What's new

Discussion Sex MUGEN 2.0 General Discussion Thread


Tigris

Lurker
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
70
Reputation score
34
[...]
Just to further clarify kuro plus in the video you linked here is actually a slightly modified version of Horuakuti's kuro plus, but about the only change to the original is the new impregnation cut-in and not much else [...]
Quite a few changes actually, as detailed in this post over here. The unique impregnation cut-in is part of an anal penetration position, but only Petra_Johanna_Lagerkvist was ever (to my knowledge) updated with the proper sprites and animations for it. Horuakuti's own mating press version of kuromaru_plus will be more compatible with Saki, assuming it's Horuakuti's version of her.

I should probably mention that updates to Horuakuti's Kuromaru occasionally discard old functions while adding new ones. The most recent iteration I am aware of only has one side missionary position, but one of the older versions has two; they call different victim animations that correspond to different leg positions in compatible characters. My memory is hazy, but Saki might have both positions. It's a small detail in truth, but one that I greatly enjoy.

I could go into great detail on the specifics of Horuakuti's Kuromaru, and how each revision differs from the last, but checking and verifying information, confirming sources and providing alternatives for dead sources would take me literal hours, possibly even days, and I don't really have that kind of time to spare right now - certainly not for an infodump that will be lost and forgotten within a few weeks. I've made a few infodump posts in this thread before, though. They're old and outdated by now, but much of the information on Kuromaru variants is still relevant (if slightly inaccurate for more recent releases). Should be able to find them easily enough through my post history, given how rarely I have anything to say.
 
Last edited:

HangerDanger

Grim Reaper
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
567
Reputation score
118
Quite a few changes actually, as detailed in this post over here. The unique impregnation cut-in is part of an anal penetration position, but only Petra_Johanna_Lagerkvist was ever (to my knowledge) updated with the proper sprites and animations for it. Horuakuti's own mating press version of kuromaru_plus will be more compatible with Saki, assuming it's Horuakuti's version of her.
Yeah, i actually am aware of that fact, but he was asking about Saki not Petra thus i pointed him in the direction of Horuakuti's versions of the chars seeing how he was only interested in the mating press position (and i still stand by my opinion that he isn't missing much by not having a raper that only works with one single victim, lol)...

As for the other things you said (i haven't quoted that part but i will elaborate on it anyway), you seem to forget that the author of the Kuro from the video also had to do away with, or shall we say sacrifice some of the already existing features in order to implement the new mating press variations (which are quite shoddy i might say). Personally i would rather have the side missionary position than the anal mating press which seems like it is kept in place with a duct tape (as i previously said it is clunky as hell, sometimes working as intended while sometimes also not working quite right)...

Anyway this is just my take on the matter, not THE opinion or anything like that, so take it as you will...
 

Tigris

Lurker
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Messages
70
Reputation score
34
Yeah, i actually am aware of that fact, but he was asking about Saki not Petra thus i pointed him in the direction of Horuakuti's versions of the chars seeing how he was only interested in the mating press position (and i still stand by my opinion that he isn't missing much by not having a raper that only works with one single victim, lol)...

As for the other things you said (i haven't quoted that part but i will elaborate on it anyway), you seem to forget that the author of the Kuro from the video also had to do away with, or shall we say sacrifice some of the already existing features in order to implement the new mating press variations (which are quite shoddy i might say). Personally i would rather have the side missionary position than the anal mating press which seems like it is kept in place with a duct tape (as i previously said it is clunky as hell, sometimes working as intended while sometimes also not working quite right)...

Anyway this is just my take on the matter, not THE opinion or anything like that, so take it as you will...
Full argument spoilered because it became a somewhat ranty wall-o-text.
tl;dr version: 1977 Kuromaru has multiple unique functions and a huge amount of mostly-unrealised potential for modifying both raper and victims, and nothing is stopping you from using both 1977 and Horuakuti's Kuromaru in the same version of MUGEN.
[...] i still stand by my opinion that he isn't missing much by not having a raper that only works with one single victim, lol [...]
-Unique ability to switch between [two or three depending on anal/vaginal] different sets of raper sprites for a piledriver/mating press-style position at will, potentially up to four if modified.
-Unique ability to switch between two different sets of victim sprites for same.
-Unique system for progression of victim sprites/animations in that position.
-Unique impregnation cut-in.
-The victim in question is one of very few female victims with anal penetration sprites/animations.

Now, admittedly, the second and third points require a properly compatible victim, but these are still unique functions that exist in no other MUGEN character. I'm going to compare 1977 Kuromaru to several other rapers below, so I'll preface this by saying that their differences don't make any of these characters "superior" or "inferior" in any way; only different. They all have unique benefits and drawbacks, and ignoring or glossing over their unique features is a disservice to the time and effort their creators put into them.

You could argue that changing positions is common - and you'd be right - but no other raper can change, separately and at will, between two different sets of victim and raper sprites for one position. The closest contemporary would be the missionary/mating press switch on CiroRawse/MugenFutaCharsMaker's characters, but that code can't call alternate victim sprites the way 1977 can. No other raper has the code to allow the player to change between vaginal and anal penetration, lying on back/on front, changing between vaginal/oral or anal/oral depending on the specific victim compatibility in place... there's a ton of potential here, and I think it's a damned shame only one victim was ever made that explores it. I've made a few half-baked attempts to modify victims myself, though I've made no significant progress beyond hacking a couple of sprites together. One could also modify Kuromaru himself to have up to four different raper sprites - potentially completely different characters - for each position. Dawnstar made a modification a while back exploring that possibility, though iirc some of the sprites for the transparency layer weren't altered to match so it's slightly janky.

You could argue that other rapers have functions that allow for progression of victim animations and/or unique animations for the victim in a similar style - also true - but none have the same granularity, detail and user control all in one package. Gettag's Brian, and most versions of Horuakuti's Kuromaru, have code to call [up to 3 or up to 6, respectively] different victim animations for each different position depending on certain flags, but all of them are very binary on/off state switches rather than the rolling progression - which can roll backwards, depending on what you do - that "1977" Kuromaru is built for, and take a little more effort to activate. Again, a huge amount of potential that has never really been explored. Sadly, the complexity that gives it potential is also the biggest obstacle to exploring that same potential.

[Multiple complaints regarding the quality and stability of 1977 Kuromaru's press animations]
A lot of the other functions are unstable or seem incomplete to me, but the press positions work fine on my end... with Petra at least.* It's wonky without victim compatibility, but the same could be said of Horuakuti's Kuromaru. In fact, 1977 Kuromaru can call sprite group 12250 if the victim doesn't have proper animations, but Horuakuti's Kuromaru just fucks empty air in that situation. There are more victims that are fully functional with Horuakuti's mating press and side missionary than with 1977's anal press, but 1977 does not absolutely require proper compatibility in the same way Horuakuti's does.
*Could be that it's meant to be patched onto a particular version of Kuromaru, and I was lucky enough to pick the right one? The most recent kuromaru_plus before 1977 seems to be... mugeryona1762? You could try applying the 1977 patch on that version, maybe that would help. I'll update my old infodump to mention it.

[...] Personally i would rather have the side missionary position than the anal mating press [...]
Anyway this is just my take on the matter, not THE opinion or anything like that, so take it as you will...
Of course - and the same is true of my position. For my part, I'm mostly trying to provide as much useful, relevant information to the discussion in as clear and detailed a way as I possibly can. Where the information that I have - or at least, my interpretation of it - seems to contradict your expressed opinion, I've noted so. As to preferring Horuakuti's Kuromaru over 1977... why not have both? A basic, uncustomised copy of MUGEN has limited character selection slots, but you can easily get screenpacks with several hundred, or with a little effort modify system.def yourself. (My copy of mugen-1.1b has over 500 character select slots, for what it's worth. Horribly disorganised since I never adapted my organisational system after expanding the number of slots many years ago, but it serves my needs.)
I found that Saki in the Mugen uploader. It was very old, I think it was from 2010/2011, if I'm not wrong.
I haven't checked these uploads personally so I don't know if they're the most recent revisions, but Horuakuti's and are both available on hentaicharmugen. Not nearly as comprehensive as mugenarchive used to be, but it's one of the only easily-accessible options left after MA purged most of its 18+ content. Adding these two characters to a working copy of mugen-1.1b should be the quickest and easiest way to get what you seem to be after. Apologies for the delay on this; I thought the question had been mostly resolved until I read back over the thread a bit.
 
Last edited:

HangerDanger

Grim Reaper
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
567
Reputation score
118
Full argument spoilered because it became a somewhat ranty wall-o-text.
tl;dr version: 1977 Kuromaru has multiple unique functions and a huge amount of mostly-unrealised potential for modifying both raper and victims, and nothing is stopping you from using both 1977 and Horuakuti's Kuromaru in the same version of MUGEN.
-Unique ability to switch between [two or three depending on anal/vaginal] different sets of raper sprites for a piledriver/mating press-style position at will, potentially up to four if modified.
-Unique ability to switch between two different sets of victim sprites for same.
-Unique system for progression of victim sprites/animations in that position.
-Unique impregnation cut-in.
-The victim in question is one of very few female victims with anal penetration sprites/animations.

Now, admittedly, the second and third points require a properly compatible victim, but these are still unique functions that exist in no other MUGEN character. I'm going to compare 1977 Kuromaru to several other rapers below, so I'll preface this by saying that their differences don't make any of these characters "superior" or "inferior" in any way; only different. They all have unique benefits and drawbacks, and ignoring or glossing over their unique features is a disservice to the time and effort their creators put into them.

You could argue that changing positions is common - and you'd be right - but no other raper can change, separately and at will, between two different sets of victim and raper sprites for one position. The closest contemporary would be the missionary/mating press switch on CiroRawse/MugenFutaCharsMaker's characters, but that code can't call alternate victim sprites the way 1977 can. No other raper has the code to allow the player to change between vaginal and anal penetration, lying on back/on front, changing between vaginal/oral or anal/oral depending on the specific victim compatibility in place... there's a ton of potential here, and I think it's a damned shame only one victim was ever made that explores it. I've made a few half-baked attempts to modify victims myself, though I've made no significant progress beyond hacking a couple of sprites together. One could also modify Kuromaru himself to have up to four different raper sprites - potentially completely different characters - for each position. Dawnstar made a modification a while back exploring that possibility, though iirc some of the sprites for the transparency layer weren't altered to match so it's slightly janky.

You could argue that other rapers have functions that allow for progression of victim animations and/or unique animations for the victim in a similar style - also true - but none have the same granularity, detail and user control all in one package. Gettag's Brian, and most versions of Horuakuti's Kuromaru, have code to call [up to 3 or up to 6, respectively] different victim animations for each different position depending on certain flags, but all of them are very binary on/off state switches rather than the rolling progression - which can roll backwards, depending on what you do - that "1977" Kuromaru is built for, and take a little more effort to activate. Again, a huge amount of potential that has never really been explored. Sadly, the complexity that gives it potential is also the biggest obstacle to exploring that same potential.


A lot of the other functions are unstable or seem incomplete to me, but the press positions work fine on my end... with Petra at least.* It's wonky without victim compatibility, but the same could be said of Horuakuti's Kuromaru. In fact, 1977 Kuromaru can call sprite group 12250 if the victim doesn't have proper animations, but Horuakuti's Kuromaru just fucks empty air in that situation. There are more victims that are fully functional with Horuakuti's mating press and side missionary than with 1977's anal press, but 1977 does not absolutely require proper compatibility in the same way Horuakuti's does.
*Could be that it's meant to be patched onto a particular version of Kuromaru, and I was lucky enough to pick the right one? The most recent kuromaru_plus before 1977 seems to be... mugeryona1762? You could try applying the 1977 patch on that version, maybe that would help. I'll update my old infodump to mention it.


Of course - and the same is true of my position. For my part, I'm mostly trying to provide as much useful, relevant information to the discussion in as clear and detailed a way as I possibly can. Where the information that I have - or at least, my interpretation of it - seems to contradict your expressed opinion, I've noted so. As to preferring Horuakuti's Kuromaru over 1977... why not have both? A basic, uncustomised copy of MUGEN has limited character selection slots, but you can easily get screenpacks with several hundred, or with a little effort modify system.def yourself. (My copy of mugen-1.1b has over 500 character select slots, for what it's worth. Horribly disorganised since I never adapted my organisational system after expanding the number of slots many years ago, but it serves my needs.)

I haven't checked these uploads personally so I don't know if they're the most recent revisions, but Horuakuti's and are both available on hentaicharmugen. Not nearly as comprehensive as mugenarchive used to be, but it's one of the only easily-accessible options left after MA purged most of its 18+ content. Adding these two characters to a working copy of mugen-1.1b should be the quickest and easiest way to get what you seem to be after. Apologies for the delay on this; I thought the question had been mostly resolved until I read back over the thread a bit.
Null sweat bro (yeah, i've been playing Shadowrun a bit recently and damn there's much leetspeak there), that's why this thread is called discussion thread, in order for people to express and exchange their opinions on whatever is related to Mugen...

Besides i wouldn't exactly say that our opinions are necessarily in conflict, but rather our point of view is to an extent... basically what i'm trying to say is that i personally don't consider this edited Kuromaru worth keeping around (yeah you can have screen packs with hundreds of characters but it never looks aesthetically pleasing). Sure it might be interesting to fiddle around with a bit to study its code, but not enough to actually use it (if it had an AI actually capable of using the said H actions then it might be worth something, but this point is highly debatable because personally i don't like using rapers myself but rather playing the victim), but as it is right now it's just outclassed by things we have nowadays (Gettag's Brian actually has what i would call a rather impressive AI despite all of its deficiencies plus it is constantly worked on), and will only get even more so by the things to come (that new project Gettag and Grug are working on for instance).

To conclude this ramble of mine, while the unrealised potential of this edit of Kuro might undeniably be interesting, it still is just that, an unrealised potential...

Note#1: The Horuakuti's char edits on HCM are fake (they most definitely do NOT work as intended) and that is exactly the reason why i didn't point Forten10 to HCM to look for chars he asked for but rather the uploader (and to my understanding he did find what he was looking for)...

just a little request, does anyone have rock howard aggresor?
Interestingly enough that one was never made as far as i know... I mean we already have some chars from GMotW turned into rapers/victims (DongHwan for example) but Rock himself was apparently never made into one...
 
Last edited:

kimjaewon

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Messages
35
Reputation score
0
English discussion only.
난 당신이 무슨 뜻인지 알고 싶어하지만, 말하기가 너무 어렵다. 누가 쉽게 만들거야?
 

Oofer645

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
29
Reputation score
12
Interestingly enough that one was never made as far as i know... I mean we already have some chars from GMotW turned into rapers/victims (DongHwan for example) but Rock himself was apparently never made into one...
never knew that .-., thx for the information
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
60
Reputation score
22
Hey guys, I'm back with another question: is there any character with an amazon position ( or reverse missionary position )?
 

HangerDanger

Grim Reaper
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
567
Reputation score
118
Hey guys, I'm back with another question: is there any character with an amazon position ( or reverse missionary position )?
You're in luck, because Handy recently did a pair of victim/raper chars namely Chun-li reverse raper and Ryu as a... reverse victim (???) i guess. Chun-li even has a half decent AI and can actually use the H-moves so there's that, but on the other hand she works only with the previously mentioned Ryu. You can find both of those on HCM (hentai chars mugen)...
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
60
Reputation score
22
You're in luck, because Handy recently did a pair of victim/raper chars namely Chun-li reverse raper and Ryu as a... reverse victim (???) i guess. Chun-li even has a half decent AI and can actually use the H-moves so there's that, but on the other hand she works only with the previously mentioned Ryu. You can find both of those on HCM (hentai chars mugen)...
Thanks again!
 

HangerDanger

Grim Reaper
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
567
Reputation score
118
Bro, here's a piece of advice: Don't double post since it is frowned upon (for various reasons) and if repeated too much it can lead to an intervention from the mods... If you have to make changes to a post/fix typos use the ever so handy "EDIT" option to do that, after all that is why it is there in the first place...
 

derakino999

Demon Girl Pro
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
1,463
Reputation score
616
Horuakuti the best
Btw, he told me, a long time ago, Kuromaru's missionary victim would show up ver1 (spread legs), and IF NOT THERE (animation number) ver2 (legs up), but....not both?
I managed to have 2 versions of each char because i'm a dumb fuck and that was the only way i could manage, and even then i didn't do it right.

Kept messing around and fucked them, though, and haven't tried again.
Wish i made a backup lol.

It ISN'T hard....but eh...
 

HangerDanger

Grim Reaper
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
567
Reputation score
118
Horuakuti the best
Btw, he told me, a long time ago, Kuromaru's missionary victim would show up ver1 (spread legs), and IF NOT THERE (animation number) ver2 (legs up), but....not both?
I managed to have 2 versions of each char because i'm a dumb fuck and that was the only way i could manage, and even then i didn't do it right.

Kept messing around and fucked them, though, and haven't tried again.
Wish i made a backup lol.

It ISN'T hard....but eh...
Yeah, Horuakuti's kuromaru can be buggy as heck (animations getting stuck/frozen and then randomly unfreezing, animations not triggering right or in the wrong position are just some of the examples of what i have personally seen) depending on the victims you use him with, and even more so if you actually try to edit/touch any part of the arguably spaghetti code.

I mean don't get me wrong it is really impressive what he managed to do with a raper as old as Kuro, but it really needs quite a bit more polish as it is now...
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2020
Messages
60
Reputation score
22
Bro, here's a piece of advice: Don't double post since it is frowned upon (for various reasons) and if repeated too much it can lead to an intervention from the mods... If you have to make changes to a post/fix typos use the ever so handy "EDIT" option to do that, after all that is why it is there in the first place...
Ok, thanks for the advice!
 

derakino999

Demon Girl Pro
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
1,463
Reputation score
616
@HangerDanger
Well i really can't say that as i think i myself was what caused the problem. I'm a noob in these things...
But yeah i've seen it too. But you know, it's something that happens because a VERY SPECIFIC ver. of a ver. of the kuro is married to a VERY SPECIFIC ver. of a ver. of a victim.
Doing that you get zero bugs, but try a minimum updated kuro and then it starts to.

Srsly i love that guy's work. I deem his the best ever to happen to the h mugen scene.
Personal taste of course.

It is sad that he is gone.
 

lindlind

New member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
8
Reputation score
1
i found Mugen rape in Mugen ero video? did that filec its game with his char? like birdie and zombie
 

HangerDanger

Grim Reaper
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
567
Reputation score
118
@HangerDanger
Well i really can't say that as i think i myself was what caused the problem. I'm a noob in these things...
But yeah i've seen it too. But you know, it's something that happens because a VERY SPECIFIC ver. of a ver. of the kuro is married to a VERY SPECIFIC ver. of a ver. of a victim.
Doing that you get zero bugs, but try a minimum updated kuro and then it starts to.

Srsly i love that guy's work. I deem his the best ever to happen to the h mugen scene.
Personal taste of course.

It is sad that he is gone.
Yeah, sometimes while fiddling with the code you can actually get some surprisingly good results and sometimes things go terribly wrong a hundred times in a row so i understand how it can get discouraging, but i myself always thought that it is actually the reason why mugen is so interesting, i mean the fact that anyone and everyone can modify anything they want in any way they want is what kept the mugen as a program or rather as a platform so to speak alive thus far...

Aside from that, Horuakuti is gone??? I mean i thought that he just sort of disappeared as it often happens on the internet, but was there any specific reason or something? (i'm not trolling here but asking a genuine question due to not hearing anything specific related to him being gone, but just to be fair i'm not that much of a fan of him so i haven't really been paying much attention to news related to him)

i found Mugen rape in Mugen ero video? did that filec its game with his char? like birdie and zombie
Damn, this again... Okay look, no you won't be getting any of those ever because those are just private characters that will NEVER be shared. Before this devolves into another discussion as to why things are that way i will just say this: Because Mugen ero wants it to be that way and that is about as good of an answer as any and probably the only real answer you will get. Everything else is just guessing and/or speculating...

I'm not trying to be an ass here (not intentionally at the very least), it's just that the best advice is to just enjoy his videos and be happy with at least that, but most people just aren't satisfied with that answer thus the paragraph above...
 
Top