'd like to continue to discuss the definition of NTR more, please make a new thread elsewhere.

The NTR prefix will still stay on this thread.
 
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Btw, if someone wants this game to actually feel like a real NTR then you can just watch Korone from hololive, treat her like your waifu and imagine that it's she in the game... because I'm pretty much sure that the heroine is based on her, lol.
 
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