General HRPG discussion

[bankss]

I've seen a ton of HRPG's, some of them very similar, some of them unique and very customized.
I want to know your tastes, so here are some questions

• 
  What things make a better or worse game?
  

• 
  What things do you miss on general HRPG's (Story, Customization, CG's, etc)?

• 
  How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve (Development surveys, more participation from the users. etc)?

• 
  Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?

ULMF is a nice site, but a great community, I'd like to know what you think

 

[obligitury]

Re: General HRPG discussion

What i personally think is if a hentaiRPG has combat rape its a better game already. but theres alot more game over rape then there is combat rape. tho i do miss when there was custom enemy pictures to use as enemies instead of the generic ones. i personally think the market could do better if it showed a battle system (if the game had one) in some of the screenshots so we get a better idea of what kind of game it is. and i dont really do patreon much.

 

[Bryanis]

Re: General HRPG discussion

That's quite the interesting and difficult question at the same time.

I guess the answer will be different for the japanese market / player and the westerner market / player.

Since we're talking about H-RPG then without hesitation, the story, gameplay and the character are an important factor to make the game better.
It's a bit harder with japanese game you don't understand that well even with translating tool.

Still, I really think game with a coherent and interesting story / character / gameplay are the best.

In general HRPG I miss the most some difference. Too many are like the other - few basic scene, same kind of copy / paste story & MC.
The one thing I miss the most is multiple story line. The kind of game where you can branch of in different sub story in the main story, with side story concerning different character.
I also miss really different character - many time there different character, but most have just the tank / heal / dps build without much difference. I'd love to see game with character having special skill / talent really related to their personality.

For the market improvement, I think the 2 best line of aproach would be 1) more quality over quantity (when you see the amount of thrash HRPG - especially rpg maker one). 2) more player return taken into account by the dev. You too often see dev making the same kind of game with the same thing even when they were flooded by comment pointing flaw in the game.
Ok, I know it's hard to take criticism and turn it into valuable change to your work / way of thinking ...


For the moment, I rather like buying full game over patreon due to the number of patreon who never make it or break many promise, but as more and more deliver the promised product taking into account the backer comment, I'll probably turn my coat.

I'll personnaly also would love to see more japanese HRPG translated into english, even if it's just "officially" using fan made translation (to open the eyes of the japanese dev to the westerner market maybe ?), but that another debat I think - or at least just a side of this one.

PS : It's getting late so I haven't really made a well structured text, nor have I said all I had to say - sorry.

 

[DawnCry]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Well to answer those questions i will say why i started to play h-games, and that was to find more human interactions, I think that there are two primal desires in all people, destruction and lust.

What I truly like and makes me think that a game is good is when i can't easily guess what will happen because of my choices, be it that in the long run it may affect me or not.

Perhaps what i love the most is feel as part of the game. Most h-games unfortunately give you a lot of control, too much if i say.

To show how would it be for me a great game i will make an example:

Do you know all those visual novels that are almost telling you to choose a route and that's it? it's exactly the opposite what i want, what i like is that the characters want to interact with me, perhaps because of the personality i gave my character a girl has fallen in love with him, so she is trying to force events with my character, have any of you seen the game yandere simulator? then it would be as if i played as the sempai (not like i want a yandere as a girlfriend, that's scary in RL).

If you want to make a great h game i think that it would be more funny that way.

Another point that determines if a game is great or not is the details, having an unique menu, custom art everywhere, enemys with unique sprites... everything cost money of course, but some of them could be easily made like having a great menu for the game, or coding something a bit different. For example i don't like how legend of queen opala doesn't even add custom stats to the menu, some may think that not knowing how to code and making a game is being resorceful, but many people forget that knowing how to code doesn't make you less resorceful.

Extra: About the patreon model it's not wrong to use it... however that isn't supposed to be the way it should be used. You should never give a game for free, the supporters should receive a copy for free if they gave x money and that's it. Personally i think that for now the kickstarter model is better... if you know what the actual crisis is about then you would understand, it's not wrong to support people, however if people think that they will make more profit by just developing than selling then that's the point when it's fucked up.

 

[Keep]

Re: General HRPG discussion

I've seen a ton of HRPG's, some of them very similar, some of them unique and very customized.
I want to know your tastes, so here are some questions

• 
  What things make a better or worse game?

.. the obvious things. Gameplay, Art, Story, characters, and so on.
hard to actually say "this feature makes a great game", in the end there comes a lot around, and making up for weaknesses tends to be harder.
so i'd say the easier question would be: what makes a game bad ?

• 
  What things do you miss on general HRPG's (Story, Customization, CG's, etc)?

most of it is RPG Maker, you have to grind your way through sometimes and gets just kinda boring gameplay-wise.
and damn, most of the time youre even an adventurer living in a world with a meadival fantasy setting.

• 
  How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve (Development surveys, more participation from the users. etc)?

thats actually very dev-specific, not much to discuss here, at least from my side.

• 
  Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?

its great that a lot of devs are either givng out large demos or complete games for free - regardless of payment methods.
just feels kinda sad sometimes that there isnt a lot of money coming around for most of those guys.

 

[Jikorde]

Re: General HRPG discussion

1. This depends pretty strongly on the individual. Some people will write off a game completely based on lack of animations or in battle sex. Others just want the theme for their fetish to be done well. I just want something with routes and characters that are at least a little interesting with porn that's more then five lines long.

An important thing to make a good hentai game is being consistent to the theme. Don't throw a rape scene in a true love story, don't have a character flip flop slut/virgin in how they act and so on. While some games go for the variety route of having everything to appease everyone, chances are you will scare off just as many people who want only a small part of what you are offering.

Making a game worse is easy. Make the gameplay to complex or grindy to be enjoyably, have nonsensical goals or lack of any explanation to what the player should be doing.

2.Things do I miss? Love stories or really anything that isn't rape/corruption. The number of corruption RPG Maker hentai games compared to any other genres/fetishes is ridiculous. I just wish more games that are double A Japanese things were being localized, like Suzukuri Dragon or Galzoo Island. Good games that actually tell a complete story that also contain porn.

3.No idea. Honestly the market is reflective of what the paying people actually want. The reason Roundscape has way to many horse scenes is because that's what the people on Patreon are paying for. The reason rape and corruption is so common is because that's what people ask for and pay for. Survey's actually don't really mean anything, as you end up asking non paying pirates what they want and not the actual paying consumers. The only real way to force improvement is to support the people who do what you want or getting the silent majority to become the vocal(paying) majority.

4. I prefer to buy a full game. I like RPG's and playing RPG's section of development by section of development is stupid. I tried that with Harem Collector and I currently hate that game for it. I want a complete story and product to 100%, not zone to zone with a story I'll never remember because I don't want to replay the game every month.

I think patreon is great to get interesting concepts finished, but way to easy to abuse. People like Swegabe are pretty obviously not putting in the effort to finish their games, they are riding the money out for as long as they can. Then you have the Roundscape issue where you let fans dictate to much of the direction the porn goes and and the game loses focus.

 

[mark9700]

Re: General HRPG discussion

I've seen a ton of HRPG's, some of them very similar, some of them unique and very customized.
I want to know your tastes, so here are some questions

• 
  What things make a better or worse game?

• 
  What things do you miss on general HRPG's (Story, Customization, CG's, etc)?

• 
  How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve (Development surveys, more participation from the users. etc)?

• 
  Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?

ULMF is a nice site, but a great community, I'd like to know what you think

This is a very intricate and interesting topic

There is one thing (when possible) and one thing only that everyone , and i mean every single player did , at least once (most likely the very first thing) , playing an Hrpg : talk to a npc , undress the character , talk again to see reaction

This very simple concept is the main feature , in my opinion , that every single game should expand and own it : immersion , interactivity with the world , draw and design your own little h-story inside the game .

this is after all what really means RPG . most of "hrpg" these days are in fact visual novels built with rpgmaker or equivalent . they are not real rpg (i said most of them, there are some very nice exceptions)

but again , we hit the wall : most hgames are made by manga artists , and sold to manga/anime consumers , who are accustomed to produce/consume stories and content with very little space to free roaming and interactivity

 

[Ayra]

Re: General HRPG discussion

That's all my own preferences of course; everyone is different.

1. I'm pretty specific on what I like, especially in the H-world. Anyway, here's my list of requirements: It has to be in English. It has to be female protagonist(s); I have no interest to play male characters in these games. I don't want to be the aggressor; I know it's just games, but even in them I don't like to hurt anyone so any "enslave" or "trainer" game is off the table for me.

From a story standpoint, there's two things I will enjoy: Either light, fun stories where nothing really bad happens (ala Vitamin Quest), or something where losing is so terrifying that I want to avoid it at all costs (like Maidensnow Eve).

The first kind of game is interesting because you have a lot of sex situations where the lead character has a lot of fun. Something like Roundscape Adorevia also fits into that: there's some pretty "hard" stuff, but everything is consensual so I like it.

The second kind is interesting because I never try to lose on purpose in games... And something like that is far more terrifying than a regular game over, especially when the game goes on afterward like in Maidensnow Eve. You mess up, you pay the consequences and you move on. The "terror" adds some tension to a game.

With that said, for me a game needs to actually be a fun game. If the game is just a grindfest, I'm not interested. I don't like grinding in regular games, and that also applies to H-games. I'm more forgiving in h-games since I know they are smaller projects and that a lot of the development effort goes to the h-scene, but the gameplay has to interest me. Maidensnow Eve has stellar gameplay (partially because of the H content being part of the actual gameplay) and is the best roguelike game I've ever played.


2. Gameplay tends to be pretty bad in H-RPG. I don't like the bog-standard gameplay that we find in rpg-maker, but some games break free of that and create great experiences. Maidensnow Eve and Dungeons & Prisoners for roguelike, Pregnacy Braves for Strategy, Malise and the Machine and Ariadne for regular RPGs.

From a story standpoint, I wish there were more "happy" games. Consensual doesn't need to mean vanilla, as Roundscape shows.


3. As stupid as it sounds, I'd say the biggest thing is about NOT listening to all of people's suggestions. Everyone has their kinks and things they want in a game... So everyone keeps suggesting a ton of fetishes. Some developers try to fulfill them, and find themselves sidetracked so badly that their games never come out. Developers need to have a clear idea of what they are going to put early and stick to that (at least to a good extent).

The second thing is to a realistic plan. You need some ambition to make someone special... But too often you see plans that are so incredible that you know it's never going to reach completion and the developers will burn out before that's done. Ambition is good, but it needs to be reeled in.


4. Definitively prefer to buy full games. If you help develop a Patreon game, it means that you will be spending A LOT of money for a game that might never even come out. Some (not all obviously) developers are also happy to abuse the system and intentionally delay their projects so that they can keep cashing in the Patreon money.

With that said, I'm still willing to risk it when you have something that looks amazing and that the developers seems to have a good head on their on their shoulders like Malise and the Machine. I'd prefer to buy the completed game obviously, but I realize that it's impossible to develop a game of that scale and polish with no money upfront for its development.

 

[UnLuckyCat]

Re: General HRPG discussion

To put it simply, I'd like more games like Brave Soul.

Not so much the combat, though it worked well as an isometric dungeon crawler. That's always up to the devs, but it was a solid game at its core, regardless of the hentai, and I appreciate due effort.

What I liked about it was all the heroines were so varied, both in personality and in combat. They even had preferences for types of dungeons and quests, so you always knew where to find them to recruit them or what to avoid (or intentionally get them to leave). From simple stuff like the Thief is hunting for treasure, but also the other girls could be afraid of ghosts, or they always get involved in rescue missions. Really added to their characterization.

Of course the art is important, but I've seen too many HRPGs with nice art slapped on the laziest game that isn't worth playing at all. Not strictly RPGMaker, and there are a lot of default tileset abusers there, but in general it's just a lack of due effort. If the best part of your game is the art by far, then just sell that on its own.

An important aspect is the context around the H that builds it all up to be more than the quality of the art itself. The situations in the game where you unlock an event CG or animation, and how the player sees the characters in the game's setting. Kinda hard to tell if you can't read Japanese, but it's easier to get attached to a character if they're useful in battle as well. I think I read before that a Western audience tends to value stats and efficacy higher than in Japan, who are more likely to use the absolute worst units if they're cute. Not an absolute thing, of course, just trends.

 

[Jesus]

Re: General HRPG discussion

1. This depends pretty strongly on the individual. Some people will write off a game completely based on lack of animations or in battle sex. Others just want the theme for their fetish to be done well.

This, for one thing, but I suppose this applies to peoples' preferences in general. H-scenes that occur within gameplay are essential to me, eg. Timer Miko or Malise and the Machine, and having the battles revolve around it, making the adult content a gameplay mechanic, can make what'd otherwise be a boring picture much more compelling because of its context.
The worst RPG maker games I've played are ones with long, unskippable dialogue sequences punctuating every other minute of gameplay, and ones where you're forced to wander around an elaborate town interacting with everyone and everything just to advance. Of course, if I could understand the language or had a walkthrough it'd be a little different but not by much - I'm still having to roam around doing anything but what I'm playing the game for in the first place.
Timer Miko (I'll link to it: http://ulmf.org/bbs/showthread.php?t=26688) is by far my most favourite completed RPG maker H-game, because it doesn't beat around the bush. The vast majority of the time it demands out of you is spent fighting battles and through them, the H-content the game has to offer. The enemies are all unique and varied, and there are a couple of gameplay mechanics that just make it all the more... lewd (Binding, covered in slime, fighting naked for increased evasion). The flipside of the coin is H-games where the H-content is only accessible by explicitly losing a battle, or even not present in the battles at all. I don't want to have to lose progress to see what I'm playing to see, I don't want to have to grind away at a shitty RPG for two hours to see one scene.

What things do you miss on general HRPG's (Story, Customization, CG's, etc)?
The english language for one, good gameplay for another, and for the third, integration of the Hentai into the gameplay. It's a rarity.

How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve (Development surveys, more participation from the users. etc)?
In terms of how the games themselves can improve, more adult content, more gameplay, less story & worldbuilding unless the gameplay doesn't suffer from it. I don't want to know about your generic fantasy story #5304234 you made up to justify some meat-spank material.

Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?
I support the Patreons of projects I want to see succeed - and that's dependent on the content, what the gameplay will be like, and if there's any trial/demo/alpha version to judge it by.

 

[WolfLance]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Here we go!
What things make a better or worse game?
For me, a game is as good as its corruption. Some games make it too fast, some games make it strange... gradual and steady, thats what i like!

What things do you miss on general HRPG's?
Story, really xD I think i'm not wrong if i say that nearly all of the people here on this forums have killed....35435435 demon lords. You know what they say, some of us came for the porn, stayed for the story in some hrpg.

How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve?
Well, i kinda like were is the market now, how can it improve i don't know xD i have a selfish dream tough of japan noticing there is a market outside of their country and games having both languages, english and japanese buuuut i don't think it will happen, not soon at least xD

Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?
I have mixed feelings with patreon... first, i don't like the amount of money some of them make with the monthly model (I only ever consider the patreons that have "Content update payment") second, when i see a release i'm super happy, but normaly updates in some patreons are one scene or two, so in a couple of minutes i'm depresed cause its over xD

 

[Combustion Man]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Interesting discussion, it might help game makers out there.

What things make a better or worse game?

+ Originality is a good thing but it's not required, if everything is well made, it's just a bonus or even irrelevant.
+ Scenario, script, characters traits, everything that makes a good movie or a good book (no, i'm not talking about american blockbusters )
+ Gameplay, of course, that's where originality is mostly needed, it doesn't have to be something unique but for RPGMaker games, for example, anything better than the basic battle system is already a good thing, if battle is involved, if you can't develop a good one, maybe it's better not to have one.
+ Arousing H events, what we need here is imagination, like many players around here, i like when it starts slowly but it's even better if there is some exotic situations involved, you've heard about fantasies, right ?
Weird situations makes a great H-game.

- I'm not a big fan of combat rape, clothing destruction is interesting as long as it doesn't slow down battles, it has to be fast and entertaining.


What things do you miss on general HRPG's (Story, Customization, CG's, etc)?

All of the above.
I also like side quests and "random" events like characters behavior changing depending on daytime/nightime and clothes wore by the Main Character.
Corruption is nice as well.


How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve (Development surveys, more participation from the users. etc)?

Mostly by checking out which features the best games around here are using and using them as well, even trying to improve them.
Surveys are useless as we don't know the background of the people participating, users suggestions, on the other hand, might be very helpful.


Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?

Well, i don't care, it's not my choice to make and i don't have anything against either methods, nobody has to be a patreon if he doesn't want to, i just think people should check their limited rights before starting to be one, the only annoying part is patreons complaining.

 

[EggsBenedict]

Re: General HRPG discussion

What things make a better or worse game?
Lack of quality and effort makes the game worse. Balance and pacing. Writing and story. Characterization and scenarios. Too many games feel like it is made to make a quick buck and it often feels like a gamble on whether the game is actually good and enjoyable vs great idea but poor execution.

There are a lot of things that I can rant on. Seriously. They are not always exclusively bad and make the game worse but again it comes to execution. Diverging story path is one. Progression is sometimes another. I hate it when a game wastes my time. I don't want to fight all the way through 8 zones in a dungeon to get to the boss and need to LOSE to see the scene then repeat and WIN to progress. That shit is archaic game design, we should strive for a better way.

What things do you miss on general HRPG's (Story, Customization, CG's, etc)?
I miss when western devs made HRPG Mods. I don't mean stuff like nude skins for RPGs (well, that too) but I mean adult campaigns using game editors and map makers. A Dance With Rogues is one of the most popular ones, a full two part campaign using Neverwinter Nights.
With the recent resurgence of WRPGs (PoE, SR etc) I had hoped for more adult campaigns but few people seem interested which is a shame.
You know what is great about these types? The fact that they already have a framework for you to work on. You can have a character creator. You can customise NPC and party members. You can pull assets from the base game and even use the base game's lore and setting while creating your own mix. Locks, loot, weapon types, spells etc most can be imported directly from the main game's module and at once we have familiar combat to work with while still being more dynamic than standard RPGMaker because these games are more about role player, where you build your characters in a role/class.

How do you think the general HRPG's market could improve (Development surveys, more participation from the users. etc)?
I think the KISS philosophy in development would go a long way for many newbie developers. Newbies in particular should show more and ask for less. We don't want to know how you have an idea of a game, we want to see prototypes, mockups, artworks and effort. When the first thing we see is a link to your patreon and little else that is relevant then it leaves a bad impression.

Make something. Make it work. Make it more presentable. Then consider showing and asking for opinions. This is different than showing something much earlier and asking for help in regards to art or programming though.

Meanwhile for experienced devs I grow a little tired of the same mechanics in different games over and over. I'd love to see some innovations. Some interactive scenes would be great.

Do you like the "patreon thing" or you prefer to buy complete games?
I actually love the idea of people supporting developers but Patreon draws in some of the worst in my opinion. The problem comes from expectations. When you make a donation you do it in good faith that the money will be well spent. Here you expect to see results and in fact it is like buying stocks where you feel entitled to see progress and constant updates and some kind of value in return on your investment. This to me is unrealistic and unfair to some developers as well as creates a way for other developers to take advantage of patrons.
It is difficult to determine how much time is needed to make a game or a part of a game. Just because dev A does it in two days doesn't mean you have the same skill or are at the same level of development. You may hit a bug from another part of the game that delays you. Your patrons often don't care and just expect you to give and meet deadlines. Mean while, a sneaky developer might already have a good portion of their game made. They could drip feed release updates to scam patrons and non would be the wiser. Patrons getting angry? Look at these artworks I've "just" completed .

 

[bankss]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Wow, I'm so glad people are participating so much. Maybe it's a big topic, but if we organize our ideas maybe our beloved developers take some advices

Also, I see that everyone has a unique opinion about patreon/kickstarter so:

• 
  Do you approve the PayPerUpdate patroning?

 

[Keep]

Re: General HRPG discussion

... we organizate our ideas ...

you've made a really bad typo over there

 

[Enlit3D]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Im probably biased but I actually prefer less RPGMaker-ish H-games and see more developers tackle other genres. RPGMaker HRPGs is a hugely saturated market and IMO once you play a couple of good ones then the rest is more or less the samely.

There are so much unexplored territory, such as turn based squad combat game like XCOM, H-version of dungeon keeper (I believe this has been attempted), shooters (L4D with H-content anyone?) etc.

 

[Yoshiiki]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Devs tackling on other genres and combinations? Would be nice, but honestly I don't see it happening on a larger scale.
Risk of failing is too big and let's be honest, it's not as giant market as mainstream games. Even if porn industry is blooming like hell, we are still not there.

I would rather see more games and way more western people playing those, making market bigger. In bigger market there is a bigger chance that someone will try something new.

From how I see it, this will go same way it did with mainstream games. Japanese devs will be left behind, still focusing mainly on their domestic market. Western devs will provide what is missing and pushing them in the background. Give it some time, more and more people around the world are single, so far it's going steadily into one outcome.

 

[EggsBenedict]

Re: General HRPG discussion

Do you approve the PayPerUpdate patroning?

Approval is not the point. The point is the entire execution of the patreon itself. It is neither good nor bad in and of itself but the management and use of it is what matters.

Again, there is nothing to stop a scammer who has made a decent game drip feed releases using the update method in hopes to bring in more cash over time while working other stuff on the sides. That isn't to say this method is bad or worse but it is not without any faults either.

If you make a good patreon page with reasonable prices, organisation and some level of professionalism and respect it is far more likely to be attractive. From there it depends on your content and updates.

 

[bankss]

Re: General HRPG discussion

you've made a really bad typo over there

lmao, my native language isn't english and I mixed some words

 

[Jesus]

Re: General HRPG discussion

There are so much unexplored territory, such as turn based squad combat game like XCOM, H-version of dungeon keeper (I believe this has been attempted), shooters (L4D with H-content anyone?) etc.

This, absolutely. We're at risk of going off-topic with this, but in the vast majority of RPG-maker games (There are exceptions as in my earlier post), I find it a chore to play them especially if the H-scenes are limited to events or straight-up losing battles and having to restart/reload a save after. I don't find them challenging or compelling, just grindy for the most part.
Turn-based Tactics (Abandoned: A tale of forgotten lives is an example, but the gameplay and H content are separate), FPS and shooters in general are honestly what I hope will become the standard, but they doubtlessly take more effort to create and balance compared to RPGMaker, what with pretty much all the assets a dev needs bar character art and H-content available to them.