In today's news...

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

I was under the impression that you had to be invested in QAnon so hard that your grasp on reality was completely absent in order to consider Sargon as anything except parody or, at the very least, a joke that has gone on too long.

 

[XSI]

Is this about the Super-straight thing?
I found it entertaining but it's obviously not going to go anywhere or make any big changes or whatever

 

[super_slicer]

Why would it? Intersectionalists are either liars that know it's bullshit and champion it because it benefits them or idiots that can't see that's exactly why the former group created it.

There are a group of people with a mental disorder that needs clinical diagnoses and real, effective treatment yet are allowed to self diagnose and dictate treatments based on their whims because they are supposedly marginalized ( By the way, even after they get themselves butchered and dosed with chemical coctails alot of them still end up an heroing ) . This is the type of logical inversion that's baked into the ideology intentionally because the goal is to remove power in all it's forms from those that currently hold it by whatever means necessary irregardless of whether those that it would transfer to merit it's acquisition by any real metric or even be able to wield it to improve society or their lot in it. Going by things like

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and that it's supposedly bad that

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I'd say nope.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

@XSI: Given that Sargon featured it on his podcast and cheered it as "look, we're being cunts just like you guys!" and then proceeded to cherry-pick the responses to the "super-straight" post, it will likely embolden certain personalities in further disregarding the issues of the LGBTQ+ community and continuing to stroll about spouting their ignorance as scripture. The issue with people like Sargon and "super-straight" guy isn't the ignorance of their position, but the platform and reach they possess. It's basically Ben Shapiro telling black kids who get into street gangs that they are the masters of their own destiny and they shouldn't let their environment or peers influence them.

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The problem starts at the top, not with government but with influential personalities. Politicians stopped having the power to affect change the day social media became the primary source of information for almost 99% of people the west.

 

[MrMe]

it will likely embolden certain personalities in further disregarding the issues of the LGBTQ+ community

Good.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Why is it good for people to continue spreading ignorance about a group of people?

 

[MrMe]

Oh I don't know, might be something to do with the parades where gay men wearing rainbow coloured dildo suits and assless chaps throw money at young boys dancing whilst wearing drag?



First gays were normalised
Then it was trannies that were normalised
Then it was putting kids on puberty blockers

And its pretty clear by the way things are going that 'pedosexuality' will be the next thing that will be tried to be normalised.
Aside from kids dancing on the street at a pride parade you have stuff like Cuties.

 

[XSI]

There have already been attempts at making 'pedophilic attracted people' fit into the lgbt stuff, and normalizing them
People push back hard against it for good reason. Fuck about with kids and it will trigger a lot of people's reaction to defend those kids. And then the rest of your movement gets hit by proxy

 

[super_slicer]

It's not hitting the movement by proxy. Self identification irrespective of reality is one of it's tenants, allowing say a child to identify as an adult. Though it's probably just collateral damage rather than intentional maliciousness it's proponents are none the less aware of the dangerous circumstances it creates yet decided it was a sacrifice they were willing to thrust onto others. Could be wrong though, there seems to be alot of propaganda targeting children, it may in fact be grooming.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

I'm not content saying the proponents of a movement are all guilty. I don't oppose condemning the ones who say "any sacrifice is acceptable" because they're the ones being disingenuous with their support. You're not interested in helping a group be treated better. You're only interested in giving minimal effort in showing your support and going along with whatever as long as you get the recognition for being there. Fuck off outta here with that shit.

Stuff like that "Cuties" movie needs to fuck off, too. I also don't think the rare instances of adults acting like shit like @MrMe noted should be sufficient reason to condemn an entire group or movement. That one instance was shameful, and even members of the LGBTQ+ movement highly condemned the actions of those involved. Children having the freedom to express themselves was always the intent, albeit within reason. Obviously, too many asshats took it too far and encouraged the wrong kind of thing. Explore your sexuality on your own time, and when you have sufficient education, but don't hesitate to break gender norms, either.

The problem with progressive ideaology, though, is it still fits too well into that region of big business trying to capitalize on someone's self-expression. Unfortunately, when there is money to be made, big business will seek to appeal to the group who can raise their bottom line.

 

[noman]

In case you missed it, Missisipi banned transgender atheletes from participating in girl's sports in schools.

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Some Redditors suggested turning all men's sports into open category, i.e. no gender restriction. That sounded like a reasonable solution to me.

Also that governor totally looks like Peter Griffin.

 

[XSI]

Just an open sports competition seems perfectly reasonable to me too. I do think women's sport should exist, and women should be encouraged to sport and have a healthy lifestyle too, but right now you can't set a limit on 'women' without it immediately becoming a highly political statement.

Also on the whole left movement and lgbtletters, one very big thing with this part

I'm not content saying the proponents of a movement are all guilty. I don't oppose condemning the ones who say "any sacrifice is acceptable" because they're the ones being disingenuous with their support. You're not interested in helping a group be treated better. You're only interested in giving minimal effort in showing your support and going along with whatever as long as you get the recognition for being there. Fuck off outta here with that shit.

Is that those people are encouraging further extremes by the logic of one-upping others and encouraging there to be always more and something else to fight for. Another frontier to push, another norm to shatter, and so on, so they can always keep their position of being a 'good guy activist'. They don't usually care about the issues, just about the social cred as Bob points out.
They have nothing to lose by pushing further, and they have everything to lose for stepping on the brakes and asking "Is this too far?". So naturally they will never be satisfied

They're the people who will buy whatever they can to show off how much of a 'good side of history' activist they are, leading to this being further encouraged by capitalism.

The problem with progressive ideaology, though, is it still fits too well into that region of big business trying to capitalize on someone's self-expression. Unfortunately, when there is money to be made, big business will seek to appeal to the group who can raise their bottom line.

And business has become very good at encouraging people into this mindset of the highly public actvist (Though often restricted to just social media or a small internet forum/server). That's how they sell products, you only need to put out the right message for them and they'll spread it to everyone with the same opinion for the social cred- Free advertising just for having a product say the right thing, and plenty of people willing to spend money on it to show their support for the movement.

Similarly, outrage for doing something against the movement followed by an apology is more free publicity, and often a planned marketing strategy these days. That's how Burger King tweeted that women belong in the kitchen, and then a few hours later after the outrage has spread they mention their culinary school scholarships for women.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Just an open sports competition seems perfectly reasonable to me too. I do think women's sport should exist, and women should be encouraged to sport and have a healthy lifestyle too, but right now you can't set a limit on 'women' without it immediately becoming a highly political statement.

I feel like the logical result of supporting transgenders in sports was always going to be opening up each sport to universal competition. It is true that right now, doing anything (no matter how well-intended) to women or the lgbtq+ to restrict certain things is going to invite a negative response and aggressive retaliation. We just came off a recent event where a bunch of angry rednecks blasted through a government building with malicious intent because their bloated hog

Is that those people are encouraging further extremes by the logic of one-upping others and encouraging there to be always more and something else to fight for. Another frontier to push, another norm to shatter, and so on, so they can always keep their position of being a 'good guy activist'. They don't usually care about the issues, just about the social cred as Bob points out.
They have nothing to lose by pushing further, and they have everything to lose for stepping on the brakes and asking "Is this too far?". So naturally they will never be satisfied

They're the people who will buy whatever they can to show off how much of a 'good side of history' activist they are, leading to this being further encouraged by capitalism.

The problem with pushing forward all the time is, as we've seen in Maoist China and Stalinist USSR, there is going to be parts of the movement who will be concerned about the intent of those pushing. All movements have their "bad eggs" who need the more restrained elements to reel them back in. Of course, as XSI pointed out, those pushers also tend to have made their investment in tangible displays of support, meaning you either sided with them and wear the beret, or you're not a true supporter and must be shunned.

And business has become very good at encouraging people into this mindset of the highly public actvist (Though often restricted to just social media or a small internet forum/server). That's how they sell products, you only need to put out the right message for them and they'll spread it to everyone with the same opinion for the social cred- Free advertising just for having a product say the right thing, and plenty of people willing to spend money on it to show their support for the movement.

Similarly, outrage for doing something against the movement followed by an apology is more free publicity, and often a planned marketing strategy these days. That's how Burger King tweeted that women belong in the kitchen, and then a few hours later after the outrage has spread they mention their culinary school scholarships for women.

WOTC did display of tokenism last year that blue up in their face, so token gestures are being called out for what they are, I hope. There is a bit less tolerance towards token gestures and paying lip-service, though it's still hit and miss whether the less-reactionary forces will step up to call it out. That BK thing makes me shake my head, though. I know the intent is well-meaning, but goddamn, guys.

 

[Hentaispider]

In case you missed it, Missisipi banned transgender atheletes from participating in girl's sports in schools.

You must be registered to see the links

Some Redditors suggested turning all men's sports into open category, i.e. no gender restriction. That sounded like a reasonable solution to me.

Also that governor totally looks like Peter Griffin.

Theoretically speaking, in many cases men's sports are already open to everyone. It's just that biologically female would-be competitors aren't competitive(chess and e-sports being the most notable exceptions - Scarlet even won the world championship in Starcraft 2 a few years ago). There's only the slight problem of "what counts as doping?" Testosterone is on the banned list, which makes things tricky for FtM competitors.

And as the debacle around women's sports demonstrates, even if that's not an issue, then transgender participants of both kinds would still likely be at a significant disadvantage in physical sports.

 

[super_slicer]

Sure mediocre males could exploit this to compete in a league where their abilities would stand out, but that's not the true driving force. The movement wants to require society to provide affirmation for those suffering from this specific brand of delusion. I highly doubt a tranny league will placate them, which is unfortunate because it's the ideal solution (ignoring that there won't be enough to fill most teams or that there's no audience for it as someone mentioned previously).

Meanwhile we're due for a spike in rapes in women's prisons as men in wigs are allowed to enter as inmates, just like in England. To the point they had to create designated cells for not women.

 

[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Theoretically speaking, in many cases men's sports are already open to everyone. It's just that biologically female would-be competitors aren't competitive(chess and e-sports being the most notable exceptions - Scarlet even won the world championship in Starcraft 2 a few years ago). There's only the slight problem of "what counts as doping?" Testosterone is on the banned list, which makes things tricky for FtM competitors.

And as the debacle around women's sports demonstrates, even if that's not an issue, then transgender participants of both kinds would still likely be at a significant disadvantage in physical sports.

The solution is complicated as Hell, that's for sure. Do we ban MtF participants from female leagues? What about FtM participants who want in on the male category, but their pre-op gender is the most pronounced? Do we allow a bit of doping as long as it's only for transitioning purposes? Do we have a soft ban on athletes who are undergoing the process for x amount of years?

I think approaching the transgender community and having a long-term dialogue is the best solution, but that's inviting...

Sure mediocre males could exploit this to compete in a league where their abilities would stand out, but that's not the true driving force. The movement wants to require society to provide affirmation for those suffering from this specific brand of delusion. I highly doubt a tranny league will placate them, which is unfortunate because it's the ideal solution (ignoring that there won't be enough to fill most teams or that there's no audience for it as someone mentioned previously).

Meanwhile we're due for a spike in rapes in women's prisons as men in wigs are allowed to enter as inmates, just like in England. To the point they had to create designated cells for not women.

this kind of rhetoric, where one or a dozen intolerant persons make up fantasy scenarios to justify their "righteous" indignation at something most of us are fine with. Because when we take the most extreme, circumstantial situations and present them as an overwhelming absolute, it sets us all back 20 years. So, the question then becomes, do we have the discussion exclusive to the affected group(s) and not open it to the general public? Or, do we open it up, and allow people who want to use bad faith rhetoric as a means to dissuade any further dialogue?

 

[XSI]

Not quite fantasy scenarios, There were articles on China actively sending male athletes to international events for women's sports and Russians abusing the drugs for transitioning. People will absolutely abuse whatever they can to get an advantage when it comes to the top athletes. And if not they, then their management will.
It's a fucked situation all around, but it is realistic to assume that it will be abused by people to the disadvantage of others.

And in other news

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Capitalism strikes again- Pfizer says you're going to need a third dose of vaccine to stay safe, and tells investors that it's going to be a great moneymaker. Of course they also admit that it won't fully cover people even after that third dose, leaving the door open for a fourth in the future, along with yearly booster shots.
They're also planning price hikes since it is 'a significant opportunity'

 

[super_slicer]

I'm not sure what he's targeting with that honestly. May very well be that he considers a man in a wig a woman.

Wonder if the vax will receive full subsidy from governments which mandate it?

 

[Hentaispider]

The solution is complicated as Hell, that's for sure. Do we ban MtF participants from female leagues? What about FtM participants who want in on the male category, but their pre-op gender is the most pronounced? Do we allow a bit of doping as long as it's only for transitioning purposes? Do we have a soft ban on athletes who are undergoing the process for x amount of years?

Banning MtF participants from female leagues seems like a nobrainer. As slicer points out, anyone who has undergone puberty as a male will have a significant advantage over women no different than doping(albeit harder to prove malicious). What should or should not count as doping for FtM athletes is a more complicated question, but like I said, it's not like they're likely to be very competitive anyway, so...

Not quite fantasy scenarios, There were articles on China actively sending male athletes to international events for women's sports and Russians abusing the drugs for transitioning. People will absolutely abuse whatever they can to get an advantage when it comes to the top athletes. And if not they, then their management will.
It's a fucked situation all around, but it is realistic to assume that it will be abused by people to the disadvantage of others.

Don't forget

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[Ninja_Named_Bob]

Not quite fantasy scenarios, There were articles on China actively sending male athletes to international events for women's sports and Russians abusing the drugs for transitioning. People will absolutely abuse whatever they can to get an advantage when it comes to the top athletes. And if not they, then their management will.
It's a fucked situation all around, but it is realistic to assume that it will be abused by people to the disadvantage of others.

I mean, that's a fair point to be making. I think it doesn't really work out to outright act to prevent, nor is it a good look to do nothing and then end up with egg on your face. Something about being fooled twice, and whatnot.

And in other news

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Capitalism strikes again- Pfizer says you're going to need a third dose of vaccine to stay safe, and tells investors that it's going to be a great moneymaker. Of course they also admit that it won't fully cover people even after that third dose, leaving the door open for a fourth in the future, along with yearly booster shots.
They're also planning price hikes since it is 'a significant opportunity'

I'm not even surprised that Pfizer is doing this, or that someone decided this was the straw that broke the camel's back for someone, and they wanted to expose it. What does surprise me is that the guys who put together the vaccine seem to be okay with this. I mean, how hard would it be for those guys to refuse to work and then collectively go to the local news and the competition and expose that shit? Ethics be damned when a dollar is to be made, I guess.

Banning MtF participants from female leagues seems like a nobrainer. As slicer points out, anyone who has undergone puberty as a male will have a significant advantage over women no different than doping(albeit harder to prove malicious). What should or should not count as doping for FtM athletes is a more complicated question, but like I said, it's not like they're likely to be very competitive anyway, so...

I would argue if you're a male transitioning to female, depending on where you are in the process, your advantage might not even be that significant. There are also arguments to be made for women who can simply out-speed men. I agree that what qualifies also becomes complicated, and should be left to a "x amount after x years" limit. It's harsh, but there cannot be progress without technology-based limits. As soon as we have Star Trek tech to alter appearance and physiology, we can discuss next-day competing and regulations relating to that kind of thing.

Don't forget

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I mean, doping in general is fairly common (unfortunately),. My main contention is taking exceptions like some prison scum pretending to be chicks, or what Russia and China have done, and saying that's the overall norm and you can't trust a transsexual, as Slicer was implying. You might as well stop respecting their autonomy at that point, because you've lumped the whole in with people who were abusing a system and never had any sincere intent behind their claims. I think that's the kind of red-hatter bullshit we have to make a decision on whether to tolerate or not before any serious discussions can even be had.