The Ranting/Debate Thread

[XSI]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Spoiler

Please, for God's sake, don't take me seriously. I am hyperbolising my beliefs here.

Spoiler

If I were to take the ethics thing serious, I would not have given an example of a game where every problem can be solved by dumping a large load of molten rock on it, mermaids are hunted to make trophies out of their bones, elves are canibals that eat their own family, and justice implies getting a hammer to the face for blinking the wrong way.

Besides that, Fuck you Blizzard, another patch came out, and again, your site was about as useful as earwarmers in the sahara desert.

 

[Alias]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Are you by any chance trying to play WC3 on a mac? I had some issues with their patch installer when I tried to connect to bnet on my apple, but ten or fifteen minutes of googling/downloading fixed it, no real problems. Never have had any issues with a windows machine.

 

[Rule 34]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Besides that, Fuck you Blizzard, another patch came out, and again, your site was about as useful as earwarmers in the sahara desert.

I like that simile. Consider it stolen. YOINK!

 

[Goldstein]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

To be honest, I'm tired of all the emphasis humans put on sex. It's kind of disappointing to think of all the effort and energy we spend on sex when there are so many other, better uses for that potential. I know it's a false dichotomy, but I don't care. Sex consumes so much of our thought, resources, time, and energy for an act that is ultimately (save for reproduction) pointless, in the sense that we get nothing of value out of it. (Note, I'm not just talking about intercourse in and of itself, I mean things like STDs, sexual paraphernalia, sexual violence, etc.)

I might go so far as to say that the Party had the right idea, albeit for the wrong reasons. (Literally 'abolish the orgasm', and all reproduction through in-vitro.) It seems like we could do so much more if we didn't focus so much on sex.

And yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite, in that I'll have sex, too. And don't bring up not being able to discuss it since I haven't had it. Please.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

To be honest, I'm tired of all the emphasis humans put on sex. It's kind of disappointing to think of all the effort and energy we spend on sex when there are so many other, better uses for that potential. I know it's a false dichotomy, but I don't care. Sex consumes so much of our thought, resources, time, and energy for an act that is ultimately (save for reproduction) pointless, in the sense that we get nothing of value out of it. (Note, I'm not just talking about intercourse in and of itself, I mean things like STDs, sexual paraphernalia, sexual violence, etc.)

I might go so far as to say that the Party had the right idea, albeit for the wrong reasons. (Literally 'abolish the orgasm', and all reproduction through in-vitro.) It seems like we could do so much more if we didn't focus so much on sex.

And yeah, I'm probably a hypocrite, in that I'll have sex, too. And don't bring up not being able to discuss it since I haven't had it. Please.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Pale]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Now, see, this irks me a little. Like everything else in life.. sex is what you make of it.

What I think we're actually seeing is a change in how people treat sex. Somehow, we've gone from the Victorian era of Don't Talk About It, Don't Enjoy It, Lie Back And Think Of England, to the modern day, where people can actually meet, then have sex, within hours.

I think that's the worst thing we could do to ourselves, in honesty, casual sex. If you don't treat it like it has meaning, it has no meaning.

As for that comedian, I think he's representative of one of the other problems we have.. glorification of the female form over the male. Now, I'm not going to say I think men are more beautiful than women.. or that I find men more attractive than women. However, I think we probably ought to address the fact that most men in modern society find it very difficult to see how they can possibly be attractive.

The final thing I want to say - it's not just Blurt. Maybe men should abolish their orgasms.. if they're so pathetic, and just lead to immediate sleep/unconsciousness.. but I kinda like mine. One in the morning == Happy Day for Pale.

Basically.. the sexual urge isn't really one to complain about. After all. You can't get rid of hunger by rubbing your stomach.

P

 

[Kusanagi]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Sex... is what you make it... no pun intended.

If you THINK it has no meaning, then to you, it has none. That doesn't mean it has no meaning to the guy/girl right next to you. They could think it's the most meaningful thing in the world.

Thanks to pornography and a general growth of casualness, sex is no longer something only talked about behind closed doors. It has become a part of society, and as such a very hot topic of debate. It's not that hard to find out someone's stance on it anymore, as most people are quite open about their feelings on sex.

Personally, I view sex as more than just something you do with just anybody.

Then again, what would I know, seeing as how I've never gotten any myself, ne?

(Just like I don't know how to run a business, just like I know nothing about safe demoliton, just like I wouldn't know how to build a house, just like.....)

 

[Alias]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Sex makes me happy. Making my partner orgasm makes me happy. Making her feel good makes me happy. If sex is meaningless, a corollary to that is that happiness is meaningless.

Is happiness completely devoid of meaning to you, Goldstein?

 

[Goldstein]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Is happiness completely devoid of meaning to you, Goldstein?

Absolutely not. Happiness helps to ensure that you continue an activity. If I enjoy something, if I'm happy that I'm doing something or gain pleasure or enjoyment from that activity, I'll be more likely to continue that activity.

Additionally, I never intended to posit that sex is meaningless. I said that we get nothing of value from it, save children in certain circumstances. Value is defined here as either a material gain or a gain in knowledge. We gain nothing from sex that is of benefit to humanity or a society within humanity as a whole. (We could insert an argument here about the effects of sex on interpersonal relationships leading to those persons becoming more productive members of society, and if you want I'd be happy to go down that rabbit hole with you.)

I'll be honest, I was deliberately a bit inflammatory in my post. However, the basic point remains true. I don't understand why humanity focuses so much on sex, and I think it's a bit silly that we do.

I'm not asexual. I feel sexual attraction, desire, etc. I just think it's all somewhat silly. Certainly, I assume I'll have sex someday, but if I don't I would be alright with that.

I suppose you could say that I just don't get what all the fuss is about regarding sex, and therefore don't care. I might not say that, but you could.

I wouldn't ever actually advocate anything like widespread bans on sex or anything, regardless of what I said earlier. Other people certainly feel differently than I, and should be free to do so.

 

[Alias]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I don't understand why humanity focuses so much on sex

Because it makes people happy. That was my point. And because humans by nature will follow the path of least resistance, and picking up a sexual partner is pretty easy, we'll focus as much energy as we can toward that pursuit, because it's the easiest way toward happiness. You could argue that it's not true happiness, instant gratification and whatnot, but the point still stands; sex makes people happy, finding someone you enjoy having sex with is relatively easy, therefore people will spend time and energy pursuing that happiness.

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

It is strange that we're having an argument about the value of sex on this sort of forum... regardless.

Sex can be a form of stress relief as well. In that moment with your partner you can forget all the worries that plague your mind, and in the moments afterword.

Also, sex is also a fairly decent form of cardio, and also does good things for your body.

The emotional impact upon two partners is also something to strongly consider. Sure sex can really complicate things, but at the same time, between two people in a serious long term relationship, it is a way to become more intimate with your partner.

Abolishing orgasms is... silly. An orgasm is what causes the male to ejaculate and hence impregnate the woman. The fact that it feels good is a bonus.

Atop this, humans are not the only creatures to have sex for pleasure. Dolphins do as well, and they seem pretty well off.

 

[Pale]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Additionally, I never intended to posit that sex is meaningless. I said that we get nothing of value from it, save children in certain circumstances. Value is defined here as either a material gain or a gain in knowledge.

I'll take exception with that . Growth of the individual is a growth for society. Every individual who betters themselves betters society, if only in a small way.

And, because of the way we're built, having sex -is- bettering ourselves. When having sex for the first time, we're talking about learning, discovery, growth. It's a gain - however, you can attest that in the same way, so is everything.

Here's the catch. There's an undeniable sexual drive in most people. If not all. When this urge is kept satiated - that person is more productive, happy, better-looking - there are no downsides to it. This urge can be satisfied alone, or with other people.. But it's better with others.

This is because it addresses another fundamental human need. Contact. Did you know the chance of depression is inversely proportional to the number of hugs you receive each day? I.E, the more hugs you get, the happier you are? Humans are, generally, touchy-feely. We long for touch, it makes us happier, and happier = better, more productive, etc etc.

You might say that this is about addressing a need. So if there was no need in the first place, sex would be pointless. I.E, if we could eliminate our "lust", we wouldn't need to have sex except for procreation. There are problems with this too.

The sex drive isn't an isolated thing, in terms of psychological construction. Look at what happens to neutered cats. Sex drive has been linked again and again to ambition, to aggression, to the survival instinct. Freud may be now outdated, but he got some things right. One of the most powerful forces in our consciousness is the sex drive. Because it's not just about putting Tab A in Slot B (Or rubbing Slot B against Slot B, whatever..). It's linked to dominance, power, aggression.... and also, intimacy, contact, as I pointed out earlier.

So you can't just isolate and remove sex. In fact, to try and just make a conscious decision to remove it is probably doing more harm than good - both since you -can't- remove it completely, only stifle it, and, since it does more good than harm -anyway-.

P

 

[Alias]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Agree with all that.

But my chance of depression is directly proportionate. I hate being touched. The more hugs I get, the more depressed I get. =P

 

[Goldstein]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Sin: What better place to argue about sex than on a forum dedicated to sex?

Hmm, I'll agree with most of that, Pale. Sex can improve the disposition of members of society, and therefore make them more productive members of society. I don't know if that makes up for what sex consumes, though. I'd also probably argue about "Sex drive has been linked again and again to ambition, to aggression, to the survival instinct." In modern society, there really isn't any need for survival instinct et al left over from our evolution. We don't have to fight for survival, we don't have to hunt, and I'd argue that these leftover structures are outdated and useless today. I don't know how we could remove them, though.

And I'm more like Alias: I absolutely hate being touched, hugged, whatever.

Maybe it just comes down to that I believe the value of the time/effort/etc that one puts into an interpersonal relationship is never equal to or greater than what one gets out of the relationship, and therefore relationships are a waste of time and effort. Sex is just the most obvious and most common example of this. I guess I could've just said "I'm a misanthrope.' and saved you all this effort.

 

[Pale]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

You're not the only misanthrope.. I maintain a dedicated misanthropy to the extent of sociopathy . Incongruous with my opinions, ne?

What I mean is, these survival instincts... sex drive is linked to activity and creativity. In temperament, as well. Without it, we would probably all be more like ants.. completely happy with our lot, without ambition or drive towards competition.

As for relationships...I don't know. My own experience is rather limited. I just know, when a relationship is working, "putting in" doesn't involve a sacrifice. It's not like you have to devote your time to making the other person happy. It just means you have someone you're very close to. The only thing you put in is emotional investment.. The rest is negotiable.

I've always thought that a relationship shouldn't be "needed". There's an old story, that says, two people in love should be like two tall trees grown together. If one falls, it will take much of the other with it, but not all. They do not need one another to live. But both live happier with the other.

P

 

[Sinfulwolf]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Sin: What better place to argue about sex than on a forum dedicated to sex?

True, I just found it a little strange I suppose.

Regardless, you made no mention of the rest of my points.

 

[ToxicShock]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

However, I think we probably ought to address the fact that most men in modern society find it very difficult to see how they can possibly be attractive.

That is completely opposite of what most studies suggest. It's extremely common that when talking about their own attractiveness level, men are more likely to overestimate themselves and females more likely to underestimate themselves. He didn't suggest men were ugly, only that he was, bill mahr was, and one guy in a porn was, which, when it comes to the internet (which is the porn he talks about profusely) it's pretty common to have those slobbering fat dudes who just ruin it.

He even makes mention of fucking outside of class. So with that suggestion, it's not that he thinks guys are underclasses, just that he recognizes he is.

 

[Alias]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Kindred spirits! Pale, I'm much the same way. I avoid people whenever possible; if someone says Hi, I say hi and start walking away. I'd love to be an ass to everybody (like a certain TV show doctor) but it's better to attract less attention by going through the routines of politeness than scream 'look at me' by deliberately avoiding them. Other than that, I've had exactly one serious relationship, and the only reason it didn't end a long time ago is because I know I wouldn't be able to stand anybody else for longer than a couple weeks.

 

[Goldstein]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

I know, sin. I suppose I shouldn't have opened my... well, browser at all. I'll send you a PM later, and otherwise I'm going to just drop out of this.

 

[Pale]

Re: The Ranting/Debate Thread

Perhaps I was a little unclear.

What I mean to say is... I don't really think all of this applies to me. From an intellectual point of view, to consider the general question "Importance of Sex".. well, you've seen my answers.

For me, sex is absolutely nothing, unless it's with the person I adore. Then it's everything. But... anything could be. Washing the dishes with the same person is just as important.

As for hating being touched, well... that's me, through and through. There are about six people I like to hug, and I hug them a -lot-. Anyone else is going to get a frosty reception, or broken bones. True story. Black belt aikido .

As for my one serious relationship, it was going fine.. then was ended by events beyond either of our control. Which was a shame. I think that one would have lasted.

Edit : And I don't know what I did to scare Goldstein off, but clearly, it was scary.

P