FPS H-Games?

[Jesus]

I'm curious as to why there aren't more - In fact the only ones I know of are Hdoom which is really not my cup of tea (And was probably done more as a joke), and a really old (~2007? 8?) one that had you going through cramped subterranean tunnels on some planet, interspersed with the odd bit of lab space. I think it was mars but maybe not. Oh, and mods for Fallout/TES but they kinda don't count.

Anyway the reason it irks me that there aren't more first-person H act games is that 2d games have to be either really creative and have a lot of effort put in to making them, or full of bullshit just to be sufficiently challenging when it comes to combat, otherwise they're completely boring - So this isn't to say that all 2d games are bad (Many great examples here on this forum), but many of them fail in control fluidity, platforming and general gameplay design. There are a million and one side-scrollers where the gameplay can be explained as "shoot/slash/stab/kick the enemies before they get close to you".

Take Hounds of the Blade for example - how many of you can say you genuinely lost without setting the difficulty up to the level at which it's impossible to escape grabs? Or Xenotake (Sorry Vosmug)? I loved everything about that game, except the gameplay. You're either shooting left, or shooting right, and you're either firing fast enough to kill the enemies in that direction before they touch you or you're not. If you've any experience with gaming, you will be. And that's not even the worst gameplay example, there are plenty examples of poorly coded or low-effort messes that would get laughed out of Steam Greenlight (if sexual content were a non-factor).

So what am I getting at? It boils down to three things for me: Player awareness, enemy behavior, and control.

While in most 2d games (With the exception of Anthophobia being the only one afaik) you can see everything unobstructed, in FPS you can't see through walls, floors, around corners or behind you. This means enemies have many more potential vectors of attack to exploit. When you make the absolute most basic of each type of game (Or when all factors other than spatial dimensions are the same), in other words enemies with uniform health and uniform speed at uniform altitudes moving towards a stationary player, the 3d game will always be the most challenging. Add in flying enemies, ones that bob and weave, fast ones and slow ones, and both get even more challenging; the 2d example however will be limited by the fact you're only ever looking one of two directions, assuming it obscures anything in the opposite. In the 3d space you have three times as many blind spots.
Speaking of blind spots, another aspect is level design. You don't get blind corners in 2d unless it has a line-of-sight system.

So to summarise what I'm saying; It's much harder for players to be surprised, ambushed or overwhelmed in a 2d space than a 3d one from the first person. In the context of Action-H games I see this as very important in giving the player a meaningful gameplay experience that informs the pornographic component rather than acting as a token to justify it.

"But Jesus," you say, "Making 3d assets is hard!". I have no doubt about that. But here's the beauty of it. Remember Doom? That seminal (harhar) FPS that hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people still play to this day? Every "Actor" in that game, as well as many environmental assets, are sprites. The detail on walls, floors and ceilings is all 2d. But the gameplay is all in 3d and it takes advantage of everything I talked about above. The only real difference in asset creation I can think of is the levels themselves, which in Doom is about as simple as it gets, and coding enemies which is doubtlessly much harder. Not to say that such a game would have to be made on ID Tech 1, I imagine you could do 3d environments/2d enemies in UE4 or Unity.

So what this really boils down to is "Why has nobody made a hentai Doom-clone/WAD?" (Hdoom doesn't count)

 

[Zepheral]

Re: FPS H-Games?

I guesses it appeals to the majority, if people can't see how the character is getting molested or raped, then they don't want it. First person is a great idea but, that kind of stuff fits better if you have virtual goggles on.

 

[Jesus]

Re: FPS H-Games?

I guesses it appeals to the majority, if people can't see how the character is getting molested or raped, then they don't want it. First person is a great idea but, that kind of stuff fits better if you have virtual goggles on.

Oh I should've clarified this - Sex scenes wouldn't take place from first person, you'd view it from the third. Though, 1p would be a nice option. Unfortunately impractical with sprites, but if such a game were to be made 3d it wouldn't be as difficult. A lot of what I said also applies to third-person, over-the-shoulder shooters which would probably be the ideal compromise.

I also neglected to talk about top-down games, of which there are very few, the two examples that come to mind are both discontinued, those being the Last Demon Hunter and Dark Parasite. You can still be attacked from 360 degrees, but the element of verticality is lost. That and that particular perspective doesn't offer the best viewing angle, both these games rely on "cut-ins", where what's going on in the gameplay is somewhat disconnected from the scene.

 

[TouchFluffyTail]

Re: FPS H-Games?

I guesses it appeals to the majority, if people can't see how the character is getting molested or raped, then they don't want it. First person is a great idea but, that kind of stuff fits better if you have virtual goggles on.

^This and AAA games (good ones) cost MILLIONS to make.
Most of the studios that make H games don't have the funds for something like that, the rest are even in a worse position being indies...
Also, I highly doubt this genre will attract large crowds even if the studio did have the funds - they will go bankrupt after the release.

Lastly... you will have to use both hands to play this.

 

[lurker]

Re: FPS H-Games?

Well, minus the issue of required hands, unless yer a crazy that- like me- usually unlocks things when available first for that... Well, anything with a third dimension is always a bit harder, add in for something in a 3D setup, well, let's face it. For one actor, you require:

- A model, of course.
- Textures, no doubt for several layers of character model (specially if yer doing cum effects)
- Considering we're talking sexual games, no doubt a rather complex outfit mesh/texture/etc that can be, ahem, manipulated in various ways.
- Animations, so many of them really. Idles, movement, manipulation of environment and objects, and of course sexual-based poses for reaction to your scenes.

It's one of the biggest reasons that in order for TES and Fallout's naughty mods to work, it takes up a HUGE amount of script space for the papyrus engine that's used for the later ones. There's just so much required to make the sexual stuff functional. Just imagine doing that all without the baseline work those mods get with bodies and an already working engine, which means you would need to factor in environments and other things, and it's a monumental task.

With that said, I'd totally would love to see someone try to incorporate a shooter into a sex game somehow. It'd be a nice change of pace.

 

[dood]

Re: FPS H-Games?

There was that bullet wet dream released last year by konjacut

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Though everyone I've heard talking about this game treats it like its shovelware. The demo doesn't seem too bad though.

 

[Jesus]

Re: FPS H-Games?

Well, minus the issue of required hands, unless yer a crazy that- like me- usually unlocks things when available first for that... Well, anything with a third dimension is always a bit harder, add in for something in a 3D setup, well, let's face it. For one actor, you require:

- A model, of course.
- Textures, no doubt for several layers of character model (specially if yer doing cum effects)
- Considering we're talking sexual games, no doubt a rather complex outfit mesh/texture/etc that can be, ahem, manipulated in various ways.
- Animations, so many of them really. Idles, movement, manipulation of environment and objects, and of course sexual-based poses for reaction to your scenes.

It's one of the biggest reasons that in order for TES and Fallout's naughty mods to work, it takes up a HUGE amount of script space for the papyrus engine that's used for the later ones. There's just so much required to make the sexual stuff functional. Just imagine doing that all without the baseline work those mods get with bodies and an already working engine, which means you would need to factor in environments and other things, and it's a monumental task.

With that said, I'd totally would love to see someone try to incorporate a shooter into a sex game somehow. It'd be a nice change of pace.

TBH mods for TES/Fallout are in a world of their own; They're there to allow functionality that the base game wasn't built around in the first place, and each go to varying degrees to integrate themselves with the game in question's open world, even lore. That and as far as I've gleaned, papyrus is an absolute technical nightmare. These games and the mods for them are much larger in scope than a simple "kill or be killed" FPS in the most traditional sense (eg Doom or Duke Nukem) which in my mind are the best analog for contemporary Action H games.

When it comes to 3d assets, there are a lot of 2d h-games that use them, pre-rendered or not. Some have real-time 3d environments, but 2d sprites for characters and enemies, some have 2d environments and/or gameplay but 3d characters and enemies.
As I said before, if a FPS H game were to be made, a "Doom clone" with 3d environments and action-based gameplay with 2d actors would probably be the most expedient to make.

In response to the other two posters, I didn't want to have to say this more than once: First-person gameplay =! first-person sex scenes

I forgot to mention lighting in the OP

 

[dood]

Re: FPS H-Games?

TBH mods for TES/Fallout are in a world of their own; They're there to allow functionality that the base game wasn't built around in the first place, and each go to varying degrees to integrate themselves with the game in question's open world, even lore. That and as far as I've gleaned, papyrus is an absolute technical nightmare. These games and the mods for them are much larger in scope than a simple "kill or be killed" FPS in the most traditional sense (eg Doom or Duke Nukem) which in my mind are the best analog for contemporary Action H games.

When it comes to 3d assets, there are a lot of 2d h-games that use them, pre-rendered or not. Some have real-time 3d environments, but 2d sprites for characters and enemies, some have 2d environments and/or gameplay but 3d characters and enemies.
As I said before, if a FPS H game were to be made, a "Doom clone" with 3d environments and action-based gameplay with 2d actors would probably be the most expedient to make.

In response to the other two posters, I didn't want to have to say this more than once: First-person gameplay =! first-person sex scenes

I forgot to mention lighting in the OP

Did you try bullet wet dream. You do have first person sex scenes. And you play in the first person. Granted its not what you wanted specifically there's no monsters/girls that try to ambush you and rape you. Instead the girls are just powerups and you fight at the same time you're having sex with them.

Am I still wrong for bringing it up?

 

[Jesus]

Re: FPS H-Games?

You're not wrong for bringing it up, no, I just thought you'd misinterpreted what I was saying, my bad. There's nothing inherently wrong with first person sex but I think most players would prefer to view the scenes from the third.

I didn't try the game, it's interesting in concept, though the gameplay looks very poor. Take away the fucking, is even still fun or challenging for all the right reasons?

I guess this is pretty much the failure I see in H games as a whole. Take away the adult content, and is it still something you would play? There are very few existing cases in which I'd answer yes to that question - Generally the only reason I'll play such games is because they provide varying degrees of dynamic context to the adult content unlike movies and VNs which have very little or nothing in the way of player-determination of events. This, as I explained in a thread about it, is probably why Skyrim and Fallout adult mods are so popular - the games those mods are built on are already fun enough to keep some people playing for hundreds of hours, and there are endless different variations of the context of the situations you find yourself in - when that extends to adult content, it's practically unrivaled.

Other games, adult content or no, have varying degrees of context variation. For example, Doom - An extremely linear game (Though with less-than-linear level design), has no changes the player can make to the sequence of events that take place on the meta level, ie you finish E1M1, you move on to E1M2 - However, the context of each fight you have within the episodes and levels can differ wildly, by how much depends on how far in an episode you are. One player might have got chewed up and spat out the last room over leaving them an extremely challenging fight in the next, with nothing but 20hp and a bit of pistol ammo left, while another player might've found the secret rocket launcher and got through the last room completely unscathed, much better prepared to take on the horde of pinkies waiting around the corner.

This extends to adult games with clothing damage, arousal and some focus on supply management/economization. For example, Malise an the Machine - Maybe over the last few battles, both characters had their suits destroyed making them much more vulnerable in the next. Maybe the player wasted all their medkits, or maybe the last few battles were handled flawlessly and the player still has a huge stockpile of supplies. Maybe they took a few hits that raised their lust by a lot, making them more vulnerable to grapples.

My point boils down to this: The more your previous actions throughout a game influence the potential outcome of a current situation, the more context each gameplay event can have - which is important in games where the adult content is integrated in to the gameplay, as the more context a fictional event has, the more effective it is in achieving its artistic purpose.
As to my original point, most H games lack the depth in gameplay to give each event sufficiently varied context.

Think back to the Doom example. The average player will experience a number of different feelings, but what it mostly comes down to is tension and release. Got low health and no ammo with more than half the map to go through? Tension. Found a megasphere and a plasma gun, and you're mowing down hordes of enemies? Release.

Now take Xenotake: Mash X when looking in the direction of the enemies and you will kill them before they can get a hit in; You have infinite ammo, and you're showered with health and armor kits. Is it challenging? No. Is it any surprise when the character gets fucked? No, because more often than not you have to go out of your way to allow it to happen. There's very little tension to the moments leading up to combat or the combat its self, so there's very little release in either being victorious or defeated in its specific context. Again I hate using this game as a negative example because I love the art so much, but it's too perfect as one not to. Fortunately, the next game its developer is making does improve on this entire aspect.


So, that turned in to a bit of an essay. So how does this relate to FPS H-games? Well, to put it simply: I feel they offer the most natural path to varying context within gameplay, adult content or no.

Edit: Funnily enough, Vosmug (Xenotake's dev) just had an interview with DLSite, and talk of context does come up there.

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What I failed to mention is how many of these games create context through exposition through character dialog, environments and worldbuilding. This is never bad - Of course the setting and characters inform that context of the gameplay, but they don't dictate the context within it. If anything, I think that Xenotake would have been better off as a CYOA/VN because the dev would have much more direct control over the context - while this becomes more restrictive for the player, it also allows much more cohesion in the sequence of events (And probably cuts way back on development time)

Here's an earlier post I made along the same lines. The thread's title is "What makes you play Hentai Games?"

For me, it's almost the same as asking why do I prefer video games to movies? Why do I value interactive entertainment, over passive? This is something I say a lot, but for me, it's the way context feeds in to a scene. To put it succinctly, video games allow for a broad range of possible contexts and nuances. You can watch a movie or TV show or porno and the fights/battles/sex scenes/car chases/pizza delivery/boiler maintenance will play out exactly the same every time. The Americans are invading Omaha beach, the same guy gets his arm blown off and picks it up, Tom Hanks shoots at the same tank with the same 1911. An exemplification of the other extreme as it relates to adult gaming, would be all the TES/Fallout adult mods that are out there. Of course, each sex animation plays out the same each time, but the context in which it's initiated can be completely different; With a certain mod, you can start the game off as a bandit slave. Or, you can be playing the game as normal sneaking through a dungeon, but the bandits get the drop on you, fuck you and leave you in a ditch with nothing to rely on but your fists. Or using that alternate start mod, you can (probably) roleplay as a bandit and go around raping and pillaging and raping some more to your heart's content (you fucking sicko)

A great number of adult and hentai games are somewhere in between. Take for example LineMarvel or Koonsoft's games - again the scenes play out the same, but the context can still differ - Are you about to lose to this next enemy, or is it the first hit you took? Or maybe you're on a different level.

This by and large extends to a great many games. Call of Duty's single player isn't far removed from the passive experience of a movie on the grand scale of things, but you can still have a different experience to someone else at any given point. You might've walked through the enemies like a breeze, or you might instead have been getting your ass kicked. You might have gone to a certain piece of cover and got that sniper before he could shoot you instead of choosing a different path and getting shot by him.

So yes, depth of gameplay does factor in to how much I enjoy the content in an adult game - especially if there is more to do than either kill/avoid the enemies, or get fucked by them.


The flipside of the coin is that movies, comics, books - "static" media can have a lot more detail put in to each scene or event - going with the Saving Private Ryan example, you could recreate the each scene in, say, one of the ArmA games. Nobody will get their arm blown off, pick it up and walk off; nobody will shoot desperately at a panzer while propping themselves up on a bridge, nobody will get shot in the helmet and survive, take it off to look at it then get shot in the head. That's where scripting comes in, and as little a fan as I am, Call of Duty does it exceptionally well. These events that couldn't be pulled off convincingly if it were in a dynamic fashion, or would be pointless to be able to happen dynamically, can still be implemented in a linear or multi-path linear story. Like I explained though, there's still always room for things to play out differently each time.

 

[TouchFluffyTail]

Re: FPS H-Games?

Essay by Jesus

Essay or not, I enjoyed reading that!
You get an A+